How would you describe Son of Beast's roughness?

[Browntggrr]

It's about pain tolerance. Some people are normal, some have spines of steel.

And which group means more to the park?

[kjkjkj]

Or...some people are normal, some have spines of toothpicks and tissue paper.

[The Interpreter]

It's about pain tolerance. Some people are normal, some have spines of steel.

And which group means more to the park?

* The one that brings the most nickels to the park and leaves them there!

At the same time, the park must be cognizant of how many nickels it costs to generate those nickels, from labor to utilities to depreciation to yes, even liabilities. In the end, it call comes down to nickels.

[BavarianBeatle]

I would describe Son of Beast as "At Death's door".

[The Interpreter]

...the ride experience or the ride itself?

[Diamondback FOF]

Maybe both *

*not neccessarily my opinion.

[CedarPointer]

I can't wait for them to make an announcement about the ride (if that even happens), I really want a ride on ol' Sonny next season. It feels like it's been forever since I've been on Son of Beast, and I really really want a ride on it!

I really don't understand how people think Son of Beast is like riding an 80mph jackhammer. People say "oh, how is the ride so much better for you than it is me? What, does it calm down when you get on??" My question for you is how do you think it's that rough? Do the wheels on the car turn into squares when you guys get on...? I don't really get how people could think it is like a giant shaking you or riding an 80mph jackhammer.

This article contains weasel words, vague phrasing that often accompanies biased or unverifiable information. Such statements should be clarified or removed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words

[The Interpreter]

Since when is a person's personal opinion held to standards that Wikipedia claims to enforce, but rarely does?

[CedarPointer]

When they insinuate that their opinion is the majority when it isn't?

[The Interpreter]

Please show me where he does that. I don't see it.

[Browntggrr]

When they insinuate that their opinion is the majority when it isn't?

Really?

Show me where the majority does not believe this....

[shark6495]

The problem with majority is, its never a true majority. I could hand pick ten people and the majority of those people will not like SOB. Then Browntggr could pick his own ten people that have a majority opinion that SOB is good and smooth.

Plus the spinal discussion steel versus tooth picks, take a basic Anatomy and physiology course and see how fragile the spine actually is. Now mind you, you may not be affected by SOB because of your age (the younger you are the better your body is at absorbing spinal traumas), body fat composition/fitness level (if you are in shape your muscles will be better at holding the spine in place versus weak back muscles that allow the spine to move, along with where you sit and how tall you are etc. So the ride could be a good ride for the few who are young enough and small enough that the forces of the ride dont hurt you. But then again if you are too small you could be bounced around like a rag doll.

[KIBOB]

5 Words have surrounded the removal idea for years.

Imagine what could go there....

IMO, there's tons of better things that could go there (If your so fond of woodies, how about a GG?) then the 200 foot, painful, down half the time, costly, lawsuit sparking, Son of Beast.

Actually, 218 so that adds another 18 feet of bashing and bumping lawsuit spawning awesomeness.

KIBOB, sprinting towards the nearest exit.....

[kjkjkj]

When they insinuate that their opinion is the majority when it isn't?

Actually I don't believe I did that at all in my post? Maybe you would like to provide an example? Some members were saying that us members that enjoy Son of Beast are "crazy or insane". Or that the ride must "change" when we get on it because they've NEVER had a good experience on the ride. All I did was jokingly say maybe the ride changes for you when you get on it, such as the wheels turning to squares. Also my comment about paper and toothpick spines was a joke hence the winking emoticon.

I can speak my opinion on these forums, even though I don't agree with you and the Son of Beast haters. Big deal. Get over yourself.

[Browntggrr]

The problem with majority is, its never a true majority. I could hand pick ten people and the majority of those people will not like SOB. Then Browntggr could pick his own ten people that have a majority opinion that SOB is good and smooth.

I don't have to pick anyone. Choose any coaster, travel, or information site and read the comments on SoB. It's clear where the majority stands.

[skaterboy22101]

It's rough, but fun. I like being thrown around on roller coasters. Son of Beast does that the best. I'd ride it all day if I could.

[shark6495]

The problem with majority is, its never a true majority. I could hand pick ten people and the majority of those people will not like SOB. Then Browntggr could pick his own ten people that have a majority opinion that SOB is good and smooth.

I don't have to pick anyone. Choose any coaster, travel, or information site and read the comments on SoB. It's clear where the majority stands.

agreed. I was not calling you out as either believing SOB is smooth or unsmooth. I just used your name because you were the last one to post before me so it was hypothetical....

[coaster_junky]

i chose other, i did that because there is such a giant gap between the second and third choices, i'll admit that Son of Beast is a little rough, but pretty much every true wooden roller coaster has it's rough spots, but i have found The Beast and even the blue racer to give me rides that are ten times rougher than the ones that Son of Beast has given me.

i know this might just be me, but i think that alot of the people that dislike Son of Beast, it's more of a mind over matter factor, than one of their own true experience. by this i mean that some people hear from someone who's brother's, friend's father-in-law talked about how someone said it was a rough roller coaster and they go into the ride with the idea that they are going to have the worst and roughest roller coaster ride ever and they think about it so much that they end up tricking themselves into thinking that they really did have a horrid experience on the ride.

sorta like people that are afraid of needles and they over react when they go to get them, but end up being fine when they don't think about it.

once again this is my opinion and i'm not saying this is what is going on with everyone.

[CincyMan98]

It is really rough, but it doesn't bang me around. It shakes, it hurts my head - but it doesn't bang me from side to side like other people's experiences.

[ahank]

I voted for the second one. I think it really depends on where you are sitting and how you are sitting. I remember the first time I rode it I was in the third row and I was slouching; that caused me quite a bit of pain. The next time I rode it I rode in the front seat in a much better position and it treated me fine.

[bkroz]

The problem with majority is, its never a true majority. I could hand pick ten people and the majority of those people will not like SOB. Then Browntggr could pick his own ten people that have a majority opinion that SOB is good and smooth.

I don't have to pick anyone. Choose any coaster, travel, or information site and read the comments on SoB. It's clear where the majority stands.

As a psychology major who deals with this sort of thing quite often, I can tell you that that would not be a true representation of the riders of Son of Beast. That would be representative of those who ride Son of Beast, and then are enthusiastic enough to log online, create an account somewhere, and then rate it - a much more selective group that the general public who rides the ride, and far from a majority. And when a minority's opinions are misconstrued as a representation of an overwhelming majority, issues arise...

[Beast1979]

but pretty much every true wooden roller coaster has it's rough spots

[Browntggrr]

As a psychology major who deals with this sort of thing quite often, I can tell you that that would not be a true representation of the riders of Son of Beast. That would be representative of those who ride Son of Beast, and then are enthusiastic enough to log online, create an account somewhere, and then rate it - a much more selective group that the general public who rides the ride, and far from a majority. And when a minority's opinions are misconstrued as a representation of an overwhelming majority, issues arise...

There is nothing psychological about people's opinions. The opinions are documented for the public to view. If the ride was well liked, it would receive good reviews, since it is not well liked, the majority of the reviews are negative.

We can only go upon the information provided and found, and in that information, it is clear where the majority stands.

[bkroz]

As a psychology major who deals with this sort of thing quite often, I can tell you that that would not be a true representation of the riders of Son of Beast. That would be representative of those who ride Son of Beast, and then are enthusiastic enough to log online, create an account somewhere, and then rate it - a much more selective group that the general public who rides the ride, and far from a majority. And when a minority's opinions are misconstrued as a representation of an overwhelming majority, issues arise...

There is nothing psychological about people's opinions. The opinions are documented for the public to view. If the ride was well liked, it would receive good reviews, since it is not well liked, the majority of the reviews are negative.

We can only go upon the information provided and found, and in that information, it is clear where the majority stands.

You seem to misunderstand the point. What I mean is, you cannot look at a collection of reviews on websites and say "See, Son of Beast gets a 3.5 / 10 on average, so ha." That's not how it works. What you COULD say, is that, out of all of those people who rate the ride on roller coaster rating websites, an average of 3.5/10 emerges. It would be ridiculous to say that the community who has enough passion to create an account, log on, and scientifically arrive at a numerical representation of the ride's quality is representative of every single person who has opinions on the ride. That would be insane. (And besides that, I imagine that a number of people on these rating sites assign the ride either a ten or a 1, if only to combat others who they think unfairly assigned the ride either a 1 or a 10).

Whatever you draw from amusement park rating sites is precisely that - a number drawn from an amusement park rating site. There are doubtlessly those who consider Son of Beast a 10/10, and those who genuinely consider it a 1/10 (and every decimal place in between), but who never take the time to create an account at these websites you frequent. As such, the only "consensus" you can draw from such a compilation of information is what a very very specific group of folks thinks of the ride. It's neither representative of the general public, nor of a majority of park goers. It doesn't claim to be. Be careful not to confuse that. Some of my friends love the ride, some think it's okay - none went online to express their opinion.

The only review you're getting in the long run is the review of those who are enthusiastic enough to get online and rate it - that represents a very minuscule amount of Son of Beast's total ridership, and shouldn't be thought of as being anything other than that. I'm not saying Son of Beast is the best ride, and I would agree with your conclusion that most people probably don't like it as a whole - I'm simply pointing out the flaws in your method of arriving at that conclusion.

[Tom76257]

but i have found The Beast and even the blue racer to give me rides that are ten times rougher than the ones that Son of Beast has given me.

I agree with you on account of Blue Racer. I rode it once this season and that was enough. It seemed as if EVERY bunny hill on the way back from the turnaround was filled with roughness. I've never really had Son of Beast hurt my ribs like Blue Racer did. Yet, when I rode its mirror image 22 times this season just to the right of it I didn't experience even one tenth of the roughness and enjoyed my painless rides on Red Racer. Sonny's only given me one bad ride since I first rode it in 2000 and I hope I get many more rides on one of my favorite wooden coasters in the near future.

[coaster_junky]

but pretty much every true wooden roller coaster has it's rough spots

if you noticed, i never implied that every true wooden roller coaster has rough spots , although a good majority of them do.

[shark6495]

As a psychology major who deals with this sort of thing quite often, I can tell you that that would not be a true representation of the riders of Son of Beast. That would be representative of those who ride Son of Beast, and then are enthusiastic enough to log online, create an account somewhere, and then rate it - a much more selective group that the general public who rides the ride, and far from a majority. And when a minority's opinions are misconstrued as a representation of an overwhelming majority, issues arise...

There is nothing psychological about people's opinions. The opinions are documented for the public to view. If the ride was well liked, it would receive good reviews, since it is not well liked, the majority of the reviews are negative.

We can only go upon the information provided and found, and in that information, it is clear where the majority stands.

You seem to misunderstand the point. What I mean is, you cannot look at a collection of reviews on websites and say "See, Son of Beast gets a 3.5 / 10 on average, so ha." That's not how it works. What you COULD say, is that, out of all of those people who rate the ride on roller coaster rating websites, an average of 3.5/10 emerges. It would be ridiculous to say that the community who has enough passion to create an account, log on, and scientifically arrive at a numerical representation of the ride's quality is representative of every single person who has opinions on the ride. That would be insane. (And besides that, I imagine that a number of people on these rating sites assign the ride either a ten or a 1, if only to combat others who they think unfairly assigned the ride either a 1 or a 10).

Whatever you draw from amusement park rating sites is precisely that - a number drawn from an amusement park rating site. There are doubtlessly those who consider Son of Beast a 10/10, and those who genuinely consider it a 1/10 (and every decimal place in between), but who never take the time to create an account at these websites you frequent. As such, the only "consensus" you can draw from such a compilation of information is what a very very specific group of folks thinks of the ride. It's neither representative of the general public, nor of a majority of park goers. It doesn't claim to be. Be careful not to confuse that. Some of my friends love the ride, some think it's okay - none went online to express their opinion.

The only review you're getting in the long run is the review of those who are enthusiastic enough to get online and rate it - that represents a very minuscule amount of Son of Beast's total ridership, and shouldn't be thought of as being anything other than that. I'm not saying Son of Beast is the best ride, and I would agree with your conclusion that most people probably don't like it as a whole - I'm simply pointing out the flaws in your method of arriving at that conclusion.

I am glad you had the time and energy to write that all out so elegantly. During my undergrad I had to do surverys and explain the flaw in the gathering of the material and surveys and you make a great point, not everyone has the time/energy/or want to go online and fill out a survey. Also people do try to counter what others have said. "Well Jim said this ride was only a 2 so to prove him wrong I will vote 10 even though I feel it is only an 8."

Wooden coasters are rough, no doubt. How some of you can say that you have experienced rougher rides on racer and Beast is beyond me but hey roughness of a ride is all in perception and not scientific measurement so I believe you. The only part time I have a rough ride on Beast is going into the Helix. On racer I never have had a rough experience on that ride, using rough as painful and jerky. On SOB though I do feel the pains of the ride. But to each their own I guess...

[Beast1979]

if you noticed, i never implied that every true wooden roller coaster has rough spots , although a good majority of them do.

You need to get out of Ohio. Even if you stay in Ohio, though, it's hard to say a majority of woodies have rough spots. Beast and Racer and Mean Streak, I'll give ya those. But Blue Streak is very smooth. Teddy Bear is really smooth. Tornado is surprisingly smooth. And then you leave the state, and you start to ride things like Thunderhead, Kentucky Rumbler, and (going from what others say) Viper, Great American Scream Machine, Legend, Raven.

Terpy said it best around here somewhere. "Given the proper and due mainenance, there is no reason any wooden roller coaster should be any less smooth then a steel" or something like that.

[coaster_junky]

^okay my point isn't that wooden roller coasters are rough because they arn't, all i'm saying is almost every wooden roller coaster has it's rough spots, just as some steel coasters, wether it be a transition or even an inversion. all i'm saying is most wooden roller coasters have rough patches, and you can't say they don't just because you've never felt them, and as for blue streak being smooth with no rough spots, i'm guessing that you have never ridden it over a wheel.

i'm not trying to throw flames here, i'm just getting tired of whenever someone post something to defend Son of Beast, haters have to jump at the opprotunity to try and start an argument.

[catzdrummer09]

^ agreed, and the opposite applies as well.

People have different opinions. Accept it. What may be enjoyable for me may suck for you and what may be smooth for you may be rough for me. For example, my last trip to Cedar Point I decided to ride Mean Streak to form my own opinion after hearing TONS of complaints. I found a walk-on in the station, and soon after had my own idea as to why. Once we hit the bottom of the first drop, I heard my back pop and could not breathe for the rest of the ride and nearly 20 minutes or so afterward. In addition, my girlfriend left crying with a headache, and my two friends were complaining about miscellaneous pains that eventually went away. As a result, I decided to never ride the ride again... Which is probably the best way to avoid such issues as the above.

Personally, I enjoy the ride. (WARNING...OPINION AHEAD) I find it to be a rather fun experience...always have and always will (hopefully). Granted, there are things that could be fixed and changed to make the ride more enjoyable but I also don't find it to be the treacherous torture device that (apparently) most people do. AND, there is one thing that will solve the problem indefinitely...if you don't like it, don't ride it.

And, in support of the "mind over matter" issue above. It is a proven fact that your presumptions about something will effect your experiences. In my Psychology class we discussed a test that was done with some college students a few years back. A small group was selected to go to a bar and drink all they wanted for free and they're actions would be observed and documented throughout the experiment. Within a couple hours, the entire group was acting like they were completely smashed drunk...that is...until they were told what they were drinking was simply sparkling cider and other non alcoholic drinks... This just proves that what you've been told, or have presumed can drastically effect your experience with something and change the results of your opinion. I'm not saying that that is exactly what has happened here, I'm just putting in my two cents.

Catz, running for the door.