Here you can see The Beast station on top of the hill on the other side of Vortex's first drop. The track for Vortex is well higher than Beast's station, but the topography under Vortex is way way lower. This steep hill drops off, and the height of the entire topography stays about the same as the bottom of this hill. It goes back up over by Vortex's station. The Beast station and Vortex station are roughly the same height.

But yeah the land under Vortex is very much lower than Beast's station land.

So wait, does this mean that Vortex IS sinking?

And this one was taken on The Beast station side of the drop - on the land that is alleged to be the same height as the land under Vortex. As you can see the track goes below the height at which I am standing to take this picture. And except for the bottom of the boomerang, and the drop out of the station - the ride is usually 10 feet or more off the ground.

So I don't know how else to say it but probably 80% or more of Vortex's footers are below the level of the footers for Beast's station and transfer area.

So wait, does this mean that Vortex IS sinking?

No - just that Vortex was built in a low lying area of land. Possibly the crater from the FoF UFO.

was the land purposly lowered for The Bat? And then they just kept it the same when they built Vortex?

Here you can see The Beast station on top of the hill on the other side of Vortex's first drop. The track for Vortex is well higher than Beast's station, but the topography under Vortex is way way lower.

The land for the majority of Vortex is much higher than the land for Beast. That entire area slopes down toward the Little Miami River.

Where is there a river on highland, where the lower land is dry?

And please don't say New Orleans.

And if you are going to show pictures, show the whole ride and land. Not just a small part of the ride to try and save your arguement.

Most of the land for Beast is lower. All I am saying is that the land under Vortex on average is much lower than the land directly under The Beast station. I have walked that land countless times. I know where the high points and low points of the land under Vortex is. And except for the land close to the station, under the top of the lift, and under the first turn around, the rest of it all will have you looking UP toward The Beast station.

If you want to compare ride envelopes, yes Beast's land does get way lower. The bottom of the drop just before the brake shed is in that valley that Vortex sits at the beginning of. And the lowest point of the ride - the turn around before the 2nd lift - is even lower than that.

But I am 100% certain, from having WALKED under Vortex dozens of times, and around Beast a few times that the land under Vortex is on average 10-20 feet lower than the land directly under The Beast station.

Here, I made this to show what I am talking about. You can argue that I am wrong, but anyone who has cleaned under Vortex will back me up.

It has been said before and will be said again. Vortex is not sinking. I think we should add that fact to the 'facts' section on this site on Vortex's page.

Oh, and klock... I am flattered, gave me a smile!

Lets just agree to disagree and call it a day.

It is a little on the jerkey side I wouldn't call it rough.

Name an Arrow coaster that isn't "jerky". I agree, it's not rough. Love Arrow rides. Where would we be with steel coasters today without the innovative thinking of Arrow Dynamics. They may be gone, but will NEVER be forgotten.

Oooh, too easy:

Arrow coasters that are not "jerky:"

Tennessee Tornado

Loch Ness Monster

Canyon Blaster

I'm done...

Why isn't Drachen Fire on the list?

I love Arrows... I seriously do.

For the exact same reason Steel Phantom isn't on that list. And more.

was the land purposly lowered for The Bat? And then they just kept it the same when they built Vortex?

No, Bat and Vortex were both built into the terrain of the area.

There was very little excavation done.

For some reson people keep saying The Vortex is "bumpy". I have trouble finding an Arrow coaster that isn't a little jerky! (Double Loop is insanly rough though). The Vortex is a little jerky because it uses sudden banking transitions (like on RCT3) insted of gradual transitions (brake shed on Beast). KI would never remove: Beast, Vortex, Drop Zone, Racer. This conversation was getting old 15 years ago.

Double Loop wasn't rough at all..... I like that coaster

and isn't Gemini smooth?

Yes, Gemini is smooth, but I was referring only to Arrow looping coasters in my list of smooth ones! Far be it from me to diss Gemini. As much as I love Double Loop, I would not call its transitions smooth.

I just can't say that I really enjoy the Ron "What's A Transition" Toomer-designed Arrow loopers. Sure, they're fun and unique, but a little too rough for my liking. But I still try to ride Vortex once or twice a visit.

Also, does anyone else think the train goes through the double-loop part a little too fast for comfort, or is it just me?

No, It's not You!

NO! NOT Vortex! IF ANYTHING, NOT Vortex! CURSE YOU OHIO SWAMP!

I love The Vortex and always have, it's a good staple for our park!

Also, does anyone else think the train goes through the double-loop part a little too fast for comfort, or is it just me?

Don't say that they are going to add breaks.

ugh... don't They brake rides enough already? Besides, are you saying all inversions should be as slow as the later Corkscrews?

Heres a grand idea .... how about we just brake going along the loops and corkscrew ... that way your just haning there for a long time while ur going a few mph around it .... LOL

For some reson people keep saying The Vortex is "bumpy". I have trouble finding an Arrow coaster that isn't a little jerky! (Double Loop is insanly rough though). The Vortex is a little jerky because it uses sudden banking transitions (like on RCT3) insted of gradual transitions (brake shed on Beast). KI would never remove: Beast, Vortex, Drop Zone, Racer. This conversation was getting old 15 years ago.

I wouldn't say that none of those coasters or rides will never be removed. Never is a long, long time. It would depend on maintenance upkeep and ridership more than anything.

I can see The Racer and Beast never getting removed since they are always replacing wood on those coasters I am sure they have been build a few times over again. The only way I can see those 2 getting trash is a tornado or natural distar.

I can see The Vortex being removed in 15-20 years.

I can see The Beast getting removed in 65-70 years.

I can see The Racer getting removed in never.

I doubt they would take out The Beast, I mean it STILL holds the record for longest wood coaster. And it is a park Icon! Or at least I hope it's never removed.

It wont be unless it will never be open and continues to have problems daily or someone gets killed on it or natural cause or something insane happens. Otherwise, dont look to see it going ANYWHERE anytime in the future