Intellectual properties

[KIFan1]

How would everybody feel if Tomb Raider The Ride came back? Plus Lionsgate is heavily working to get a Hunger Games park so what if KI got it? KI would have themed properties like it once had so what does everybody think?

[shark6495]

I think it depends. If we are talking about an imaginary world where it costs no money, I say great idea. However, if it means that a significant amount of the budget has to be dedicated to paying licensing fees, I say no way. Those fees would come to us as customers in one way shape or form. Either in higher prices or in less things around the park.

[disco2000]

Personally, I think of KI as a season pass park (compared to other parks) that I think a lot of the theming is not appreciated by the guests that attend. I think back to the early Paramount days and the Star Trek and other characters walking around and you wouldn't see them get the same attention as characters at other parks. Not many guests would stop or even form a line to get their picture with them. And you cannot compare that to the lines for the Marvel characters that visited KI as that was a short-run duration.

Other than enthusiasts, most of the folks I talk to look at Back Lot, Drop Tower, Invertigo, Bat, etc. as basically the same ride as when Paramount had the park, it is just a new name (can you believe that!). In other words, the theming was lost/not appreciated by them.

Although I loved the whole Top Gun experience and felt a let down when it became Flight Deck, I think current Cedar Fair management can do a fine job with non-license theming elements (like Banshee) and invest what would be a license fee into other improvements. I don't think they would see the return investing Harry Potter-like money into an area, but then again Disney didn't think so either when they passed on the Harry Potter experience - wonder what Universal thinks about the investment?

[westcoaster]

But a well ran well dedicated themed area of the park, would rock. Imagine taking Star Trek Land, Hunger games?

Well known, themed land.

Now my opinion it would not happen at Kings Island.

I feel Kings Island is serving its purpose, of good clean fun to the Greater Cincinnati area and beyond.

As did Coney Island up to 1971.

[shark6495]

I think you are wrong about the characters. Yes there isnt a massive line, but people would walk up to them and get pictures. I remember as a child chasing down the Hannah Barbara characters. My son does the same with Snoopy.

[disco2000]

I agree with you that the characters do get some attention, but nowhere near the attention the characters at parks in the Orlando area get (where some of those lines rival/exceed a wait for Diamondback). I have watched on many occasions where Snoopy is out in the Thriller jacket 10-15 minutes before the Flashback 80's show and not a single picture is taken with him.

My point was from my experience, the current demographic/draw of a typical KI patron does not really appreciate the theming package, including characters, like you would see at a park in Orlando. Are there exceptions, of course, just like you will find someone that goes to an Orlando park just for the rides and not pay any attention to the whole theming experience.

I have rode Banshee many times and have asked folks what they thought of the tombstones so I could interject that a couple of them are named after folks on a forum I belong to, and more times than not, the reply is "what tombstones?" They are there to ride rides. Look how many people don't even see the sign that says "no loose articles in line" and have to be stopped - most of these same people are also oblivious to the theming.

It is not a knock on any park or patron, simply a well known observation/expectation that you will not get the same theme experience at a regional park like you would a Disney park. Would Banshee theming done by Disney be incredible - yes - and the same ride probably would have cost $100 million. Would that expenditure have drawn enough crowds to justify it at KI, probably not?

[bkroz]

Rides like Drop Zone, FACE/OFF, and Top Gun had practically no change in the actual experience.

So why did folks still want the old names?

THAT was not a matter of "theming" per se. Nothing about Drop Zone required the film to exist at all, much less for riders to know or care about it. Didn't matter. They could've renamed Drop Zone into Turkey Leg Doom Fall and the ride experience would be unaffected. (Might've been a better name than Drop Tower, anyway.)

People resisted the new names because they weren't an upgrade. They weren't a re-theme. They were a de-theme. They hastily de-branded the rides into the most generic names possible. Nothing whatsoever tied the roller coaster formerly known as Top Gun to an aviation theme. It could've been named anything. Instead, they chose to come up with the most generic alternative to the "Top Gun" aviation theme that they could. I am still baffled that someone suggested Flight Deck, much less that it passed the many levels of approval one would hope is necessary before that became a roller coaster's name. Drop Tower is about as bad a name as you can imagine, and it hurt to lose the cool spiral logo in favor of... WordArt.

Italian Job: Stunt Track and TOMB RAIDER: The Ride were both heavily affected by the removal of their licensing. Many here believe that they would've ended up even WORSE had they remained with those names under CBS's ownership. As much as we glorify, recall that during its last seasons, TOMB RAIDER was closed more than open. When it did work, it was without music or most of its effects. The Crypt 2008 was sincerely an upgrade from TOMB RAIDER 2006 / 2007.

I think Cedar Fair of today would do a better job maintaining Tomb Raider. That being said, I don't think they'd go out on the limb to build it to begin with.

As far as Intellectual Property, Cedar Fair has plenty of agreements. Peanuts, Pink's, LaRosa's, Graeter's, Dale Earnhardt, Coca-Cola... Lebron James?

[The Interpreter]

Under the Cedar Fair of then, only one level of approval mattered. If he wanted it done, no dissent would be tolerated. If he didn't, good luck changing his mind. He even stocked key positions with his son and son-in-law, regardless of any lack of non-familial qualifications or ability.

Mr. Richard Kinzel.

Thank God and the Knott family and Q and Geoffrey Raynor and Apollo over-reaching he's gone.

[KIFan1]

Under the Cedar Fair of then, only one level of approval mattered. If he wanted it done, no dissent would be tolerated. If he didn't, good luck changing his mind. He even stocked key positions with his son and son-in-law, regardless of any lack of non-familial qualifications or ability.

Mr. Richard Kinzel.

Thank God and the Knott family and Q and Geoffrey Raynor and Apollo over-reaching he's gone.

With Dick Kinzel who was his son and son-in-law? All I know of is Bart Kinzel.

[purdude86]

Personally, I think of KI as a season pass park (compared to other parks) that I think a lot of the theming is not appreciated by the guests that attend. I think back to the early Paramount days and the Star Trek and other characters walking around and you wouldn't see them get the same attention as characters at other parks. Not many guests would stop or even form a line to get their picture with them. And you cannot compare that to the lines for the Marvel characters that visited KI as that was a short-run duration.

Other than enthusiasts, most of the folks I talk to look at Back Lot, Drop Tower, Invertigo, Bat, etc. as basically the same ride as when Paramount had the park, it is just a new name (can you believe that!). In other words, the theming was lost/not appreciated by them.

Although I loved the whole Top Gun experience and felt a let down when it became Flight Deck, I think current Cedar Fair management can do a fine job with non-license theming elements (like Banshee) and invest what would be a license fee into other improvements. I don't think they would see the return investing Harry Potter-like money into an area, but then again Disney didn't think so either when they passed on the Harry Potter experience - wonder what Universal thinks about the investment?

I agree. Most fo the rides were pretty much unchanged by the loss of rights when Cedar Fair took over. The only one that truly changed was Tomb Raider. The only other ride heavily themed to a movie was IJST and it's change to BLSC has had hardly any change to the feel of the ride at all. EVerything else was themed in name and movie posters only.

And we have seen they can do well with theming without license with Banshee. Extensive theming to other IPs isn't needed. i'd rather them invest that money into other enhancements, attractions, and their own theming. Even if they did have the rights to these the theming would probably still be fairly light as it was before, we're not going to get a ride with the heavy theming of a park like Universal or Disney. I'd say Tomb Raider was even an exception. Flight of Fear would probably be the most I'd expect adn Banshee is probably even more likely.

[The Interpreter]

With Dick Kinzel who was his son and son-in-law? All I know of is Bart Kinzel.

This may help. The facts therein were generally accurate at time of posting. The author here did not in any way contribute to the content at the link below, nor is he responsible for its content:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lb74wt2

(had to use this as the forum software here was messing with the link, which contains brackets)

[KIFan1]

With Dick Kinzel who was his son and son-in-law? All I know of is Bart Kinzel.

This may help. The facts therein were generally accurate at time of posting. The author here did not in any way contribute to the content at the link below, nor is he responsible for its content:http://preview.tinyurl.com/lb74wt2

(had to use this as the forum software here was messing with the link, which contains brackets)

Thanks. I know Bart resigned and I always wanted to know why.

[Sonofbeast2.0]

Something like TR: TR could always return. But with a different name, similar feeling to TR: TR not, The Crypt. Simple name changing from TR: TR and a different experience from that but still feeling quite well themed. Heck they could call it something like Tomb Runner: The Ride (TR: TR), as long as no legal issues, and their ya go!

[The Interpreter]

That would be an instant lawsuit.

No different than, say, Coda-Cola would be.

[bkroz]

Also keep in mind that Tomb Raider: FireFall at Kings Dominion kept its synchronized audio, film props, Triangle of Light painting on the ride carriage, fire, water, and steam, etc. The only notable change on the ride was the removal of a triangle of light plaque on the temple-themed backdrop and its replacement with a skull plaque.

I don't know anything about this kind of stuff, but it COULD have to do with Paramount Parks Inc.'s patent for an "Enclosed programmably controlled looping swing," which is VERY specific on what's protected under the patent in relation to the Giant ride. It seems that Cedar Fair might've had very few options when it came to Tomb Raider... maybe even forbidden from an ancient deity / artifact search / adventure themed attraction. In that case, "theming" it to "The Crypt" was actually quite a smart response.

From the patent:

[jcgoble3]

With Dick Kinzel who was his son and son-in-law? All I know of is Bart Kinzel.

This may help. The facts therein were generally accurate at time of posting. The author here did not in any way contribute to the content at the link below, nor is he responsible for its content:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lb74wt2

(had to use this as the forum software here was messing with the link, which contains brackets)

The solution is to "percent-encode" the parentheses as "%28" and "%29", which are "(" and ")" respectively. Firefox actually does this automatically for me when I copy the URL from the address bar. Anyway, the direct link is here: http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Cedar_Fair,_L.P._%28FUN%29/Certain_Relationships_Related_Transactions