Second Turnstile On Beast

[Hank]

Somewhat off the topic, but something I noticed about Raptor at Cedar Point is the lack of a longer station. Three trains are on the circuit, but two are usually in or almost in the station - and if the station was a bit longer, the second train could be unloading or unloading & loading along with the first while the third is out and about. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but my logic insists I'm headed in the right direction.

[Fear the Four]

When did they start using the trims for The Beast?

[The Interpreter]

Also known as: When did The Beast open?

[IndyGuy4KI]

When did they start using the trims for The Beast?

I think that would be 1979 ,right Terp.

[The Interpreter]

Yep...they were there and worked the first day....

[Fear the Four]

Also known as: When did The Beast open?

I thought The Beast didn't always use the trims under that shed.

[The Interpreter]

They have always been used...

[Fear the Four]

They have always been used...

Oh I thought I've read on here they weren't always used. I guess I must of read it wrong.

[IndyGuy4KI]

They have always been used...

Oh I thought I've read on here they weren't always used. I guess I must of read it wrong.

Just cause it was posted, that does not make it fact. I would trust Terpy's answer on this one though.

[Fear the Four]

They have always been used...

Oh I thought I've read on here they weren't always used. I guess I must of read it wrong.

Just cause it was posted, that does not make it fact. I would trust Terpy's answer on this one though.

I've read it multiple times by multiple people who knows they could be right and terpy could be wrong, terpy could be right and the others could be wrong.

But I do trust Terpy more.

[The Interpreter]

I think what you read was whether or not it was used as a possible block brake. But it has always been used to at least trim....

[Browntggrr]

Somewhat off the topic, but something I noticed about Raptor at Cedar Point is the lack of a longer station. Three trains are on the circuit, but two are usually in or almost in the station - and if the station was a bit longer, the second train could be unloading or unloading & loading along with the first while the third is out and about. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but my logic insists I'm headed in the right direction.

Throughput would still be the same even if the station was longer as the "loaded" train in the station cannot move forward until the train on the circut is past the MCBR.

[bkroz]

I heard (correct me if I'm wrong) that The Beast ran exactly once with passengers & without trims, before it was officially opened and on its first ride with the crew / designers, etc. Again, I could be wrong, but that's what I'd heard. The public, though, has never ridden it without trims.

[Hank]

Somewhat off the topic, but something I noticed about Raptor at Cedar Point is the lack of a longer station. Three trains are on the circuit, but two are usually in or almost in the station - and if the station was a bit longer, the second train could be unloading or unloading & loading along with the first while the third is out and about. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but my logic insists I'm headed in the right direction.

Throughput would still be the same even if the station was longer as the "loaded" train in the station cannot move forward until the train on the circut is past the MCBR.

I guess what I envision is a long enough station to handle the loading and unloading of two trains. Would this increase the hourly capacity?

[The Beast Rider]

^^

Not quite true. There have been a few events over the years in which the trims were "turned off". This was in the days of the skids when they were actually adjustable. There was also a time or two where Mrs. Voss had a hand in getting her ACER's a unique morning ride as well.

[Browntggrr]

I heard (correct me if I'm wrong) that The Beast ran exactly once with passengers & without trims, before it was officially opened and on its first ride with the crew / designers, etc. Again, I could be wrong, but that's what I'd heard. The public, though, has never ridden it without trims.

That is true, during the very early stages of the testing period, there were no trims, and the ride was unbearable.

Video of Beast testing in 1980:

I purchased this beta video sometime ago off E-Bay, found a old beta player, and converted it to VHS. Someone that I sent it here at KICentral to posted it to youtube. Anyway, you can see that the ride is still being built, the trains are still painted different colors, and you can also see the skid brake locations down the first hill and the straitaway- but not on the 2nd hill.

Now here is a video from 2006 that show the same brakes including the 2nd hill:

As you can see, the brake locations have not changed.

In "Riding History to the Limits" http://www.cetconnect.org/KingsIsland/videos.aspx Dennis Speigel, Assistant GM of the park when Beast was being built, explains what Beast was like w/o the trims being there. Go to the Rivertown video and the comments he makes are at the 5:02 mark.

Now there have been numerous reports of events where Beast did not have the trims. But as you can see in the videos, the trims are not easily accessible. Until the park comes out with an official statement of a Beast trimless ride, I consider the myth of riding a trimless Beast is something like: "Magnum is sinking".

I guess what I envision is a long enough station to handle the loading and unloading of two trains. Would this increase the hourly capacity?

I understand your thinking as I used to think the same way, but, the third train cannot leave the station while two trains are on the circuit. So basically even if you would have a longer station for loading/ unloading, the "new" passengers would still have to wait in the station until one train is behind them in the station and the other train is past the MCBR.

It would actually cost the park more money to position employees to make the longer station, and then those same employees would be standing around waiting.

[The Interpreter]

The trims were never, ever, ever turned off when members of the public in any capacity were riding the ride. They may have been, and in fact were, turned down, but they were never actually completely turned off.....The ride was not and is not approved to run for the public in such a fashion.

And before someone marches on here and says otherwise, think about what you are saying. There could have been (and could still be) serious consequences for the park if such a thing were to have occurred.

[DeLorean Rider]

I heard (correct me if I'm wrong) that The Beast ran exactly once with passengers & without trims, before it was officially opened and on its first ride with the crew / designers, etc. Again, I could be wrong, but that's what I'd heard. The public, though, has never ridden it without trims.

That is true, during the very early stages of the testing period, there were no trims, and the ride was unbearable.

Video of Beast testing in 1980:

I purchased this beta video sometime ago off E-Bay, found a old beta player, and converted it to VHS. Someone that I sent it here at KICentral to posted it to youtube. Anyway, you can see that the ride is still being built, the trains are still painted different colors, and you can also see the skid brake locations down the first hill and the straitaway- but not on the 2nd hill.

WOW, thank you so much for posting this video. FINALLY there is a video that can be shown when people INSIST that the ride used to not have trim!

[KIfan1980]

WOW, thank you so much for posting this video. FINALLY there is a video that can be shown when people INSIST that the ride used to not have trim!

And yet the same video can be used to show that the amount of trimming on Beast has increased over the years. If you check the skid trim on the first drop (1:48 on first video, 1:29 on the second video) you'll see that the length of the trim is significantly longer in the later.

[Cory Butcher]

WOW, thank you so much for posting this video. FINALLY there is a video that can be shown when people INSIST that the ride used to not have trim!

And yet the same video can be used to show that the amount of trimming on Beast has increased over the years. If you check the skid trim on the first drop (1:48 on first video, 1:29 on the second video) you'll see that the length of the trim is significantly longer in the later.

For the umpteenth time, even though the brake run is longer, it was a skid break and needed a long run of friction resistance to slow the train, the new magnetic brakes rob the train of the SAME amount of momentum, only quicker.

[DOCTOR DOOM!!!]

It's not that they added more trims to Beast, it's the style of brakes used! The old skid brakes were longer and didn't hit as hard as the magnetic trims that are used today! But the skid brakes achieved the same speed as the magnetic brakes providing it was not raining! I believe people complain about trims today because you can actually feel them slowing you down especially on the drops off the lift hill where as you could not feel the skid brakes no where near as much! I think they may have added an extra magnetic trim after the turn coming from the 1st drops tunnel recently when Cedar Fair took over! I don't recall it being there during the Paramount or Taft days! (Both types, Magnetic or Skid!) Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong!

1st post!!!

EDIT: just watched video and I seen skid brakes where I mentioned earlier! When the brakes were switched to magnetic, however I don't recall a brake being there until Cedar Point came in... I could be wrong!

[BavarianBeatle]

Wow!, Just... Wow! I just read about The Beast having turnstyles and people discussing trim brakes on lift hills...... There's 10 miutes of my life I'll never get back!

[Tomkatt7]

Wow!, Just... Wow! I just read about The Beast having turnstyles and people discussing trim brakes on lift hills...... There's 10 miutes of my life I'll never get back!

LOL, well you weren't gonna do anything constructive with those 10 minutes anyways!

[BavarianBeatle]

Wow!, Just... Wow! I just read about The Beast having turnstyles and people discussing trim brakes on lift hills...... There's 10 miutes of my life I'll never get back!

LOL, well you weren't gonna do anything constructive with those 10 minutes anyways!

I could have seen how badly I'm losing in the KIC basketball pool! But that probably doesn't count as "constructive"....LOL!

[The Interpreter]

It's not that they added more trims to Beast, it's the style of brakes used! The old skid brakes were longer and didn't hit as hard as the magnetic trims that are used today! But the skid brakes achieved the same speed as the magnetic brakes providing it was not raining! I believe people complain about trims today because you can actually feel them slowing you down especially on the drops off the lift hill where as you could not feel the skid brakes no where near as much! I think they may have added an extra magnetic trim after the turn coming from the 1st drops tunnel recently when Cedar Fair took over! I don't recall it being there during the Paramount or Taft days! (Both types, Magnetic or Skid!) Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong!

1st post!!!

EDIT: just watched video and I seen skid brakes where I mentioned earlier! When the brakes were switched to magnetic, however I don't recall a brake being there until Cedar Point came in... I could be wrong!

And you are....there was a BRIEF period under Paramount Parks' ownership...yes PP, that that was not there, but it was no more than a couple of months...and it was indeed later replaced with the magnetic brake you now see there. This was long before Cedar Fair purchased the park.

[DeLorean Rider]

The Beast was converted from skid brakes to combination fin and magnetic brakes in 2002.

[KIfan1980]

WOW, thank you so much for posting this video. FINALLY there is a video that can be shown when people INSIST that the ride used to not have trim!

And yet the same video can be used to show that the amount of trimming on Beast has increased over the years. If you check the skid trim on the first drop (1:48 on first video, 1:29 on the second video) you'll see that the length of the trim is significantly longer in the later.

For the umpteenth time, even though the brake run is longer, it was a skid break and needed a long run of friction resistance to slow the train, the new magnetic brakes rob the train of the SAME amount of momentum, only quicker.

Cory - Based upon your response, it looks like you failed to actually view the videos and look for what I was talking about - instead you assumed you knew. If you watch, you will see that:

- BOTH video's have SKID brakes (while the 2nd video was posted to YouTube in 2006, it is older - before the transition to magnetic brakes)

- The earlier video has a shorter skid brake

- The later video has a longer skid brake

Now, I'll state that I have no idea as to the other parameters that could affect the impact that each of these skid brakes has on the momentum of a train (material and loading come to mind), but it is obvious that between the time the first video was taken and the second video was taken, someone increased the length of trim on the first drop.

And yes, I know you are correct that when it was changed to a magnetic trim, it became much shorter - taking out the momentum of the train much quicker.

[shark6495]

well the first video was before the ride opened.... the second was after that. So I would go to guess that after some testing someone said "we should slow this ride down. So we should make the skid brake longer. This may cause some sort of argument on the 'internet' in the future. But it will keep the ride running that long."

[segdog2]

Years ago I had the pleasure of riding The Beast with an Acer. This was the guy who rode it a bunch of times in a row over days. (I think, or maybe just getting a ridership record) I may still have his card he signed with the ride number on it. Wish I had more info on this guy. Anyway, he told me that he rode The Beast once with some exclusive people during what he called a speed test. he stated the train nearly reached the to of the second lift hill before catching the chain. I have no idea if its true. dont see why the guy would lie. maybe he is still an Ace member and still holds the record of whatever he was chasing?

[tycoonrebel7188]

I can say from experience that on a hot day with a full train, said train will shoot up the second lift pretty far.