bboyland Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Just got off the phone with PKI... She told me most likely no campground for 2006 she said they are thinking more like Spring 2007....Same BS I heard in 2005. I think they have no intentions of opening a new campground. Oh well Disney and Cedarpoint both were fun this year and I guess they will be for the next few years. Good bye PKI I will miss you, but I will not support an organization that does not support all forms of lodging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 It doesn't surprise me that the new campground won't be open for the 2006 season... With no announcement, and no visible construction going on as of yet, that would be a pretty tight timeframe. So, since you "will not support an organization that does not support all forms of lodging", I assume that also means your boycott extends to Universal Parks, the Busch Parks, Knotts Berry Farm, most Six Flags parks, and a host of other parks that do not offer both onsite hotels and camping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboyland Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 You got it and I am not alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 You got it and I am not alone. Unfortunately, it's a matter of Paramount not understanding revenue streams. This may be a situation where KOA may take the opportunity to open a camp and RV ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normal Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Well as sad as it is that they will not have a campgrounds next year.I will still make my anuual trek to Kings Island. There are other campgrounds in the area we stayed at one about 8 miles from the park.It was really nice now it was not near as convienant as staying on park grounds but oh well.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 You got it and I am not alone. Unfortunately, it's a matter of Paramount not understanding revenue streams. This may be a situation where KOA may take the opportunity to open a camp and RV ground. I think the revenue stream Viacom understood in this case was that 15% ownership (with no upfront cash) of a year-round full-service destination resort with an ADR of $200+ trumped the revenue opportunity of the current campground. From all indications, it does sound like building a new campground is still in their plans. Hopefully, the new campground will far exceed the old one. Joel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclaimer Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Just got off the phone with PKI... She told me most likely no campground for 2006 she said they are thinking more like Spring 2007....Same BS I heard in 2005. I think they have no intentions of opening a new campground. Oh well Disney and Cedarpoint both were fun this year and I guess they will be for the next few years. Good bye PKI I will miss you, but I will not support an organization that does not support all forms of lodging. It's too bad you base your decision on something this trivial. The park has stated that they want to get the campground back, newer and better. Part of the reason they probably aren't doing the campground next year is due to Great Wolf taking their time finalizing plans for the resort. Jeff stated at one of the IJ construction tours earlier this year that they were still waiting on things to be finalized with the resort...It took Great Wolf 'til May to finally officially announce things and get the ball rolling with PKI. Can't place the blame entirely on the park, as this resort is a joint venture. Just keep in mind this is something trivial...there are pleanty of lodging destinations around the park, even camping. If you are so unflexible with the park and their expansion plans, you're going to have a tough time in life when other things require some flexibility. Anyway, have fun next year with the long lines at Cedar Point, and the long trips down to Disney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Actually, as far as plans go, they are probably finalized, with regards to the construction of the Great Wolf Lodge. Construction has already begun, which means building permits have been issued, and all the plans have been approved by Warren County and presumably the city of Mason. I`m sure between building this resort, the new Nick area and Winterfest, the park has other things on their minds currently than a new campground. I`m sure they may be planning to install a new campground (that is why they have repeatedly asked about campgrounds on the surveys). It will just be a matter of time. Look how long it has taken them to prepar for Winterfest. They have been making preparations and doing surveys on it for about the past three years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I think the revenue stream Viacom understood in this case was that 15% ownership (with no upfront cash) of a year-round full-service destination resort with an ADR of $200+ trumped the revenue opportunity of the current campground. From all indications, it does sound like building a new campground is still in their plans. Hopefully, the new campground will far exceed the old one. Joel Basic fact is that it costs next to nothing to run a Camp/RV Park. I certainly did not say that the Great Wolf Lodge was a poor solution. In fact, it was one of the best solutions that the park has come to for some time. There is ample property still available that would facilitate a camping area and next to no money needed to create it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOPGUN1993 Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I saw people camping in the PKI hotel parking lot. About 15 campers!!! Did anyone else see this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Just give them time... I'm sure they have a camp ground in the works. Nothing set in stone, especially in this industry. Things get pushed back more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRider Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I guess I am one of the few that was glad to see the camp ground go and make way for Great Bear Lodge. GBL is one of the best decisions for PKI, basically a large money stream for free. No brainer decision for PKI if you ask me. They may put a campground back in, but I am sure PKI does not miss the rampat under age drinking that happened at the campground and also the numerous fights when they had senior night. I welcome GBL with open arms and will be booking my room ASAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejoker8388 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Just got off the phone with PKI... She told me most likely no campground for 2006 she said they are thinking more like Spring 2007....Same BS I heard in 2005. I think they have no intentions of opening a new campground. Oh well Disney and Cedarpoint both were fun this year and I guess they will be for the next few years. Good bye PKI I will miss you, but I will not support an organization that does not support all forms of lodging. So how exactly have you ever gone to PKI in the first place. Before the building of the Great Wolf Lodge PKI hadn't had any type of on site hotel or place to stay. Does this mean that you have never supported PKI because they have never had "all forms of lodging"? Personally, I also have never supported PKI because they have never offered a nudist colony where I can stay at my leiure in between riding rides. "I will not support an organization that doesn't support all forms of lodging" that is one of the most idiotic statements I've ever heard, no park offers "all forms of lodging". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Just got off the phone with PKI... She told me most likely no campground for 2006 she said they are thinking more like Spring 2007....Same BS I heard in 2005. I think they have no intentions of opening a new campground. Oh well Disney and Cedarpoint both were fun this year and I guess they will be for the next few years. Good bye PKI I will miss you, but I will not support an organization that does not support all forms of lodging. So how exactly have you ever gone to PKI in the first place. Before the building of the Great Wolf Lodge PKI hadn't had any type of on site hotel or place to stay. Does this mean that you have never supported PKI because they have never had "all forms of lodging"? Personally, I also have never supported PKI because they have never offered a nudist colony where I can stay at my leiure in between riding rides. "I will not support an organization that doesn't support all forms of lodging" that is one of the most idiotic statements I've ever heard, no park offers "all forms of lodging". You're right... they do need a nudist colony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I have not see anything about a large money stream from it. If its from the people visiting the park, I don't think 200 rooms of people is a large stream of money. The lease of the property would be where the money would be and I have seen no dollar amount on it. I also have not seen anything about the park getting this money from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Would you like a new ride or a campground not used by many? I think the public would like a new ride do you? Who knows it might be the big coaster in 2007 or a campground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclaimer Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Actually, as far as plans go, they are probably finalized, with regards to the construction of the Great Wolf Lodge. Construction has already begun, which means building permits have been issued, and all the plans have been approved by Warren County and presumably the city of Mason. I`m sure between building this resort, the new Nick area and Winterfest, the park has other things on their minds currently than a new campground. I`m sure they may be planning to install a new campground (that is why they have repeatedly asked about campgrounds on the surveys). It will just be a matter of time. Look how long it has taken them to prepar for Winterfest. They have been making preparations and doing surveys on it for about the past three years! That's what I was saying...it took them a long while to finalize things and get the ball rolling w/ construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I have not see anything about a large money stream from it. If its from the people visiting the park, I don't think 200 rooms of people is a large stream of money. The lease of the property would be where the money would be and I have seen no dollar amount on it. I also have not seen anything about the park getting this money from it. From the information that GWL has announced in their public statements the land is not actually leased. Instead, GWL traded PKI 15% ownership of the resort for the land. (That number makes sense since land costs are typically 12-15% of a hotel's total development costs.) What's not clear is how they're splitting profits...whether PKI will get 15% of income, or whether they're just taking an equity position. Based on GWL's chain-wide annual occupancy of 64%, and average daily per-room spending of $306, the resort should gross in the neighborhood of $28M per year. I'm sure that operating margins are pretty healthy for campgrounds/RV parks, but it still does require an investment to build one. KOA states that the average construction cost (excluding the cost of land) is $10-15K per campsite, or about $750,000 for a "normal" sized campground of 75-90 sites (http://ownakoa.com/ownakoa/build.htm). Still, that's considerably cheaper than hotel building costs...it costs roughly $3M to build a new Red Roof Inn, for instance. And, it will cost about $100M to build GWL at PKI. Of course, in this case GWL is incurring all of the construction (and operating) costs, while PKI is getting 15% ownership for "donating" the land. Although, I never used it myself, I certainly understand the appeal of camping for others. I hope the new campground really raises the bar...maybe not only traditional sites, but perhaps cabins ala Lighthouse Point at CP... Joel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normal Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 What the campgrounds do is for lower income families is it gives us a cheaper place to stay so we can spend multiple days at the park.Instead of spending one day in the park and 2 nights in the hotel.Believe it or not camping is making a huge comeback.....But I will not base my trip to PKI just because they do not have a campgrounds or not.However i do wish they still had them I loved waking up hearing Top Gun testing every morning.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOF/Z 4-ever Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 There are other campgrounds in the area. You dont have to stay in a campground that is on the parks ground you know! There is a wonderful campground 2 exits north of Kings Island on 71 with a great view of the Little Miami River. Also, you can get a site that is actually next to the river!! Did PKI's campsite have that? I don't think so. Why are soo many people too hard headed to go to another campground if they insist on camping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Although, I never used it myself, I certainly understand the appeal of camping for others. I hope the new campground really raises the bar...maybe not only traditional sites, but perhaps cabins ala Lighthouse Point at CP... I agree that I never had stayed at the campground, either. My point is that it's just a way to create an all around vacation desination. As far as the cabins go, I think that would be a great idea. Not sure if Parmount wants to get involved with that kind of responsibility but certainly could be something that they could pair and team to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normal Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 As far as the cabins go, I think that would be a great idea As for cabin's the old campgrounds had some cabins that could be rented they weren't big cabins but they had some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKlockster Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Who was responsible for supervising the Campground? Was it park security? Personally, if I was from out of town I would rather stay at a hotel than a campground. Like I might stay at a campground if I really don't have a lot of money but want to do a trip somewhere - since it is so cheap. But in general, I wouldn't. I have done my fair share of camping. I have camped at Yellowstone National Park three times, Ruby Reservoir twice, Red Lodge Montana and a camp in Salmon Idaho. And by camping - I mean sleeping bags and tents - none of this hard sided crap. But I don't particularly like tent camping. Woke up once, when I went to Red Lodge - with moose tracks right outside the tent door, that were not there when I went to sleep... So I don't get why someone would base their decision on whether or not to go to a theme park based on whether or not that park has their own campground? Like other people have said - there are other campgrounds close by. Besides - yeah PKI has never supported all forms of lodging. They just had the campground and the hotel. I think the nudist colony was on the third deck of the Eiffel Tower - the VIP deck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRider Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 So when does the nudist colony open up??? Once again as many have said GWL will provide a nice stream of cash with no expenses tied in. Also from what I have heard GWL will be 400 rooms and not the previously mentioned 200. This will be much bigger than the one in Sandusky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKlockster Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 401 Suites to be exact. All at the Great Wolf Lodge aka GWL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Personally, I am from out of town I would rather stay in my RV at the campground. I would not sleep on the ground in a tent. I would get a room if it was a need. Money has nothing to do with it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braves0511 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I will not support an organization that does not support all forms of lodging. Do you ever actually use all forms of lodging. or do you just not go to a park that doesn't have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby_Doo Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I welcome the new lodge at first I didnt like seeing the campground getting hauled off(like HBL) BUT I have quickly changed my mind about it this will be great and I cant wait to book my room. I hear a new campground is in the works...it may have a Nick theme or Movie theme and thats fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOF/Z 4-ever Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 See, they may bring back a campground for next year. Can we all calm down now???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKlockster Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Yeah the survey asked all kinds of questions about a themed campground. I sent my survey to my stepdad cause I knew he would get a good laugh out of it. He is one of those roughing it guys. In the area it asked - are there any other things you need for a campground - he wrote - all I need is level ground and potable water... Some of those options were crazy. High speed internet hookup at a campground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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