Cory Butcher Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I just hope that it opens this year with no problems and isn't a bad ride, all this shoulda coulda woulda stuff is giving me more of a headache then sonny ever did! And, remember, it was said at one point in time that the G-trains may not be the end-all, but could make the ride experience formidable while a new train maker could be sought. So, I think KI has 4 choices, tear it down, new set of trains (if these don't work all that great), pre-fab track, or some Gemini steel track. I hope these Gerstlauers we have will take care of the issue, but it seems to be a little too rough for track just to be the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art_star Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I really don't think that SOB could be converted to the Gemini, AE type steel. Banks and curves extremely jerky feeling on that steel tubing,and sonny is filled with banks and curves. I would kill myself if SOB got that stupid steel tubing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 **** And, remember, it was said at one point in time that the G-trains may not be the end-all, but could make the ride experience formidable while a new train maker could be sought. **** Freudian slip? formidable: causing fear, dread, or apprehension Perhaps you meant bearable? Or perhaps you meant what you said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delirium_Guy Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Yea that seems logical. We've put 25million into this ride, lets spend another couple million tearing it down and re-clearing the land so that we have nothing to show for the 30 million dollar dent in our bank account. Or we could hire a company like Intamin to come in and put pre-fab track on so that it will run smooth as millennium force. Not to mention that Son of Beast, looks amazing. It is un-denyable that when you look at Son of Beast from the Eiffel Tower that it looks incredible. If nothing else from an engineering standpoint it is a magnificant structure. Now the ride experience itself may not be great but beside that, Son of Beast has become an Icon of the park and a huge part of the parks skyline. The park has considered full re-tracking before, if it could be executed properly, Son of Beast could still work. Unfortunately obviously this go around, once again, budgets were cut and instead of modifying the track, they modified the trains. I can assure they have sank far more than $25 million into the ride since 2000. The initial investment alone was $17 million. Its actually quite sad to think of the *quality* rides we could have received if not for this POS. I agree that it *is* is beautiful ride to look at......so was Hercules looming over its signature lake. We all see how that turned out. Intamin's pre-fab is something to behold, El Toro rides more like a steelie. SOB would instantly become the smoothest ride in the park.....but it would still suffer from a lackluster layout. Its not about being an icon at the Park, hell I don't even look at it as a signature attraction. There will come a point when the decision will have to be made as CoastersRZ said.....I believe that decision will come sooner rather than later. I certainly dont wish bad things on the ride, but it just seems as though its been far more trouble than it is truly worth. - Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 That is the truth. How much more $$ are they going to waste on this ride? If it's not right this time though I also agree that it's days are numbered. Cedar Fair isn't going to want to pour money into SOB like Paramount did that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdsteele Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 What an interesting thread going here. I know SOB wasn't the smoothest ride in the world, but how many woodies actually are? And most are half the size of this beast. Considering its size and speed, to me it doesn't do too bad. Now I will bash the engineers who came up with the first trains cause those things were a joke and I believe most of the uncomfortableness of this ride was because of the trains themselves. How can the ride be pleasant when a person is uncomfortable before you even get going? People on here are bashing KI for wasting money on this ride, why? One of the reasons I always loved this park is because of their willingness to go out and try something new, remember the old launched Demon? The Bat, the first suspended? King Cobra, the first stand-up? Flight of Fear, I believe the first LIM launched? Come on, give them credit for giving us new experiences with these rides. The park likes to get away from the norm, to me that is a good thing. Sad thing is, will the park stay this way with Cedar Fair running the show and Cedar Point being their star attraction. Anyways, lets go back in history and look at The Bat, even though it ended up being a loss, (and for one, I wish they wouldve brought that one back redesigned instead of the stupid little Top Gun), think of all the money they had invested in it, spent 2 years trying to make it work, does that make them stupid? I don't think so, I think it shows their commitment to bringing new things to the table. They tried then and they are trying now. There is always going to be trial and error in this business, I read about it all the time with other parks and the new rides they try. Some ideas work better than others. I have seen people say "well look at what they could have built with the money they spent on this ride", yeah, and? People bring up the Voyage, good coaster and cheaper price, true, but to me, its not a remarkable build, its a hybrid, not even a true woodie. SOB is a true woodie and for one that is as large as it is, its quite an accomplishment. Ok enough ranting, in closing I think they will figure this beast out in the long run, especially with todays technology, and I think they could have done it without losing the loop, but thats a whole nother rant! Patience, think everyone needs some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 There is nothing hybrid about Voyage. If you mean it has a steel structure, so does the Coney Island Cyclone, the Comet at Lake George, New York, the Great White at Morey's Piers, etc. I can understand someone thinking that El Toro is hybrid coaster, but not Voyage. Note also that Son of Beast itself also had steel support and wood track in the loop.... And there is nothing stupid about Top Gun. Welcome aboard. But do realize each has his/her own opinion, and as long as it is based on facts and perceptions, it is as valid as the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdsteele Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 There is nothing hybrid about Voyage. If you mean it has a steel structure, so does the Coney Island Cyclone, the Comet at Lake George, New York, the Great White at Morey's Piers, etc. I can understand someone thinking that El Toro is hybrid coaster, but not Voyage. Note also that Son of Beast itself also had steel support and wood track in the loop.... And there is nothing stupid about Top Gun. Welcome aboard. But do realize each has his/her own opinion, and as long as it is based on facts and perceptions, it is as valid as the next. Hybrid=steel structure and wood track. It is what the Voyage is classified as. True the loop had a steel frame, but it is now gone so. Really would have been a marvel if they could have made the whole loop out of wood, but don't ever see that as a possibility. As far as Top Gun goes, I just wish they would have made it bigger, 28 seconds from the top of the lift to the finish is just too short for a coaster to me. I know everyone has their opinions and I respect that, I'm not out to bash anyone, I was just stating my own. Thank you for the welcome. I look forward to reading all the posts on here and hopefully joing in on some of them. I have been visiting this park since about the late 70's/early 80's so I've seen it go through many changes, some good, some bad, all part of it I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Top Gun may be short, but so was King Cobra. Besides the lift counts as part of the ride hahaha. As far as them wasting money on SOB, when do they draw the line? That ride had major work done on it last year, and then look what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 And Top Thrill and even Kingda Ka are both way shorter than Top Gun in ride time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Hell The Beast is over 5 minutes, but look how long it actually takes to just get to the first lift. Not to count it probably takes a minute to climb the lifts. The actual ride time on The Beast is probably only just a little over 2 minutes, if you don't count the lift or the trip to the lift apart of the ride. I however count the lift as part of the ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdsteele Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Top Gun may be short, but so was King Cobra. Besides the lift counts as part of the ride hahaha. As far as them wasting money on SOB, when do they draw the line? That ride had major work done on it last year, and then look what happened. Yeah King Cobra was short, but it was also the first and one of a kind so I guess i cut them some slack for that one. As far as when to draw the line...hhmm.. good question, I think you draw the line when all hope is lost, and i don't think that is the situation with Sonny. A rough ride and an accident isn't going to deter people from this ride. Rides have accidents all the time, some worse than others, and as sad as it is, an accident is publicity for a ride (don't hate me for saying that). I mean face it, we people who get on these rides are out for thrills, so looking at it from the standpoint of *a ride that has an accident because the structure failed due to the intenseness of the ride*, to the thrillseeker means it is one hell of a ride that we want to try out. Am i wrong in that line of thinking? People jump out of airplanes for the rush and thrill.....and people have accidents doing that and some die, but people still want that rush and continue doing it. Sonny will reopen and people will run to get on it, whether it is rough or has an accident, people are still going to stand in that line and ride it just to sat that they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 But SOB's ridership was already declining before the accident. Also King Cobra wasn't one of a kind. Ever heard of Skyrider at CW (Canada's Wonderland) it's as close as being the exact same ride as King Cobra as you can get. Also they are Shockwave at KD (Kings Dominion). They are also tons of Togo Standups in Japan that are very similar to King Cobra. Your right though, King Cobra was the first Togo Looping Stand-up coaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 One must remember this is a business. Either Son of Beast positively contributes to the bottom line or has the prospect of doing so, it is a hopeless money pit with no hope or somewhere in between. Enthusiasts and people like them are not the primary target of parks. Families with young children now are. Which goes even more towards the theory that Son of Beast is now on its last chance. This either works, or it will doubtless be gone soon. This is particularly true since Cedar Fair does not share the "we created it and we are going to make it work" mentality that Paramount Parks had. See Hercules, Dorney Park as an example of what may happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdsteele Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 One must remember this is a business. Either Son of Beast positively contributes to the bottom line or has the prospect of doing so, it is a hopeless money pit with no hope or somewhere in between. Enthusiasts and people like them are not the primary target of parks. Families with young children now are. Which goes even more towards the theory that Son of Beast is now on its last chance. This either works, or it will doubtless be gone soon. This is particularly true since Cedar Fair does not share the "we created it and we are going to make it work" mentality that Paramount Parks had. See Hercules, Dorney Park as an example of what may happen. Im not familiar with hercules so please, do tell. And the business outlook, I agree completely, if it doesn't perform to get the people on it then yeah, going to be alot of lumber stacked up somewhere!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Hercules 1989 to 9-1-2003 was a wooden coaster that was also a maintenance nightmare, and gave a very rough ride. Cedar Fair removed it, and now stands a B&M Floorless Coaster called Hydra The Revenge. I'd love to see a B&M Floorless where SOB is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdsteele Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 I'd love to see any kinda B&M at KI, but I hope if they ever do, they don't do some standard layout and instead do some kinda monster that utilizies the terrain and woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 As far as I know, most of B&M's coasters are custom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 B and M is known for custom layouts. Except the Batman The Ride rides (one of which is a mirror image of the rest) and the Supeman Flying Coasters, they do not build cookie cutter coasters. The ones they did do, they did at Six Flags' request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdsteele Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 I see...well other than Kumba, only ones I have actually ridden are Batman and Chang, I think..lol..I was just saying, I think one out in the woods like Beast would be awesome, like have it somewhere on the side of the park so it could venture out into the woods, ya know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delirium_Guy Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 I'd love to see any kinda B&M at KI, but I hope if they ever do, they don't do some standard layout and instead do some kinda monster that utilizies the terrain and woods. I agree with you on the fact that when KI builds a ride, I'd love to have a custom layout suited for KI. However, the points about SOB remain true. Its fine to go out on a limb and try for unique and different, but it hasn't worked on SOB. Yes, its a wood coaster and yes wood coasters are typically rougher than steelies. However....SOB is a violent rough that tosses riders around like rag dolls and continues to beat them upon end with its out of control jack hammering effect.....unless you ride in the 1/3 of the seats on the train that aren't over the wheels. The point being made is that millions have been dished out to try to get this thing to work properly......and nothing has been able to accomplish that. I, too, applaud KI. They have tried many different things to make a go of it, but it just doesn't seem to be in the cards for it to be successful. What makes Voyage a good build is the fact that EVERYONE in the train comes back to the station clapping and cheering after the amazing experience they just had. All people do on SOB is climb off in desperate need of Tylenol. Yes, accidents are publicity.....but not good publicity. SOB already had a troubled history before the accident took place. A structural failure is NOT good publicity for this ride......given that it had a partial collapse during its construction. Add in the fact that the ride closed down its first weekend and was closed for a month, suffered from frequent late openings due to on going track adjustments the first season, and so on and so on. It doesn't have a good history. Again, I'm curious to see how this round of adjustments turn out. I wish them the best. - Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigellinus Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Rip SOB down!!!!!! (B&M) FLOORLESS!!!!!......FLOORLESS!!!!!!.......FLOORLESS!!!!!!.....FLOORLESS!!!!!! I want Hydra!!!! I want Hydra!!!! I want Hydra!!!! I want Hydra!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 I've ridden Hydra. There are far better floorless B and M's. The two Medusa's immediately spring to mind. And Kraken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdsteele Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Well maybe Sonny will be better this time around with different trains, who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Did someone say Kraken. Hey I can dream right? I do hope that this round of work and the new trains some good. But will SOB get it's ridership back, that is the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jondrewfoo Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 out of all the people i know that i talk to enough to talk about Kings Island with them every once in a while, they all plan on reriding the Son of Beast once it opens again. its the target audience it appeals to. its for extreme thrillseekers and because of that, there is a good percentage that didnt even ride the Son of Beast when it was open. they will continue to not ride it. the thrillseekers i think will flock to it like herds because they love the thrill of it, and know that the danger of getting hurt is minimal. as long as it is open, i think this will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Jondrewfoo, you might want to take a second to reread your posts before you post them. Your above post was rather difficult to understand. (Even after reading it a second time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jondrewfoo Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Jondrewfoo, you might want to take a second to reread your posts before you post them. Your above post was rather difficult to understand. (Even after reading it a second time). heh sorry, i dunno what i was thinking when i wrote that, it didnt even make sense to me either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenageninja Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Is it open today? Any news would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 I doubt it's open today. But it would be great if it was. Who knows when and if it will open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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