Smokers Tossed Out Of [SF]GAm

[The Interpreter]

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/news/kadner/...7Kadner.article

[Browntggrr]

Does the punishment fit the crime?

Beginning of the day, haven't been on a ride yet, and they were already tossed from the park.

It is nice to see that a park is enforcing the rules, but tossing out a family for a minor infraction seems a bit extreme.

Smoking in the queue lines is one thing, smoking on the midway is something else.

[The Interpreter]

Yep. One chain appears to not do ANYthing to enforce the smoking rules, the other seems to be going wildly overboard. Neither approach seems particularly wise, to be kind.

[Gordon Bombay]

At first before I had read the article I thought "I bet the smokers are exaggerating and were unruly or something" turns out that really is the policy. No strikes, no tolerance, light up and your out... Glad to see a more firm stance on the policy but maybe this is a little too extreme? I personally don't smoke but often attend KI with people who do and who always go out of their way to get to the designated areas and do see a lot of people using them more than I used to.

[WHODEY2007]

The smoking policy is very hard to enforce. Some people do not take the time to read the maps that say that there are designated smoking areas. When there is tens of thousands of people at the park and just a handfull of security, the smokers are less likely to be seen out of the designated smoking area. Also, it is even harder at night because you can only smell it or see the red tip and some people are very good at hiding that.

If you are going to enforce that rule they should put some big sign by the front gate to let people know of the rule change. I think this is a PR nightmare.

[The Interpreter]

Indeed. Meanwhile, at Cedar Fair parks, I have seen Mr. Kinzel, Mr. Falfas and park general managers cruise right on by people smoking in queue lines, on the midways, etc. As I said before, one chain goes overboard in enforcing its smoking rules, the other apparently doesn't make it even a minor priority.

[Browntggrr]

And even a sign out front, no matter how big, really is not always noticed by guests. Some guests are just so excited to be at the park, all they want to do is get in and have a good time. This often times makes them oblivious to things around them.

I would think that if a park really wanted to enforce it where a guest has absolutely no excuse is to personally hand the guest a notice of the enforced rules either at the toll booths for parking or while entering the park.

Sure it may cost extra to staff, but from a PR standpoint I would think that it is worth the money.

[Dalefan]

This is why Six Flags cant get anyone to come to the parks. This can go to the State AG's office the park is in and the park can get fined for this. The rules have to be clearly posted in order to enfore the law like kicking people out of the park. And the park has to by law inform the smoker of the rule and ask them first before going that far. Besides Six Flags cant go around making up stuff cause it has bit them very hard before. The law in Ohio states that if a smoker is told to stop smoking in a non smoking area then doesnt after being told then they can get fined or in trouble. Six Flags never told them once before kicked them out. If Six Flags doesnt shape up then they will end up going out of biz.

[Browntggrr]

This is why Six Flags cant get anyone to come to the parks. This can go to the State AG's office the park is in and the park can get fined for this.

The park cannot get fined for this.

It is private property, not public.

SF can make any rules they wany, weather we agree with them or not.

And it also would not go to the Attorney General's office either, but rather civil court.

[ohhs02highlander]

This is why Six Flags cant get anyone to come to the parks. This can go to the State AG's office the park is in and the park can get fined for this. The rules have to be clearly posted in order to enfore the law like kicking people out of the park. And the park has to by law inform the smoker of the rule and ask them first before going that far. Besides Six Flags cant go around making up stuff cause it has bit them very hard before. The law in Ohio states that if a smoker is told to stop smoking in a non smoking area then doesnt after being told then they can get fined or in trouble. Six Flags never told them once before kicked them out. If Six Flags doesnt shape up then they will end up going out of biz.

remember it's private property they can kick out whomever they want for whatever reason they want to...it's not a public property

[BavarianBeatle]

Kicking people out!? You have GOT to be KIDDING!!!! The single most ridiculous policy in theme park history!!!!!!! How much money would those people have spent at their park that day? And where are they going to go the next time they have money to spend at a park? And what are they going to tell their friends and family? And what are those people going to tell their friends and family and so on and so on....... And when all of those people have money to spend, are they going to deal with the SF Nazis or spend their money elsewhere? JUST STUPID!!!!!!!!

[Dalefan]

This is why Six Flags cant get anyone to come to the parks. This can go to the State AG's office the park is in and the park can get fined for this. The rules have to be clearly posted in order to enfore the law like kicking people out of the park. And the park has to by law inform the smoker of the rule and ask them first before going that far. Besides Six Flags cant go around making up stuff cause it has bit them very hard before. The law in Ohio states that if a smoker is told to stop smoking in a non smoking area then doesnt after being told then they can get fined or in trouble. Six Flags never told them once before kicked them out. If Six Flags doesnt shape up then they will end up going out of biz.

remember it's private property they can kick out whomever they want for whatever reason they want to...it's not a public property

Just remember one thing, Six Flags cant afford anymore bad stuff happening to them. They aready have a case in court which could cost them millions. And it might be private but they still can be took to court over the stuff they are pulling. Next thing you know they will ban beer at all Six Flags parks.

[Browntggrr]

^ Which is the EXACT reason that companies that deal with people bringing frivoulous lawsuits againts them have insurance companies as well as lawfirms on the payroll.

For them to actually lose millions of dollars, first they would have to be found guilty of some type of neglegence and second, it would not be covered by their insurance company.

And for a guest to actually take SF to the civil level, that would mean that SF is found responsible for somehow harming the guest, their reputation, or their pocketbook. Now it is going to take money for court fees as well as attorney fees. Sure, you could act as your own council, but then the SF attorney would eat your lunch for you.

Bottom line- the most these people could look for is their admission fee since they were not even in the park for an hour.

Lawsuits and threats of lawsuits like this are the reason why there needs to be some type of punishment/ fee for those who bring up frivoulous crap up like this. It clogs up the system. Start charging the claimant the attorney fees that the defendant has incurred if found to be frivolous and this garbage will stop.

[Cody]

Actully more drama is cause when someone lights a cig and the person behind them will uselly tell them to put it out. I think its better for them to be put out of the park before they cause too much drama. Also there really is no reason to smoke at a theme park, You go there to have a good time and ride rollercoasters and spend time with family. Theres NO reason to smoke. What does it do? Kills you from the inside out.

[Browntggrr]

Actully more drama is cause when someone lights a cig and the person behind them will uselly tell them to put it out.

But this incident has nothing to do with smoking in line, but rather smoking on the midway in an unspecified area.

I do consider smoking in line and smoking on the midway two different issues.

[Cody]

Hmm well How many miles up is the atomsphere? Now how low to the ground are cars? doesn't matter; smoke travels! it doesn't disapear in thin air. Wanna know how many americans get lung cancer from second hand smoke?

[Browntggrr]

Hmm well How many miles up is the atomsphere? Now how low to the ground are cars? doesn't matter; smoke travels! it doesn't disapear in thin air. Wanna know how many americans get lung cancer from second hand smoke?

Actually it does disappear in the air.

Just like water coloring that is added to clear water. The more water added, the less the color can be seen. The more open in the air you are, the less likely you will be able to smell a cigarette.

[Cody]

And Just how many people in america do smoke? ALOT so can you say alot of air is coverd?

[Gordon Bombay]

They aready have a case in court which could cost them millions. And it might be private but they still can be took to court over the stuff they are pulling. Next thing you know they will ban beer at all Six Flags parks.

As I find myself asking you many times; Exactly what case is that?

[Browntggrr]

And Just how many people in america do smoke? ALOT so can you say alot of air is coverd?

Huh?

Are you trying to say that there is more smoke in the air than there is fresh air?

[Browntggrr]

They aready have a case in court which could cost them millions. And it might be private but they still can be took to court over the stuff they are pulling. Next thing you know they will ban beer at all Six Flags parks.

As I find myself asking you many times; Exactly what case is that?

I am going to assume the SFKK incident.

Which would be covered by SF insurance.

[The Interpreter]

This is why Six Flags cant get anyone to come to the parks. This can go to the State AG's office the park is in and the park can get fined for this. The rules have to be clearly posted in order to enfore the law like kicking people out of the park. And the park has to by law inform the smoker of the rule and ask them first before going that far. Besides Six Flags cant go around making up stuff cause it has bit them very hard before. The law in Ohio states that if a smoker is told to stop smoking in a non smoking area then doesnt after being told then they can get fined or in trouble. Six Flags never told them once before kicked them out. If Six Flags doesnt shape up then they will end up going out of biz.

a. Admissions and per caps are UP at Six Flags. Quite a bit, actually. So where do you get your idea that Six Flags can't get anyone to go to their parks? If that WERE the case, who was in the park to be tossed out, since NO ONE goes?

b. What law IN ILLINOIS, please, says a smoker must be informed to put out his/her cigarette before being asked to leave private property? Specifically, please. Besides, Six Flags Great America wasn't enforcing a law, but rather their own policy. If a law were being enforced, there probably would have been a citation and/or arrest, and charges filed. There was no mention of any of that, but rather that the patron was ejected from the park. As in asked to leave the privately owned property of Six Flags.

c. Six Flags CAN go around making up stuff on their own property. They own the property, they set the rules. As long as they don't discriminate under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, provide a safe and healthy environment (gee, what is a non-smoking policy for), and comply with other Federal, state and local laws, they are free to designate whatever conduct rules they wish.

d. The law in Ohio has nothing to do with this at all. State laws can and do vary widely. If I were seeking legal advice in Illinois, I'd seek out a competent attorney in that jurisdiction. I sure wouldn't start assuming that because something is the rule in Ohio it is the law in Illinois. Hint: Cedar Point and Six Flags Great America operate under very, very different legal landscapes.

[BoddaH1994]

b. What law IN ILLINOIS, please, says a smoker must be informed to put out his/her cigarette before being asked to leave private property? Specifically, please. Besides, Six Flags Great America wasn't enforcing a law, but rather their own policy. If a law were being enforced, there probably would have been a citation and/or arrest, and charges filed. There was no mention of any of that, but rather that the patron was ejected from the park. As in asked to leave the privately owned property of Six Flags.

I really doubt that if they could prove that either they were never informed of the rule or that they were singled out that they could fight it. Of course Six Flags can do what they please on the property, but it's also a business and they are held to certain standards. I work for Best Buy and they get sued all the time over the return policy (as I'm sure every retailer does) despite the fact that it's on a big board behind customer service and also printed on the back of the receipts.

[The Interpreter]

Anybody can be sued by anybody for anything. Succeeding is another story.

Do I think this smoking policy at Six Flags and its reported enforcement is wise? No. But someone thrown out of the park under the policy who went to the Illinois State Attorney General's Office would most likely get a polite "Go see an attorney" response. Nothing more. Illinois state taxpayers' funds are not going to be used to fight what is, at most, a private matter.

[BoddaH1994]

You're right, but winning a lawsuit isn't necessarily the only way to get revenge. This article shows it itself. Had the author admitted that he or she ignored warnings, it would have been one thing but they made a backlash in a very public manor making themselves the good guy and big bad GAm the bad guy.

[WHODEY2007]

This is why Six Flags cant get anyone to come to the parks. This can go to the State AG's office the park is in and the park can get fined for this. The rules have to be clearly posted in order to enfore the law like kicking people out of the park. And the park has to by law inform the smoker of the rule and ask them first before going that far. Besides Six Flags cant go around making up stuff cause it has bit them very hard before. The law in Ohio states that if a smoker is told to stop smoking in a non smoking area then doesnt after being told then they can get fined or in trouble. Six Flags never told them once before kicked them out. If Six Flags doesnt shape up then they will end up going out of biz.

a. Admissions and per caps are UP at Six Flags. Quite a bit, actually. So where do you get your idea that Six Flags can't get anyone to go to their parks? If that WERE the case, who was in the park to be tossed out, since NO ONE goes?

b. What law IN ILLINOIS, please, says a smoker must be informed to put out his/her cigarette before being asked to leave? Specifically, please. Besides, Six Flags Great America wasn't enforcing a law, but rather their own policy. If a law were being enforced, there probably would have been a citation and/or arrest, and charges filed. There was no mention of any of that, but rather that the patron was ejected from the park. As in asked to leave the privately owned property of Six Flags.

c. Six Flags CAN go around making up stuff on their own property. They own the property, they set the rules. As long as they don't discriminate under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, provide a safe and healthy environment (gee, what is a non-smoking policy for), and comply with other Federal, state and local laws, they are free to designate whatever conduct rules they wish.

d. The law in Ohio has nothing to do with this at all. State laws can and do vary widely. If I were seeking legal advice in Illinois, I'd seek out a competent attorney in that jurisdiction. I sure wouldn't start assuming that because something is the rule in Ohio it is the law in Illinois. Hint: Cedar Point and Six Flags Great America operate under very, very different legal landscapes.

Interpreter, thank you so much for setting the record straight. I, myself was working on it when you posted it. I have 8 years of experience in the legal system (and not in a bad way), and this was complete craziness.

SF is really digging themselves a hole with this incident. You want all people to be able to come enjoy the park, smoker or non-smoker. That is why they have the designated area. I am not a smoker but I kind of feel bad for the people who were kicked out of the park for that. I wonder if smoking gets to the point where you just subconsciously light up and not really realize your surrounding. A warning does usually suffice. If seen again smoking in complete disregard of the rules that have been verbally stated, then I agree that the person should lose park privileges for the day.

On the other hand, I don't know if subconscious smoking is a fair defense either. You are at a place where there is thousands of other people (especially children) that do not smoke and lighting up in an area that you are not supposed to can be seen as extremely rude. Even further, I have seen smokers, in a non-designated area, get told to quit smoking and then make a big scene over it. Why do this? The smoker was in the wrong.

With the case in point, I would like to know further information of how their park has the smoking rules displayed. I have no personal experience at the park in question and don't think it is fair for me to make my final judgement on this incident without further investigation of the facts.

[MarketingExpress]

This is a very touchy subject for some, and others don't care. Smoking has always been a controversial topic at amusement parks. Should it be allowed, if so, everywhere or just designated areas? The Interpreter nailed it on the head when he said that SFGAM and KI are 2 opposite extremes here. On one hand you have SF who is obviously very strict on ejecting people who smoke, even without warning. On the other you have KI, who used to be very lakidasical when it came to enforcing the smoking in designated areas. I am sure that the new smoking ban law in Ohio has helped cut down on this a lot, but I am sure there is the occasional rebel or out of towner who is unaware of the new law.

As WhoDey2007 said, I would also like to see what kind of warnings were posted about the new smoking policy that was developed at this park. For some reason all of the line jumping signs at KI are popping into my mind right now. These signs are posted at every ride, in the map, and just about everywhere to the point that they are obnoxious. But let's face it, most of us can recite the writing on them from memory. If SF had just as many signs explaining the smoking policy, they can probably get away with this policy. We shall see if anything comes about in the form of a lawsuit being filed.

[WooferBearATL]

I'm not certain why the man was not just publicly executed.

I'm thinking that being kicked out was letting this man off way too easily.

[BoddaH1994]

Interpreter, thank you so much for setting the record straight. I, myself was working on it when you posted it. I have 8 years of experience in the legal system (and not in a bad way), and this was complete craziness.

I'm glad you cleared the up. I must admit that when I read the first few words, I was thinking ex-con.

On the other hand, I don't know if subconscious smoking is a fair defense either. You are at a place where there is thousands of other people (especially children) that do not smoke and lighting up in an area that you are not supposed to can be seen as extremely rude. Even further, I have seen smokers, in a non-designated area, get told to quit smoking and then make a big scene over it. Why do this? The smoker was in the wrong.

I also think it's rude when non-smokers go to the smoking sections and just sit there on the benches while smokers are forced to stand. If you expect a smoker to respect a non-smoker's space, it has to go both ways. Any takers?

As WhoDey2007 said, I would also like to see what kind of warnings were posted about the new smoking policy that was developed at this park. For some reason all of the line jumping signs at KI are popping into my mind right now. These signs are posted at every ride, in the map, and just about everywhere to the point that they are obnoxious. But let's face it, most of us can recite the writing on them from memory. If SF had just as many signs explaining the smoking policy, they can probably get away with this policy. We shall see if anything comes about in the form of a lawsuit being filed.

If there are any communications grad students out there, I think a good thesus would be how ineffective signs really are on society. Same goes for Halloween Haunt. It seems like people either don't see them, don't believe them, or ignore them.

I'm not certain why the man was not just publicly executed.

I'm thinking that being kicked out was letting this man off way too easily.

Why does the phrase, "Don't tase me, bro!!" come to mind? ha ha

[DeLorean Rider]

I personally think that the only park that has their smoking situation under control is Holiday World. those of you who have been there have probably seen the large banners on EVERY light pole that say:

Holiday World Now Smoke Free!

Not to mention that their smoking areas are very clearly marked, and nicer than just a corner wtih some smoking boxes.