Trim Brakes

[The Beast Rider]

Did the SOB accident make Cedar Fair shy about letting their coasters run, or are they really just trim brake happy? They have trims all over The Beast to kill the ride, and stop FOF completely halfway through. Then, they have an almost complete stop on SOB and Vortex, and to top it off, they have some pointless ones on Racer and Beastie for goodness sake. I just got back from Coastermania at Cedar Point, and low and behold, there are trims all over those coasters now too. Mean Streak has several which take any fun that is left in there out, and then there is the one on Magnum. Don't forget about the one on Mantis and the midcourse on Raptor, and now poor Gemini has not one but two, and boy does the second one sure kill the ending. Also, new for 2008, a fancy new trim on Maverick. That makes an interesting sequence: into the tunnel, slam on the brakes, launch out of the tunnel, directly into the trim brake. They really need to take a lesson from Holiday World. They are not using the trim on Voyage this year at all, and Legend and Raven don't have any to be found. In fact, from seat of pants feel, the Raven runs faster than The Beast does.

[MarketingExpress]

The SOB incident (if we are thinking of the same one) had nothing to do with brakes at all.

[DeLorean Rider]

Oh boy. I dont think there are many topics with more answers on this board.

[The Beast Rider]

Oh boy. I dont think there are many topics with more answers on this board.

Well, I'm not really interested in the SOB accident, most everyone knows how that turned out by now. I threw that in there because I was reading some of the other SOB posts and it got me wondering if maybe that is why they slow all the coasters to a crawl with trim brakes at every turn.

[KIBeast]

Let me start by saying that all of the brakes on any KI coaster were pre-Cedar Fair and perhaps some pre-Paramount. Also, Cedar Point hasn't added any new brakes on their coasters recently that I know of either. They have been there for quite some time. How any of that could be related to the SOB accident is way beyond me.

Let me also say that some of the brakes are necessary. Talking Mid Course Brake Runs (MCBR's), they help break the coaster up into sections so that no trains collide with each other.

[MrPostman]

whats the point of touting speed if you are going to kill it. Let them run. whats next "New for 09!! TTD trimmed to a 45 MPH descent." yay.

[thejoker8388]

Actually, a 45 mph decent on TTD would make the ride much better in my opinion. It would make the ride twice as long and can you imagine how freaky it would be to go down over 400 vertical feet at only 45 mph, sounds like a great idea to me.

[The Beast Rider]

whats the point of touting speed if you are going to kill it. Let them run. whats next "New for 09!! TTD trimmed to a 45 MPH descent." yay.

Exactly!! They tout the speed of The Beast as approaching 70 MPH on their website. I would really like to see that. I guess 50 is approaching 70 in someone's twisted view. There are times especially early in the day when you begin to wonder if the train is going to valley in the tunnel it goes so slow.

[Pagoda Gift Shop]

Yeah, but it's always going pretty darn fast when it hits the 2 turns before Lift 2. I guess I don't understand why people get mad about trims so much. Very rarely are they added to do anything more than protect the rider from extreme forces.

The Beast for one, would be quite painful without any trims.

[The Interpreter]

Well, that and to reduce maintenance expenses to an affordable and reasonable level...

[MarketingExpress]

Exactly!! They tout the speed of The Beast as approaching 70 MPH on their website. I would really like to see that. I guess 50 is approaching 70 in someone's twisted view. There are times especially early in the day when you begin to wonder if the train is going to valley in the tunnel it goes so slow.

What proof do you have that it is only traveling 50 instead of the speed that they have on the website? Have you sat on every inch of the track with a lazer or radar gun and clocked the train as it goes by? How can you tell that you are going 50 while riding and not 65 or 70?

[Coasterkidman]

The train actually travels very fast. I find it hard to not realize how darn fast you're going, for most of the ride is very low to the ground and the multiple trees provide exellent points of reference. And the trims make The Beast more enjoyable because without them it would be a painful ride. I rode The Beast the last time I went, and they didn't have the trims on all the way, so it ended up giving me a back jaring ride because of the extremely high lateral g's provided on the last 2 turns before the 2nd lift.

[The Interpreter]

Uh, as has been mentioned here before, the trims are not adjustable on Beast without manually removing them....I doubt that "they didn't have the trims on all the way, so it ended up giving me a back jaring ride because of the extremely high lateral g's provided on the last 2 turns before the 2nd lift." It may have been the train was not loaded to the same extent as usual, but the trims were probably just as they were the day before, the day after, and the next week after your visit.

[MarketingExpress]

The train actually travels very fast. I find it hard to not realize how darn fast you're going, for most of the ride is very low to the ground and the multiple trees provide exellent points of reference.

I can understand someone saying Beast was running a little slow today, but to say that it was going 20 mph less than what is listed as a normal operating speed is a big difference. I was just trying to figure out what the accuser is basing their information on.

I am sure DeLorean Rider, as a former supervisor of The Beast, can enlighten us on this topic.

[KIBeast]

^Coach Bombay would know something as well about how fast The Beast travels.

[DeLorean Rider]

I have seen the speeds of the train up to 70 before. I have also seen early first empty train in the morning where the train has maxed at about 40. These speeds are at the bottoms of the first and second hill; typically both speeds are relatively the same. One particular time the train left the brake shed at 7mph. Other times I have seen the train leave the brake shed at as high as 32mph.

I apologize; I have been at the DeLorean Car Show in Gettysburg, PA since thursday and just got home tonight. 156 cars there and I placed second in class .

EDIT: I also recieved the award for the greasiest hands at the show, lol. Oddly enough, it was not because I was working on my car but on others cars.

[Gordon Bombay]

Congrats Nick!

[BavarianBeatle]

Congrats as well!! I have also, for a long time, noticed that The Beast is inconsistent, especially through the brake shed. Sometimes you get slowed so hard you get slammed forward, others you hardly notice the braking at all. Same with the trim in the helix. We rode it last week, and the helix was as fast as I've experienced in a long time... I'm not an engineer, but from what I understand, it has to do with the temperature of the lubricant of the train's wheels. Like the grease in a car's suspension, it must be heated to a certain temperature to work to maximum efficiency..

[dare-to-fly]

Let me start by saying that all of the brakes on any KI coaster were pre-Cedar Fair and perhaps some pre-Paramount. Also, Cedar Point hasn't added any new brakes on their coasters recently that I know of either. They have been there for quite some time. How any of that could be related to the SOB accident is way beyond me.

Let me also say that some of the brakes are necessary. Talking Mid Course Brake Runs (MCBR's), they help break the coaster up into sections so that no trains collide with each other.

Perhaps the brakes are pre-Cedar Fair. I'm in doubt as to whether the strength is as well. Example: I do not remember the mid-course brake on Flight of Fear ever stopping you before Cedar Fair took over, but rather more like a typical mid-course brake. There is no way you can doubt that the strength of the Son of Beast brake was turned up after loop removal, which is again post-Cedar Fair. This completely screws up the second half of the ride...but at least there's the first half.

The Beast has seemed more sluggish for the past couple of seasons also. I've heard the spiel so many times...they didn't add any more...blah, blah, blah. (BTW, the video of The Beast testing back in 1979 that is now readily accessible on You Tube shows NO brakes on the helix, so there went that arguement.) Either way, this isn't the point. The point is the strength to which the brakes have been dialed up. Most times than not, if you find a Beast enthusiast, the first thing they complain about is how much they brake it these days. On any coaster, I will never understand the point of building a big tall hill and then slowing it down on the way to the bottom...duh...does that make a shred of sense? That one must leave. The Beast has no airhills (or even potential ones) except for the second hill, which is trimmed as well. This sends the ranking to the toilet for me, and it could be such a world-class coaster. (And is, really anyway.) I could live with the mid-course (at its current strength at max) if they would get rid of the others. I cannot see why in the world it would make that much difference maintenance-wise to a park of KI's caliber just to ditch those trims. If they leave the one in the brake shed, that will slow it enough to not get your back broken on the back curves. And pointedly, if you want to ride a slow-moving smooth coaster, ride The Beastie (which also has a completely pointless non-original trim). If you want to run with the big boys, expect big boy forces.

Also, Cedar Point hasn't added any new brakes on their coasters recently that I know of either. They have been there for quite some time.

Not true. Maverick did not have a magnetic brake just out of the tunnel during last season.

Also, this is the first season I have ever seen Gemini reduced to a crawl before its spectacular final helix.

Mantis' trim brake on the first drop has not been there for long. I think that appeared last season.

Mean Streak's trims were cranked up more last season as well.

The others...you're probably right.

How any of that could be related to the SOB accident is way beyond me.

Meaning, does the snapping of a vertical timber have anything to do with CF's nerve in letting coasters live to the fullest. Similarly how Magnum's accident from last year influenced the policy to close for the slightest sprinkle. (Or I'm told that's the reason.) Either way, it's a little on the dumb side, though I wouldn't be as upset if they didn't wait until the pavement was dry before re-opening.

Let me also say that some of the brakes are necessary. Talking Mid Course Brake Runs (MCBR's), they help break the coaster up into sections so that no trains collide with each other.

Yes I quite agree with you as long as they are kept in the off position unless needed, which is NOT the way any coaster I've ridden belonging to Cedar Fair operates. That IS however the way Voyage is running this year. (And just look at its intensity factor! You note it's #1 on the planet! Apparently not everyone is turned on by a slow running ride that plods and crawls around the track!) Also, the mid-course brake defense only works if they run enough trains to use it. I know of no coaster at KI besides Vortex that meets that requirement (unless you coun't Backlot, but it's designed differently). (Don't even try to use SOB and Beast as back up. Neither is equipped at this point to serve such a purpose. Beast does not crest the 1st lift until there are no trains on the first part of track or lift hill #2, and SOB only runs two trains. Note the kicker tires have also been removed from both.)

As a final thought, I would like to respectfully disagree with any statement that trim brakes make the ride better. I quite agree with what was said by someone at the Coastermania question and answer session. "Can we get the brakes off The Beast and return it to its former glory?"

[Gordon Bombay]

Let me start by saying that all of the brakes on any KI coaster were pre-Cedar Fair and perhaps some pre-Paramount. Also, Cedar Point hasn't added any new brakes on their coasters recently that I know of either. They have been there for quite some time. How any of that could be related to the SOB accident is way beyond me.

Let me also say that some of the brakes are necessary. Talking Mid Course Brake Runs (MCBR's), they help break the coaster up into sections so that no trains collide with each other.

Perhaps the brakes are pre-Cedar Fair. I'm in doubt as to whether the strength is as well. Example: I do not remember the mid-course brake on Flight of Fear ever stopping you before Cedar Fair took over, but rather more like a typical mid-course brake. There is no way you can doubt that the strength of the Son of Beast brake was turned up after loop removal, which is again post-Cedar Fair. This completely screws up the second half of the ride...but at least there's the first half.

The Beast has seemed more sluggish for the past couple of seasons also. I've heard the spiel so many times...they didn't add any more...blah, blah, blah. (BTW, the video of The Beast testing back in 1979 that is now readily accessible on You Tube shows NO brakes on the helix, so there went that arguement.)

I'm not sure which exact video you are talking about but I can guarantee you that The Beast opened in 1979 with the old skid brakes on the drop leading into the "double helix." These were the same type of skid brakes that were once featured on the first drop, the "brake line" (mid course brake run), and the hill before the right hand turn into the MCBR. To adjust these types of brakes, weights were added to the counterweight. On many backstage tours it has been pointed out that the apparatus' for the old skid brakes still remain under the newer magnetic trim brakes. In this video ( a 1980 advertisement that uses b-roll footage from 1979) shows the skid brakes very briefly at 14 seconds into the video, just as the train nears the double helix:

Either way, this isn't the point. The point is the strength to which the brakes have been dialed up.

I'm not sure what you mean by "dialed up," but the only way to increase the strength of the magnetic trim brakes is to add or remove a section of them, they can not be altered throughout the day or by any mechanical device by the ride crew or maintenance crews, they must be physically removed or added to adjust the amount of braking. How much they brake the trains depends on many factors such as season and temperature, however with the new magnetic brakes The Beast still runs at around the same speeds it always has, however the braking just occurs much more abruptly with the newer magnetic trims.

Most times than not, if you find a Beast enthusiast, the first thing they complain about is how much they brake it these days. On any coaster, I will never understand the point of building a big tall hill and then slowing it down on the way to the bottom...duh...does that make a shred of sense?

Most of the times the reasons coasters are built with or given trim brakes is to control wear, tear, and maintenance issues. By running the ride in a consistent manner, this leads to more uptime, which leads to a great ride and happy guests.

That one must leave. The Beast has no airhills (or even potential ones) except for the second hill, which is trimmed as well. This sends the ranking to the toilet for me, and it could be such a world-class coaster. (And is, really anyway.)

I'd have to disagree with you on that one, this year the ride has been running great. Ride towards the back and on the second hill before you enter the MCBR you will notice a nice little pop of airtime. Regardless, I don't think a coaster needs to have air time to be good. The Beast is a wonderful terrain coaster, and I would never trade a night ride on it for anything any other park has to offer.

I could live with the mid-course (at its current strength at max) if they would get rid of the others. I cannot see why in the world it would make that much difference maintenance-wise to a park of KI's caliber just to ditch those trims. If they leave the one in the brake shed, that will slow it enough to not get your back broken on the back curves.

The trims exist to keep the trains running in a consistent manner. The supports, trusses, wheels, chassis, and all the other major components of the coaster are built to withstand certain forces, triming the ride to make sure the coaster consistently withstands acceptable forces keeps down on wear and tear.

As a final thought, I would like to respectfully disagree with any statement that trim brakes make the ride better. I quite agree with what was said by someone at the Coastermania question and answer session. "Can we get the brakes off The Beast and return it to its former glory?"

Trim brakes keep the ride running in a reliable manner, while the trims of today are way more abrupt and consistent than those of yesteryear, the ride still runs at the same speeds, provides a great experience, and is a great ride. Trim brakes may ruin the experience elsewhere, however, The Beast is still a legendary ride.

[dare-to-fly]

# the quotes--I'm being lazy.

1. There are none in the testing video, though it's very possible that it was added before the coaster officially opened, I agree.

2. I dispute anyone saying that it runs at the same speeds it always has. I can't prove it, but you can't take my opinion. I'm not talking about within season changes either, but from year to year, meaning it's more than possible to add and/or remove (right?) a section of trims.

3. Why not lessen the expense altogether and build a shorter coaster and not have trims? Duh!

4. I DO ride toward the back, and after a few hours when it actually gets warmed up, there is a small pop of airtime if you're in the right train. BUT...this could be SUCH a GREAT airhill if they would let it live. A small pop of airtime would satisfy me if that's all it could do, but...it's not! As for whether or not there's airtime--that's an opinion. You have yours, I have mine, they are very different. My favorite in the park is Racer...why...it has the most air in the park. (Don't even bring up Vortex, there's only one hill that produces air. On a really good ride, Racer can produce airtime on every hill on the course.)

5. Didn't we already establish that The Beast was not running consistently? If trims are there to produce consistency, it seems odd that 40-70 is the range. That's some range!

6. Correction. The Beast is a legendary ride that could live up to its name if only... Don't get me wrong, I love The Beast. However I just can't help imagine what it could do if the park would let it. But we wouldn't want maintenance to have to maintain something, would we?

[Gordon Bombay]

# the quotes--I'm being lazy.

1. There are none in the testing video, though it's very possible that it was added before the coaster officially opened, I agree.

How about a link to the testing video, not sure which one you are talking about.

2. I dispute anyone saying that it runs at the same speeds it always has. I can't prove it, but you can't take my opinion. I'm not talking about within season changes either, but from year to year, meaning it's more than possible to add and/or remove (right?) a section of trims.

I can guarantee its average speed is no slower than how it used to be.

3. Why not lessen the expense altogether and build a shorter coaster and not have trims? Duh!

That would be something to ask the designers, but with more and more adding trims to their newer coasters each year it seems to be that they have good purpose and can still allow excellent rides. See: Behemoth and Goliath (SFOG)

4. I DO ride toward the back, and after a few hours when it actually gets warmed up, there is a small pop of airtime if you're in the right train. BUT...this could be SUCH a GREAT airhill if they would let it live. A small pop of airtime would satisfy me if that's all it could do, but...it's not! As for whether or not there's airtime--that's an opinion. You have yours, I have mine, they are very different. My favorite in the park is Racer...why...it has the most air in the park. (Don't even bring up Vortex, there's only one hill that produces air. On a really good ride, Racer can produce airtime on every hill on the course.)

Agreed, thats an opinion, but obviously airtime is not always cause for a great rides, Beast seems to do fine on its own without it.

5. Didn't we already establish that The Beast was not running consistently? If trims are there to produce consistency, it seems odd that 40-70 is the range. That's some range!

Did we? I don't think so. DeloreanRider mentioned that in his years operating it he had seen extreme circumstances in various cases, yet the ride typically runs in a consistent manner at an average speed.

6. Correction. The Beast is a legendary ride that could live up to its name if only... Don't get me wrong, I love The Beast. However I just can't help imagine what it could do if the park would let it. But we wouldn't want maintenance to have to maintain something, would we?

Actually, I think the millions of rides it gives a year prove that it is a fantastic ride with a broad appeal to many coaster riders, not just enthusiasts. Sure it may not be your cup of tea, but plenty of others sure seem to enjoy it. As far as maintenance maintaining it, they do quite a fantastic job. KI's wood coaster team is a marvelous team (ride Red Racer and feel the excellent track work for yourself.) They do a great job on all the coasters throughout the year.

[BavarianBeatle]

The trims on The Beast have been repositioned. On that second hill, the skid brakes were on the upside of the hill. Now the trims are at the crest. You used to get great airtime in the back as the train left those trims and the back got pulled over the top of that hill. The trims before the double helix, as I recall, used to be right at the top of the drop into the helix. You started at a crawl and sped up as you fell. Now you speed up, hit the trims, then speed up again.

[Gordon Bombay]

Yep, the magnetic brakes are much shorter than the old skid brakes. They perform the task much more quickly and abruptly. The skid brakes used to run nearly the full extent of the second drop, first drop, and as bavarian beetle pointed out: "the upside of the second hill."

[dare-to-fly]

I never said it wasn't "my cup of tea," but rather I'm pointing out how much more spectacular it could be. From the sound of it, I would be less aggravated if the brakes hadn't been re-positioned.

As for Red Racer, I'm very pleased with the trackwork. I'm very fond of Racer and glad to see it given some needed TLC. The problem I have with the maintenance dept. is certainly not the smoothness of the coasters at all. In fact, they are commended for the smoothness of the majority of the coasters. It is the tendancy to use trims as a substitute for good maintenance (or at least as a form of budget cut) with which I have a problem. Most parks have no where near the trims or trim strength as KI, with Cedar Point now a definite exception. I cannot understand it or justify it.

Now that we seem to be done with our little disagreement, I have got to get to bed if I'm going to get up in time to visit said coaster for the walkback in the morning to max out at 40 because of trims...again. Though at least he warms up after a few trips around. I do have to admit, he's usually moving pretty well by mid afternoon. It just kills me to imagine what he could do without the brakes. Oh, well. Trims will be trims.

And for future reference for those of you that argue as to how we know how fast The Beast or any coaster is moving without a radar gun, it's not that hard to guage speed on a coaster +/- 10 mph. In my mind all I have to do is compare the speeds of Raven and Voyage. Raven travels at nearly 60 by the sign, and Voyage 70. I can guage pretty well IMO based on the differences in coasters. Can I prove that, not really, but can you prove otherwise? I think not!

[BavarianBeatle]

And there were no seat dividers, head rests, or seat belts. To those who are too young to rember that era, imagine riding The Beast (and Racer) with the bars like those on Fairly Odd Coaster, on a well-padded "bench seat" with no other restraints at all....... Those of us who are older did that many times....... Needless to say, the ride experience was significantly different than it is now!!!

[The Interpreter]

And perhaps most importantly of all, there was no rock hard high density urethane foam. That change is the one I decry the most.

As for brakes, it really doesn't matter what daretofly can "live with." The park, Cedar Fair and its insurance carriers and ride manufacturers are going to recommend and do what they are going to do...whether dare-to-fly or others of his ilk like it or not. And there are many, many reasons for that, from debt levels to maintenance requirements to potential liability reasons to ride comfort to even guest complaints. It is what it is, and no amount of complaining or suggestions from enthusiasts is likely to change it. That may sound harsh, but its reality. Have input? Sure. Change things? Very, very doubtful.

[dare-to-fly]

And perhaps most importantly of all, there was no rock hard high density urethane foam. That change is the one I decry the most.

As for brakes, it really doesn't matter what daretofly can "live with." The park, Cedar Fair and its insurance carriers and ride manufacturers are going to recommend and do what they are going to do...whether dare-to-fly or others of his ilk like it or not. And there are many, many reasons for that, from debt levels to maintenance requirements to potential liability reasons to ride comfort to even guest complaints. It is what it is, and no amount of complaining or suggestions from enthusiasts is likely to change it. That may sound harsh, but its reality. Have input? Sure. Change things? Very, very doubtful.

The more padding the better, I certainly agree with that one.

I have three questions for you, Terpy.

1. What is an ilk?

2. Why is potential liability, ride comfort, and guest complaints not an issue at Holiday World where they actually let their coasters move? Even Voyage is running free of trims this year. Being as it's number 1 on the planet, and Raven and Legend are also top coasters I think that it won't really matter in the end whether the train is slowed to a crawl in the middle and whether every last hill is trimmed to death. If you'd ridden Holiday World's coasters, you'd immediately recognize a difference in intensity from those verses those at above mentioned two parks that are trimmed to an insane level. If maintenance does what it's supposed to do, it should stay smooth regardless of the speed of the coaster (or the forces), and again see Raven, Legend, and Voyage.

3. Since when is it against terms of service for anyone to discuss a thing whether or not it will change anything? I've seen numerous posts whining about The Crypt, for reasons I still don't quite understand. As far as I know, whether or not it will do anything, we can still discuss it. If you don't want to discuss it, ignore the topic.

[The Interpreter]

...I have three questions for you, Terpy.

1. What is an ilk?

A sort or kind. You and people like you...

2. Why is potential liability, ride comfort, and guest complaints not an issue at Holiday World where they actually let their coasters move? Even Voyage is running free of trims this year. Being as it's number 1 on the planet, and Raven and Legend are also top coasters I think that it won't really matter in the end whether the train is slowed to a crawl in the middle and whether every last hill is trimmed to death. If you'd ridden Holiday World's coasters, you'd immediately recognize a difference in intensity from those verses those at above mentioned two parks that are trimmed to an insane level. If maintenance does what it's supposed to do, it should stay smooth regardless of the speed of the coaster (or the forces), and again see Raven, Legend, and Voyage.

It's an issue at Holiday World, too. They just approach things differently...for one thing, they do business in a totally different legal and regulatory environment. In many, many ways, a small park in Indiana does not have the visibility, assets or exposure that a nationwide chain of parks has. It also probably does not have the same insurer.

As for the Holiday World coasters, I have ridden them many, many times. There are many, many wooden coasters I'd rather take a voyage on than Voyage. One of them is in the same park, and is, in my opinion, a far superior though shorter coaster. Others include The Georgia Cyclone and Tremors.

Holiday World chooses to spend a great deal of money maintaining its wooden coasters, and it does so, in part, for marketing reasons. It wants to be known for the intensity of its wooden coasters, and is willing to pay for a price for that. That's one way of doing business. It works...at least for a while. Chains rarely do that.

3. Since when is it against terms of service for anyone to discuss a thing whether or not it will change anything? I've seen numerous posts whining about The Crypt, for reasons I still don't quite understand. As far as I know, whether or not it will do anything, we can still discuss it. If you don't want to discuss it, ignore the topic.

Who said anything about the TOS in this thread? I certainly didn't. All I said, and still say, is you can discuss this all you want (as far as I am concerned), but it is very highly unlikely that it will affect the course of park operations at Cedar Fair in any way whatsoever. There are many other factors that drive why parks operate the ways they do.

[KIBeast]

Let me start by saying that all of the brakes on any KI coaster were pre-Cedar Fair and perhaps some pre-Paramount. Also, Cedar Point hasn't added any new brakes on their coasters recently that I know of either. They have been there for quite some time. How any of that could be related to the SOB accident is way beyond me.

Let me also say that some of the brakes are necessary. Talking Mid Course Brake Runs (MCBR's), they help break the coaster up into sections so that no trains collide with each other.

Perhaps the brakes are pre-Cedar Fair. I'm in doubt as to whether the strength is as well. Example: I do not remember the mid-course brake on Flight of Fear ever stopping you before Cedar Fair took over, but rather more like a typical mid-course brake. There is no way you can doubt that the strength of the Son of Beast brake was turned up after loop removal, which is again post-Cedar Fair. This completely screws up the second half of the ride...but at least there's the first half.

In fact, the MCBR on FOF has been causing the train to nearly stop before CF. It's been doing this for years now

The Beast has seemed more sluggish for the past couple of seasons also. I've heard the spiel so many times...they didn't add any more...blah, blah, blah. (BTW, the video of The Beast testing back in 1979 that is now readily accessible on You Tube shows NO brakes on the helix, so there went that arguement.) Either way, this isn't the point. The point is the strength to which the brakes have been dialed up. Most times than not, if you find a Beast enthusiast, the first thing they complain about is how much they brake it these days. On any coaster, I will never understand the point of building a big tall hill and then slowing it down on the way to the bottom...duh...does that make a shred of sense? That one must leave. The Beast has no airhills (or even potential ones) except for the second hill, which is trimmed as well. This sends the ranking to the toilet for me, and it could be such a world-class coaster. (And is, really anyway.) I could live with the mid-course (at its current strength at max) if they would get rid of the others. I cannot see why in the world it would make that much difference maintenance-wise to a park of KI's caliber just to ditch those trims. If they leave the one in the brake shed, that will slow it enough to not get your back broken on the back curves. And pointedly, if you want to ride a slow-moving smooth coaster, ride The Beastie (which also has a completely pointless non-original trim). If you want to run with the big boys, expect big boy forces.

I'd also like to see this video of The Beast testing with no brakes before the helix. Also, when The Beast was built, they didn't have the technology to compute the forces, it was human calculation, so I'm sure brakes may have been added afterwards to deal with those forces. Therefore, the coaster was already built, why shorten it?

Also, Cedar Point hasn't added any new brakes on their coasters recently that I know of either. They have been there for quite some time.

Not true. Maverick did not have a magnetic brake just out of the tunnel during last season.

Actually, Maverick has always had a brake right after the launch since it first opened.

Also, this is the first season I have ever seen Gemini reduced to a crawl before its spectacular final helix.

Mantis' trim brake on the first drop has not been there for long. I think that appeared last season.

Wrong again. I have been going to CP since 2000 and Mantis had a brake on its' first drop at least since then, more than likely since its' first couple of seasons.

Mean Streak's trims were cranked up more last season as well.

The others...you're probably right.

How any of that could be related to the SOB accident is way beyond me.

Meaning, does the snapping of a vertical timber have anything to do with CF's nerve in letting coasters live to the fullest. Similarly how Magnum's accident from last year influenced the policy to close for the slightest sprinkle. (Or I'm told that's the reason.) Either way, it's a little on the dumb side, though I wouldn't be as upset if they didn't wait until the pavement was dry before re-opening.

Let me also say that some of the brakes are necessary. Talking Mid Course Brake Runs (MCBR's), they help break the coaster up into sections so that no trains collide with each other.

Yes I quite agree with you as long as they are kept in the off position unless needed, which is NOT the way any coaster I've ridden belonging to Cedar Fair operates. That IS however the way Voyage is running this year. (And just look at its intensity factor! You note it's #1 on the planet! Apparently not everyone is turned on by a slow running ride that plods and crawls around the track!) Also, the mid-course brake defense only works if they run enough trains to use it. I know of no coaster at KI besides Vortex that meets that requirement (unless you coun't Backlot, but it's designed differently). (Don't even try to use SOB and Beast as back up. Neither is equipped at this point to serve such a purpose. Beast does not crest the 1st lift until there are no trains on the first part of track or lift hill #2, and SOB only runs two trains. Note the kicker tires have also been removed from both.)

As a final thought, I would like to respectfully disagree with any statement that trim brakes make the ride better. I quite agree with what was said by someone at the Coastermania question and answer session. "Can we get the brakes off The Beast and return it to its former glory?"

Conisdering the brakes were always there, I am confused what you mean by former glory.