Big Dipper may not be "saved" after all

[Browntggrr]

In truth, her whole heart was in saving this object

While her heart may have been in it, the effort was not there.

But to sit and say she was half-hearted in her attempts to salvage this object is an insult. This may come out wrong, but I know I wasn't rallying any support for the Big Dipper at Geauga Lake and the at last check, I didn't see you starting any petition or fundraiser, let alone a plan to rescue it from the wrecking ball. Not only was her whole heart in this project, every fiber of her being thought she could save this ride, and she was doing a great thing for fans, and history buffs alike.

There was nothing insulting at all. The effort was poor, at best. Just look at the website and updates (or lack of updates). it comes off as internet spam.

Passing judgement without all the facts, to me, is one of the most deplorable actions one can take and Im not narrowing that statement to this specific case.

What judgements were passed without facts? The effort was not there, and the project failed. You can call it "passing judgement"- I call it the brutal truth based upon the facts given (or not given) by the fundraising website. If you have more "facts" that have not been released, please enlighten us.

Being an enthusiast does not entitle one for fundraising. I would not take on such a project simply because I cannot put in 100% effort due to work and family.

She had a great idea with poor planning; and because of the lack of effort, another group that may want to accomplish the same thing will be hurt due to her failure. Many people (most non-enthusiasts) will look at another "save" as another failed attempt and simply ignore it.

In a nutshell: it is too bad her efforts did not equal her intentions. If they would have, I suspect she would have raised more than $384. The fact she did not, in a society of enthusiasts, speaks volumes.

[BavarianBeatle]

In truth, her whole heart was in saving this object

While her heart may have been in it, the effort was not there.

But to sit and say she was half-hearted in her attempts to salvage this object is an insult. This may come out wrong, but I know I wasn't rallying any support for the Big Dipper at Geauga Lake and the at last check, I didn't see you starting any petition or fundraiser, let alone a plan to rescue it from the wrecking ball. Not only was her whole heart in this project, every fiber of her being thought she could save this ride, and she was doing a great thing for fans, and history buffs alike.

There was nothing insulting at all. The effort was poor, at best. Just look at the website and updates (or lack of updates). it comes off as internet spam.

Passing judgement without all the facts, to me, is one of the most deplorable actions one can take and Im not narrowing that statement to this specific case.

What judgements were passed without facts? The effort was not there, and the project failed. You can call it "passing judgement"- I call it the brutal truth based upon the facts given (or not given) by the fundraising website. If you have more "facts" that have not been released, please enlighten us.

Being an enthusiast does not entitle one for fundraising.

Where can I acquire the ability to tell how hard someone works simply by looking at their website?

[PREMiERdrum]

In truth, her whole heart was in saving this object

While her heart may have been in it, the effort was not there.

But to sit and say she was half-hearted in her attempts to salvage this object is an insult. This may come out wrong, but I know I wasn't rallying any support for the Big Dipper at Geauga Lake and the at last check, I didn't see you starting any petition or fundraiser, let alone a plan to rescue it from the wrecking ball. Not only was her whole heart in this project, every fiber of her being thought she could save this ride, and she was doing a great thing for fans, and history buffs alike.

There was nothing insulting at all. The effort was poor, at best. Just look at the website and updates (or lack of updates). it comes off as internet spam.

Passing judgement without all the facts, to me, is one of the most deplorable actions one can take and Im not narrowing that statement to this specific case.

What judgements were passed without facts? The effort was not there, and the project failed. You can call it "passing judgement"- I call it the brutal truth based upon the facts given (or not given) by the fundraising website. If you have more "facts" that have not been released, please enlighten us.

Being an enthusiast does not entitle one for fundraising.

Where can I acquire the ability to tell how hard someone works simply by looking at their website?

Perhaps not a direct reflection of how "hard" somebody works, but definitely an indicator of how seriously they take the project. And couple that with the fact that donors were not directly contacted or thanked after making their donations, and it's easy to see a lack of planning and foresight in their efforts.

Nobody is doubting their intentions. They made the classic mistake of applying emotional justification to a business decision without the necessary planning, procedures, or protocol. They claimed to own the ride when they didn't. They didn't even make the full, agreed upon, down payment.

They lost any ounce of credibility with me when they proclaimed "the ride could run today if it had power." The ride had been sitting for several years, and the trains were sitting, exposed to the elements, in the exact same spot on the midway where they were on the day of the auction.

[Browntggrr]

Where can I acquire the ability to tell how hard someone works simply by looking at their website?

Surfing the web and comparing other sites should do the trick:

http://www.google.com/

[BavarianBeatle]

Where can I acquire the ability to tell how hard someone works simply by looking at their website?

Surfing the web and comparing other sites should do the trick:

http://www.google.com/

So you are saying that she should have spent her time and effort creating a better website rather than trying to save the coaster? I don't think the donors would have appreciated that.

[TombRaiderFTW]

In truth, her whole heart was in saving this object

While her heart may have been in it, the effort was not there.

But to sit and say she was half-hearted in her attempts to salvage this object is an insult. This may come out wrong, but I know I wasn't rallying any support for the Big Dipper at Geauga Lake and the at last check, I didn't see you starting any petition or fundraiser, let alone a plan to rescue it from the wrecking ball. Not only was her whole heart in this project, every fiber of her being thought she could save this ride, and she was doing a great thing for fans, and history buffs alike.

There was nothing insulting at all. The effort was poor, at best. Just look at the website and updates (or lack of updates). it comes off as internet spam.

Passing judgement without all the facts, to me, is one of the most deplorable actions one can take and Im not narrowing that statement to this specific case.

What judgements were passed without facts? The effort was not there, and the project failed. You can call it "passing judgement"- I call it the brutal truth based upon the facts given (or not given) by the fundraising website. If you have more "facts" that have not been released, please enlighten us.

Being an enthusiast does not entitle one for fundraising.

Where can I acquire the ability to tell how hard someone works simply by looking at their website?

Perhaps not a direct reflection of how "hard" somebody works, but definitely an indicator of how seriously they take the project. And couple that with the fact that donors were not directly contacted or thanked after making their donations, and it's easy to see a lack of planning and foresight in their efforts.

Nobody is doubting their intentions. They made the classic mistake of applying emotional justification to a business decision without the necessary planning, procedures, or protocol. They claimed to own the ride when they didn't. They didn't even make the full, agreed upon, down payment.

They lost any ounce of credibility with me when they proclaimed "the ride could run today if it had power." The ride had been sitting for several years, and the trains were sitting, exposed to the elements, in the exact same spot on the midway where they were on the day of the auction.

Did you donate to the project? Did you completely miss that both Kat and Harold had no reason to believe they didn't own the ride at the time of the down payment, as per their agreement with Mr. Woosnam? Did you ever inspect the Big Dipper for yourself? Do you know how well its trains can handle the weather? Do you know for a fact that they've just been sitting all alone, by themselves, with absolutely nothing protecting them? Have you seen the land the ride's on? Have you talked to--or even met--Kat? Save for the last (and maybe the first) question, can any of us answer any of those with "yes"? And yet, the apparent majority here seem to know all about it and have the full evidence to be so sure that Kat is running a scam that got started carelessly on a whim with a random stranger she found online.

What gives any last one of you the right to judge the true motivations behind the project or its leaders?

I didn't donate to the project. I did read that Kat and Harold had reason to believe the ride was theirs. I haven't ever even been to the Cleveland area, let alone Geauga Lake. I have absolutely no insider information on the Save the Big Dipper project or the ride's . But I do know this: I have met Kat and talked to her multiple times. And she shared some of her coaster passion with me, of which she has a huge abundance. I don't know why she apparently didn't send a thank you to each person that donated, but I do know she had a drive to save a classic John Miller ride. It's exactly the sort of drive that inspired historic coaster funds like the National Roller Coaster Museum, etc. Whether you thought the ride was worth saving or not, Kat had a vision where the ride lived on to thrill families for years to come. And she was working to fulfill that dream, even in spite of some personal issues that required more attention than the Big Dipper project at times. She was doing what she could, and people like He Who Owneth TPR (who I'll not name, because he'd probably like that) worked in the name of a "joke" to knock the plan to the ground. Kat stuck her neck out for her dream, which takes a lot of nerve, in case those of you who are content to cut her down left and right comfortably behind your keyboard weren't aware.

Those are my words, which came from talking to her over the length of fall quarter--not hers. And you know what? I supported this project when it started, and if it somehow manages to continue (a miracle, I'm guessing, now, as Woosnam seems to be double-crossing Kat and Harold) I will gladly donate at least $25 to the project and post my PayPal receipt here for all to gawk at.

I won't say the project was perfect, because it wasn't. Thank-yous to donators were absolutely called for but apparently never showed, and I feel the legitimacy of the project could have been fleshed out more through photos and videos. I am just getting sick of how torn apart every last fricking detail of this project is getting by judgmental cynics and downright know-it-alls who know nothing at all, including He Who Selleth His Home Videos For Too Much Money, when all the project is doing is exactly the same thing a lot of people wanted when Geauga Lake was closing--saving the rides!

Call me naive or immature for typing all that. Whatever. I'd rather be naive and happy than a miserable, judgmental "realist".

Alex, who finds himself less of "a coaster enthusiast" (if there even is such a thing) and more of "a person who likes roller coasters" with each day this garbage rolls on!

[PREMiERdrum]

It's nothing personal. It's business. Those two had great intentions, but lacked the time an knowledge to properly execute the project.

As I said before:

Nobody is doubting their intentions. They made the classic mistake of applying emotional justification to a business decision without the necessary planning, procedures, or protocol.

[BavarianBeatle]

There have been lawyers involved, money has changed hands, and there were written representations made by all parties to the proposed sale of the ride. I can certainly tell you that even an experienced attorney could not even begin to pass judgment on what actually happened in this situation based solely upon the publicly available information.

[Gordon Bombay]

Where can I acquire the ability to tell how hard someone works simply by looking at their website?

Surfing the web and comparing other sites should do the trick:

http://www.google.com/

So you are saying that she should have spent her time and effort creating a better website rather than trying to save the coaster? I don't think the donors would have appreciated that.

The website had a lot to do with it. Upon it's publishing, the site was ragged on pretty hard by enthusiast forums across the net. Having a professional looking website can go a long way, but it wasn't the only problem. I know Kat personally and knew she wasn't intending to scam anyone, but to the casual observer interested in saving the ride - a freewebs layout where money is directed into someone's paypal account and the details of the plan are not specific really scared a lot of people off and gave them the wrong impression.

Now, as it's come out recently, obviously Kat couldn't talk a lot about what was going on behind the scenes per her legal advice and that's understandable, but ErosArrow05 brought up an excellent point when this was all originally discussed: Their group wasn't registered as a charitable organization, that spoke volumes about the whole thing and caused some to feel wary of investing.

[Browntggrr]

Where can I acquire the ability to tell how hard someone works simply by looking at their website?

Surfing the web and comparing other sites should do the trick:

http://www.google.com/

So you are saying that she should have spent her time and effort creating a better website rather than trying to save the coaster? I don't think the donors would have appreciated that.

Yes, she should have worked on a better website prior to jumping in feet first. Also, given that the site was the easiest way of donating, a legitimate look is paramount for "selling" people to donate.

For instance: Conneaut Lake Park was granted $50,000 for their Blue Streak roller coaster through the Pepsi Refresh Project. CLP for years has been: struggling to stay open, been in and out of bankruptcy, has had numerous owners & trustees, etc. Bottom line- the park was written off by most people. But then comes a vote by those same people to grant a large sum of money to save, argueably, the park's shining star.

If there were not people putting forth great effort to legitimately save the park, others would not have voted to save the coaster.

http://www.refresheverything.com/conneautlakeparkbluestreak

Unfortunately, with it comes to donating money, there will be skeptics- I am one of them. Since I do not know the people involved, I rely on the information given, and an update on Oct. 20th and then another update Dec. 2nd does not sit well with me as the information is not forthcoming. I want to know everything going on. If that information is not given, it leads to questions about the legitimacy of the project.

I'm sure those involved had every intention of saving the coaster, and not to personally scam anyone.

If some want to believe that my comments were to "cut her down left and right" so be it. My comments were not intended to insult her or her idea on a personal level, but they were intended to voice an opinion of how things were handled from a business standpoint.

[BavarianBeatle]

Where can I acquire the ability to tell how hard someone works simply by looking at their website?

Surfing the web and comparing other sites should do the trick:

http://www.google.com/

So you are saying that she should have spent her time and effort creating a better website rather than trying to save the coaster? I don't think the donors would have appreciated that.

Yes, she should have worked on a better website prior to jumping in feet first. Also, given that the site was the easiest way of donating, a legitimate look is paramount for "selling" people to donate.

For instance: Conneaut Lake Park was granted $50,000 for their Blue Streak roller coaster through the Pepsi Refresh Project. CLP for years has been: struggling to stay open, been in and out of bankruptcy, has had numerous owners & trustees, etc. Bottom line- the park was written off by most people. But then comes a vote by those same people to grant a large sum of money to save, argueably, the park's shining star.

If there were not people putting forth great effort to legitimately save the park, others would not have voted to save the coaster.

http://www.refreshev...eparkbluestreak

Unfortunately, with it comes to donating money, there will be skeptics- I am one of them. Since I do not know the people involved, I rely on the information given, and an update on Oct. 20th and then another update Dec. 2nd does not sit well with me as the information is not forthcoming. I want to know everything going on. If that information is not given, it leads to questions about the legitimacy of the project.

I'm sure those involved had every intention of saving the coaster, and not to personally scam anyone.

If some want to believe that my comments were to "cut her down left and right" so be it. My comments were not intended to insult her or her idea on a personal level, but they were intended to voice an opinion of how things were handled from a business standpoint.

Just out of curiosity, how much money should she have spent on that website, in your "opinion"? And how much should she have spent on the down payment? And how much on attorney fees? Please enlighten us, oh brilliant one!

[Guest rcfreak339]

It's nothing personal. It's business. Those two had great intentions, but lacked the time an knowledge to properly execute the project.

As I said before:

Nobody is doubting their intentions. They made the classic mistake of applying emotional justification to a business decision without the necessary planning, procedures, or protocol.

This.

They tried to do something good, but failed. Simple as that.

Refund the money, answer some questions and call it a day.

Where can I acquire the ability to tell how hard someone works simply by looking at their website?

Surfing the web and comparing other sites should do the trick:

http://www.google.com/

So you are saying that she should have spent her time and effort creating a better website rather than trying to save the coaster? I don't think the donors would have appreciated that.

Yes, she should have worked on a better website prior to jumping in feet first. Also, given that the site was the easiest way of donating, a legitimate look is paramount for "selling" people to donate.

For instance: Conneaut Lake Park was granted $50,000 for their Blue Streak roller coaster through the Pepsi Refresh Project. CLP for years has been: struggling to stay open, been in and out of bankruptcy, has had numerous owners & trustees, etc. Bottom line- the park was written off by most people. But then comes a vote by those same people to grant a large sum of money to save, argueably, the park's shining star.

If there were not people putting forth great effort to legitimately save the park, others would not have voted to save the coaster.

http://www.refreshev...eparkbluestreak

Unfortunately, with it comes to donating money, there will be skeptics- I am one of them. Since I do not know the people involved, I rely on the information given, and an update on Oct. 20th and then another update Dec. 2nd does not sit well with me as the information is not forthcoming. I want to know everything going on. If that information is not given, it leads to questions about the legitimacy of the project.

I'm sure those involved had every intention of saving the coaster, and not to personally scam anyone.

If some want to believe that my comments were to "cut her down left and right" so be it. My comments were not intended to insult her or her idea on a personal level, but they were intended to voice an opinion of how things were handled from a business standpoint.

Just out of curiosity, how much money should she have spent on that website, in your "opinion"? And how much should she have spent on the down payment? And how much on attorney fees? Please enlighten us, oh brilliant one!

What does the price have to do with it? She in fact should have been the one to figure out those numbers.

-You HAVE to be a creditable charity in order for it to succeed.

-You HAVE to have a website that is professional, she should have hired someone to do it. Not her, she obviously had no experience in that before.

-You HAVE to know what your doing overall. A project of this size needs to be ran by a person that knows exactly what their doing.

They just couldn't do it, many mistakes lead to the final result. Nothing personal to her.

[Dalefan]

The park should of made phone calls to the other themeparks asking if they wanted to buy the coaster. I'm not sure if that happened or not. I'm sure a small park or a park like Kennywood would of jumped on the chance to buy it. A normal person can't really do much with a coaster. The cost to move it, to get the state to inspect it and the maintance or repair will be too much money. The lady just couldn't get the funds to buy it. Move on and try to find another buyer. The longer it sits, the worst off it will be repair wise.

[windshawne]

In truth, her whole heart was in saving this object

While her heart may have been in it, the effort was not there.

But to sit and say she was half-hearted in her attempts to salvage this object is an insult. This may come out wrong, but I know I wasn't rallying any support for the Big Dipper at Geauga Lake and the at last check, I didn't see you starting any petition or fundraiser, let alone a plan to rescue it from the wrecking ball. Not only was her whole heart in this project, every fiber of her being thought she could save this ride, and she was doing a great thing for fans, and history buffs alike.

There was nothing insulting at all. The effort was poor, at best. Just look at the website and updates (or lack of updates). it comes off as internet spam.

Passing judgement without all the facts, to me, is one of the most deplorable actions one can take and Im not narrowing that statement to this specific case.

What judgements were passed without facts? The effort was not there, and the project failed. You can call it "passing judgement"- I call it the brutal truth based upon the facts given (or not given) by the fundraising website. If you have more "facts" that have not been released, please enlighten us.

Being an enthusiast does not entitle one for fundraising.

Where can I acquire the ability to tell how hard someone works simply by looking at their website?

Perhaps not a direct reflection of how "hard" somebody works, but definitely an indicator of how seriously they take the project. And couple that with the fact that donors were not directly contacted or thanked after making their donations, and it's easy to see a lack of planning and foresight in their efforts.

Nobody is doubting their intentions. They made the classic mistake of applying emotional justification to a business decision without the necessary planning, procedures, or protocol. They claimed to own the ride when they didn't. They didn't even make the full, agreed upon, down payment.

They lost any ounce of credibility with me when they proclaimed "the ride could run today if it had power." The ride had been sitting for several years, and the trains were sitting, exposed to the elements, in the exact same spot on the midway where they were on the day of the auction.

Did you donate to the project? Did you completely miss that both Kat and Harold had no reason to believe they didn't own the ride at the time of the down payment, as per their agreement with Mr. Woosnam? Did you ever inspect the Big Dipper for yourself? Do you know how well its trains can handle the weather? Do you know for a fact that they've just been sitting all alone, by themselves, with absolutely nothing protecting them? Have you seen the land the ride's on? Have you talked to--or even met--Kat? Save for the last (and maybe the first) question, can any of us answer any of those with "yes"? And yet, the apparent majority here seem to know all about it and have the full evidence to be so sure that Kat is running a scam that got started carelessly on a whim with a random stranger she found online.

What gives any last one of you the right to judge the true motivations behind the project or its leaders?

I didn't donate to the project. I did read that Kat and Harold had reason to believe the ride was theirs. I haven't ever even been to the Cleveland area, let alone Geauga Lake. I have absolutely no insider information on the Save the Big Dipper project or the ride's . But I do know this: I have met Kat and talked to her multiple times. And she shared some of her coaster passion with me, of which she has a huge abundance. I don't know why she apparently didn't send a thank you to each person that donated, but I do know she had a drive to save a classic John Miller ride. It's exactly the sort of drive that inspired historic coaster funds like the National Roller Coaster Museum, etc. Whether you thought the ride was worth saving or not, Kat had a vision where the ride lived on to thrill families for years to come. And she was working to fulfill that dream, even in spite of some personal issues that required more attention than the Big Dipper project at times. She was doing what she could, and people like He Who Owneth TPR (who I'll not name, because he'd probably like that) worked in the name of a "joke" to knock the plan to the ground. Kat stuck her neck out for her dream, which takes a lot of nerve, in case those of you who are content to cut her down left and right comfortably behind your keyboard weren't aware.

Those are my words, which came from talking to her over the length of fall quarter--not hers. And you know what? I supported this project when it started, and if it somehow manages to continue (a miracle, I'm guessing, now, as Woosnam seems to be double-crossing Kat and Harold) I will gladly donate at least $25 to the project and post my PayPal receipt here for all to gawk at.

I won't say the project was perfect, because it wasn't. Thank-yous to donators were absolutely called for but apparently never showed, and I feel the legitimacy of the project could have been fleshed out more through photos and videos. I am just getting sick of how torn apart every last fricking detail of this project is getting by judgmental cynics and downright know-it-alls who know nothing at all, including He Who Selleth His Home Videos For Too Much Money, when all the project is doing is exactly the same thing a lot of people wanted when Geauga Lake was closing--saving the rides!

Call me naive or immature for typing all that. Whatever. I'd rather be naive and happy than a miserable, judgmental "realist".

Alex, who finds himself less of "a coaster enthusiast" (if there even is such a thing) and more of "a person who likes roller coasters" with each day this garbage rolls on!

Where's the "like" button for this post??

[The Interpreter]

The park should of made phone calls to the other themeparks asking if they wanted to buy the coaster. I'm not sure if that happened or not. I'm sure a small park or a park like Kennywood would of jumped on the chance to buy it. A normal person can't really do much with a coaster. The cost to move it, to get the state to inspect it and the maintance or repair will be too much money. The lady just couldn't get the funds to buy it. Move on and try to find another buyer. The longer it sits, the worst off it will be repair wise.

a. Cedar Fair disposed of the ride through the usual method used by large corporate owners to dispose of corporate assets. Given what has happened since, however, one must wonder if they did not include a date by which the asset must have been removed from the real property. It's very difficult to believe they did not. In point of fact, they probably did....that may be part of the problem here.

b. Kennywood the organization is not merely a small park and hasn't been for years...it is currently owned by a large foreign owner with many corporate parks worldwide, operating in the USA as Palace Entertainment.

c. You'd be surprised how small the market is for wooden coasters. There's one in Middletown, Ohio, for instance, that would have been disposed of long ago if there were a line of interested operators waiting to buy and relocate them. There is not.

d. The expense in relocating a wooden coaster is indeed very substantial and not for the faint of heart. The aggravations, frustrations and disappointments and unanticipated problems also are a huge factor. Few have been done in comparison to the many, many hundreds that have been destroyed over the years.

e. There are many sound reasons most parks and park companies would prefer to buy and erect a new wooden coaster as opposed to relocating an historic one. Sad, but true.

f. Move on, and find another buyer, you say...but who is supposed to do this? I have questioned for quite some time now who, if anyone, has the right to sell Big Dipper...one possibility for why the purported owner did not and has not delivered title to the coaster is because he (?)/she(?)/it(?) does not have the legal right to do so. See a. above.... By the way, the purported owner's name has never been disclosed, only the purported agent therefor.

g. This is indeed a mess at this point...and any potential buyer would probably be dissuaded by the events that have already occurred. If one potential buyer is claiming they were dissed/cheated/lied to by the seller, why on earth would someone else want to deal with the same seller? Why indeed?

[gigacoaster2k]

When I first joined this forum, it was a wonderfully unbiased place in which to share your opinions. It seems this is not the case anymore.

Regardless if some members are only repeating what Kat herself has said, must we point fingers? I didn't think that was tolerated here.

If you have a problem with Kat, do the adult thing and contact her. Making disrespectful comments about her on a public forum is not a step to solving whatever problem you may have. I'm disappointed that the coaster won't be saved, but she is addressing the issue and taking steps to resolve it along with her apologies, and I'm content with that. I am a good friend of hers, and some of the posts I am reading here are simply ridiculous. Making assumptions will get you nowhere in life.

If some of you have actually read the recent blog posts, she is returning the donations she has gotten. So for those of you who think it was a scam, you couldn't be more wrong. Showing that you have no faith in her right now is the worst thing you can do.

Sometimes thing work out. Sometimes they don't. That's life.

[Outdoor Man]

a. Cedar Fair disposed of the ride through the usual method used by large corporate owners to dispose of corporate assets. Given what has happened since, however, one must wonder if they did not include a date by which the asset must have been removed from the real property. It's very difficult to believe they did not. In point of fact, they probably did....that may be part of the problem here.

that's one of the more interesting things of how the property has been "dismantled"- a lot of assets have been lingering. the observation tower just came down last year. I think Raging Wolfs Bobs is still standing (albeit without the metal track rails and some support boards).

[TombRaiderFTW]

The park should of made phone calls to the other themeparks asking if they wanted to buy the coaster. I'm not sure if that happened or not. I'm sure a small park or a park like Kennywood would of jumped on the chance to buy it. A normal person can't really do much with a coaster. The cost to move it, to get the state to inspect it and the maintance or repair will be too much money. The lady just couldn't get the funds to buy it. Move on and try to find another buyer. The longer it sits, the worst off it will be repair wise.

Err... from SavetheBigDipper.org:

A relocation venue had been secured, a relocation company had been hired and a large portion of the money needed for the relocation had been secured through private funding. We were only waiting on the paperwork to move ahead and were within weeks of making an announcement.

In reference to:

They tried to do something good, but failed. Simple as that.

Refund the money, answer some questions and call it a day.

That's the fairest opinion I've ever heard so far in any thread anywhere related to the Big Dipper. Thank you.

[Browntggrr]

Just out of curiosity, how much money should she have spent on that website, in your "opinion"? And how much should she have spent on the down payment? And how much on attorney fees? Please enlighten us, oh brilliant one!

That is a simple answer for web design: more than she did. It could have been the difference of succeeding vs. what really happened. Take a good look right here at KIC and what a small group of dedicated young adults have done. I would happily send a donation to them given the enjoyment this site has offered over the years.

There are enough enthusiasts with web design experience that I'm sure would have been happy to help out if they felt the project was worth the time.

On the down payment? Given this:

We sent them a down payment, with the agreement that the rest of the money would be paid after paperwork had been completed showing the legal transfer between the two parties. After the owners received the down payment, we were declared, both publicly and privately, to be the new owners. It has been our belief since that day that we were indeed the owners of the coaster. It was announced, by the owner, Mr Woosnam, to the news media in Cleveland, that we had taken ownership of the coaster as of September 30th. Since that day, I have attempted numerous times to get the legal documentation from him that I had been requesting. I was not willing to send any additional funds until this paperwork was completed.

http://www.savethebigdipper.org/

It appears there was more money available for the down payment, but she was unwilling to send it. Why not be willing to use the money that people donated, unless there was some kind of fear the project would fall through.

On the attorney? Please see the above comments about the web design as it applies here also.

Since it appears you have an emotional tie to this project: how much did she spend out of pocket for the project for the same entities you questioned me about?