New SOB Info

[PKIVortex]

Here is some information about Son of Beast from an interview from Dick Kinzel.

QUOTE

Q: Kings Island had the well-publicized problem last year when more than two dozen people were injured on the Son of Beast. Has that ride reopened?

A: No, it hasn’t reopened.

That happened 10 days after the acquisition. It will reopen this summer, hopefully by Memorial Day. The loop has been taken out of it. It was the only wooden coaster that had a loop.

It’ll probably be a slower ride and a series of brakes have been put on it. New trains have been put on it. When it opens, we’re going to be sure it will be safe.

source: http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stori...&thispage=1

[Delirium_Guy]

Here is some information about Son of Beast from an interview from Dick Kinzel.

QUOTE

Q: Kings Island had the well-publicized problem last year when more than two dozen people were injured on the Son of Beast. Has that ride reopened?

A: No, it hasn't reopened.

That happened 10 days after the acquisition. It will reopen this summer, hopefully by Memorial Day. The loop has been taken out of it. It was the only wooden coaster that had a loop.

It'll probably be a slower ride and a series of brakes have been put on it. New trains have been put on it. When it opens, we're going to be sure it will be safe.

source: http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stori...&thispage=1

That interview was a good read. I still say its more of a "if" it reopens situation, guess time will tell. I did enjoy the part where he was comparing the two operations to one another. Cedar Fair was great at marketing to families with teens and Paramount had the families with smaller kids nailed. The intention is to marry the two. The old Cedar Fair parks will get some more family geared attractions and the Paramount Parks will take the families with teen route. Sounds good to me.

- Todd

[stewwill]

Here is some information about Son of Beast from an interview from Dick Kinzel.

QUOTE

Q: Kings Island had the well-publicized problem last year when more than two dozen people were injured on the Son of Beast. Has that ride reopened?

A: No, it hasn’t reopened.

That happened 10 days after the acquisition. It will reopen this summer, hopefully by Memorial Day. The loop has been taken out of it. It was the only wooden coaster that had a loop.

It’ll probably be a slower ride and a series of brakes have been put on it. New trains have been put on it. When it opens, we’re going to be sure it will be safe.

source: http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stori...&thispage=1

It's obivious to me at least that unfortunately, SOB had design flaws. To much ride and to little engineering. I wonder if it could be re-engineered to operate at the speed it was supposed to? Werner Stengel (I hope I spelled thatv right) did the design and I know there was some kind of law suit regarding it's design or construction. The Beast was designed in house. I don't know if the same people worked for KI at the time SOB was proposed. It's a shame someone like Curits Summers couldn't have designed SOB. He designed some great woodies including one at CP. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems CF is trying to make the best of a bad situation. Sounds like it Son of Beast wont be a son, maybe a distant uncle you only see at Xmas?

[DropZone99]

awesome.

[Delirium_Guy]

Here is some information about Son of Beast from an interview from Dick Kinzel.

QUOTE

Q: Kings Island had the well-publicized problem last year when more than two dozen people were injured on the Son of Beast. Has that ride reopened?

A: No, it hasn't reopened.

That happened 10 days after the acquisition. It will reopen this summer, hopefully by Memorial Day. The loop has been taken out of it. It was the only wooden coaster that had a loop.

It'll probably be a slower ride and a series of brakes have been put on it. New trains have been put on it. When it opens, we're going to be sure it will be safe.

source: http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stori...&thispage=1

It's obivious to me at least that unfortunately, SOB had design flaws. To much ride and to little engineering. I wonder if it could be re-engineered to operate at the speed it was supposed to? Werner Stengel (I hope I spelled thatv right) did the design and I know there was some kind of law suit regarding it's design or construction. The Beast was designed in house. I don't know if the same people worked for KI at the time SOB was proposed. It's a shame someone like Curits Summers couldn't have designed SOB. He designed some great woodies including one at CP. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems CF is trying to make the best of a bad situation. Sounds like it Son of Beast wont be a son, maybe a distant uncle you only see at Xmas?

Ha. Curtis Summers. While some great designs back in the day, I'd hardly label Mean Streak at CP a successful one. Every huge wood coaster that he and Charlie Dinn worked together on quickly turned to crap.....Texas Giant, Hercules, Mean Streak and so on.

I don't think the design on SOB is to blame at all. Does anyone NOT remember the fact that Paramount Parks ended up taking on the feat of being the general contractors for SOB? I put most, if not ALL the blame on PP. For starters taking on such a massive project that was far beyond what they were capable of handling was stupid. Isn't it ironic that in the lawsuit the ONE party that wasn't a part of it was Premier Rides? The trains weren't to blame for any of the problems the ride had then, however in 2007 they suddenly ARE the problem?

Honestly, call it like it is. SOB is a wash and should have never seen the light of day. Hands down the worse investment in any park, anywhere. Followed closely by the likes of Top Thrill Dragster and Kingda Ka of course. At least Dragster can somewhat run reliably now.....

- Todd,

[The Interpreter]

Kingda Ka is running reliably so far this year.

And as far as Cedar Fair is concerned, I still anticipate that they will be expecting CBS/Viacom to pony up on any settlements/verdicts against Cedar Fair (note that Paramount Parks is a defendant in the SOB cases so far, and is apparently a part of Simon & Schuster, the publisher once part of Viacom....)

[welchce]

This wouldn't be the first time that a record-setting/first of its kind roller coaster failed at KI (see The Bat). I'm sure that CF will make the decision based on what's best for the park and they won't be afraid to scrap a record breaker in order to keep the public safe. CF has recently realized that records can be broken (Millennium Force, Top Thrill Dragster) but nothing can beat a well themed and exhilarating ride (Maverick). It will be very interesting seeing how everything unfolds.

[Outdoor Man]

SOB was a terrible design. It's nothing but height and circles.

In the day and age of Roller Coaster Tycoon they should have had a contest with 5th graders and came up with a kick-butt design. Heck, with the most recent versions you can tell what will cause the patrons to black-out and vomet....

I tend to agree with WooferAtl that removing the loop was just the beginning of the removal process.. but I think CF has pitched too much into it at this stage to turn it to firewood for a bit yet.

[Browntggrr]

Honestly, call it like it is. SOB is a wash and should have never seen the light of day. Hands down the worse investment in any park, anywhere. Followed closely by the likes of Top Thrill Dragster and Kingda Ka of course. At least Dragster can somewhat run reliably now.....

- Todd,

That is a rather bold statement especially since TTD & KK are actually operating and were not dismantled compared to rides like The Bat & Drachen Fire.

Also, how can SoB be a wash? That means it would have had to actually brought the same amount of guests to the gate to justify to costs to build it as well as the numerous repairs/ re-engineering it has gon through since 2000. I can't see it even being close to a wash.

[stewwill]

Here is some information about Son of Beast from an interview from Dick Kinzel.

QUOTE

Q: Kings Island had the well-publicized problem last year when more than two dozen people were injured on the Son of Beast. Has that ride reopened?

A: No, it hasn't reopened.

That happened 10 days after the acquisition. It will reopen this summer, hopefully by Memorial Day. The loop has been taken out of it. It was the only wooden coaster that had a loop.

It'll probably be a slower ride and a series of brakes have been put on it. New trains have been put on it. When it opens, we're going to be sure it will be safe.

source: http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stori...&thispage=1

It's obivious to me at least that unfortunately, SOB had design flaws. To much ride and to little engineering. I wonder if it could be re-engineered to operate at the speed it was supposed to? Werner Stengel (I hope I spelled thatv right) did the design and I know there was some kind of law suit regarding it's design or construction. The Beast was designed in house. I don't know if the same people worked for KI at the time SOB was proposed. It's a shame someone like Curits Summers couldn't have designed SOB. He designed some great woodies including one at CP. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems CF is trying to make the best of a bad situation. Sounds like it Son of Beast wont be a son, maybe a distant uncle you only see at Xmas?

Ha. Curtis Summers. While some great designs back in the day, I'd hardly label Mean Streak at CP a successful one. Every huge wood coaster that he and Charlie Dinn worked together on quickly turned to crap.....Texas Giant, Hercules, Mean Streak and so on.

I don't think the design on SOB is to blame at all. Does anyone NOT remember the fact that Paramount Parks ended up taking on the feat of being the general contractors for SOB? I put most, if not ALL the blame on PP. For starters taking on such a massive project that was far beyond what they were capable of handling was stupid. Isn't it ironic that in the lawsuit the ONE party that wasn't a part of it was Premier Rides? The trains weren't to blame for any of the problems the ride had then, however in 2007 they suddenly ARE the problem?

Honestly, call it like it is. SOB is a wash and should have never seen the light of day. Hands down the worse investment in any park, anywhere. Followed closely by the likes of Top Thrill Dragster and Kingda Ka of course. At least Dragster can somewhat run reliably now.....

- Todd,

Todd, you need to calm down and drink some warm milk. Curtis Summers is a WELL respected coaster designer. AND, if you check the records, you will see he had a BIG hand in desiging The Beast. That's I guess another coaster that turned to crap. So, as you say Todd, I will call like it is, you are perfectly welcome to express your opininons BUT, you don't have opinions, you are just not well informed. It wasn't constructed properly, but it wasn't designed properly either. Paramount blew it, that's what I said in the first place. Of the Curtis Summer rollercoasters you named, how many of them did you ride?

[BoddaH1994]

Here is some information about Son of Beast from an interview from Dick Kinzel.

QUOTE

Q: Kings Island had the well-publicized problem last year when more than two dozen people were injured on the Son of Beast. Has that ride reopened?

A: No, it hasn't reopened.

That happened 10 days after the acquisition. It will reopen this summer, hopefully by Memorial Day. The loop has been taken out of it. It was the only wooden coaster that had a loop.

It'll probably be a slower ride and a series of brakes have been put on it. New trains have been put on it. When it opens, we're going to be sure it will be safe.

source: http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stori...&thispage=1

It's obivious to me at least that unfortunately, SOB had design flaws. To much ride and to little engineering. I wonder if it could be re-engineered to operate at the speed it was supposed to? Werner Stengel (I hope I spelled thatv right) did the design and I know there was some kind of law suit regarding it's design or construction. The Beast was designed in house. I don't know if the same people worked for KI at the time SOB was proposed. It's a shame someone like Curits Summers couldn't have designed SOB. He designed some great woodies including one at CP. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems CF is trying to make the best of a bad situation. Sounds like it Son of Beast wont be a son, maybe a distant uncle you only see at Xmas?

Ha. Curtis Summers. While some great designs back in the day, I'd hardly label Mean Streak at CP a successful one. Every huge wood coaster that he and Charlie Dinn worked together on quickly turned to crap.....Texas Giant, Hercules, Mean Streak and so on.

I don't think the design on SOB is to blame at all. Does anyone NOT remember the fact that Paramount Parks ended up taking on the feat of being the general contractors for SOB? I put most, if not ALL the blame on PP. For starters taking on such a massive project that was far beyond what they were capable of handling was stupid. Isn't it ironic that in the lawsuit the ONE party that wasn't a part of it was Premier Rides? The trains weren't to blame for any of the problems the ride had then, however in 2007 they suddenly ARE the problem?

Honestly, call it like it is. SOB is a wash and should have never seen the light of day. Hands down the worse investment in any park, anywhere. Followed closely by the likes of Top Thrill Dragster and Kingda Ka of course. At least Dragster can somewhat run reliably now.....

- Todd,

Todd, you need to calm down and drink some warm milk. Curtis Summers is a WELL respected coaster designer. AND, if you check the records, you will see he had a BIG hand in desiging The Beast. That's I guess another coaster that turned to crap. So, as you say Todd, I will call like it is, you are perfectly welcome to express your opininons BUT, you don't have opinions, you are just not well informed. It wasn't constructed properly, but it wasn't designed properly either. Paramount blew it, that's what I said in the first place. Of the Curtis Summer rollercoasters you named, how many of them did you ride?

Knowing Todd, probably all of them...

[Hank]

BACK ON TOPIC!!!!

Any news on the new trains yet?

[stewwill]

Here is some information about Son of Beast from an interview from Dick Kinzel.

QUOTE

Q: Kings Island had the well-publicized problem last year when more than two dozen people were injured on the Son of Beast. Has that ride reopened?

A: No, it hasn't reopened.

That happened 10 days after the acquisition. It will reopen this summer, hopefully by Memorial Day. The loop has been taken out of it. It was the only wooden coaster that had a loop.

It'll probably be a slower ride and a series of brakes have been put on it. New trains have been put on it. When it opens, we're going to be sure it will be safe.

source: http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stori...&thispage=1

It's obivious to me at least that unfortunately, SOB had design flaws. To much ride and to little engineering. I wonder if it could be re-engineered to operate at the speed it was supposed to? Werner Stengel (I hope I spelled thatv right) did the design and I know there was some kind of law suit regarding it's design or construction. The Beast was designed in house. I don't know if the same people worked for KI at the time SOB was proposed. It's a shame someone like Curits Summers couldn't have designed SOB. He designed some great woodies including one at CP. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems CF is trying to make the best of a bad situation. Sounds like it Son of Beast wont be a son, maybe a distant uncle you only see at Xmas?

Ha. Curtis Summers. While some great designs back in the day, I'd hardly label Mean Streak at CP a successful one. Every huge wood coaster that he and Charlie Dinn worked together on quickly turned to crap.....Texas Giant, Hercules, Mean Streak and so on.

I don't think the design on SOB is to blame at all. Does anyone NOT remember the fact that Paramount Parks ended up taking on the feat of being the general contractors for SOB? I put most, if not ALL the blame on PP. For starters taking on such a massive project that was far beyond what they were capable of handling was stupid. Isn't it ironic that in the lawsuit the ONE party that wasn't a part of it was Premier Rides? The trains weren't to blame for any of the problems the ride had then, however in 2007 they suddenly ARE the problem?

Honestly, call it like it is. SOB is a wash and should have never seen the light of day. Hands down the worse investment in any park, anywhere. Followed closely by the likes of Top Thrill Dragster and Kingda Ka of course. At least Dragster can somewhat run reliably now.....

- Todd,

Todd, you need to calm down and drink some warm milk. Curtis Summers is a WELL respected coaster designer. AND, if you check the records, you will see he had a BIG hand in desiging The Beast. That's I guess another coaster that turned to crap. So, as you say Todd, I will call like it is, you are perfectly welcome to express your opininons BUT, you don't have opinions, you are just not well informed. It wasn't constructed properly, but it wasn't designed properly either. Paramount blew it, that's what I said in the first place. Of the Curtis Summer rollercoasters you named, how many of them did you ride?

Knowing Todd, probably all of them...

And if that's the case, he needs to get his facts straight about The Beast and who had a BIG hand in it's design. And at the least, he should have respect for the dead.

[corn4ahead]

I dont want them to slow down the ride.

[Hendrick]

I dont want them to slow down the ride.

I agree with you there, but when you think about it. Tear the ride down, or slow it down. The choice is clear.

[RingMaster]

This would almost be near impossible to attempt (at least I'm afraid it would be), but what if, using the track available if possible, to completely re-design the ride so that it resembles more of a merge between The Beast and The Voyage & Legend at Holiday World. You know, an out-and-back and twister combo with romps in the forest and dives in and out of its structure.

I want to try and design this myself on paper and maybe recreate it in NoLimits once I buy the software. Doing it in RCT3 would be torture due to its severe coaster design limitations.

Oh, and one more thing: would it be alright if the lift hill was cut short? I know that would kill its record of being the tallest on the planet, but I think it's thought and ingenuity behind the layout (blind turns, head-choppers, helixes, etc) that make a coaster great, not just the fact that, oh, it's the world's tallest coaster so that automatically makes any other coaster that doesn't come close to its height or speed inferior and not worth riding at all. Just look at Thunderhead, The Raven, The Legend, The Voyage, the upcoming Renegade at Valleyfair (I think), Zeus, Colossus, and Hades at that Karts & Koasters park.

[The Interpreter]

Zeus, Cyclops and Hades are at Mt. Olympus Water & Theme Park.

Colossos is in Germany, and El Toro shares a great deal with it (at Six Flags Great Adventure in New Jersey). El Toro is currently the U.S.'s tallest and fastest operating wood coaster.

As for Hades, I much prefer Avalanche over at Timber Falls Adventure Park in that same Wisconsin Dells.

Your point is a good one. As for thrills on a wood coaster, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the incredible Georgia Cyclone at Six Flags Over Georgia and Tremors at Silverwood in Idaho.

[welchce]

This would almost be near impossible to attempt (at least I'm afraid it would be), but what if, using the track available if possible, to completely re-design the ride so that it resembles more of a merge between The Beast and The Voyage & Legend at Holiday World. You know, an out-and-back and twister combo with romps in the forest and dives in and out of its structure.

I want to try and design this myself on paper and maybe recreate it in NoLimits once I buy the software. Doing it in RCT3 would be torture due to its severe coaster design limitations.

Oh, and one more thing: would it be alright if the lift hill was cut short? I know that would kill its record of being the tallest on the planet, but I think it's thought and ingenuity behind the layout (blind turns, head-choppers, helixes, etc) that make a coaster great, not just the fact that, oh, it's the world's tallest coaster so that automatically makes any other coaster that doesn't come close to its height or speed inferior and not worth riding at all. Just look at Thunderhead, The Raven, The Legend, The Voyage, the upcoming Renegade at Valleyfair (I think), Zeus, Colossus, and Hades at that Karts & Koasters park.

I totally agree with you. Wooden roller coasters are better when they are cutting in and out of the terrain, twisting and turning.

[Delirium_Guy]

Honestly, call it like it is. SOB is a wash and should have never seen the light of day. Hands down the worse investment in any park, anywhere. Followed closely by the likes of Top Thrill Dragster and Kingda Ka of course. At least Dragster can somewhat run reliably now.....

- Todd,

That is a rather bold statement especially since TTD & KK are actually operating and were not dismantled compared to rides like The Bat & Drachen Fire.

Also, how can SoB be a wash? That means it would have had to actually brought the same amount of guests to the gate to justify to costs to build it as well as the numerous repairs/ re-engineering it has gon through since 2000. I can't see it even being close to a wash.

TTD & KK are actually operating yes, but even Dick Kinzel himself in one of these more recent interviews admits that Dragster was one of the dumbest decisions he ever made. While SOB may have brought people through the gates in 2000, I highly doubt its been worth the investment. Its not a big secret that large of amounts of money are sunk into it season after season, money that could be spent on other things in the Park. Seriously, I'm not sure how the ride can be labeled as a success. To each their own.

- Todd

[The Interpreter]

And current Six Flags Theme Park management would not have bought Kingda Ka (and probably not El Toro, either).

In recent years, record breaking coasters have NOT brought in the degree of business that they once could be depended on to virtually automatically generate.

[Rustbucket]

As for thrills on a wood coaster, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the incredible Georgia Cyclone at Six Flags Over Georgia and Tremors at Silverwood in Idaho.

It is very interesting that many people have so many different opinions about wooden coasters. I always liked Son of Beast and Racer. However, I thought that Georgia Cyclone was the worst wooden coaster I have ever been on out of 32 wooden coasters.

[The Interpreter]

Did you ride the back seat? That's where it's at on that ride. And unless you adore strong, violent forces and ejector air, the Georgia Cyclone is not for you! If you are more into floating air and graceful changes of direction, perhaps the Phoenix at Knoebels Grove or The Comet at The Great Escape (formerly at Crystal Beach in Canada) would be more to your liking!

[Delirium_Guy]

Todd, you need to calm down and drink some warm milk. Curtis Summers is a WELL respected coaster designer. AND, if you check the records, you will see he had a BIG hand in desiging The Beast. That's I guess another coaster that turned to crap. So, as you say Todd, I will call like it is, you are perfectly welcome to express your opininons BUT, you don't have opinions, you are just not well informed. It wasn't constructed properly, but it wasn't designed properly either. Paramount blew it, that's what I said in the first place. Of the Curtis Summer rollercoasters you named, how many of them did you ride?

No milk, thanks. I never said Curt Summers wasn't well respected or that he never designed any good rides. The issue that I was pointing out was regarding all of the mega wood coasters that he and Dinn cranked out in the early 90's......including that wonderful ride at CP Mean Streak. To answer your question, I've ridden every one of those coasters I mentioned....along with Wolverine Wildcat, Predator, Georgia Cyclone, Timber Wolf....need I go on?

I've ridden plenty of Curt's designs and there are some super ones out there. The mega woodies just didn't turn out that way. The only one that I will stand up for is Texas Giant. That used to be one hell of a ride! Again, if I'm going to put the words awesome and Curtis Summers together I can think of many good rides to group together with that....Mean Streak just isn't one of them.

I don't particularly consider Beast to be a huge ride, either. Aside from the two lift hills, the ride is relatively low to the ground. We all know this. Compared to a ride such as the Giant which is a lot of large drops and high banked curves, its a different breed. No, Beast isn't crap.

- Todd

[The Interpreter]

I would agree that The Texas Giant is one hell of a ride. I just doubt we would agree what that means.

It's enjoyable in the front seat to this day. All things considered, though; give me a Cyclops, Avalanche, or even Cornball Express over that thing.

The only megawoodie I truly adore is El Toro, and I am not even sure it rides like any other wood coaster I have ever ridden. I prefer El Toro to Superman Ride of Steel at New England, but I do not prefer it to woodies like Tremors, The Georgia Cyclone, Raven or even Rolling Thunder.

Make sense? Nope. Does it have to? Nope. It's a subjective opinion.

I adore a good night ride on Beast, too. Somewhat like El Toro, I see it as a one of a kind experience. When I first rode Beast, I still remember my reaction. WOW. Unlike any other wood coaster. True then. True now.

[Ki Man]

I hear a new set of ending brakes, because if they E-stop it now, the train will valley when the brakes release. The last two cars will be hanging back over the drop witht he rest of the train stuck in the brakes. Poor design thought there.

[Delirium_Guy]

I would agree that The Texas Giant is one hell of a ride. I just doubt we would agree what that means.

It's enjoyable in the front seat to this day. All things considered, though; give me a Cyclops, Avalanche, or even Cornball Express over that thing.

The only megawoodie I truly adore is El Toro, and I am not even sure it rides like any other wood coaster I have ever ridden. I prefer El Toro to Superman Ride of Steel at New England, but I do not prefer it to woodies like Tremors, The Georgia Cyclone, Raven or even Rolling Thunder.

Make sense? Nope. Does it have to? Nope. It's a subjective opinion.

I adore a good night ride on Beast, too. Somewhat like El Toro, I see it as a one of a kind experience. When I first rode Beast, I still remember my reaction. WOW. Unlike any other wood coaster. True then. True now.

I havent ridden the Giant since about 1999. It sure wasn't running that well then either. My first rides were in 1996, the year after they reprofiled the double up. It was fantastic then. I agree though, El Toro is quite amazing. Not sure I prefer it to Ride of Steel at SFNE, but its VERY close. Georgia Cyclone still blows me away everytime I ride it, it was even running brakeless on my visit in March.

While The Beast isn't anywhere close to being my favorite coaster, there is something about it that still holds a special place in my heart. Love your last statement, Interpreter. Knowing you, I think I know exactly what you were saying but not saying :-)

- Todd

[DropZone99]

so will SOB still have a top speed of 78mph.???

[PKIVortex]

I could see them slowing it down going into the the rose bowl, I don't know though. It still says on the website it will be the tallest and fastest wooden coaster.

[DropZone99]

I could see them slowing it down going into the the rose bowl, I don't know though. It still says on the website it will be the tallest and fastest wooden coaster.

well, atleast itll still hold those world records.

=]

[PKIVortex]

But will it still be rough as heck. I sure hope not.