Knott`s Berry Coaster Accident

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

http://themeparkcent...theme-park-news

I pray everyone is alright.

[bkroz]

Sources are saying that two trains collided on Pony Express, and that some of the guests are being transported to the hospital. Doesn't sound too serious, but much remains to be seen...

EDIT:

More: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201010/2140/

According to Theme Park Insider, one train failed to launch quickly enough, and experienced a roll-back into the station where another train was already placed. The site also claims (and I have no idea) that [this particular?] Zamperla Motocoaster did not have an antirollback device in case of incorrect launches. I can't imagine that being the case... Why would anyone manufacture a ride in such a way? Regardless, I think it's safe to say we're all hoping for the best...

[Guest rcfreak339]

Dang, What coaster is that?

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

http://rcdb.com/4089.htm

Pony Exprress

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

Here more info kind of

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/10/about-10-people-injured-at-knotts-berry-farm-roller-coaster-accident.html

[Browntggrr]

He says two rollercoaster cars collided in the station where park guests board the ride. Nine people on the cars and one person who was waiting nearby were injured.

http://www.waow.com/Global/story.asp?S=13289580

[Browntggrr]

Pony Express POV with great video of the load/ unload station.

[pbkigi]

Hopefully everyone turns out to be O.K.

[Snowman]

This is horrible. Best wishes to everyone involved, and hopes to a speedy recovery from any injuries.

Can anyone help me understand how a coaster that was opened in 2008 not have an anti-rollback safety feature? I'm really confused.

What other coasters don't have a safety feature to prevent trains from colliding? I've seen Top Thrill roll back, but it was safely stopped well before it got back to the station.

I understand about chain dogs(and love that sound) but what do these launchers use to prevent this? What would stop Flight of Fear or Stunt Coaster from rolling back from a failed launch?

[Cody]

This is horrible. Best wishes to everyone involved, and hopes to a speedy recovery from any injuries.

Can anyone help me understand how a coaster that was opened in 2008 not have an anti-rollback safety feature? I'm really confused.

What other coasters don't have a safety feature to prevent trains from colliding? I've seen Top Thrill roll back, but it was safely stopped well before it got back to the station.

I understand about chain dogs(and love that sound) but what do these launchers use to prevent this? What would stop Flight of Fear or Stunt Coaster from rolling back from a failed launch?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure that FOF and SC both have anti-roll back brakes, Both FOF and SC have had rollbacks and they were safely stopped.

[Jamesv7]

I would say they have to because of our temperature changes.

[ChazyG]

I know i have heard ride opps talking about BLSC rollbacks. and them having to push the ride back to the launch position on this forum somwhere...

http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20864&hl=%20blsc%20%20roll%20%20back&st=0

[Snowman]

Are these Roll back brakes automatically engaged or does a ride op control them?

Thanks to everyone for the education.

I'm just trying to get my head around how this horrible accident could happen.

[Cody]

Are these Roll back brakes automatically engaged or does a ride op control them?

Thanks to everyone for the education.

I'm just trying to get my head around how this horrible accident could happen.

Its actually pretty simple on what happened.

The ride didn't gain enough speed, started rolling back.

The ride has no anti-roll back brakes/fins(according to some articles)

The ride therefor went back into the station and collided with another train.

The ride op NEVER has control of anti-roll back devices on launch coasters(meaning they can't turn them on or off)

[bkroz]

From what I've gathered and observed (this may be completely wrong, so feel free to correct), the roll-back system is engaged when the launch is. On the Backlot Stunt Coaster, for example, it's the brakes that you can hear and see opening just before the launch. First the one right in front of the launch area opens, then each successive one opens all the way down the launch track. Once all are open, the train proceeds forward and launches, and each one closes after the train passes, sort of giving the illusion of the brakes "chasing" after the car. According to what others have said, it's those brakes that would cause friction during a roll-back, and bring the train to a (probably rapid) stop.

On Top Thrill Dragster, it's the same idea, but instead of opening-and-closing friction brakes, it's magnetic brakes - the black fins along the launch track. Basically with those, they do the same thing. They all lower into the track at once before a launch and then rise up after the train, again chasing it down the launch track. But since those are magnetic brakes, I imagine that what happens is that if the train rolls back, it is gradually, carefully slowed by the brake fins until it arrives back at the launch zone, where a friction brake or some other form of contacting brake can bring it to a full stop.

After having seen the complex, at-least-fifty-button control panel for Top Thrill Dragster, I was told that roll-backs on that particular ride are what operators fear most, because they require that almost every single button be pushed or switched in one way or another just to then bring the train back to the station. Don't know how true it is, but it sounds about right to me...

Perhaps not having a roll-back device is a Zamperla thing, as every roller coaster I've ever seen has one form or another, including Premier, B&M, Intamin, etc... Do their spiral-lift flying coasters have an anti-rollback? I don't think so... Kind of scary when you think about it... Maybe this accident will prompt change in that.

[MarketingExpress]

^Close, but a few details are off...

Yes, before a launch on BLSC the brakes open one by one however it starts with the furthest one from the station, not the closest, and works it's way back. The last brake opens just before the launch. Once the train has cleared the last brake, all of the brakes close together and will easily stop the train in the event of a roll back well before the train reaches the station.

Once the train has been cuaght, it must be manually pushed back to the station into the launch position (something I have done many a time).

[TylerRider]

By looking at a Pony pov, it has a anti rollback system.

[Browntggrr]

There is a possibility that the initial report that the train being launched rolled backward into the station train is incorrect.

It could be that the train being launched never rolled far enough forward, and the train entering the station rear-ended it.

[wildcat22]

First off, I hope no one is seriously injured. Secondly, as an afterthought if this wasn't serious, I hope there isn't a Cedar Fair knee jerk reaction like the rain collision from a few years ago.

[bkroz]

First off, I hope no one is seriously injured. Secondly, as an afterthought if this wasn't serious, I hope there isn't a Cedar Fair knee jerk reaction like the rain collision from a few years ago.

What more they could do to limit park operations, I don't know... No glasses, one train in the rain, no carry-ons, $2.00 mandated lockers... I suppose maybe every single ride in the park could run only one train, maybe with only one rider on at a time? And the rider must wear a helmet and knee pads.

[RingMaster]

Well, considering the incident that happened with Xcelerator was just over a year ago, I'm surprised they haven't closed every coaster in the park yet after this situation with Pony Express.

[The Interpreter]

What more they could do to limit park operations, I don't know... No glasses, one train in the rain, no carry-ons, $2.00 mandated lockers... I suppose maybe every single ride in the park could run only one train, maybe with only one rider on at a time? And the rider must wear a helmet and knee pads.

I remember enthusiasts guffawing when Cedar Point put in the optional, use them if you want to, seat belts on the Blue Streak....I remember Cedar Point enthusiasts, including a very well known one known for his knowledge of ride mechanics and safety, making fun of the ride gates at Kings Island, since Cedar Point had open lanes with a yellow line riders were to stay behind until boarding. This wasn't forty years ago, but more like 15 to 20.

There is a fine line between necessary safety and ridiculous overuse of safety devices/methods. I often wonder if in today's environment, motorcycles, bicycles and convertibles would be allowed, if they were new inventions. Same for sugar... I think all four of these things would be viewed as posing unacceptable risks.

The no glasses thing already exists at Knott's....at least we know that eyewear is very unlikely to have caused the Knott's Berry Farm coaster incident this thread is about...

From seat dividers to seat belts, individually ratcheting lap bars and ride lane gates to automagically controlled brakes without contemporaneous human intervention, there are many safety measures in effect now that either didn't exist at the time individual coasters were built or were considered unnecessary, uneconomic or negatively affecting capacity.

As for no carry-ons and mandated lockers, Six Flags has already implemented that (but oddly allows flip-flops to be worn into B & M coaster stations but left on the station platform while Kings Island requires riders to keep them on...)

I often wonder what additional safety procedures will be implemented in the next forty years or so, how they will affect safety, economics and the ride experience. I continue to be stunned when I look back and see the open coaster trains that commonly ran on many coasters in the 1920's, with no restraint system whatsoever, just a deeply padded leather bench with no lap bar, a large open space to contain what was often a very well dressed couple, he in a suit and tie and her in a long dress and sometimes clutching a fancy hat.

[Dieseltech20]

A few nights ago I watched the movie Rollercoaster from 1977. Was amazing to see the looping coaster with just a lap bar. While I know that the forces would keep you in the car while it looped it was still a shock because no one would even THINK about that setup on a looper nowadays.

[bkroz]

A few nights ago I watched the movie Rollercoaster from 1977. Was amazing to see the looping coaster with just a lap bar. While I know that the forces would keep you in the car while it looped it was still a shock because no one would even THINK about that setup on a looper nowadays.

Except, of course, Son of Beast, which featured only a lap bar when it used to have a loop... And honestly, thank God... Imagine it with over-the-shoulder restraints... Yikes. And of course, Flight of Fear, which only has lap bars, despite going upside down four times (though in all fairness to your point, none of those times are vertical loops).

But that being said, I definitely understand what you mean. I don't understand why over-the-shoulder restraints are deemed necessary for 95% of looping coasters. If I had my way, my first change would be to find a way to have inverted coasters feature only a lap bar by some monstrous device that came down from above to cinch you in. Having a well-designed lap bar restraint instead of an over-the-shoulder one clearly doesn't compromise safety because if it did, Premier wouldn't have overseen the change in their trains for Flight of Fear. Not to mention I feel pretty sure that of all people, Cedar Fair certainly wouldn't run anything with questionable safety... Right?

[The Interpreter]

Dare Devil Dive at Six Flags Over Georgia will have three inversions. It reportedly will not have over the shoulder restraints.

And for years, Mr. Schwarzkopf designed many steel coasters with loops and no over the shoulder restraints (or seatbelts). One of them, now with seatbelts I seem to recall, runs in that very same park today.

[Dieseltech20]

Never visited the park while SOB was running and din't know it only looped with an LB and forgot about FoF.

I wish none of them had OTSR cause I'm not a fan of them at all.

[ziplock]

Shockwave at SFOT only has a lap bar restraint. In fact I'm on my way to ride it right now.

[Rustbucket]

Pony Express does have the brake for rollbacks. The launch is outside of the station. I have seen a rollback on this coaster.

I hope that no one is seriously injured...

[KI Kevin]

Hm...funny that such a tame ride could injure someone. Sad.

Hope everyone's okay

[pkiboy]

Pony Express does have the brake for rollbacks. The launch is outside of the station. I have seen a rollback on this coaster.

I hope that no one is seriously injured...

You should see what happens when Kingda Ka rollsback people actually leave the station. I guess New Jersey people have a differet vibe than the ride in Sandusky. Cuse you don't hear AWWWWW when KA rollsback its just a different Vibe.