OFFICIAL! Son of Beast Will NOT Operate in 2010

[Shaggy]

FF EKU is obviously passionate about SOB, and that is respectable. I'll never knock someone for feeling strongly about a ride at KI. Lord knows I have felt strongly about a few rides at KI, most notably (and ironically) SOB. (But I'll get to that in a minute...)

That having been said, I also feel that sometimes fans of KI can't see the forest for the trees. Or in this case, people can't see the coaster for all of the broken wood. If we set comparisons, contradictions and personal feelings aside, it is still my opinion that SOB has likely seen it's last passenger. If I were a part of the decision making SOB would receive a negative vote from me. I base that on two things:

1. It's inability to be further marketed

2. 25 years of professional experience in the business world.

Now, if plans were made to essentially rebuild all but the first 1/3 of the layout and rename/retheme it, then it may have a chance at success. But that's a gamble and not a certified payoff. Someone made a comparison to Diamondback and called that a gamble... not so much. B&M has a nearly perfect track record for timely installs, impeccible operating timetables and overall safety. A B&M hyper was not a gamble for KI as far as a mechanical ride unit. Installing the $25M coaster during an economically depressed time was, and is, it's largets risk. So I can't imagine gambling both finacially and operationally on a 10-year old attraction.

The amusement industry is a fickle one. People always want something new... hence new attractions, new "experiences" that are routinely installed. Why else are all ads, commericals, literature, websites always touting the new attractions? Because it's a new "experience." A re-build of something that has lost it's mass appeal could be a step in the wrong direction.

Some may be quick to disagree or judge me based on what I feel is the best business decision for KI. But I'll let you in on a little something. I was one of the biggest champions of that ride, beginning before the coaster was even built.

My history with SOB is long, thorough and memorable. I was made privvy of it when it was simply a 3-d paper rendering. I was at the park when the surveyors began the land measurements. I was at the park the day the 1st footer was poured. I was at the park the day the crate was delivered. I was at the park the day of the announcement. I was at the park the day the trains were first placed on the track. I was there the day the train made it's first cycle and witnessed it firsthand. I attended the media event. I was on the ride at the end of the media event when it was shut down - and it's first re-tracking/rebuild began. I was on SOB for 2 tv show filmings and 1 commerical shoot. I was the on-ride commentator for the Discovery Channel special featuring the ride. I rode it 21 times in a row that day, with a camera sitting right next to me. I passionately supported, championed and defended the coaster for years on websites and in enthusiast circles. I rode it for years and years. I loved that ride, and I am most appreciative of those that allowed me to be a part of the exciting experience of seeing a ride go from an idea to reality. That's not meant to brag, simply to exemplify that it was an important coaster to me. I'll never forget the amazing times surrounding it.

I took my last ride on the "looped" SOB just a few weeks before the accident/closure. I exited that ride frustrated by the pitiful and unenjoyable experience the coaster delivered vowing to not ride again. I did not ride again until the G-trains were put on, and that was a simple "I'll give them a try" mindset. I took one ride on it in that state... and never rode it again. It was, as I had suspected, a horrid change to the original ride concept that still delivered a rough ride and eliminated the most redeeming part of the coaster.

As silly as it sounds, I walked away, bid farewell to it that night, made my peace, and I closed that chapter in my life. I love KI far more than I ever could SOB. So I can't help but desire much better experiences in it's place in the future. SOB has been a blemish on the park I love most. That, in itself, is enough to deny any sort of revival of the coaster.

[thunderbeast1968]

Folks,

Take a step back and look at SOB without wearing fan glasses.

Imagine you had a 10-year-old car that had required a major engine overhaul on 3 seperate occasions. What if that car had cost you double what the original budgeted expenditure should have been. Add in the fact that the car had an issue that provoked a serious accident injuring several people. What if that accident prompted a multi-tiered lawsuit, and insurace issues. Finally, what if 75% of those you know refuse to ride in the car because of it's past history.

What would you do with the car?

[thunderbeast1968]

A car costs a lot less. If your car was a mult-million dollar project, you would do practically anything to fix it. My opinion, Texas Giant makeover.

[DropZone99]

A car costs a lot less. If your car was a mult-million dollar project, you would do practically anything to fix it. My opinion, Texas Giant makeover.

My point exactly. Cars cost alot, but chances are it's not going to be breaking down if it's an expensive car. If you go buy some cheap piece of crap car, chances are it will breakdown often and it'd be cheaper to just buy a new one. But with coasters, they cost millions of dollars (Son of Beast cost 20 million to build I believe), and in 2000 it wasn't as common for coasters to cost that much. Since Kings Island bought an expensive coaster, they didn't expect it to have all the problems it did. I bet they feel like it'd be a big waste of money to remove it and build something new. So they are modifying the coaster because it will cost less than making a new one, and they can advertise it as a new coaster.

[CoastersRZ]

Excellent post Shaggy!

I too was at the Discovery Channel shoot on Son of Beast many many years ago.

I concur that Son of Beast never had the same public support that rides like The Beast has. Heck, look at Diamondback. That ride has become an instant hit and has a huge following.

I also agree with many of your comments from a business stand point. The park could attempt to "rebuild" the engine on the ride one more time, but there is no guarantee how long the fix would work. And as you stated, the marketability of the ride is pretty much non-existant now. Not to mention that the rides` reputation would prevent some people from even trying the ride if it was fixed.

Personally, I think its days of running in the park are over. Save for a major rebuild of half the ride, I think its site will eventually be used for future development. At this point in time, if KI wants another wooden coaster, I`d say instead of trying to rectify the SoB situation, just go to the B&M of wood coasters, GCI, and get a brand new creation.

[windshawne]

Sorry to be so blunt, but good riddance. I have never enjoyed it, and my last ride on it was sheer hell. It was a great idea, just didn't pan out-reminds me of Bat, and its had more chances than it should have had.

[shark6495]

wow I leave for 1 day and there are 3 new pages of rational and irrational posts, good all KIC, I jest.

Ya'll are seriously taking the car to coaster comparison to seriously. A car is cheaper than a coaster but a car is expensive to the person buying it. Just like a coaster may be a large investment to the company buying it. Its all relative to the person. Same thing with buying dinner, one person may think 7 dollars for a meal is average while another person will spend 40 bucks on a meal. But people complain about the 7 dollar meal just as much as the 40 dollar meal.

Shaggy has made some very rational neutral thoughts on the ride. He is right. Taking into account the sunk costs, its still a risk investing more money. FF EKU you say you are a economy major (or business or something similar) so you understand calculated risks. The more fixes done to SOB causes the ride to become more of a risk. The first fix was to see if they could get it right. Then they got new trains. The park has to look at it from a business sense that says how many more times can we fix this ride? Do we continue to pour money into this ride or do we cut our losses and invest in something new. Its a gamble. People will always say oh it was one more fix from being perfect, and some will say its perfect that way it is. Hate to break it to anyone but if the park was not happy with the ride given to the guests then the ride will not open. End of story. The company has itself to worry about. If it thinks it will get another lawsuit over a rough ride then the ride is gone.

FF EKU, saying anyone who ignored their doctors warnings and gets hurt on this ride is absurd. A few people who have suffered injuries, the latest included, did not know they had the "pre-existing" concerns to cause a future injury. For a ride to cause a minor pre-existing condition to turn into a life threatening sitatuion is not a good thing at all. You say she waited to long to go to the doctors? Have you ever heard of people "twisting" their ankle and thought nothing of it. Then a week later they go to the doctors to find out that "twist" tore all of the ligaments? or caused a fracture? The lady could have been riding the ride, gotten off and felt slight pang of injury in her temple (common spot for burst blood vessels). If its a slow bleeder nothing else should have hurt her, except maybe for a slight headache (which she may have thought was just the ride caused a headache.) She went about the day but thought nothing of it, how many times have we (KIC Community left a ride and thought man I got a headache, oh well two aspirin will fix it). She went home, continued doing her motherly details, but still a headache, and no real reason for it. Her husband gets home (from a business trip or what have you) she mentions that she has had a headache since she got off the ride. He says we should go to the emergency room. At the ER they find out blood has been leaking onto the brain (you may not know this but blood is actually bad for the brain, it will kill it if the blood comes into contact with brain tissue) and she is put into ICU. After that she says hey SOB caused the injury.

That time line does not sound soo far off base.....

[windshawne]

wow I leave for 1 day and there are 3 new pages of rational and irrational posts, good all KIC, I jest.

Ya'll are seriously taking the car to coaster comparison to seriously. A car is cheaper than a coaster but a car is expensive to the person buying it. Just like a coaster may be a large investment to the company buying it. Its all relative to the person. Same thing with buying dinner, one person may think 7 dollars for a meal is average while another person will spend 40 bucks on a meal. But people complain about the 7 dollar meal just as much as the 40 dollar meal.

Shaggy has made some very rational neutral thoughts on the ride. He is right. Taking into account the sunk costs, its still a risk investing more money. FF EKU you say you are a economy major (or business or something similar) so you understand calculated risks. The more fixes done to SOB causes the ride to become more of a risk. The first fix was to see if they could get it right. Then they got new trains. The park has to look at it from a business sense that says how many more times can we fix this ride? Do we continue to pour money into this ride or do we cut our losses and invest in something new. Its a gamble. People will always say oh it was one more fix from being perfect, and some will say its perfect that way it is. Hate to break it to anyone but if the park was not happy with the ride given to the guests then the ride will not open. End of story. The company has itself to worry about. If it thinks it will get another lawsuit over a rough ride then the ride is gone.

FF EKU, saying anyone who ignored their doctors warnings and gets hurt on this ride is absurd. A few people who have suffered injuries, the latest included, did not know they had the "pre-existing" concerns to cause a future injury. For a ride to cause a minor pre-existing condition to turn into a life threatening sitatuion is not a good thing at all. You say she waited to long to go to the doctors? Have you ever heard of people "twisting" their ankle and thought nothing of it. Then a week later they go to the doctors to find out that "twist" tore all of the ligaments? or caused a fracture? The lady could have been riding the ride, gotten off and felt slight pang of injury in her temple (common spot for burst blood vessels). If its a slow bleeder nothing else should have hurt her, except maybe for a slight headache (which she may have thought was just the ride caused a headache.) She went about the day but thought nothing of it, how many times have we (KIC Community left a ride and thought man I got a headache, oh well two aspirin will fix it). She went home, continued doing her motherly details, but still a headache, and no real reason for it. Her husband gets home (from a business trip or what have you) she mentions that she has had a headache since she got off the ride. He says we should go to the emergency room. At the ER they find out blood has been leaking onto the brain (you may not know this but blood is actually bad for the brain, it will kill it if the blood comes into contact with brain tissue) and she is put into ICU. After that she says hey SOB caused the injury.

That time line does not sound soo far off base.....

Well said. Hits it straight on.

[Aaron88stang]

How about a new ride that just happens to re-use the SOB lift hill/drop, station and queue? Could we then look at it as a new attraction that happens to save a large amount of money by re-using these things and not just additional cost dumped into fixing SOB? That drop is really the only thing I enjoy about SOB in its current state and it would be a crime to destroy that structure. It is beautiful and an engineering marvel.

[CoastersRZ]

Well, calling SoB an engineering marvel is a bit of an oxymoron, considering that it has had design defects which contributed to the original accident. And it wouldn`t be in the situation it is presently in if it was an engineering marvel.

[Aaron88stang]

Well, calling SoB an engineering marvel is a bit of an oxymoron, considering that it has had design defects which contributed to the original accident. And it wouldn`t be in the situation it is presently in if it was an engineering marvel.

the ride in its entirety is not the marvel, just the lift hill and drop.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

178 174 177 176 173 167 148 133 131 136 Son of Beast (SBNO) Kings Island OH

From left to right, 2009, 2008, etc until 2000.

http://www.ushsho.co...artable2009.htm

That's SOB's rank of the 181 wooden coasters in the world that had enough votes to be ranked in Mitch's poll.

Let's set fire to Action Zone....Drop Tower will survive though because it's immune to fire. Everyone knows that.

So Mitch is God now? Why does his opinion matter more than any?

It's a poll, made up of votes from, I don't know...hundreds? thousands? of people. Who said it was Mitch's rank on SOB? Oh, he's Jesus by the way.

yep I am done with this topic after this.

I want to apologize to everyone for apparently missing the memo on this whole thread.

[LongliveKingsCobra]

I am so confused. What is going on here?

[Beast1979]

People are posting rational and logical posts and some people are letting their opinions on the ride get in the way. That's about the gist of it.

[bkroz]

One thing I highly suggest is that no one judge any ride anywhere based on a "poll" or a "ranking." Son of Beast is Son of Beast, and is known by enthusiasts of all shapes and sizes as thee painful wooden roller coaster. Even those who haven't ridden it just see it and think 1 / 10. The general public, representing 98% of those who visit the ride on a given day, do not go home, search for sites like this or Mitch's poll, and fill it out. They just don't. Maybe their opinions would match the enthusiasts, maybe they wouldn't. But never judge a ride by a rating.

Gwazi is nearly universally known as an awful wooden roller. Myself and my party loved it, with one assigning it as his number one ride of all time. I've heard similar things from people here, who heard nothing but hate from fellow enthusiasts, and found the ride to be a lot of fun.

I'm not saying Son of Beast is the best or the worst or anywhere in between, just that no ride can ever be fully understood by a ranking based only on the opinions of a minority of visitors. To do so would be silly. It would be about as representative of the ride's popularity as polling only 34 year old Hispanic males exiting the ride - it's a random, arbitrary group whose opinion is being shared, and certainly not representative of the ride's real patrons.

[ahank]

Here's my ten cents;

I like the ride; if the general public, however, does NOT approve of the ride and the ride IS causing injury to guests (even though they may have previous conditions), the ride will be either removed or completely re-done to the point where it not the same ride anymore.

As goodyellowkorn said, 98% of the people who visit Kings Island on a daily basis are ordinary people; people who don't visit KICentral, people who don't look at Mitch Hawker's coaster poll. So if the park IS looking for people's opinions on the ride, they are going to look at the general public for these opinions, not us. The general public is what rolls in the nickels.

In no way am I agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here. But, if you are going to look at this from a logical, rational standpoint, this is what Kings Island is going to look at.

[Browntggrr]

^ Good point, only one big reported accident. Again one person complaining is not an accident, or having problems after ignoring a doctor and/or warning signs about preexisting conditions.

An injury is not a complaint.

And how can you possibly make the statement that just because a person was injured on SoB, they ignored a doctor and/ or warning signs about a prexisting injury?

SoB is much rougher than other coasters. If a person has been on numerous coasters, and had no problems, than rides SoB and has issues due to a unknown prexisting condition it is the riders fault?

This horse has been dead since July '09. It is about time some people stop beating it, and take SoB for what it is.

[RingMaster]

This horse has been dead since July '09. It is about time some people stop beating it, and take SoB for what it is.

No, the horse died July '06 when its legs broke from having too much weight on it while galloping at 80 miles an hour, and people kept beating it when they tied strings to its legs and pranced around the place like a marionette saying it was fine when it really wasn't and just kept inching closer to the deep end psychologically-speaking.

....yeah, okay, that was a REALLY drawn out attempt at a Sonny joke.

[coaster_junky]

^ Good point, only one big reported accident. Again one person complaining is not an accident, or having problems after ignoring a doctor and/or warning signs about preexisting conditions.

SoB is much rougher than other coasters. If a person has been on numerous coasters, and had no problems, than rides SoB and has issues due to a unknown prexisting condition it is the riders fault?

the thing is, there is no proof that Son of Beast caused the problem, just going by her word. the truth might have been she hit her head on the otsr while riding Invertigo or Vortex, and didn't realize it until later.

blaming the injury on Son of Beast isn't fair, especially when the ride cannot be proven at fault.

[Captain Picard]

Why is it closed if there is no problem? If having it closed don't give you a clue just wait till removal for your proof.

[GrandsonofBeast]

^ Good point, only one big reported accident. Again one person complaining is not an accident, or having problems after ignoring a doctor and/or warning signs about preexisting conditions.

SoB is much rougher than other coasters. If a person has been on numerous coasters, and had no problems, than rides SoB and has issues due to a unknown prexisting condition it is the riders fault?

the thing is, there is no proof that Son of Beast caused the problem, just going by her word. the truth might have been she hit her head on the otsr while riding Invertigo or Vortex, and didn't realize it until later.

blaming the injury on Son of Beast isn't fair, especially when the ride cannot be proven at fault.

I actually agree with that, a lot. I have a HUGE bruise on the inside of my left knee from this past weekend at KI. I can't even tell you which ride it's from. Had I ridden an extremely bumpy ride like SoB is (was?) I would just naturally blame it since it stands alone as the roughest.

That's where my agreement ends though, there is something more wrong with SoB than just this one lady. Heck, a man died shortly after getting off of Firehawk and it is running fine now.

[Fear the Four]

man died shortly after getting off of Firehawk and it is running fine now.

The ride Had nothing to do with his death. Wasnt he revived later afterwards? He had a heart attack when he sat down I believe and the ride was opened later the next day.

[bkroz]

No, he was not revived. And you'll notice that Son of Beast has officially had nothing to do with the injuries suffered on it besides the 2006 incident (which, granted, is a big deal). If even one death had been the fault of the ride, don't you think it would've closed immediately after, as Firehawk did? And GrandsonOfBeast makes a valid point - if you end up with a sore back at the end of the day, and you rode Son of Beast, you may immediately attribute your pain to the ride just because of word of mouth or the ride's roughness.

I'm certainly not Son of Beast's biggest fan or champion, but the way enthusiasts bash it is really and honestly undeserved. It is too rough, and perhaps even rougher than you'd expect for the tallest and fastest wooden coaster on Earth - but it's not the worst thing to happen to the amusement park world, or (arguably) even to Kings Island. Not even top (bottom?) ten of the worst.

[Browntggrr]

the thing is, there is no proof that Son of Beast caused the problem, just going by her word. the truth might have been she hit her head on the otsr while riding Invertigo or Vortex, and didn't realize it until later.

blaming the injury on Son of Beast isn't fair, especially when the ride cannot be proven at fault.

While your comment is fair, that was not the point in the discussion or my quote.

If a rider has been on other coasters, then rides SoB and has issues, how can it be assumed that the rider ignored a doctor/ warning signs about pre-existing injuries?

That being said, will anyone here ever believe that a person was actually injured at KI under any circumstances other than a broken sternum?

If a guest came off a ride complaining of an injury; some will say that it is a set-up and the person was already injured prior to riding.

-or-

A rider has an injury, believes it to be a minor problem, and the next day the injury becomes a major problem; some will say the guest should have notified the park at the time of the injury.

-or-

Since some are in denial and do not believe that any ride could have caused the injury, keep all the rides operating since the injury cannot be pin pointed.

Mind you, prior to SoB, KI had a VERY good track record when it comes down to injuries, and have always gone above and beyond for inspections when similar rides at other parks have had issues.

[coaster_junky]

SoB is much rougher than other coasters. If a person has been on numerous coasters, and had no problems, than rides SoB and has issues due to a unknown prexisting condition it is the riders fault?

i was going by what i have in bold, for all we know, she could have gotten the injury while riding another ride, for example Vortex, and while riding that ride, she hit her head really hard against one of the otsr. that could have very well caused the burst blood vessel, and she could have not payed any attention to it until after she rode Son of Beast (once again, not Son of Beast fault).

she also could have very well did it while at home during the few days between the day at the park and when she went to the doctor, and since she didn't see it being a possiblility for it to have occured at her home, she blamed it on the next best thing (Son of Beast).

*i am not saying that this is what really happened, i'm just using this as an example.

[shark6495]

coaster junky anything could have happened but the park thought it could have been SOB's fault as well......

[DropZone99]

Well, calling SoB an engineering marvel is a bit of an oxymoron, considering that it has had design defects which contributed to the original accident. And it wouldn`t be in the situation it is presently in if it was an engineering marvel.

Son of Beast is an engineering marvel. Your an architect (well might be after college), just think if you built the tallest building ever built using wood. The building would be pretty big, but being made of wood it would need tons of maintenance. Many people think the building is ugly, or it can't support all the weight and only a certain amount of people can be on it (or some other flaw). Eventually an important piece of wood cracks making the building dangerous to be in. Don't you think it would still be an engineering marvel even though it ended up failing?

[shark6495]

Well, calling SoB an engineering marvel is a bit of an oxymoron, considering that it has had design defects which contributed to the original accident. And it wouldn`t be in the situation it is presently in if it was an engineering marvel.

Son of Beast is an engineering marvel. Your an architect (well might be after college), just think if you built the tallest building ever built using wood. The building would be pretty big, but being made of wood it would need tons of maintenance. Many people think the building is ugly, or it can't support all the weight and only a certain amount of people can be on it (or some other flaw). Eventually an important piece of wood cracks making the building dangerous to be in. Don't you think it would still be an engineering marvel even though it ended up failing?

you have a point, but many would consider a marvel to be something that has stood the test of time. Has been able to stay standing even though it should have collapsed, or been unsafe. I wouldnt nominate SOB as an engineering marvel, but I wouldnt say it was an engineering mistake. Instead look at it like the first test run of wooden superstructures. The Beast would be a marvel because it was so long and it has stood the tests of time.

http://www.impactlab.com/2008/09/08/20-modern-engineering-marvels/

however these are modern marvels..... Kingda Ka made the list.

[bkroz]

I was flipped through the channels and saw Son of Beast on Discovery Channel's MEGASTRUCTURES special. My friend cracked up, because Discovery Channel was so blurry and so fuzzy and static-y, but as SOON as she flipped through it I screamed "Son of Beast GO BACK." While that special my incorrectly show a loop, Premier trains, and human beings riding it, it still deserves its spot in the top 10 Megastructures. Easily.

[Beast1979]

The ride flippin collapsed during construction. Engineering Marvel? Don't kid yourself. Megastructure? That it deserves.