What If KI Was Bought By TODAY'S Cedar Fair?

[bkroz]

I know we give a lot of credit to Mr. Ouimet for shifting attitudes at parks (improving food choices, prioritizing theming, aiming for "best day" experiences, etc) and that many of us perceive a huge fundamental shift in the industry and in Cedar Fair Parks. While glancing through the park's website today, I stumbled across the timeline and of course, expanded 2002 to see what they had to say about Tomb Raider: The Ride. Interestingly, they describe the ride as "a collaboration between Paramount Studios and Kings Island." True, I guess, but to sort of look back and dissect it as a relationship between a studio and a park – a partnership or collaboration – got me thinking...

If, in some parallel universe, the Cedar Fair of today was the one that had purchased the Paramount Parks back in 2006, do you think Mr. Ouimet and his management team would've found it worthwhile to continue a "partnership" that would maintain Paramount licenses? Supposedly (and I'm no expert here) that option was out there for the Cedar Fair of the time, who no doubt carefully weighed options and decided to lose any branding or licensing through Paramount.

I don't know. I'm not suggesting keeping the Paramount's monicker or its film tie-ins was necessarily a better choice than what did end up happening. But you have to wonder if Ouimet's Cedar Fair, given a second chance at it, would see the "collaboration" as a positive thing. At the VERY least, I doubt we would've ended up with "Flight Deck" or "Drop Tower" like we did.

I guess to ask that also asks for suspension of disbelief since Ouimet's Cedar Fair probably wouldn't have purchased the Paramount Parks to begin with, and that Ouimet probably wouldn't be affiliated with Cedar Fair if they hadn't... I don't know. Confusing thought. Something worth thinking about.

[westcoaster]

Well said.

[bkroz]

Even though I'm certain it's entirely different, it reminds me of Anheuser-Busch staying on as a sponsor of Busch Gardens, retaining a level of presence and sponsorship while the park uses the Busch name and was free to continue to use the signature eagle logo and share in Anheuser-Busch based marketing campaigns ("Here's to the Heroes" and "Salute the Troops" promotions, etc).

I'm not sure what kinds of monies are exchanged there, to be fair.

I'm sure any agreement between Cedar Fair and Paramount would've seen a LOT of monies exchanged, and I have a pretty good feeling I know in which direction they would've flowed. Still it's odd to think that maybe Ouimet would look at things differently. On the most extreme end of the spectrum, he might've said "This partnership is valuable, these brands are valuable, and this can work." Worst case, he might've said "You know what? We don't need Paramount's names, but we can learn something from this," taking care to re-theme instead of moving to immediately wipe-out movie ties with as little creativity as possible. Haha! Would be a different park either way, I think.

[BoddaH1994]

I'm sure he would have wanted to keep the Paramount Licensing, but I doubt it would have been for a price that would have been worth it to him.

[The Interpreter]

Exactly. VIACOM, not CBS as park seller, had those rights to offer. It is my understanding they were available, for several times more than the price of the parks themselves. Kinzel and Co. were already perceived as greatly overpaying for Paramount Parks.

Cedar Fair barely eked its way through the Great Recession. That additional debtload would have done it in. It, like Six Flags, would have gone bankrupt. Apollo and Avenue Capital would have gotten their wish. Six Flags and Cedar Fair would have emerged from their bankruptcies a single, merged company, with Bart Kinzel at the helm.

[BoddaH1994]

At least the condos that would be there now would be in a nice school district...

[thegajone]

Several times more than the price of the parks themselves? That's pretty crazy.

[BB1]

If I am correct, doesn't Cedar Fair have licensing towards Paramount names, logos, themes, effects, & props until 2016(edited from the response below)? Therefore creating an idea that Mr. Ouimet could have integrated their themes even with the, at the time, new Cedar Fair spearhead effort to "clean up" the Island.

[The Interpreter]

You are not correct. Cedar Fair initially had certain rights for ten years from June 30, 2006, with others only for six years It gave up those rights early, probably receiving a remuneration therefor.

[BB1]

(I knew it was somewhere in the 2016-2018 time frame.)

But even then, since we are talking about hypotheticals here, I could see Mr. Ouimet doing something with the themes that were originally there. Heck, we could have possibly seen the full Top Gun theme back from the olden days in 2007.

[westcoaster]

Of course never say never but Snoopy and the Peanuts may or may not be with Cedar Fair forever, I like it but we shall see, things change its what makes the world go around.

[homestar92]

I hope Snoopy doesn't leave Cedar Fair. Looney Tunes is at SIX parks, and would likely not be obtainable for any reasonable amount of money. Same with DC Comics. Disney owns the rights to itsown characters, Marvel comics, and Star Wars. Hanna Barbera, as much as we would love to get it back for the nostalgia, is simply not relevant to today's youth. Nickelodeon isn't what it once was. So what worthwhile licenses does that leave for a kids area? All I can think of other than Snoopy is Nintendo characters, but I'm not sure they'd license their IPs for cheap and even that might be too esoteric of a theme. Of course, you don't actually NEED recognizable mascots, as they do not always make things better. For evidence of that claim, I direct your attention to an Old Mill in West Mifflin, PA.

[Sonofbeast2.0]

If I am correct, doesn't Cedar Fair have licensing towards Paramount names, logos, themes, effects, & props until 2016(edited from the response below)? Therefore creating an idea that Mr. Ouimet could have integrated their themes even with the, at the time, new Cedar Fair spearhead effort to "clean up" the Island.

You are not correct. Cedar Fair initially had certain rights for ten years from June 30, 2006, with others only for six years It gave up those rights early, probably receiving a remuneration therefor.

So does that mean something like BLSC or AE loosing all or whats left of their theming in 2016? Require name changes of rides like AE and Delirium? I'm kind of confused on these certain rights that they have till 2016...

[shark6495]

I was against the Peanuts crew a few years back. Now that I have a son, I am slowly realizing its not about the face on the costume, but the costume itself. My son laughs and dances with the whole Peanut crew. We also have a few Snoopy books and a stuffed animal, so I am sure he recognizes them slightly from that.

If Peanuts ever does elsewhere, there are a few other brands available. For example a Flagged company recently released Thomas and the Wiggles.

Not to mention some Cartoon Network/Turner/Time Warner characters are not licensed... yet

[shark6495]

If I am correct, doesn't Cedar Fair have licensing towards Paramount names, logos, themes, effects, & props until 2016(edited from the response below)? Therefore creating an idea that Mr. Ouimet could have integrated their themes even with the, at the time, new Cedar Fair spearhead effort to "clean up" the Island.

You are not correct. Cedar Fair initially had certain rights for ten years from June 30, 2006, with others only for six years It gave up those rights early, probably receiving a remuneration therefor.

So does that mean something like BLSC or AE loosing all or whats left of their theming in 2016? Require name changes of rides like AE and Delirium? I'm kind of confused on these certain rights that they have till 2016...

AE was never themed to a Paramount Park property. So no reason for that to be changed. BLSC already lost its licensed theming when we went to the non-descript Mini replacements and dropping of the name Italian Job.

[raptor]

Well I am glad it happened the way it did. I don't like theming a park around a company. I would like to go back to the days (mostly before my time) when amusement parks only real theme was having a carnival atmosphere.

[bkroz]

Plenty of places to go for that. Kings Island isn't one of them, and god willing it never will be.

Mr. Disney thought families deserved better, and that parents and children could have fun together. Ever since, many parks have been following his lead, to mixed results.

Nothing wrong with carnivals if that's what you like. But parks like Kings Island are an evolution of that, and in what I would call the right direction.

[Guest dtk1376]

I hope Snoopy doesn't leave Cedar Fair. Looney Tunes is at SIX parks, and would likely not be obtainable for any reasonable amount of money. Same with DC Comics. Disney owns the rights to itsown characters, Marvel comics, and Star Wars. Hanna Barbera, as much as we would love to get it back for the nostalgia, is simply not relevant to today's youth. Nickelodeon isn't what it once was. So what worthwhile licenses does that leave for a kids area? All I can think of other than Snoopy is Nintendo characters, but I'm not sure they'd license their IPs for cheap and even that might be too esoteric of a theme. Of course, you don't actually NEED recognizable mascots, as they do not always make things better. For evidence of that claim, I direct your attention to an Old Mill in West Mifflin, PA.

Peanuts is far from relevant in today's culture either, probably to the same degree as Hanna Barbera if not more. I do like Peanuts though, just because they have an innocence to them that fits very well in a kids theme area as opposed to Nickelodeon with some cartoons that are more geared towards pre-teen/teenagers.

[bkroz]

Peanuts characters are at least engrained in pop culture. You know who Snoopy is even if you haven't seen one of their films. You know Charlie Brown. Even if you don't know their names, you could probably easily identify a character as belonging to the Peanuts franchise from a lineup of a dozen cartoon characters. It's got a nice timelessness to it, where even if you don't love Peanuts, you recognize them and you get the gist of them.

Nickelodeon was fatally flawed in that not enough of its shows were timeless. It catered wonderfully to the children of the 90s, and thus many of us who are now in our early 20s valiantly defended its staying in the park, even if we knew we wouldn't visit Nickelodeon Universe ourselves. It's natural to assume that your era is clearly the best. We felt that way about Nickelodeon - it was totally on the pulse of our generation and feels timeless to us. The quality of Nickelodeon's current programming notwithstanding, who would Danny Phantom be to today's kids? Jimmy Neutron? Wild Thornberry's? Lazytown? Even Rugrats aren't around today like they used to be.

Hanna-Barbera is the same - beloved by its generation (which crosses into the 90s, too) who are certain it is timeless and wonderful and unforgettable, if only because it's unforgettable to them. But now... Grape Ape? Hong Kong Phooey? Winnie Witch? Baba Louie? Wonderful programs, and very important to the generation they inspired. But today? Scooby-Doo aside, those characters are meaningless to kids. (Which isn't necessary bad... better Hanna-Barbera's forgotten cast that almost comes across as "original chracters created for the park" than Nickelodeon's not-quite forgotten, so it feels dated cast).

[Guest dtk1376]

I never checked out Nickelodeon Universe very much, it fit well with the Paramount theme to an extent since they were both (at the time) up to date current productions. If Kings Island was forced to remove the Peanuts theme (which I in no way support and hope doesn't happen any time soon), they could always theme it after the Cartoon Network. Imagine an Adventure Time Boo Blaster, The Gumball Aerial Chase, etc.

Oh, and you forgot the one Hanna Barbera that is close to relevant, The Flinstones, maybe Jetsons too.

[bkroz]

I never checked out Nickelodeon Universe very much, it fit well with the Paramount theme to an extent since they were both (at the time) up to date current productions. If Kings Island was forced to remove the Peanuts theme (which I in no way support and hope doesn't happen any time soon), they could always theme it after the Cartoon Network. Imagine an Adventure Time Boo Blaster, The Gumball Aerial Chase, etc.

Oh, and you forgot the one Hanna Barbera that is close to relevant, The Flinstones, maybe Jetsons too.

With Cartoon Network, that, too, would need updated before the end of the decade. A 9-year old who watches "The Amazing World of Gumball" today (which I had to Google search) will be 15 in 2020. Chances are that the show won't still be being made in 2020, so the new generation of 9-year-olds will have no idea whatsoever that show was. Or worse, they'll know it's an "old" show that used to be that no one watches any more.

[The Interpreter]

Hanna-Barbera isn't an option. As a Time-Warner property, its exclusive US theme park partner, except in and around Las Vegas, is Six Flags Entertainment Corporation.

[westcoaster]

Next year peanuts movie will help bring the importance of the Peanuts, its a timeless comic strip trust me visiting MOA the largest mall in the U.S.A was great when Snoopy stole the show, the what if's if KI was bought etc, is the debates, theme's go with this but look out west at the 2nd most profitable park, sure they have a Camp Snoopy since the 80's but look past that and their dark rides show each ride can have a theme of its own and are incredible. What we are fortunate is what Kings Island is, not what it can be, or what it was, or could have been, but the Park that its for sure going to evolve, maybe new owners over time, and continue to entertain us today and forever, we can only hope.

[westcoaster]

Hanna-Barbera isn't an option. As a Time-Warner property, its exclusive US theme park partner, except in and around Las Vegas, is Six Flags Entertainment Corporation.

Really so the hopes of having a theme park of Hanna Barbera could still happen in Vegas yeh! Loving this:

[westcoaster]

Anyone know exactly why not in or around Las Vegas? Would love to know more about that .

[Guest dtk1376]

I never checked out Nickelodeon Universe very much, it fit well with the Paramount theme to an extent since they were both (at the time) up to date current productions. If Kings Island was forced to remove the Peanuts theme (which I in no way support and hope doesn't happen any time soon), they could always theme it after the Cartoon Network. Imagine an Adventure Time Boo Blaster, The Gumball Aerial Chase, etc.

Oh, and you forgot the one Hanna Barbera that is close to relevant, The Flinstones, maybe Jetsons too.

With Cartoon Network, that, too, would need updated before the end of the decade. A 9-year old who watches "The Amazing World of Gumball" today (which I had to Google search) will be 15 in 2020. Chances are that the show won't still be being made in 2020, so the new generation of 9-year-olds will have no idea whatsoever that show was. Or worse, they'll know it's an "old" show that used to be that no one watches any more.

Exactly, hence they should keep it just the way it is. Hard saying what would happen if they lost the licensing rights to Peanuts, but I'm sure they would figure something out. But for now I will just enjoy what we have, I love my daughter actually getting excited to see characters I loved as a kid, kinda surreal in a way.

[shark6495]

To be honest the only thing I miss about HB land was the unique rde experiences. You could drive the Flintstone car in the bumper cars, ride next to Janberjaw or Scooby on the carousel, or fly the Jetsons car in a circle.

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[medford]

I've mentioned this many times, but if you have a young son who blurts out "Kings Island" every time he sees a piece of advertising using the Peanuts, you quickly realize just how often you see the Peanuts gang. Car washes, blimps, life insurance, TV specials, etc.... its around a lot more than I ever realized. There is also a certain element that relates to the Peanuts that Nickelodeon never could, namely grandparents. There are many grandparents who hand out in Planet Snoopy with their grandchildren. Many (most) grandparents can relate to snoopy, share an experience and tell their grandchildren Charlie Brown stories from their youth; few grandparents can relate to Sponge Bob, fewer still (probably something close, but above "none") can share stories of Squidword (sp?) from their youth.

The Peanuts create a connection that spans across 3 generations (and in some case 4 generations). While the rides in Planet Snoopy are designed around 3-7 year olds, the names and themeing of those rides are designed around 25-80 year olds. My son calls Woodstock Express The Beastie, FAAC is "the yellow coaster", Snoopy's Splash Dance is "the splashpad", etc... He could give a rip what the name of the ride is and few are highly themed. Its the parents and grandparents who care, who name evokes memories of their youth, who's souvenirs they consume, etc.. Since Disney related theming isn't in the picture, The Peanuts is a great property to by associated with. Its still occasionally relevant to today's youth and will become even more so with next season's movie, and its incredibly relatable to the generations who proceed them, the people actually spending the money in the park.

[medford]

To be honest the only thing I miss about HB land was the unique rde experiences. You could drive the Flintstone car in the bumper cars, ride next to Janberjaw or Scooby on the carousel, or fly the Jetsons car in a circle.

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I miss the tunnel. I greatly miss the tunnel.

[kingsislandfan1972]

Spongebob is definitely better than Snoopy.