KIfan73 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I know that there has been endless speculation about what Cedar Fair is going to do with our park. Its easy to go on and on and on. What do you think people will be saying in 10-15 years? As an example, I would think Paramount's influence on Kings Island, looking back on the last 13 years, could be summed up as: Traditional amusement park became family-oriented quasi-theme park. What do you see in the crystal ball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 What do I think people will be saying? Honestly? "Remember when Cedar Fair owned Kings Island...." That's what I figure they will probably be saying. Kings Island will still be there. I doubt seriously Kings Island will be owned by Cedar Fair though. It's going to be a very interesting ride, while it lasts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKlockster Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I hope it is. I hate being tossed around from company to company. The park never gets any stability - and it seems like nobody wants it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan73 Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 Wait, you don't think Cedar Fair will own it very long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby_Doo Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Nope because once its payed off you get rid of it Really how much is CF in debt? I forget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKlockster Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 About two billion - the same as Six Flags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 One HUGE difference between the two companies is corporate structure. Six Flags is a stock company. Cedar Fair is a Limited Partnership, with unit holders. The unit holders have become accustomed to a tidy income from their Cedar Fair investments. So much so that Cedar Fair has borrowed MORE money to pay them income in the coming years. I am sure this makes sense to somebody. There will be strong pressure on Cedar Fair to produce results...and now. Much more so than a stock company....it took years before Mr. Snyder of the Washington Redskins fame came along and threw old Six Flags management out. Cedar Fair has one huge advantage, though. The commonly available units give one NO say-so in how the company is run. Only a much rarer class of ownership gets any say in that at all. But they must be kept happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastfan11 Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Ill be a rock star,Ill be rich, Ill buy Kings Island, Ill invite you all, Feel happy Peace out! Collin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKlockster Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Ill be a rock star,Ill be rich, Ill buy Kings Island, Ill invite you all, Feel happy Peace out! Collin You mean... C'mon get happy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstrwomann Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I think people will be saying remember when Paramount owned the parks it was such a nicer park with movie theming, season pass perks, good shows and parades, we want Paramount to buy back the parks. We miss our Paramount parks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan73 Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Sounds like many of you are saying no big changes, as far as from a visitor's viewpoint: "Quasi-theme park to higher-profiting, clean, marginally-themed park?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstrwomann Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Paramount please buy Paramount parks back. We miss you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I've said nothing of the kind. I, for one, am not sure even Cedar Fair knows for sure what it intends to do with the Paramount Parks. This is a river boat gamble...Cedar Fair was/is one of the best operators in the business...but the Paramount Parks and the Cedar Fair parks were NOT as similar as many would like to think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I think people will be saying remember when Paramount owned the parks it was such a nicer park with movie theming, season pass perks, good shows and parades, we want Paramount to buy back the parks. We miss our Paramount parks. LOL OK that's the second funniest thing I've read on the board tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 That does it. If someone says they want Mr. Lindner back (and means it), I'm going to bed. And hoping not to have nightmares! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 That does it. If someone says they want Mr. Lindner back (and means it), I'm going to bed. And hoping not to have nightmares! I got along well with Mr. Lindner. He always treated us well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 The employees, perhaps. The park? Hardly. And KECO managed the park for Mr. Lindner. Their contract was up the year that Paramount Communications bought the park. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 The employees, perhaps. The park? Hardly. And KECO managed the park for Mr. Lindner. Their contract was up the year that Paramount Communications bought the park. . . LOL I know, I was a KECO employee. The only influence was that we had Ice Cream Shoppe Remodled (which I got to manage!) and Chiquita Island. Then of course the Ice Cream Carts, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersNSich Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 As an example, I would think Paramount's influence on Kings Island, looking back on the last 13 years, could be summed up as: Traditional amusement park became family-oriented quasi-theme park. What do you see in the crystal ball? I'd argue that Kings Island started as a theme park in 1972, with five themed areas. While the rides, for the most part, may not have been heavily themed, the colors, architecture, signage, music, even uniforms matched an area's theme well. The 1974 addition of a sixth theme land focusing on an African safari was very true of this. Though in the later 80s and early 1990s, it may have loosened a bit, but Kings Island for its first twenty seasons can be considered a theme park, even if one section of it rivaled a traditional amusement park. Enter Paramount in 1993. Rides were installed regardless of an area's theme, but began to have heavy themes in some cases. Slowly, specific ride uniforms (Top Gun, Phantom Theater, Flight of Fear) disappeared, and in some cases, the appearance of rides began to look cheaper. Paramount's Kings Island would still be a theme park, but much looser in the later 15 seasons than the first 20 - not the world-class quality caliber theme park we thought it would be. In the future, the new version Kings Island will be an overall cleaner park and more committed to thirll rides and some larger roller coasters. There will be more shows, more sit-down restaurants, but less, if not none, future installations of heavily-themed rides. Capacity on rides will be improved. How long will Cedar Fair be the owner of our beloved park? I'll guess that it can be measured in decades, whether its two, three, five - hell, even ten. This is not a company that will sell off a successful, profitable park just for the heck of it. If that logic of buying parks to sell later at a profit were true, some of their parks, like Dorney, Knott's, and maybe another would have been sold. They would have never acquired Geauga Lake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Interpreter, your statement that KECO managed the park for Mr. Lindner is not completely accurate. Carl did not buy his interest in KECO until 1987. KECO bought the parks from TAFT in 1983 as part of a leveraged buy out. This buyout was led by Nelson Schwab III among other former executives including Jack Rouse, who now owns his own firm in Cincinnati. In 1987, Carl Lindner purchased KECO for $150 million, but continued to let them manage the parks. Yes, he did announce that he would cancel KECO`s management deal in 1993 and was going to manage the parks on his own. But we all know that Paramount Communications bought the parks on July 31st, 1992. Why does everyone think that Cedar Fair will not own Kings Island or the other Paramount Parks in ten years, or x years down the road? I think that Cedar Fair will hold onto the parks for quite some time. I mean, you don`t just buy five parks for $1.24 billion and decide later that you didn`t want them. Yes, Cedar Fair is taking a big risk, but I think that they are in it for the long haul and will not be discourage if the immediate results are not as high as expected. They know how to run a theme park and will hopefully make Kings Island an even better place than it is today. Not to mention, make KI turn an even bigger profit. I think that Cedar Fair owning the park will mean wiser installs of rides. Such as not theming a ride to a marginally successful movie. Hopefully, the emphasis will be more on the ride experience than just the "Magic of the Movies" experience. My only dissapointment so far is that they decided to can WinterFest without giving it a second go around with some tweaks to try and fix it. I still feel that it could be a successful event if priced appropriately (it was overpriced last year compared to similar events). Oh well. The next few years will certainly be interesting at Kings Island to say the least. And this then ends my extremely long post. Thanks for reading it all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Actually, by the time Paramount bought the parks, Mr. Lindner (through Great American Financial) was the holder of Kings Island...but to my knowledge, he did NOT have an interest in Dominion, Carowinds, Wonderland or Great America in California. Paramount only agreed to buy the KECO parks if they could also buy Kings Island. . .as part of this transaction, the parks were brought together again so that they could be sold to Paramount Communications...though a small part of the Canadian park remained privately owned for some time after the initial sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Yes, Kings Island was wholly owned by Lindner. Yes, when the KECO parks were sold to Paramount in 1992, KECO only had a 20% stake in Canada`s Wonderland. JDS Investments, Ltd, and Bramalea Ltd. owned the other 80% of the park (they were the developers of the park). In 1993, Paramount purchased their 80% stake in the park for $55.1 million (Canadian). Canada`s Wonderland was then rebranded Paramount Canada`s Wonderland in 1994. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Yep, and Lindner bought out the rest of KECO in 1992 so the parks could all be sold to Paramount Communications. It really is a complicated matter...and much of what is out there is either incomplete or in some cases flat out inaccurate. This is about as accurate as anything I have seen, though incomplete: http://timelines.home.insightbb.com/taft.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Yeah. But see, Carl Lindner also purchased Taft Broadcasting, who still owned Coney Island. When Lindner bought Kings Island in 1987, he also bought out Taft Broadcasting (through American Finanacial) and renamed Taft Broadcasting became known as Great American Broadcasting. Great American Broadasting eventually became known as Citicasters before being sold to Jacor Communications, which was later bought out by Clear Channel Communications, which is still in existance today. In fact, they own several TV and radio stations in the Cincinnati area (WKRC-Channel 12 tv and, WLW-700, WKRC, WSAI, WCKY on the AM band, as well as WEBN (102.7), WOFX (92.5), WKFS (107.1) and WVMX (94.1) on the fm dial. In 1991, Carl Lindner sold Coney Island to his long time friend Ronald Walker for $3.8 million. Ronald passed away unexpectedely in 1997, and his family wanted to consolidate their assets at Coney Island, so they sold Americana to Jerry Couch. Today, Coney Island is still owned by Brenda Walker, the late Ronald Walker`s wife. She still frequents the park on occasion. Just an FYI, a lot of this information can be found in the history section of this site! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Yes, Kings Island was wholly owned by Lindner. Yes, when the KECO parks were sold to Paramount in 1992, KECO only had a 20% stake in Canada`s Wonderland. JDS Investments, Ltd, and Bramalea Ltd. owned the other 80% of the park (they were the developers of the park). In 1993, Paramount purchased their 80% stake in the park for $55.1 million (Canadian). Canada`s Wonderland was then rebranded Paramount Canada`s Wonderland in 1994. Maybe so, but Canada's Wonderland was wholely managed and operated by KECO. The interesting story is that we were on a supervisors visit to Canada's Wonderland when we found out that Carl Lindner had purchased Kings Island. The thought was that there was a real chance that we did not have jobs to return to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam12 Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Ill be a rock star,Ill be rich, Ill buy Kings Island, Ill invite you all, Feel happy Peace out! Collin Most rock stars aren't worth enough to buy Kings Island. Does anyone know of a website that lists the net worth of rock stars? I bet there are only 4 or 5 of them that could pay cash and probably only about 20 of them that could finance it. That being said, I would recommend going to school and learning how to manage your money. Maybe one day you will be successful enough to purchase such a place. -adam12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragerunner Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 People will say, "Kings Island Who?", Oh you mean 'Busch Gardens America'. I think there is a chance that Kings Island will be sold by Cedar Fair within the next 5 years. With the coming recession (starting in '07 - lead by the housing downturn) Cedar Fair may find a need to sell a couple of parks to lower their debt since revenue will be down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Bowser Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 The only thing I'm upset about is how Cedar Fair Canned WinterFest I go to more Christmas themed events than I do Halloween and for me and my family it was huge let down when they canned WF. I do think CF will own the chain longer than Paramount did...I'm starting to think that Nick will be phased out of the parks and replaced by Snoopy and crew which is all right by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIBeast Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I am highly doubting that Cedar Fair will sell of Kings Island within the next five years. Or ten or maybe even twenty? Why would they sell off their parks that soon? Doesn't make any sense unless suddenly the whole Paramount part of their chain tanks, which is highly unlikely. Where did all of these negative posters come from? Suddenly, no one likes that CF bought out Paramount? I knew a few people were not happy with this, but not this many. Have that many people changed their minds? Here are my few words: Cedar Fair is the best company in the amusement park biz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Attack! Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I sure hope Cedar Fairs hangs onto KI and just keeps it for a while and lets it grow. All the new policies and stuff are just annoying and while we still are yet to see the big changes- uniform, new attractions, ride and other policies. I would just hate to go through it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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