Geauga Lake: ACE did NOT take Big Dipper

[The Interpreter]

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_articl...337&catid=3

[BoddaH1994]

"It was made available to the American Coaster Enthusiasts, an association dedicated to roller coasters, a few weeks ago at no cost, other than dismantling, re-locating, and reassembling. They have not accepted that offer," Kinsey added.

I love it. They parade around this idea of saving the Dipper and are offered it at NO COST and didn't accept. Granted, it'd be expensive to move it, but clearly this is an issue of put up or shut up, and they chose neither.

[Zorba]

Where would they have moved it to if they had taken it? I agree that they should've figured something out and taken it.

[BoddaH1994]

Where would they have moved it to if they had taken it? I agree that they should've figured something out and taken it.

I'm certainly not saying that they made the wrong decision by turning down the offer. The fact of the matter is, they've been lobbying for a year for the Big Dipper to be saved and when they had it very blatantly offered to them, they couldn't do anything about it. It really puts a bad impression on the group for the situation. It's like they want it saved.... so long as someone else pays for it.

Publicity stunt by Cedar Fair? Far more than likely. But nonetheless, the offer was on the table and now that thing's going up for auction next week.

[BavarianBeatle]

Where would they have moved it to if they had taken it? I agree that they should've figured something out and taken it.

What about that big field by the train at Stricker's Grove? (Don't know if it would fit though......)

[BoddaH1994]

ACE doesn't own that land. Even if the Stricker family would take the coaster for free, there's no way they could afford to maintain it. I think CF offered it to them as a wakeup call. As in, there's a lot that goes into this and they can't just leave the coaster there and build a shopping mall around it, or leave it there as a smaller park. We're talking big money. They wanted to teach ACE a lesson the hard way.

The PR side has worked out very ironically. Many ACE members have spoken out against Cedar Fair very publicly on account of the Big Dipper, and now the tables have turned because they refused to accept it and that's in the news. It's kind of like lobbying to raise taxes in a city to improve schools, then the public finding out that you live in a different city.

[AintNutinElse2Do]

Here's what I see that happened.

Cedar Fair calls Ace...

Cedar Fair: hey you know that coaster you wanted, well you can have it

ACE: sure that sounds great we appreciate this

Cedar Fair: okay you have to come get it and move it you can get that by Friday right

ACE: we didn't know you were ever going to give it to us so we have not secured a spot yet for it nor the finances

Cedar Fair: okay well I tell you what I'll give you an extra 2 days

ACE: that's not going to be feasible

Cedar Fair: Ha ha boy aren't you all gonna look stupid

[BavarianBeatle]

ACE doesn't own that land. Even if the Stricker family would take the coaster for free, there's no way they could afford to maintain it. I think CF offered it to them as a wakeup call. As in, there's a lot that goes into this and they can't just leave the coaster there and build a shopping mall around it, or leave it there as a smaller park. We're talking big money. They wanted to teach ACE a lesson the hard way.

The PR side has worked out very ironically. Many ACE members have spoken out against Cedar Fair very publicly on account of the Big Dipper, and now the tables have turned because they refused to accept it and that's in the news. It's kind of like lobbying to raise taxes in a city to improve schools, then the public finding out that you live in a different city.

I know what CF did.... It was a very intelligent move on their part, from a PR perspective..... A public "You want it, come get it"

I was speaking hypothetically (and fantasizing a bit) with regard to the potential spot for BD......

[tubaman]

Hmm...I would've at least accepted the trains for memoribilia, then burnt the rest. But, I'm not ACE.

[RollerNut]

Ok, FREE coaster plus costs of dismantling, relocating, and reconstructing and they didn't take it. I pay 50-60 dollars a year for a club that wants to save coasters, but doesn't even bother to try and raise money to save after they are offered it for free. There are 8,000 plus members of ACE. IF each member donates 20 dollars on average towards the Big Dipper than that would 160,000 dollars. Now, I know why the National Roller Coaster Muesum has still yet to be built. I would have glady donated 100 dollars from my other hobbies to moving the Big Dipper.

[AintNutinElse2Do]

I'm interested to see ACE's official response to this.

[The Interpreter]

Hmm...I would've at least accepted the trains for memoribilia, then burnt the rest. But, I'm not ACE.

Burning is not an option...and if you think Cedar Fair took a hit for the publicity it got when it put Big Dipper up for auction, imagine the publicity ACE would get when it destroyed, rather than preserved, a coaster. Besides, you are assuming there weren't obligations in Cedar Fair's offer to actually relocate and operate the coaster...not necessarily a correct assumption.

Ok, FREE coaster plus costs of dismantling, relocating, and reconstructing and they didn't take it. I pay 50-60 dollars a year for a club that wants to save coasters, but doesn't even bother to try and raise money to save after they are offered it for free. There are 8,000 plus members of ACE. IF each member donates 20 dollars on average towards the Big Dipper than that would 160,000 dollars. Now, I know why the National Roller Coaster Muesum has still yet to be built. I would have glady donated 100 dollars from my other hobbies to moving the Big Dipper.

I take it you weren't around during the long, tedious campaign to raise money to preserve Leap the Dips? Many, many say they are willing to give for preservation. A few do, and large sums of money even. Most don't. The fact is most ACErs belong for what they can get (Extended Ride Time, Socials, Publications, Recognition), not what they give (time for the Executive Committee, work to promote the industry and its safety, etc.).

I'm interested to see ACE's official response to this.

Which will either never come or will be very innocuous. Don't expect a blunt and to the point explanation, if past is prologue. ACE wouldn't want to knowingly, upset Cedar Fair in any way. If they do, they may not get future events at their parks...Wait, wasn't that how Coastermania got started?

[Cormaster]

Wow that seems redicolous to me. An association all about preserving coasters won't take a classic coaster thats basically going to be given to them for free. So tell me whats the point of this organization ag ain?

[The Interpreter]

Fine Cormaster. I have this big old elephant...he's costing me about $200,000 a year just to feed and keep. And you can have him. Free. But you can't sell him. You have to keep feeding him. And if he dies, the public is going to make a great deal of fun of you. Your insurance is also going to go up like you will not believe. Want him?

[MrPostman]

Bottom line ACE isn't in the coaster operating business they are in the coaster riding business.

[tubaman]

Hmm...I would've at least accepted the trains for memoribilia, then burnt the rest. But, I'm not ACE.

Burning is not an option...and if you think Cedar Fair took a hit for the publicity it got when it put Big Dipper up for auction, imagine the publicity ACE would get when it destroyed, rather than preserved, a coaster. Besides, you are assuming there weren't obligations in Cedar Fair's offer to actually relocate and operate the coaster...not necessarily a correct assumption.

This is true. So, what becomes of it now?

[Coasterkidman]

^It gets auctioned off to the highest bidder, and lord only knows who that will be. Lets just hope whover it is will let us ride it, kust one more time.

[cstrwomann]

I am very surprised by this comment about ACE. ACE is a very good organization for enthusiasts who like to ride coasters and help to preserve coasters that are considered classics. I guess because GL isn't privately owned the owners can do whatever they want to do. ACE should have had a back up plan to raise money to preserve it somewhere else. ACE and GOCC can't buy coasters. The only way to have it saved is for the state to declare it a landmark and has it been done?? This is the question we have to ask ACE and CF? The cost to move the coaster would be very high I imagine at least $5-6 million. They are trying to make ACE look bad so if it doesn't sell at the auction they can tear it down.

[The Interpreter]

I am very surprised by this comment about ACE. ACE is a very good organization for enthusiasts who like to ride coasters and help to preserve coasters that are considered classics. I guess because GL isn't privately owned the owners can do whatever they want to do. ACE should have had a back up plan to raise money to preserve it somewhere else. ACE and GOCC can't buy coasters. The only way to have it saved is for the state to declare it a landmark and has it been done?? This is the question we have to ask ACE and CF? The cost to move the coaster would be very high I imagine at least $5-6 million. They are trying to make ACE look bad so if it doesn't sell at the auction they can tear it down.

Puh-leeze. First of all, Geauga Lake IS privately owned. ONLY if it were publicly owned would landmark status perhaps save the coaster. The state or federal government can declare it to be as historic as they want to, but that will NOT prevent anyone but a government from selling it, destroying it, or modifying it to use as a Sno-Cone stand. Why do people insist that landmark status requires a private owner to preserve anything? It does not.

Cedar Fair can do whatever it wants with that coaster. It's called a free country. And if Cedar Fair wants to destroy it, they do NOT need ACE's permission or blessing.

[BoddaH1994]

ACE is a very good organization for enthusiasts who like to ride coasters and help to preserve coasters that are considered classics

and....

Bottom line ACE isn't in the coaster operating business they are in the coaster riding business.

I think the first quote was maybe true a few decades ago, but the 2nd quote is true now. I know a lot of people in ACE... a lot of VERY good people. Unfortunately the organization is now 8,000 strong and wants to throw around their weight. This Big Dipper thing is a perfect example. They tried to put pressure on Cedar Fair to save it but wasn't willing, or couldn't get the means to do it themselves. They seem more concerned with ERTs and publications as someone else pointed out.

I mean, they say they preserve rollercoasters, but I've never seen a good example of it happening. Seems like it's just a potential for bad PR from the parks if ACE doesn't get their way. I guess it's obvious why ACE doesn't get many events in the Cedar Fair chain anymore.

[The Interpreter]

...which may be one reason that organization doesn't even have exclusive walkback time at a certain park any more. There comes a time when any organization gets too big for its britches...and many think that time had come....Yes, members of that organization can still participate in the Ruth Voss walkback to The Beast, but it is no longer an exclusive affair...members of all coaster clubs are welcome.

[Coasterkidman]

I guess it's obvious why ACE doesn't get many events in the Cedar Fair chain anymore.

What about Coastermania? And wasn't there an event @ KI last year? What about Wild at Wonderland? How about Coaster Craze at Valleyfair? Coaster Mayhem at WOF? Carolina Coaster Classic? How about ACE Holloween Haunt at KBF? Or the 3rd Annual Fall Thrillfest @ KD? That's 8 events at Cedar Fair Parks in 2 years.

...which may be one reason that organization doesn't even have exclusive walkback time at a certain park any more. There comes a time when any organization gets too big for its britches...and many think that time had come....Yes, members of that organization can still participate in the Ruth Voss walkback to The Beast, but it is no longer an exclusive affair...members of all coaster clubs are welcome.

Bummer, ain't it.

[The Interpreter]

Coastermania is a park event, NOT an ACE event. Same thing for Coaster Craze and Coaster Mayhem. These events are open to members of ALL coaster clubs, and were started by Cedar Fair in order to not have to deal exclusively with a certain organization. Years ago, there was to be a national coaster convention at Cedar Point. After demand after demand, Cedar Point had finally had enough. There are at least two sides to this, like most stories...

[Coasterkidman]

I'm still saying, even if the events are park events, it still doesn't mean that ACE and CF are enimies or something. To say that they don't have very many events at CF parks is rediculous, but to say they don't have many EXLUSIVE events at parks makes a bit more sence. . .

[AintNutinElse2Do]

I'm not sure of how Ohio laws work on this but here in Knoxville there have been many homes with an issued "historical" status. Sounds great but what's happened around here time after time is that the developer goes right ahead and takes a wrecking ball to it. Why, because the $5o fine (literally) is chump change compared to what the land is worth.

[BoddaH1994]

I'm still saying, even if the events are park events, it still doesn't mean that ACE and CF are enimies or something. To say that they don't have very many events at CF parks is rediculous, but to say they don't have many EXLUSIVE events at parks makes a bit more sence. . .

That's what I meant. Even 2 of 3 years ago, many parks had ACE-exclusive events. Even Kings Island had Beast Bash. Now most parks just lump all of the coaster enthusiasts events together, so you're just as well off joining GOCC for $20 as you would joining ACE for $50 or $60 bucks... whatever it is now.

You're absolutely right. ACE and CF are not enemies. They need each other. Unfortunately it seems as though ACE doesn't realize how much more they need CF than CF needs them.

[droid72]

Does anyone know if there are any recent pictures of Big Dipper, or any other shots from inside the park, for that matter? I saw a few over at Geauga Lake Today, but wonder if any of you folks know of more?

I still can't believe the park is defunct. I have such powerful, formative memories of GL...and the always bumpy, but thoroughly enjoyable Big Dipper. I suppose the final nail in the coffin has been driven flush...

Thanks, all!

[Coasterkidman]

I'm still saying, even if the events are park events, it still doesn't mean that ACE and CF are enimies or something. To say that they don't have very many events at CF parks is rediculous, but to say they don't have many EXLUSIVE events at parks makes a bit more sence. . .

That's what I meant. Even 2 of 3 years ago, many parks had ACE-exclusive events. Even Kings Island had Beast Bash. Now most parks just lump all of the coaster enthusiasts events together, so you're just as well off joining GOCC for $20 as you would joining ACE for $50 or $60 bucks... whatever it is now.

You're absolutely right. ACE and CF are not enemies. They need each other. Unfortunately it seems as though ACE doesn't realize how much more they need CF than CF needs them.

O.K. sorry Boddah, misinterpretation. (sp?)

[The Interpreter]

You asked for Mr. Interpretation?

[coasterlink]

Greetings KI fans... I just wanted to drop in and set the record straight on this topic. No one approached ACE and offered Big Dipper at no cost other than dismantling it. None of the five officers were contacted with such an offer, and as far as I can tell, 10 of the 12 other directors (including all three who reside in Ohio) on ACE's executive commmittee are aware of such an offer. It was a representative from Norton Auctioneers who was quoted with that incorrect information on WKYC.com. Whether the media got this wrong or some information was miscommunicated to Norton Auctioneers, I don't know.

I posted a comment after the article on the WYKC website, and emailed the news department as well.

Though I don't know how much it would cost to just dismantle and store Big Dipper, I understand that the cost of dismantling and rebuilding it has been estimated at $3.6 million. That is certainly well beyond any enthusiast group's financial resources, including ACE's. ACE and other organizations can network within the amusement industry to attempt to find new homes for such coasters, as well as work to promote them as viable options for other parks, but there's a limit to what we can offer financially. ACE has nearly $100,000 in its Preservation Fund, but I'm betting a job like this would require at least $1 million.

I wore a retro PKI tee shirt today at the first day of Coaster Con XXXI :-)

~Bill Linkenheimer

Secretary, American Coaster Enthusiasts