Ark Bible Park In Kentucky?

[coaster_junky]

http://www.kypost.com/dpps/news/local_news/theme-park-planned-for-n.-ky.%3F_5541466

here's an article about the park from kypost, and at the beginning, strangely enough, my hometown has something in the works.

[Diamondback96]

Oddly, the article appears for about 2 seconds for me, and then an error message comes up.

Edit: Never mind, it's fixed now

[TylerRider]

Call me a pessimist, but I doubt this will ever see the light of day. Is the museum doing that well financially that the people behind it can raise $150 million in this economy when Ed Hart can't raise $50 for a shuttered park? If they had $150 million, is this really the outlet they are looking for to spend it?

I'm not sure what the right model is to build a new park in 2010 - maybe I'll be proven wrong and we'll find out, but I'm not betting on this.

Ed Hart only needs $50 to open the park. I could open the Park!

[The Interpreter]

Governor Beshear To Announce Northern Kentucky Theme Park:

Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear has planned a press conference for Wednesday to officially announce a new Noah's Ark-themed amusement park in Northern Kentucky.

The Business Courier reported Nov. 18 that plans were in the works for a project in Grant County near Williamstown, Ky., halfway between Cincinnati and Lexington. Read that story here.

...

http://www.bizjourna...du&ana=e_du_pub

(And, apparently without public funding....somehow I see this as making the Kentucky Kingdom public financing even less likely...)

[RailRider]

I will put this in the same category of the WV Highlands park, until it breaks ground and even then success is not guranteed. See Hard Rock Park...

[The Interpreter]

And how would you compare its prospects to those of Kentucky Kingdom, which no bank has agreed to finance?

[RailRider]

Same category till it reopens I won't believe it. The economic environment is not favorable for new parks to open or established parks to reopen.

[coaster_junky]

well, i've got to say this, if it does become a reality and prospers. i'm proud to say that i'll be able to see it from my grandma's house. and, from my house, be able to get to the park in about 8 minutes.

[CoastersRZ]

Another article, this time from Cincinnati.com: http://nky.cincinnat...S0103/311300043

Notice, in particular, this line from the article:

Beshear's participation in the announcement suggests state incentives for the project may be included.

The article I linked to also stated a $24.5 million cost. You can`t build much theme park for that small figure. Diamondback cost $22 million.

[The Interpreter]

If that is the case, how can they possibly tell Mr. Hart no over in Jefferson County?

And next time Beech Bend wants a ride, they should line up at the public financing trough as well...right?

[RailRider]

Teryp I agree regarding the public funding. How and when do you say no to an established park?

Also what about the fact the state would be sponsoring a religious ideaology if they provided funding for this park? Seems to murky the seperation of church and state waters.

[CoastersRZ]

http://nky.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20101201/NEWS0103/312010046/Creation-Museum-seeking-tax-breaks-for-theme-park-

Notable from the article is this portion:

Developers are seeking state tax incentives under the Kentucky Tourism Development Act. If they qualify — and Beshear indicated they would — they could receive as much as $37.5 million in incentives.

Under the law, developers can recover up to 25 percent of the cost of a project. The state returns to developers the sales tax paid by visitors on admission tickets, food, gift sales and lodging costs. Developers have 10 years to reach the 25 percent threshold.

So, the state is willing to support this project, but is unwilling to help support Kentucky Kingdom? Makes my head hurt. Definitely read the article as it is a very interesting read.

[Vortex]

Will the park have any rides or just some animals and a 5d movie?

[KIfan1980]

http://nky.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20101201/NEWS0103/312010046/Creation-Museum-seeking-tax-breaks-for-theme-park-

Notable from the article is this portion:

Developers are seeking state tax incentives under the Kentucky Tourism Development Act. If they qualify — and Beshear indicated they would — they could receive as much as $37.5 million in incentives.

Under the law, developers can recover up to 25 percent of the cost of a project. The state returns to developers the sales tax paid by visitors on admission tickets, food, gift sales and lodging costs. Developers have 10 years to reach the 25 percent threshold.

So, the state is willing to support this project, but is unwilling to help support Kentucky Kingdom? Makes my head hurt. Definitely read the article as it is a very interesting read.

There is a HUGE difference between state incentives for economic investment in an area/region and state funding of economic investment in an area. If this group raises and spends $150 million, and the state incents them to bring those jobs/investment to the region (versus them building in Indiana as an alternative), that is considered normal business. I'd also be willing to bet that those incentives are over many years. Fronting the investment money is a very different and not normal activity. If Ed comes up with the $50 million on his own, he'd also likely be able to get the same incentives.

[PREMiERdrum]

A large Ark was an early proposal for the entrance to Disney's Animal Kingdom. The artwork was beautiful, but the concept was scrapped due to the obvious religious overtones.

[The Interpreter]

World's Largest Religious Amusement Park Will Be Green:

http://www.mnn.com/e...k-will-be-green

VERY interesting article...includes video...

See also:

http://www.care2.com/causes/civil-rights/blog/kentucky-tax-dollars-may-go-to-creationist-theme-park/

[The Interpreter]

Beshear Sails Risky Waters For Ark Park [Editorial]:

...Phil Moffett, a Louisville businessman seeking the GOP nomination, criticized the plan saying, "It isn't an issue of religion at all; it's an issue of taxing everyone too much so politicians can spread the money around when it suits their political agendas."

Call it what you want — Ark Encounter, as the developers plan, or Six Flags over Mount Ararat. But among some who don't buy the biblical theory of creationism, the idea of an ark project and the state's involvement in it have sunk like a lead boat.

Some have questioned whether the state can legally offer the incentives, which would basically be a refund of sales taxes collected on tickets, food and other items sold at the park....

If there is a constitutional problem with the incentives, the problem may be more with the Kentucky Constitution, which says no one should be "compelled to attend any place of worship, to contribute to the erection or maintenance of any such place, or to the salary or support of any minister of religion."

But the biggest question politically is whether Beshear is harming or helping his re-election chances by standing up with the Answers in Genesis people....

http://www.courier-j...rs+for+ark+park

This deserves a full reading (don't miss both pages of the two page article on the net).

I don't see how the Governor can possibly support this without also supporting the Kentucky Kingdom bond issue. But, we shall see...

[Truth Seeker]

In response I'm going to extend Kentucky's gambling operations by betting that Beshar will not be governor in 2012.

[RailRider]

Looks like my earlier arguement of seperation of church and state is coming up. ABC news has now ran with this story. Interesting article and news cast video to acompany.

ABC News

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

I just had this thought and question.

Holiday World has a huge Christian fanbase, Pat Koch, Holiday Worlds Director of Values, is also a minister. So could this new Christian theme park try and "compete" with Holiday World?

[The Interpreter]

Ark Park Gets Preliminary Approval From State Tourism Board:

...The proposed project has garnered national and international attention, with critics questioning whether granting state tax incentives to the project would violate laws separating church and state.

The Kentucky Tourism, Arts and Heritage Cabinet will employ a third-party consultant to do an independent analysis of financial projections for the park.

If the consultant finds the project won't generate enough economic activity, the board could decide against granting the full 25 percent return on the $150 million investment over 10 years. It also could decide against granting any incentives.

It will likely take about four months to complete the independent analysis, tourism officials said Monday.

Todd Cassidy, the cabinet's director of economic and community development, said the state pays no up-front money for the incentive. The state only pays money if the park meets its projections for ticket sales....

Much more at:

http://www.kentucky....ary-ok-for.html

Some of the comments are....interesting.

[CoastersRZ]

Gotta love this quote from the article:

probably will likely draw 1.6 million visitors a year[./quote] That sounds like they are really certain with those attendance figures, lol. They are prepared to sink a lot of money into this project, and that is their right. But look at the failure of Hard Rock/Freestyle Music Park. That was in a very touristy area to begin with, and had a big brand name backing, and it failed miserably (in part due to lack of marketing and advertising). This new park will have a very limited target market. I think the attendance figures quoted in that article are VERY optimistic.

Where I have an issue, is that the state of Kentucky is willing to give tax incentives to this initiative, while at the same time, they aren`t willing to give tax incentives to Mr. Hart and Kentucky Kingdom. What is the difference between the two?

And one of the comments brings up the Mark Twain quote (which it seems can`t be verified as actually being his quote), only inserts Kentucky instead of Cincinnati as being twenty years behind the times. Indeed, Twain did live in Cincinnati for a few months (and even poked fun at the Cincinnati Enquirer). Read more on Clemen`s Cincinnati ties (and what little he mentioned about the Queen City in his autobiography from this Cincinnati Enquirer article: http://cincinnati.com/blogs/ourhistory/2010/11/12/twain-left-mark-on-cincinnati/

[Dieseltech20]

What is the difference between the two?

That answer is very simple, RELIGION.

[CoastersRZ]

I wasn`t referring to religion. I was wondering why the state of Kentucky has balked at helping out Mr. Hart and Kentucky Kingdom, but is willing to give tax breaks to this park, which obviously has a much narrower target market than Kentucky Kingdom. And keep in mind that there is supposed to be separation of church and state. While they may not be blurring the lines, the fact that they are doing this for one organization that is associated with a religion, while not for another, can cause some tempers to start to flare (and likely lawsuits).

[bkroz]

Recognize, too, that the Constitution that acts as a framework for this country does not contain the phrase "separation of church and state," or any sentence like it. In fact, the term "separation of church and state" was only used in a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists Association in 1802. The first amendment to the Constitution only asserts that the United States will not establish an official religion, but makes no mention of church and state being incompatible.

Of course, many would argue that the nation's way of making absolutely sure that no religion appears officially preferred is by avoiding it altogether... Usually. I went to a Catholic high school, and the government does pay for books, Smart Boards, and other essentials that would be used in a secular school... Just not for the religion classes. We had Smart Boards for our religion classes, and they were purchased separately with money from the school.

How that interacts with this theme park idea, I can't say. But it's worth noting.

[Beast1979]

The first amendment to the Constitution only asserts that the United States will not establish an official religion, but makes no mention of church and state being incompatible.

The actual text from the first amendment is:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/about.aspx?item=about_firstamd

So in some people's opinion, giving tax breaks (A law or government act) to the Ark Park (An establishment of religion) would break that.

I'm no Constitutional Analyst so I'll let you all decide.

[The Interpreter]

And what would NOT giving tax breaks to the theme park due to its association with religion be?

Terpy, who likes to ask questions

[Beast1979]

Uhm....a lack of laws or government acts respecting it, I guess?

[Snowman]

Uhm....a lack of laws or government acts respecting it, I guess?

Off topic:

I swear I think I found the guy who stole my album collection!!

Much respect for your taste in music.

On Topic:

Think about the uproar and righteous indignation across the state of KY if a group of Muslims, Hindu's, or even Athiests bought Kentucky Kingdom and asked for some Gubment help, and got it.

There would be OUTRAGE I tell's ya.

[Outdoor Man]

With respect to the "owners" of this site I want to steer clear of the "religious" side of this topic all together- other than to say:

1) tax breaks to new businesses offering gainful employment opportunities is nothing new. If the Commonwealth of Kentucky offered tax breaks to this endeavor to kick it off and pony up a few dollars for gainful employment- separation of Church and State has nothing to do with it. Its about giving taxable benefit to an organization that will be paying FICA, and employees that will be paying their own set of taxes. It is the state government investing in itself.

2) I went to the Kentucky State Fair this past year. I can't imagine that Kentucky Kingdom would have much of a future and it wouldn't be wise for the state to roll out incentives for a park that can't expand. If you've ever been there I think you would agree that it is pretty much a textbook definition of a land-locked park. And every year in the late August/early September window most of your available parking is poached by a multi-day running fair.

And if Hindu's Muslims, etc... offered to build a complex that offered gainful employment on a scale such as above- they would be given the same tax-break consideration just as would a Honda factory offering to build a warehouse in Kentucky to employ "X" employees. Religion has nothing to do with it- it's dollars and cents in the economy.

[edited by Mr. Schrute for really bad grammar]