TH13TEEN Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Look I liked King Cobra as much as the next guy, probably more, in fact, King Cobra is my 3rd favorite steel coaster...but the ride did not carry a historic value. Nobody brags about having the first standup coaster in america. Just like nobody brags that Vortex was the first coaster with 6 inversions or was the tallest coaster in the world when it was built. King Cobra's ridership was going down, TOGO had been out of business for years, Parts were a pain in the ass, and the ride took forever to load. The park wanted to add something that would look new and thrilling in the Action Zone. That giant yellow blue and red pendulum fits into the Action Zone perfectly. You cannot deny that when delerium is operating people love to stand by and watch and listen to the riders screaming. Now where does everyone expect this "expansion into the cornfields to take place"?? The park cant just add a section of the park. They cant just build paths out into the middle of nowhere. Otherwise we would end up like six flags america. A Mile walk that leads you to batwing in an empty field. Also just food for thought, many of the parks unused acres are protected by the national park service or dept of agriculture or something where they cannot remove trees. Crazy yes but true. It would be like in roller coaster tycoon where you have to build a park, but cannot remove any trees. And yes of course Vortex is sinking. Post 600 Vortex is not SINKING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormaster Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Well I guess i really can't argue with the fact TOGO went under and getting parts to maintain would be a pain. I DO think they should consider building a new Stand Up, as well as finally getting a real inverted coaster...Face off is a good ride, don't get me wrong, but is NOT by any means the answer I as waiting for when Batman the Ride, the Raptor, T2, etc. started appearing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Stand up coasters were a gimmick. One that seldom worked well (the Togo's, ironically, did...some of the worst ones are B and M's, especially their first, Iron Wolf at Six Flags Great America in Chicago). A stand up hasn't been built in years now. There is a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLorean Rider Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Not to mention stand up coasters tend to be very intense. Often more intense than a lot of people can handle. Nobody is going to buy a stand up coaster from B&M when they could purchase a floorless coaster from B&M. The last stand up coaster was built in 1999 and the first floorless coaster was built in 2000, since then zero stand up coasters have been built. Personally I believe that the standup coaster is the worst coaster that B&M builds. I would rather ride Kumba (sit down) than Chang any day. I also believe that floorless coasters are the best coasters (with inversions) that they build. Personally I would be ****ed if Kings Island built a standup coaster when they could have had something else. Also whoever said that Kings Island needed an inverted coaster like T2, you're crazy, the last thing anyone needs is another Hang and Bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padfoot714 Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 I want Raptor or something similar at KI. Raptor is such a great ride. It's one of the things I look forward to the most when I go to CP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Stand up coasters were a gimmick. One that seldom worked well (the Togo's, ironically, did...some of the worst ones are B and M's, especially their first, Iron Wolf at Six Flags Great America in Chicago). A stand up hasn't been built in years now. There is a reason. So you're saying that the remaining stand ups are not popular? Hmmm.... Don't see it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Don't base all on The Georgia Scorcher, which is, for my money, the best stand-up that B and M ever made. Still, I'd rather have seen a floorless where it is, wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Don't base all on The Georgia Scorcher, which is, for my money, the best stand-up that B and M ever made. Still, I'd rather have seen a floorless where it is, wouldn't you? You have to admit, everyone down here loves the Scorcher. I rarely ever see it with no line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 I think King Cobra's removal from KI had more to do with just finding parts for the ride. They are still Shockwave running at KD, and Skyrider at CW. Maintenance though did have a lot to do with it. Cobra would brake down almost daily with riders on-board. The track was welded almost daily. The fact that Cobra was the prototype stand-up coaster by TOGO is another reason it's gone. The steel it was built out of was Japanese and not America Steel, I have heard that Japanese Steel isn't as strong as America Steel. So there you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 That was true of Japanese steel back then, but not so true of it today... And yes, I have heard the same things you cite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH13TEEN Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Is their a difference in the material Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Well, there is no actual material property difference in steel. There is standard 36 KSI steel and then there is high strength 50 KSI steel. That is the strength of the material and is a given value. However, there, just like with wood, are different grades of steel. The worse the grade, the worse the quality of the material. As the quality of the material deteriorates, so to will its durability and strength. And that ends a brief recall from my four structures classes at UC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormaster Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Ok whats wrong with Inverts? DeLorain Rider, have you acctually rode an Invert? They are the best coaster type out there next to the classic steel loopers like The Vortex. I haven't rode Firehawk yet, but I can say that an invert really feels like flying, your constantly tucking your feet in, and its pretty cool to not be able to see the track in front of you! Secondly stand ups: whats so wrong with them? And whats so different about them from a Steel looper other than the cars? Couldn't The Vortex be converted to a standup technically if KI had some cars build that would fit it? My only problem with standups is that stool that goes in between your crotch. Its definilty necessary but they could definitly make them more comfortable and less painful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Vortex could not be converted to a steel looper without major revisions to the track. Besides, why would anyone want to spend all that money to get what is, for most, a far less satisfactory ride experience. And if you think people complain now about its transitions (and they do).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLorean Rider Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Ok whats wrong with Inverts? DeLorain Rider, have you acctually rode an Invert? They are the best coaster type out there next to the classic steel loopers like The Vortex. I haven't rode Firehawk yet, but I can say that an invert really feels like flying, your constantly tucking your feet in, and its pretty cool to not be able to see the track in front of you! Secondly stand ups: whats so wrong with them? And whats so different about them from a Steel looper other than the cars? Couldn't The Vortex be converted to a standup technically if KI had some cars build that would fit it? My only problem with standups is that stool that goes in between your crotch. Its definilty necessary but they could definitly make them more comfortable and less painful! Yes, I've probably ridden more than you. Personally I think that the "classic steel looper" that you love so much is a piece of junk. The only good steel looper that arrow made is Tennessee Tornado. And thats because Ron %$#% Toomer had nothing to do with it. I'm guessing that you havent ridden a floorless coaster yet. Yea sure Vortex could be converted to a standup...If you wanted to KILL people. That rides transitions are so bad; they're worse than a 7 year olds RCT creation. Look at it this way, if you put standup trains on Vortex, that would make your head about 8 feet from the track rather than 4 feet. That means every jerk in the track you would feel WAY harder because you would have to go so much further back and fourth with each jerk. I've been on Skyrider, Shockwave, Iron Wolf, Vortex PGA, Vortex Carowinds, King Cobra, Mantis, Chang, and the only ones that I can truly say that I got off and immediately wanted to ride again were King Cobra and Skyrider. Also like I said, check the facts, NOT ONE standup coaster has been built since the creation of the floorless coaster. Also I dont have anything against inverted coasters. BUT I also think that Floorless coasters are significantly better. I've been on Medusa, Medusa, and Dominator and I would prefer either of them to any inverted coaster I have ridden. When they ran a discovery show exclusive on the making of Medusa the first floorless coaster they spoke specifically about how the problem with the inverted coasters ability to make one feel as though they are flying is that you cannot see the sky. While you're flying, how can you not be able to see the sky? So they created a ride where you could have your feet dangle and still see the wide open wild blue yonder. Also in refrence to T2; I've ridden T2, KONG, Minderaser, Top Gun PCW, and Thunderhawk. NOT ONE of those would I consider riding again the next time I go to any of those parks. You know that once a women who rode Mind Eraser (cant remember if it was SFA or SFNE) tried to sue the park for brain damage and the park in court made note that the rides name was Mind Eraser and that tha should have been a warning. Anyway thats off topic. I've also ridden about a dozen B&M Inverted coasters and though much more enjoyable than anything Vekoma put together, I would still rather ride a B&M Floorless any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormaster Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I don't want them to convert The Vortex to Stand up. Thats not what I'm saying. I am just curious as to if it could be done! I mean what I'm saying is whats so different about the track of a Stand-up to a steel-looper? They look identical to me. Seems to me The Vortex could be converted to anything but a invert...in theory. and like i said this is all hypothetically speaking... I'm not suggesting the park should fix what hasn't been broken since 1987! And you can see the sky great on an Invert, when you go through a loop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 This rumor has to be one of my all-time favorites. One might ask why. Well, I can remember hearing this rumor for the 1st time over 10 years ago. That's funny enough in itself, but moreso seeing as how some of the variations of the rumor stated "It'll need to be removed in 2 years" Wow...should have been removed at least 5 times over by now and wouldn't you know it, the other week when I was there, I heard this very rumor, time frame and all, again. I love you people, I REALLY do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLorean Rider Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I don't want them to convert The Vortex to Stand up. Thats not what I'm saying. I am just curious as to if it could be done! I mean what I'm saying is whats so different about the track of a Stand-up to a steel-looper? They look identical to me. Seems to me The Vortex could be converted to anything but a invert...in theory. and like i said this is all hypothetically speaking... I'm not suggesting the park should fix what hasn't been broken since 1987! And you can see the sky great on an Invert, when you go through a loop! Sure and in theory Face off could be converted to a suspended coaster and racer could be converted to a steel coaster. To answer your question, no they're not. I dont believe any standup coasters have ever made in which the side wheels ran on the inside of the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iChase Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 You guys are going to enjoy this. Yesterday I was up on Eiffel and talked to a ride op for awhile. First I was talking about Slingshot being the fastest ride in the park at close to 100 MPH. She looked at me like I was stupid and said that's probably 55 MPH, I just smiled. Then she was talking about new coasters and said they would remove Vortex because it's sinking. Well with that comment I just started laughing. I asked her if she really believed that rumor. She said, "Well, I should know, I work here." After she said that I began to think, hmm, I'm 275 ft in the air and this is who I'm stuck with if something were to go wrong. Oh dear God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I wouldn't think that KI would take it down unless it becomes a pain to maintain or parts are unavalible for it, a la KC. Also, i don't think a park would want to invest money in buying a coaster that is 20 years old. With the money it would take to dismantle, transport and then reinstall you could probably buy a new coaster. And I believe that Arrow built The Vortex based on the terrain that it sits on so another site maybe out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welchce Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I wouldn't think that KI would take it down unless it becomes a pain to maintain or parts are unavalible for it, a la KC. Also, i don't think a park would want to invest money in buying a coaster that is 20 years old. With the money it would take to dismantle, transport and then reinstall you could probably buy a new coaster. And I believe that Arrow built The Vortex based on the terrain that it sits on so another site maybe out of the question. I don't think it goes exactly with the terrain but the Batwing element by the midway is one of my favorite spots at KI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braves0511 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I always have to fight the urge to correct people on such things when they're talking in line...like last month in The Beast line i heard a brand new one, for once, someone was saying they were gonna make The Beast go backwards or take it out if that didn't help it become "popular again" as they so eloquently put it...My friend who was with me knew that I knew better, and kept telling me to ignore them it was pretty funny... But anyway, back On topic...wasn't The Vortex built more to fit The Bat's old footprint more or less? I know it uses the same station and some of the same footers...was that mostly coincidence or a deliberate effort at cutting building costs? *oooooh gettin' close, 99th post!!!* (it's only taken two years...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLorean Rider Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 None of the footers were re-used, that would probably be a structual no no as well as would take some pretty precise designing of Vortex just to save a tiny bit of concrete. The only things from The Bat that were re-used were the station and the access stairs to the mid-break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyboy0830 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Vortex could use some new trains though. The OTR restraints aren't good for tall people;however, restraints like FOF's would be nice to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Vortex could use some new trains though. The OTR restraints aren't good for tall people;however, restraints like FOF's would be nice to have. If they were to remove the OTSR then I believe that the ridership would go down. I know that I would no longer ride Vortex if they took them off. That would make me feel less safe it I was to get stuck upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iChase Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 ...and the access stairs to the mid-break. I never knew that! You do learn something every day. How did this rumor start? It had to come from somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deb Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 The restraints on FoF are fine for the handfull of "quickie" flips there are on it- but with all the upsidedownness you get on Vortex, I dunno that anything other than an OTSR would work. I LOVE the restraints on FoF and IJST, and I wish they were on all the other coaster that don't have OTSRs, as I find them incredibly comfortable. deb don't you just love my "official" coaster terminology?!?!? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrick Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I don't want them to convert The Vortex to Stand up. Thats not what I'm saying. I am just curious as to if it could be done! I mean what I'm saying is whats so different about the track of a Stand-up to a steel-looper? They look identical to me. Seems to me The Vortex could be converted to anything but a invert...in theory. and like i said this is all hypothetically speaking... I'm not suggesting the park should fix what hasn't been broken since 1987! And you can see the sky great on an Invert, when you go through a loop! Sure and in theory Face off could be converted to a suspended coaster and racer could be converted to a steel coaster. To answer your question, no they're not. I dont believe any standup coasters have ever made in which the side wheels ran on the inside of the track. http://www.rcdb.com/id125.htm Started out as a mine ride. It was then converted to a stand up. Now it is back to a mine ride again. But it was converted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 ...and it didn't work very well at all. Which is why it was converted back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrick Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I know. Just the point was that a coaster could be converted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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