Kings Island's potential

[Shaggy]

Thank you! I completely agree I am too tired of the carousel looking this way. Especially the organ, the carousel horses defidently are not properly painted...

Who the heck are you thanking?

If you meant me, I was DISAGREEING with you.

[cholderfield]

It's based on attendance growth.

Wonderland continues to see attendance growth, while KI and CP have seen drops in attendance. Wonderland is the gem out of the bunch, at this point. Kinzel has even said so on the quarterly calls. Another park sneaking up in the ranks is Carowinds.

I wouldn't turn my nose up at KD either. Nothing special? I bet those that have grown up with it, as you have KI, would disagree. For all intents and purposes, KD's overall ride selection is better than KI's at this point. (My opinion, of course.) But as far as KD's history, well it's only 2 years younger than KI (or 3... depending upon whether you count the "soft" opening in 1974.)

Shaggy

While I understand attendance has continued to decline at KI since the mid-to-late 90's, maybe somebody should take a look and figure out why that's happening...

[Shaggy]

It's based on attendance growth.

Wonderland continues to see attendance growth, while KI and CP have seen drops in attendance. Wonderland is the gem out of the bunch, at this point. Kinzel has even said so on the quarterly calls. Another park sneaking up in the ranks is Carowinds.

I wouldn't turn my nose up at KD either. Nothing special? I bet those that have grown up with it, as you have KI, would disagree. For all intents and purposes, KD's overall ride selection is better than KI's at this point. (My opinion, of course.) But as far as KD's history, well it's only 2 years younger than KI (or 3... depending upon whether you count the "soft" opening in 1974.)

Shaggy

While I understand attendance has continued to decline at KI since the mid-to-late 90's, maybe somebody should take a look and figure out why that's happening...

For the entertainment industry, it's been a long economic downturn, not simply a result of the recession the US has felt in the last 4 years.

Theatre, tourist destinations etc have all been hit hard and have seen a long, drawn out dip in attendance beginning around 7-8 years ago.

When finances become tight, the first expenditure people slash is entertainment budget. So the ones that feel it first, hardest and longest are entertainment venues.

However, many parks are sucessfully instituting marketing initiatives based on "staycations." They are concentrating on drawing from locals, rather than out-of-state travelers. That's the current hot draw. I'm not sure how KI is marketing to Cincy locals.

Shaggy

[lebeau]

When finances become tight, the first expenditure people slash is entertainment budget. So the ones that feel it first, hardest and longest are entertainment venues.

You would think this would be true. But it's actually not. The movies were a thriving business during the Great Depression. And while this summer has been a down one for the movies, they have done very well during the recession.

No doubt travel budgets have been slashed though. I would imagine theme parks are less elastic than movies.

[Shaggy]

When finances become tight, the first expenditure people slash is entertainment budget. So the ones that feel it first, hardest and longest are entertainment venues.

You would think this would be true. But it's actually not. The movies were a thriving business during the Great Depression. And while this summer has been a down one for the movies, they have done very well during the recession.

No doubt travel budgets have been slashed though. I would imagine theme parks are less elastic than movies.

Movies are, IMO, percieved as a much more "economical" form of entertainment. They also are heavily patronized by teens.

Trust me when I say that most forms of entertainment are suffering from huge drops in attendance.

Shaggy

[HTCO]

...Theatre, tourist destinations etc have all been hit hard and have seen a long, drawn out dip in attendance beginning around 7-8 years ago.

When finances become tight, the first expenditure people slash is entertainment budget. So the ones that feel it first, hardest and longest are entertainment venues...

Agree, Agree, Agree, Agree, and Agree again!!

[shark6495]

When finances become tight, the first expenditure people slash is entertainment budget. So the ones that feel it first, hardest and longest are entertainment venues.

You would think this would be true. But it's actually not. The movies were a thriving business during the Great Depression. And while this summer has been a down one for the movies, they have done very well during the recession.

No doubt travel budgets have been slashed though. I would imagine theme parks are less elastic than movies.

Entertainment does not just include movies. There are theater shows (on broadway, off broadway, traveling shows), opera, orchestra, ballet, etc. Plus as shaggy said movies are a cheap entertainment. Well cheap is not the word these days, a family of four is 40 bucks, while a dvd is 18......

Back to KI

Let me warn whoever reads the following statements that this is my opinion from a different stance.

KI will probably be sold off but not in its current state. If Cedar Fair continues to try and recoup their lost monies, look for it in many ways. Parks that have extra land that can be sold off may be sold off. As the parks are being put up for auction or sale CF may begin to cannibalize their other parks. Correct me if I am wrong but this is one of the few times, if ever, that a company that started off with 1 main park has ballooned into a multipark group. So as they shrink they will take some of the better rides from other parks while shipping off the less great rides from their home park.

What does that mean for KI? well maybe a reduction in all of that open land, it could be a dismantling of a ride or two. If the time comes for CF to sell KI they will not let it be sold to become a competitor to their home park.

Maybe I just like conspiracy theories but for KI to be sold off, CF will probably do their best to keep it from competiting against them....

I would have to think though KI would be a park other buyers would want......

[Pillsberry123]

Compare Kings Island 2010 to 2005. THAT was a better year. Plus Paramount put a little bit different coasters in the park. Cedar Fair does the same thing over and over again. The Diamondback is just like Goliath at Six Flags over Georgia.

You do realize that what was Italian Job Stunt Track is a clone, there's an exact same ride at Kings Dominion and Canada's Wonderland? And Paramount also put in Face/Off, which is a standard model of which there have been many others. Oh, and Flight of Fear is a standard Mad Cobra from Premier, one of many.

So what are you trying to prove that Diamondback is just like Goliath? Paramount did the exact same thing.

Not to mention Nickelodeon Universe with Runaway Reptar and Drop Zone. Heck, they even installed Vortex (Canada's Wonderland) and Top Gun around the same time. I believe Tomb Raider was installed in several of their parks... The only original coaster or thrill ride that Paramount put in was Son of Beast, and that went over well.

Cedar Fair may stick to several types of models, but they keep a valid rotation. If a park doesn't have a hyper coaster, they install one (Carowinds). If the park already has a hyper coaster, they install a GCI Woodie (ValleyFair and Worlds of Fun). All are valid upgrades, and Cedar Fair rarely (if ever) installs clones throughout their chain. Six Flags and Paramount can't say the same.

[lebeau]

When finances become tight, the first expenditure people slash is entertainment budget. So the ones that feel it first, hardest and longest are entertainment venues.

You would think this would be true. But it's actually not. The movies were a thriving business during the Great Depression. And while this summer has been a down one for the movies, they have done very well during the recession.

No doubt travel budgets have been slashed though. I would imagine theme parks are less elastic than movies.

Movies are, IMO, percieved as a much more "economical" form of entertainment. They also are heavily patronized by teens.

Trust me when I say that most forms of entertainment are suffering from huge drops in attendance.

Shaggy

That's fair.

[Jasper]

Thank you! I completely agree I am too tired of the carousel looking this way. Especially the organ, the carousel horses defidently are not properly painted...

Who the heck are you thanking?

If you meant me, I was DISAGREEING with you.

Shaggy, I was wondering the same exact thing.

[Guest Millennium]

The park was never perfect. With Paramount, we would have gotten more theming, and have the Crypt still fun.. and with CF we get Diamondback, a whole new look of Rivertown, and a cleaner park imo. So it evens out..

[coaster_junky]

with paramount we would no longer have what is now known as the x-base area, we would have never gotten Firehawk, and would have lost Flight of Fear.

[Diamondback96]

with paramount we would no longer have what is now known as the x-base area, we would have never gotten Firehawk, and would have lost Flight of Fear.

I think you mean CBS.

[The Interpreter]

Nah, if CBS still owned the park, the sign outside would probably say:

CLOSED FOR THE SEASON

And the bigwigs would be thinking of all the money they were saving in operation and maintenance expenses!

[Pagoda Gift Shop]

Speaking of attendance, Ohio isn't exactly the best place to be during an economic downturn, especially one that has hit the auto industry hard. However, the big number I always heard tossed around was the amount of season pass sales they did/do at Kings Island. At various times, I've heard that they are off the chart numbers. That and comp tickets (which CF nixed quickly and wisely) were the 2 biggies I always heard about KI.

In terms of national attention, KI hasn't had a marquee attraction since Son of Beast. That is, if you don't count the whole Steve McNair Halloween Haunt fiasco.

[shark6495]

but to be fair what other regional parks have had national attention for a ride? I305 was big in the realm of people who follow parks closely but to the casual observer no one would know.....

[Cormaster]

I just wanna voice my opinion, and honestly I think Cedar Fair is screwing up a bit with Kings Island. Yeah we got Firehawk and Diamondback, but like others have said, the park has lot a lost of its magic, and honestly the theming was so much better under paramount. I kinda see Planet Snoopy as the "cheap way out" of the kids area. I see Planet Snoopy as a major fail too, as Nickolodeon Universe was really incredible walking into, and a true heaven for kids. I'm sorry but how many kids these days even know much about Snoopy? Now I think no doubt Disney is 1st and Nickoloden is second but obviously there's a huge elephant in the room when it comes to getting a disney license so Nick was the next best thing. I doubt they'll win many more golden tickets, and I for one can say the kids area is not near as impressive.

Theming in general just sucks for Cedar Fair. I think of the quick removal of names and the absoloute raping of Tomb Raider the Ride. Its obvious they came up with this stuff in an hour long board meeting and no thought went into the new names or theming. And when the Son of Beast broke down CF gave it a quick fix and now the only thing on the horizen for the ride is demolition. Now don't get me wrong I'm not going to defend the Paramount era completely either. Paramount was great at first but its last 5 years of ownership quite frankly sucked. But CF was the wrong owner for the park.

[Dvo]

I just wanna voice my opinion, and honestly I think Cedar Fair is screwing up a bit with Kings Island. Yeah we got Firehawk and Diamondback, but like others have said, the park has lot a lost of its magic, and honestly the theming was so much better under paramount.

Really? You mean like that concrete paradise they put in, known as Action Zone? I think the Paramount acquisition was the beginning of the end for theming and it never really came back. Don't get me wrong, KI is still a very beautiful park relative to many others. But after going to parks like Knott's, Busch Gardens Williamsburg, and Disney, you get a big reality check.

I think KI has a good blend of thrills and theming, but they could certainly improve on it.

[Purplehaze]

Um Action Zone was put in under Paramount.

For instance the water tower right in the middle of Action Zone was actually put there for a live action show. The show was horrible and discontinued before it even got started. So now it just sits there doing nothing and not looking so great.

[coaster_junky]

^that's what dvo said.

[RingMaster]

I just wanna voice my opinion, and honestly I think Cedar Fair is screwing up a bit with Kings Island. Yeah we got Firehawk and Diamondback, but like others have said, the park has lot a lost of its magic, and honestly the theming was so much better under paramount.

Really? You mean like that concrete paradise they put in, known as Action Zone? I think the Paramount acquisition was the beginning of the end for theming and it never really came back. Don't get me wrong, KI is still a very beautiful park relative to many others. But after going to parks like Knott's, Busch Gardens Williamsburg, and Disney, you get a big reality check.

I think KI has a good blend of thrills and theming, but they could certainly improve on it.

And considering Knott's is in the same company that Kings Island is, you would expect more of what KBF does theme-wise to be peppered throughout the rest of the chain. Instead, we got every Halloween event (save for Cedar Point, not surprisingly) renamed to the Haunt but has almost none of the charm or creativity that the original has (and worse, using shock value to try to get national recognition, like Pagoda said with Steve McNair and the skeleton display). And add to it that even Knott's Berry Farm is starting to feel the relapse of Cedar Fair's rule as scenery and thematic areas are being bulldozed over to make way for big thrill rides to compete with other amusement parks (see Xcelerator and Silver Bullet as examples).

But they are making good strides in making the park look nice in some aspects. I really like the new pavers in International Street and hope that they git rid of ALL of the blacktop paths in the near future, and I thought Planet Snoopy was really well done and looks a heck of a lot better than Nick Universe did. It's just that I wish they spent more on making the park look BEAUTIFUL instead of just nice, and work on bringing the CREATIVE aspects of Knott's Halloween Haunt to ours, instead of spending money on flat-screen TVs as menu boards and venue set pieces, or splashing bathtubs of blood onto a maze and trying to make it "edgier and more mature than before".

[CedarPointer]

That and comp tickets (which CF nixed quickly and wisely)

Excuse me? "wisely"?