The Amusement Park Railroad Thread

[SonofBaconator]

4 hours ago, MillenniumforceMike said:

I've always wondered. Why did KI switch out the stacks on #12?

Most likely for what @kimv1972 said earlier. I came across this on KI History's Facebook page. Notice how it still says Tecumseh on it so its gotta still be the 80s. Who knows, but this might be the picture of them altering the stack. Also the domes used to be blue so perhaps they were painted red in this picture.

[kimv1972]

Note the number has been painted over on the headlight and the bracket is changed to yellow.  It looks like a sleeve on the stack, so that probably was the beginning of the new capstack.  Do we know exactly what year the engines were renamed?  This pic was after Whitewater Canyon was put in, since there is concrete across the tracks.

[SonofBaconator]

Some more stills of #12s old look

Notable differences: larger stack, blue domes, blue headlamp brackets, and the name "Tecumseh"

[MillenniumforceMike]

 

Kings Island now sells resin models of their locomotives. They go for 20 bucks a pop

[kimv1972]

Attached is the obituary in Live Steam Magazine for Ken Williams, Crown Metal Products founder.  It was my recollection that Ken died later in the year between the delivery of #19 and #12, but apparently he was already gone before #19 arrived in October or November 1971.  Ken's son Bert would have been responsible for delivering both engines and testing them.  During the early years, the Losantiville station had a sign reading "Ken Williams, Stationmaster".

[kimv1972]

When I first toured the park in December 1971 with someday-to-be-park-manager-Al Weber, the station platform corral was stacked full of the canoes to be used on the two canoe rides.  That appears to be some of them in one of the pictures.  And I vaguely remember Bert Williams wearing a fishing hat like that.  You may have discovered pictures of the very first test runs of #12 in February 1972.  The ties appear to have a light dusting of snow on them.

[SonofBaconator]

 

[MillenniumforceMike]

Coasterstock 2021

[MillenniumforceMike]

so the crown from Huntsville depot is now at doe river gorge and I can prove it in 3 images.

1.  the image is of the locomotive at Huntsville Depot

2. The Locomotive in skeleton form. You can tell it is the locomotive by it's cab and boiler door

3. The locomotive nearly completed. It has a stack and a new cab.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGlGuu5HZPA this video proof as well

[SonofBaconator]

1 hour ago, MillenniumforceMike said:

so the crown from Huntsville depot is now at doe river gorge and I can prove it in 3 images.

1.  the image is of the locomotive at Huntsville Depot

2. The Locomotive in skeleton form. You can tell it is the locomotive by it's cab and boiler door

3. The locomotive nearly completed. It has a stack and a new cab.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGlGuu5HZPA this video proof as well

Notice the extended firebox since they're converting it to burn coal

[silver2005]

I just might be contributing to this thread on Thursday...  

[MillenniumforceMike]

whenever I go to Coasterstock, My favorite part of the event is the KI&MVRR Behind the scenes part. It gives you a chance to get up to the locomotives and ask questions. Plus one the engineers named Steve gives an awesome presentation on the history of the KI&MVRR and the other Crown Locomotives.

[MillenniumforceMike]

and i'm still trying to figure out whatever happened to Carowinds 2/South Of The Border 2/Neverland Ranch 1

[MillenniumforceMike]

Update on the WOF R.R.

Eli's stack is about to be put back on and should have it's boiler test done soon.
Levi's overhaul was apparently more extensive then first thought (this was from Steve I mentioned two posts earlier)

[SonofBaconator]

Sometimes I wish we had a 3rd engine to work as a backup. CP has 3 that run pretty regularly with a 4th that operates on rare occasions.

[IndyGuy4KI]

Speaking of which, I took a lot of close ups at Coasterstock this part weekend and got them in the gallery yesterday. Might give them a look.

https://kicentral.com/photos/kings-island-and-miami-valley-rail-road#19994

[kimv1972]

I spent a few days at Doe River Gorge in June.  The Crown is getting its final brake piping (I painted most of it as they finished it) and modifications to the ashpan.  Sanders and bell ringer also need to be piped.  The boiler jacket has been added and is powder coated dark blue.  The sand dome and bell are yet to be mounted, but the handrails are polished and installed.  It currently has a round electric headlight, but someday a box may be made to put around it.  The big ugly green regulator next to the pump has been replaced.  The smokebox had been extended for the installation of a Lempor front end, but time, money, and manpower have put that on hold and it will have a standard blast nozzle for now.  It has been fired up twice and run a quarter mile through the first tunnel.  The limiting factor now is the spiking and tamping of 200+ brand new added crossties to convert the gorge from an 8 ton Plymouth line to a 25 ton Crown line.  The early Crowns had very narrow tires, so holding the gauge will be critical.  Pardee Point is not a place you want to derail.  From their calculations, it should have just enough power to pull two coaches on the 3%.  That is based on the fact that it has 4000# TE versus 5700# TE at Kings Island and we pulled six coaches on 1% at KI.  The weight of the early Crowns was not much less than the 5700# TE version, so the Factor of Adhesion is above 4 and should be good for dry rail.  Also we used power and traction references from a reprint of a Porter catalog that has a similar sized engine code name HADRIA.  The coaches that will be used were home built at Dry Gulch and are slightly shorter than the Crown coaches with longitudinal benches that should be lighter.  Since the last narrow gage steamer on the ET&WNC was #14 (there was no #13 - tradition!), this one I believe with be given #15.  The hope is to have it fired up and at least doing short demonstration runs at the end of August for the National Narrow Gauge Convention.  I plan to be there for that and will let you know how it went.

[kimv1972]

There has been a rumor that the Neverland engine (ex-Carowinds) which has been stored in a warehouse in Glendale, might have a future.  One potential buyer of Neverland might want it back.  The picture is the South of the Border look (ugggggggllllllllyyyyyy) when it was displayed there with the closed coaches that were built for #3 (now at Doe River).  It never ran there, but both #2 and the #3 coaches were also spotted unused in Vermont for a while.  I have never found where those coaches ended up.  I assume they were cut up for their trucks.

[kimv1972]

Although trees prevent you from taking this picture today, Crown #15 has made it this far in its two test runs.  The train has just exited Tunnel #2.  Doe River Gorge Ministries owns tunnels #2, #3, and #4, all blasted from solid rock.  They are using #2 and #3, but #4 will have to wait for the day when there is money to restore a bridge to get to it.  In all, they have about three miles of track in the gorge.  Yes, that engine is about the same size as the Crown.

[MillenniumforceMike]

Back in 2019, In my study halls around the start of the school year, I got bored so I made a art product with the majority of the 3 ft crown locomotives. I didn't add the one from Al Zawra'a Dream Park (couldn't find images), Doe River Gorge (was a skeleton so I did the huntsville depot version), and I think one of the Kirby Family Farm locomotives. The only duplicates of the locomotives are as follows Carowinds 2 (Carowinds, South Of The Border, and Neverland Ranch Versions) Old Dominion Line 552 (KD, Dry Gulch, and WOF Version) Old Dominon Line 601 (the KD and BGT Versions) BGT 5 (SFStl and BGT Versions) BGW 17 (Lakeside and BGW versions)

they're all probably innacurate as heck but that was my art skill back then

the only non crown on there is Carowinds 1

[SonofBaconator]

48 minutes ago, MillenniumforceMike said:

Back in 2019, In my study halls around the start of the school year, I got bored so I made a art product with the majority of the 3 ft crown locomotives. I didn't add the one from Al Zawra'a Dream Park (couldn't find images), Doe River Gorge (was a skeleton so I did the huntsville depot version), and I think one of the Kirby Family Farm locomotives. The only duplicates of the locomotives are as follows Carowinds 2 (Carowinds, South Of The Border, and Neverland Ranch Versions) Old Dominion Line 552 (KD, Dry Gulch, and WOF Version) Old Dominon Line 601 (the KD and BGT Versions) BGT 5 (SFStl and BGT Versions) BGW 17 (Lakeside and BGW versions)

they're all probably innacurate as heck but that was my art skill back then

the only non crown on there is Carowinds 1

Great work!

If I could acquire crowns from any point in time it would be Old Dominion Line #552, Tommy G Robertson #6, Lakeside #17, and KI #19. Those, aside from the European and African themed ones are the most unique.

[MillenniumforceMike]

I did these as well. The program I used decided to be very finnicky so it liked to mess some of the detail up. This was made beefore we found out where 552 and before I knew where hunstville 3 went so I based it off of those locomotives. The back story is that Dorney's cedar creek cannonball was meant to go to CW but never happened. So what if CW decided to get a train, this is what it would look like imo. The locomotives are named after famous people in canadian history.

[MillenniumforceMike]

1 minute ago, MillenniumforceMike said:

I did these as well. The program I used decided to be very finnicky so it liked to mess some of the detail up. This was made beefore we found out where 552 and before I knew where hunstville 3 went so I based it off of those locomotives. The back story is that Dorney's cedar creek cannonball was meant to go to CW but never happened. So what if CW decided to get a train, this is what it would look like imo. The locomotives are named after famous people in canadian history.

I'll have to do a map of it later

[kimv1972]

Crown builders photo of one of the CW engines.  Each train had 8 coaches, I think.  Some went to Dorney, Valleyfair, and Omaha Zoo.  Why 30" gage and so many coaches?  I'd like to know!  Perhaps 36" gage would require special licensing in Canada maybe?  The train was to operate around the Frontier Canada area as a way of soothing concerns about the park being too "American".  But cost or some other reason caused the entire Frontier Canada area to be deleted from construction and not emerge again for twenty years, leaving two orphaned trains.

[kimv1972]

Latest rumor is that Michael Jackson's Crown is at Helm and Son Amusements in Colton, California.  Can't confirm, but they have one long building that could easily hide it.

[MillenniumforceMike]

1 minute ago, kimv1972 said:

Latest rumor is that Michael Jackson's Crown is at Helm and Son Amusements in Colton, California.  Can't confirm, but they have one long building that could easily hide it.

I wouldn't be surprised. One of these days I may email and ask about it. It wouldn't hurt to ask but knowing how a company is, they'll probably say "We apologize but due to the privacy of our company, we cannot disclose wether we own the locomotive or not. We thank you for your question."

[SonofBaconator]

IMO they butchered #2

[MillenniumforceMike]

So I got bored and did this. we'll go to my own world for it

what if Canada's wonderland got a train in the Next 5 years and I got to design it, here's what I would do.

 

Image 1- The train would be called the Great Northwest Canadian Railway. It would be a nod to the name of the railroad it almost got, The Great Northwest Canadian Railroad

 

Image 2- The locomotives would be 36 in (3 ft) narrow gauge locomotives built by crown metal products. 552 would be named James MacDonald in honor of Canada's first Prime Minister (552 would be coming from KD/Dry Gulch/WOF. 1, 2, or 553 would be named Dudley Thomas in memory of Taft Broadcasting president at the time of Wonderland's opening. It would be coming from Caro, South Of The Border, And Neverland Ranch. To get it back to it's original design, it would be sent to strasburg or tweetsie (with tweetsie producing the parts) for a complete overhaul to make it look like it's carowinds days.

 

Image 3- The route would follow clockwise route. The engine house and car barn (highlighted in green) would be next to ghoster coaster. The blue are two stations one by med fair and Planet Snoopy, the other in water works. The main station would be the med fair station. Following the line, you would head across the path next to Vortex and then under Vortex past Yukon where it could take two routes. The first route could continue past and go around the dive loop and next to the path. The second route could go over the water and over the dive loop of Yukon. The line would go past WindSeeker and cross the path twice. Once on the path from Yukon to slingshot plaza, the next goes across the path to behemoth from Yukon on the old orbiter site. The line would then run along minebuster down towards the foot bridge where the second station would be similar to carowinds primary station. After the station it would continue past minebuster and loop around following the maintenance path and pass the rapids ride. it would then run in between the path next to Yukon's loop and Immelmann/ and the rapids. The track would pass across the path to the rapids entrance and old action theater. it would then run through the woods where some buildings could be placed. Then the track would pass silver streak and run along the maintenance road where more buildings would be placed on the right. The track would then run along ghoster coaster with the engine house right next to it. It then could go across the old dinos alive area or along the maintenance road. the track would then run along wilde beast then pass boomerang. then run across the path leading to Planet Snoopy then arrive back at med fair station which next to fly

 

[kimv1972]

Thanks for the great detail shots of #12.  Absolutely amazing how many "enhancement" have been added since I ran them in 1972-1973.  The piping in the cab is more that twice what they had when they were new.  Has #19 been running?  I've seen #12 go by from the road a couple times.

[MillenniumforceMike]

5 hours ago, kimv1972 said:

Thanks for the great detail shots of #12.  Absolutely amazing how many "enhancement" have been added since I ran them in 1972-1973.  The piping in the cab is more that twice what they had when they were new.  Has #19 been running?  I've seen #12 go by from the road a couple times.

if your asking me since I was at coasterstock, sadly it was not running. From what I heard 19 has been having some issues and has been in the engine house for a while. What the issues are, I got no clue.