To Change, or Not to Change: PKI 2007

[CoastersNSich]

It is possible, as a rumor, though, that Cedar may keep the Paramount names on the five newly acquired parks, in the 2007 season. CF claims that it would cause confusion in the long term.

What do you think? Here's what I think:

How would dropping a name that most parkgoers don't use cause confusion? Do random surveys, among parkgoers, and ask them what they refer to the park north of Cincinnati as. I'm sure most don't outright say the full "Paramount's Kings Island" or even "PKI."

I made my point earlier in them keeping the Paramount name for 2006, but I think it would actually hurt to keep it long term. Also, as many have argued, the quality of the parks has actually declined under the Paramount name - theming, attention to detail, live entertainment, food, capacity of rides, etc.

I don't expect them to really restore Kings Island and other parks to their pre-Paramount ways completely. But please, CF, make the change - even if you DO keep Paramount themes in the park.

[King Maple The Tree King]

^I would like to see your proof that the capacity of rides has suffered under the Paramount name. While certain areas of theming and details have suffered others have improved, Paramount did not ruin the parks, it put them on the map, especially Kings Island. I dont know how well you remember the Taft/Keco days CoastersNsich, depending on your age, but they werent as grand as you think. Paramount did a lot of good for the park. You are just spoiled and I think most of you take for granted how wonderful Kings Island still is, it has been more profitable and performed better than ever before and had more money put into than Carl Linder ever would have cared to put in it. Paramount put so much into maintenance, especially for the coasters. Also CoastersNsich, what makes you so sure that CF will treat KI so well? Granted KI has beat CP in attendance lately and does gross over 3 million visitors per year, but CF now has a monopoly on the major parks in ohio and I'm pretty sure they dont view SFKK or HW as big threats. They're guest relations employees have the mentality of "your a guest in our park, you should be lucky to be here, dont whine so much". True KBF and CP get treated well but what about the other CF parks, I can vouch that they are good, but not CP and KBF good. Granted Dorney and WOF just got B&M's recently, but so did any new park the SF corporation aquired, and now look at SF. I think its safe to say that we need to take the CF aquisition with a grain of salt, they may not be the savior on the big horse leading us towards a Disney esque quality park.

[Gordon Bombay]

^Good point King, while the upkeep of theming has suffered at PKI it has not suffered at other parks, Paramount's Carowinds still has all its Top Gun theming working and on its other rides for the most part and is a well maintained park and the theming at PCW is very well up kept. I think the upkeep of theming at PKI has to due with the confusion as to whose job it is between too many departments who bicker over it. I think CF should keep the Paramount name as long as they keep up the theming and deliver movie quality rides, however they would have to pay Paramount for the rights so why pay to advertise for someone else? I think CF will drop the movie themes except for the Nickelodeon themes, if they can de-six flags geauga lake in 36 days i think they can de-paramount pki in an entire off season.

[Erosarrow05]

Why do people keep saying 'restore'. You act like Kings Island went from being a classic car - to a 1997 kia rio. (no offense to any rio drivers, im sure its a lovely car)

The 'many' that agreed to the decline of the park, have all been the 'paramount hate club'...

Will Cedar Fair keep the Paramount name??? Uh - no. Thats like driving a ford with toyota rims. Or even better, buying a Continental plane ticket, and demanding your seat on the United flight. This question, as with other timeless classics regarding how paramount: "sucks, destroyed the park, is cheap, over charges, stole great rides from us, cares not about the theming - blah blah blah.... has been beaten to death.

I may be on my own little wagon off in the distance - but when the paramount logo comes down off that sign, a very long chapter of the Kings Island history book will close. They have made lasting great installations and were able to keep the park competitive with CP. That in itself, is noteworthy.

Im just waiting for the announcement that Winterfest will be "postponed"... if this was a paramount announcement, well you know what kind of posts would follow - but since its the almighty CF at the wheel now - it will be okay.

im done now... goodnight!!!

[Gordon Bombay]

^And I agree with you, while I do believe some theming has suffered, I said its nto a direct problem from paramount, its been fine at other parks, I do believe Paramount did great things with the park and made it great, better than it ever was and ever couldve been under KECO.

[CoastersNSich]

As I said in my last paragraph, I DON'T expect, or necessarily want, the parks to return to their pre-Paramount form. Of course, times and tastes have changed in the past 15 years. And also, I might have been unfair lumping every Paramount park into the same pile - some are better done than others - I sorta envy Carowinds!

BUT, I have felt that in recent years, that the park (yes, PKI) never reached its true potential as a Hollywood theme park, but became more of a 'budget themer.'

No doubt that 1993-2006 has been a successful era for the park. Some years, they out-drew Cedar Point! I just question it being "the best."

I'm not in the "Hate Paramount Club," as I frequent the park to this day. But, if there's a choice between the incumbent and something else, I'd choose the latter. I've been to several other chain parks, including Cedar Point, and overall find CP better than PKI. My hope is that Cedar Fair would make it into THE regional theme park for families AND thrill-seekers that should be. Hell, did Cedar Point SERIOUSLY compete against KI? The two parks are about 4 hours apart.

Those are my opinions, which I continue to stand behind.

My thesis here is that if Cedar Fair decides to stay with the Paramount names next season, they may miss out on a great opportunity - a chance to expand their identity.

[italianchef]

Considering that Paramount no longer owns the park, I prefer that CF drop the "Paramount" name. Besides, most folks refer to the park as "Kings Island" anyway as it's easier.

And on a personal note, I am in the mood for some change. It makes thing interesting and more entertaining.

Have a great day!

Italian Chef

[The Interpreter]

I don't think CBS would have kept the Paramount name on the park itself.

Why on earth would Cedar Fair do so?

As to the movie theming, I can see that being phased out over a longer period of time, perhaps...

Also, it is good to remember the park went from Lindner to:

Paramount Communications

Viacom (under various subsidiary companies)

CBS Corporation

I think the first two WERE good for the park. Far better than Carl Lindner would have been.

As for CBS, I don't have time to preach again, you've heard it before, and besides, you saw it for yourself. CBS said they weren't interested in the park business. And then they proved it.

[CoastersNSich]

The Kings Island/KECO/Paramount/etc. Ownership Timeline

1969 Taft Broadcasting acquires Coney Island, and begins planning a new theme park in Warren County, 25 miles north of downtown Cincinnati.

1971 Coney Island's final season, as its replacement, "Kings Island" is being built.

1972 Taft Broadcasting opens Kings Island on April 29

1974 Lion Country Safari opens as a preview section of Kings Dominion near Richmond, VA.

1975 Kings Dominion officially opens. Taft acquires Carowinds, which opened in 1973, and is located on the NC/SC border, near Charlotte.

1981 Taft and a Canadian partner open Canada's Wonderland near Toronto, ON.

1983 A group of park executives acuired Taft's theme park division, becomes the Kings Entertainment Company.

1985 Marriott sells its two Great America theme parks. The Gurnee, IL park is sold to Six Flags, and is rebranded SFGAm. The Santa Clara, CA park is purchased by the City of Santa Clara, to stop the park from being redeveloped. KECO assumes operations, whom several years later, purchases the park from the City.

As part of a partnership, KECO opens Australia's Wonderland near Sydney.

1987 Around this time, KECO reluctantly sells Kings Island, to Great American Financial/Carl H. Lindner. KECO still manages Kings Island.

1992 KECO, including Great America, Kings Dominion, Canada's Wonderland, and Carowinds, sold to Paramount Communications. Australia's Wonderland sold (the park later closes for good in 2004). Lindner sells Kings Island to Paramount, forming the chain that will be called Paramount Parks.

1993 The five parks open as Paramount parks. I.E. Kings Island is now known as Paramount's Kings Island.

1994 Viacom Corp. acquires Paramount Comm.. Viacom properties, such as Nickelodeon, begin to appear in Paramount Parks.

2006 January Viacom splits into two companies. Paramount Parks become part of the new CBS Corporation, whom quickly announces its intention to divest the parks.

2006 May Cedar Fair, L.P., announces that it will purchase Paramount Parks for $1.24 billion.

2006 June Cedar Fair, L.P. completes its acquisition of Paramount Parks, and now owns twelve parks, including all three major amusement parks in Ohio: Cedar Point, Geauga Lake and Kings Island.

[KIBeast]

I think it should go back to King's Island. I also think that most of the GP already refer to it as King's Island and not Paramount's King's Island. However, CF may be taking in to consideration that it would be costly to replace the brand new Paramount sign in the parking lot. Maybe they are thinking that they could get another season or two out of the sign before they plunk down a huge chunk of change for a new one. Of course, there is the possibility that I am talking out of my butt too!

[PKIVortex]

I think they should get rid of the Paramout name. If Paramount doesn't have anything to do with the parks, why call them Paramount's ___________. I think it should just be known as Kings Island from 2007 on.

[KIfan73]

I think that the "Paramount" above the KI name has just always been sort of an asterisk to most people. I think they've done fine with the park; however, I've never heard anyone that I've talked to ever refer to the park as "Paramount's Kings Island". I don't think most people would ever notice whether its there or not. I think its mostly viewed as like a sponsor of a sporting event. Winston Cup, Nextel Cup, its still NASCAR. A small percentage of enthusiasts pay attention to things like this, but not the majority.

By the beginning of next season, I think the "Paramount" name should quietly be removed. Let the sun shine down on "Kings Island" again!

[RingMaster]

I guess I'm one of the very, very few who wants the Paramount name to stay, and it's not because I grew up in the Viacom/Paramount/CBS era. I'd rather ride a coaster with ties to a popular film or television show than a generic coaster out in the middle of concrete. Every ride based off of a show/film has had some form of theming added to it to make it stand out and be unique. Regular, themeless rides just blend in as generic amusement park rides and lack any extra wow factor (other than what the ride has to offer for thrills).

Yeah, I know Paramount has problems with upkeeping the theming on certain attractions, but think of it this way--would you rather ride Tomb Raider and the Italian Job as themeless, out in the open, no shaded thrill rides? Cedar Fair's got a wonderful opportunity to use a movie license to their advantage and invest in it wisely (no butchering licenses like Six Flags and the numerous Superman/Batman/Goliath coasters), and not resort to cheap, generic titles for their B&M coasters you people adore so much. I can think of several Beemers that can tie in well with Paramount flicks, regardless of if the movie was good or not, such as The Core, Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, Paycheck, Mission: Impossible, Aeon Flux, and a few others.

What I don't want to see is for Kings Island to transform into another Cedar Point with 200-300 foot coasters every 10 feet, and no new rides the whole family can enjoy. Because the people who want the park to be restored to its original fame and glory are the same folks who want a 300 foot B&M or Intamin resting in its own parking lot and the end of these so-called "no-thrills family rides."

Which is why I was rooting for Busch to buy at least Kings Island. PKI seems to fit in more with BGE and BGA than with Cedar Point and Knott's Berry Farm. Yes, they have Beemers (not sure about Intamins, though), but they are well-themed, top-notch thrill rides. For God's sakes, they even threw in a Spiderman clone!! If they had the money to do THAT, surely they had the money to buy at least one or two Paramount Parks. I'd MUCH rather have a Spiderman clone with a cool theme than a generic Beemer in a parking lot as a new 2007 attraction.

I'm probably going to be hated on the boards for not liking Cedar Fair, but I honestly don't like them. And I'd rather root for Paramount to stay. Better to be facing stalactites in a dark, air-conditioned building than flipping around outside in the hot summer sun with nothing to look at but steel in concrete.

[The Interpreter]

Cedar Fair didn't go to the touble of buying Kings Island (and thus getting a monopoly on Ohio theme parks) so it could sell it to Busch or anyone else. They said they want to operate the park, and I, for one, believe them.

They also say they understand that the Paramount Parks were family oriented, and that they intend to keep that focus. I believe that, too; at least for a while.

As for reusing names across the chain, Paramount (and its predecessors) did it to; a la for instance Tomb Raider, Vortex, Top Gun, Boomerang Bay, Flight of Fear, Hurler, etc.

And they were starting to engage in ride rotation. Miss CBS all you want...but it might get lonely over there...

[adam12]

I guess I'm one of the very, very few who wants the Paramount name to stay, and it's not because I grew up in the Viacom/Paramount/CBS era. I'd rather ride a coaster with ties to a popular film or television show than a generic coaster out in the middle of concrete. Every ride based off of a show/film has had some form of theming added to it to make it stand out and be unique. Regular, themeless rides just blend in as generic amusement park rides and lack any extra wow factor (other than what the ride has to offer for thrills).

Yeah, I know Paramount has problems with upkeeping the theming on certain attractions, but think of it this way--would you rather ride Tomb Raider and the Italian Job as themeless, out in the open, no shaded thrill rides? Cedar Fair's got a wonderful opportunity to use a movie license to their advantage and invest in it wisely (no butchering licenses like Six Flags and the numerous Superman/Batman/Goliath coasters), and not resort to cheap, generic titles for their B&M coasters you people adore so much. I can think of several Beemers that can tie in well with Paramount flicks, regardless of if the movie was good or not, such as The Core, Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, Paycheck, Mission: Impossible, Aeon Flux, and a few others.

What I don't want to see is for Kings Island to transform into another Cedar Point with 200-300 foot coasters every 10 feet, and no new rides the whole family can enjoy. Because the people who want the park to be restored to its original fame and glory are the same folks who want a 300 foot B&M or Intamin resting in its own parking lot and the end of these so-called "no-thrills family rides."

Which is why I was rooting for Busch to buy at least Kings Island. PKI seems to fit in more with BGE and BGA than with Cedar Point and Knott's Berry Farm. Yes, they have Beemers (not sure about Intamins, though), but they are well-themed, top-notch thrill rides. For God's sakes, they even threw in a Spiderman clone!! If they had the money to do THAT, surely they had the money to buy at least one or two Paramount Parks. I'd MUCH rather have a Spiderman clone with a cool theme than a generic Beemer in a parking lot as a new 2007 attraction.

I'm probably going to be hated on the boards for not liking Cedar Fair, but I honestly don't like them. And I'd rather root for Paramount to stay. Better to be facing stalactites in a dark, air-conditioned building than flipping around outside in the hot summer sun with nothing to look at but steel in concrete.

I think you are full of crap! Kings Island needs to get back in the game and start breaking records again. Also at the same time provide GREAT entertainment! Yeah, we wasted 15 years, but Cedar Point has been around since 1870 and is still going strong. That being said we have MANY great years to come!

You won't be disappointed! I promise there will be something for everyone!

-adam12

[The Interpreter]

Breaking records?

Top Thrill Dragster beat records.

Kingda Ka beat records.

Son of Beast beat records.

I, for one, would rather they built great, reliable attractions than focus on breaking records.

Sigh.

[adam12]

Breaking records?

Top Thrill Dragster beat records.

Kingda Ka beat records.

Son of Beast beat records.

I, for one, would rather they built great, reliable attractions than focus on breaking records.

Sigh.

We can have all that! Build great attractions, but every 5 years, build a real gut-buster that breaks records!

-adam12

[The Interpreter]

And all those coasters beat records...with their cost, unreliability and down time.

Thanks, but I'd rather NOT see record breakers.

And with Cedar Fair taking on more than most think they can chew, I don't see them spending that kind of money at Kings Island or anywhere else for quite some time anyway.

Not to mention that one of those record breaking attractions in the park right now is under investigation and it must be determined what is to be done about it...

[CoastersNSich]

Hey, RingMaster really gave an honest explanation, rather than flaming, about why he likes the Paramount name, and the Paramount years. I, too, once liked Paramount's attitude - it may have been a real contrast of the previous two decades at KI, but it seemed that the new owners would seriously take stuff up a notch. Being able to simulate a hit movie, wheter in a theater or a coaster, was truly exciting to me.

Of course, executing all this to its proper level required a ton of money - the money we'd expect a big conglomerate to spend - to be at the level of the full-blown Florida parks that Disney and Universal have, and be true to the slogan "The Best of Hollywood Entertainment."

Unfortunately, the previous owners, Viacom and CBS, did not live up to the reputation and expectations that many guests, including myself, had expected from the park.

On a side note, I am not asking Cedar Fair to rid the park of everything related to Paramount. Some of the ride names were great, such as Drop Zone and Top Gun, and I hope some of them stay beyond this season. However, I just feel that leaving the Paramount namebrand on the park name would be wrong for Cedar Fair and the five new parks they just acquired.

Cedar Fair may try to prove me wring. They could make the parks worthy of the Paramount name, but knowing their history, they're better at running solid amusement parks than doing full-blown theming. And the former is what I want Kings Island to be more like.

[criminaljustice]

Something I've noticed at Kings Island is not what "Paramount" has or hasnt done, it's the guests who visit, and destroy park property. I rode IJ last season when it was very new, and about a month later when I rode the speakers in the cars were busted out. I rode Vortex, and saw someone had wrote how much they loved their highschool sweatheart. This would be a pain in my A$$ if I were management. It's not something that seems to happen a little bit, but something that continues on very frequently. We sit here and blame "Paramount" for that stuff, but it's the very people who visit the park who are to blame. I've seen people throw trash on the ground, and beleive me I said something. I've been going to KI since before I can remember, and the same crap happens from the people who don't care, and unfortunately those people don't read this site. CF will not be able to waive a magic wand and make it go away. They will have the money (given SOB's outcome gets taken care of) to keep up with the constant destruction by those among us at KI who could care less. I've seen this type of stuff at many Cincinnati attractions, like the zoo, aqarium, newport, and stadiums. The "don't trash the Nati" campaign needs to be extended throughout southwest Ohio.

[The Interpreter]

Believe it or not, vandalism in Cincinnati (and most of the Midwest) is trivial compared to that seen in parks in Orlando, New Jersey, California or even Chicago. And it can be substantially reduced by three things:

* Constant, vigilant security, and

* Consistent, unvarying prosecution of offenders and seeking compensation for damages done, and

* Immediate restoration and repair so that it is clear the owner cares and there is no invitation to others with the implication that nothing will happen to the offender.

At least under prior management, there was no evidence of the latter two to the public at Kings Island. It was in a Cedar Fair shop in Pennsylvania where I first saw a bright orange sign blaring: Want A Free Ride In A Police Car? Steal Something from This Shop. We Prosecute. EVERY TIME. NO EXCEPTIONS.

[WooferBearATL]

It's sad that a park would put that type of sign up.

The park has always utilized undercover security to monitor for shoplifters and this has always been affective.

[The Interpreter]

My point is Eastern PA is not Cinci. You do what you got to do....

[THE_BEASTmaster]

I'm glad that Cedar Fair bought the parks because that means we can get some better quality rides at KI. I to don't want to see record breaking rides there, but more reliable rides like a B&M or Gravity Group.

Paramount has always cut corners to save money when they install the ride itself. Besides SOB, they would get the cheapest coaster companies (Vekoma, Premiere, RCCA, and Caprio) to manufacture the ride then fork out a lot of money to "decorate" the ride. Just about every coaster they had bought had problems with not opening up on time. At least Cedar Fair can get these parks relible rides that can open on time.

We could see some good shops that can sell t-shirts of every adult coaster there. I never see FoF t-shirts anymore since the ride opened. Why is that?

Well thats' all of my ranting.

Bill

[CoastersNSich]

I remember seeing signs throughout KI, either before or into the first few years of the Paramount ownership, that said something like:

Anyone caught defacing park property will be ejected.

There used to be signs at the Grand Carrousel, probably some other rides as well. There's one such sign that still exists somewhere in The Beast queue, before the "Beast Canyon Cold Drinks" building.

I know you can't totally prevent vandalsim, but still, parks could do a little more to mask/erase/remove it - and rebuke those who do it. One way they could reduce it is to take down the tunnel walls surrounding the brakes at The Racer. No more "mArk LeviN wUz heEr"

[CoastersRZ]

I believe that there is one of those signs over in line for Scooby Doo and the Haunted Castle as well.

[Vortex]

Im just waiting for the announcement that Winterfest will be "postponed"... if this was a paramount announcement, well you know what kind of posts would follow - but since its the almighty CF at the wheel now - it will be okay.

im done now... goodnight!!!

In the park they took down everything that had Winter Fest on it also the maps. Now it says Nick or Treat. So I think Winter Fest is no longer. Also they are not selling any tickets to Winter Fest.

[PKIVortex]

Im just waiting for the announcement that Winterfest will be "postponed"... if this was a paramount announcement, well you know what kind of posts would follow - but since its the almighty CF at the wheel now - it will be okay.

im done now... goodnight!!!

In the park they took down everything that had Winter Fest on it also the maps. Now it says Nick or Treat. So I think Winter Fest is no longer. Also they are not selling any tickets to Winter Fest.

Cedar Fair said back in May that we would know for sure by Labor Day Weekend if they would be a Winterfest in 2006. I hope they had it, it was fun last year when I went.

[TOPGUN1993]

Wow so this may mean my WinterFest posters are soon to be rare ?

Click For Pictures

[PKIVortex]

Yes if they indeed don't have it. I wish they would have it though for 2006 and then decide what they can do better with it.