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OK let's get back to the topic and stop arguing about which type of coaster is better. There is not a right or wrong answer. Where is our investigative team? Let's try to solve this puzzle on what we are getting. It's not fun to open the forum and see a bunch of arguing. I like seeing new pieces of the puzzle being presented by other fellow KICers' when they find something new, not a rebuttal about how another coaster maker is better than the other. :)

...so to speak. The Great Shaggy Has Spoken.

I believe KI just showed their hand. I have never revealed my hand when KI speculation is running rampant... but there's a first time for everything. So here goes... I firmily believe KI will be installing it's own version of Wonderland's Leviathan for 2014. There, I've said it. It's a 300+ foot B&M. If it's anything else, then you can all laugh and point... but IMO the writing is on the wall. Shaggy

Something reliable. A dippin dots guy info stand? Tusk - who, really, just laughed at himself.

Certainly not Bart Kinzel. Terp, who just HAD to.

[diversion] It's always interesting to note who is quiet and not speculating. [/diversion] And YES. Someone knows.

Can I laugh and point beforehand? I just like to laugh and point.

Last Saturday, I was watching my sister at a skating show, when I was told my friend Nathan invited me to come to Kings Island with him. After the show, I went home, got ready, headed to my friend’s house, and went to Kings Island. There was Nathan, Nathan’s dad, and his 2 younger siblings, 8 year olds, Owen and Emma. Nathan’s dad took Owen and Emma to Planet Snoopy and we agreed to meet at 1PM at the Eiffel Tower. So, Nathan and I decided to start off on the Eiffel Tower. We got into line as they were getting people on, and we were just short of getting on the next ride. So, we waited about 5 minutes before the next elevator came down. We went into the elevator and headed on up. By the looks of it, Diamondback had just opened up as we got to the top, so we decided to make that our next stop before the line gets extremely long. We also checked out construction. Sorry for the quality, it’s a digital zoom. There was lots of buses for music in the parks! So, after observing all the fun from the Eiffel Tower, we headed to Diamondback. When in line, they opened up the switchback leading into the queue house, which just kept filling up as the day went on. New signs in Diamondbacks queue. So, after waiting about 15 minutes, we got onto Diamondback. It was a great first ride of the year on Kings Island’s tallest and fastest coaster! (At least for now…) Next, we agreed on heading to WindSeeker. It was great to see WindSeeker kicking again! We ended up having to wait again, just like on Eiffel Tower, at the front of the line for the next cycle. We waited about 15 minutes to ride WindSeeker. We waited in our seats for what seemed like forever until the ride started. Now that WindSeeker is open, WindSeeker is where you can get the best view of the new evacuation system. After a fun, cold, windy ride on WindSeeker, we realized we were running short on time until 1. We decided to check if Adventure Express had a short enough line to get a quick ride in. Isn’t this the spot for the Flight Commander queue line? Oh, and there is a sweet looking Colts flag on that fence over there. When we got to the entrance, we decided not to risk waiting in the somewhat long line to be late. We decided for our last 20 minutes to go over and look at the construction site. No more water tower. Xtreme Skyflyer’s new sign. Someone already ripped the sticker. What happened to Servatti? When we got to the Eiffel Tower, it took about 20 minutes for the others to come as well. Once they finally got here, we discussed on something to eat. Nathan and I ended up going to Hanks, and we would meet the others after in the Festhaus. There was a long line at Hanks, that moved so slow. I finally ordered my Taco Salad. Nathan waited for me, as he wanted “a hamburger”. When I got everything, Nathan’s dad said they headed to Chick-Fil-A as the Festhaus was packed. I found a seat next to the huge Chick-Fil-A line as Nathan went to PS Grill to get a burger. I ate my Taco Salad, and eventually Nathan got back with a hamburger and Owen, Emma, and Brian shared Chick-Fil-A. I wasn’t able to finish my taco salad, but still, $7 is not a bad price for something at Kings Island that I wasn’t able to finish. We discussed on what to do next, and decided on heading to Adventure Express. Emma and Brian waited for us, as Emma wasn’t ready to ride yet. This was going to be Owen’s first ride. There was a full queue that ended up taking about 20 minutes. I had a separator notice my KIC shirt, and wondered what my username was. Hmm… Wonder if he is on here… Anyway I got into row 3-2 and Owen and Nathan were behind me. There was a problem with the exit gate, that eventually got fixed, and everyone in the station cheered. So after that, we set off on our mysterious adventure through 4 tunnels, twists and turns, and a mysterious, big, wood, oh wait. It was clear to see that SOB took up a HUGE amount of space on the ride. The ride was, as always, lots of fun, and Owen really enjoyed his first ride on AE. After that, we met Emma and Brian in Coney Confections, and we split up yet again, as they went off to some more new adventures… We decided on heading to Flight Deck. The line started about where this picture was taken and ended up being about 30 minutes. We went into the front row, the pilot’s seats. Our previous mission, to destroy SOB, has been completed. We weren’t sure what our next mission would be, until Great Wolf Lodge started attacking! We had a slight slowdown on our way up, but we were able to manage our way to the top. Then suddenly, we were hit! We were sent straight down, so fast, then up and down again! We twisted and turned until we reached the Flight Deck again. Good thing we got away! I suggested our next stop to be Grand Carousel. We waited about 5 minutes until we boarded our ponies and went in a circle. A nice, calm ride. We then worked our way towards Vortex. We ran into the others on our way past Backlot. They were going to ride Backlot, but the line was an hour. It turns out they Owen and Emma rode WindSeeker for the first time, and enjoyed it. We then proceed our way towards Vortex. Here, I liked how it looked like Diamondback was running into Vortex. We waited a total of about 25 minutes and rode in 5-1. It was a great ride on Vortex! We decided next to head to Zephyr. Zephyr was about a 10 minute wait. A nice ride on a swing, yeah. Nathan wanted to do Dodgems, so we went there. We waited about 5 minutes. I purposely bumped him. A lot. After this, I kind of wanted a snack, so I bought a churro. It was about $4 and it was pretty long. It was pretty good. We took a walk through Tower Gardens on our way to International Street. We headed onto International Street and waited for the others. They soon caught up, and we headed out, and with that, our trip ended. A couple of Notes: *I didn’t notice anything closed today, surprisingly. *On a crowded day, it’s always nice to go around and ride some of the smaller flat rides. *I’m really curious about that construction. Thanks for reading!

More embarrassing to myself than anyone else, but at one point, I was at the park alone, getting in line for 5-1 on Vortex as I often do, and so I go to put my stuff in the bin and I come back and another single rider has taken the other seat. Which I didn't mind one bit. So I realize that this lady is wearing a Linux T-shirt. Linux, for those who don't know, is a semi-obscure computer operating system that a lot of nerds (like myself) enjoy using. Oh, and did I mention that this young lady was drop-dead gorgeous and we WERE both single riders? The embarrassing thing, of course, is that I didn't seize an opportunity to talk to a pretty girl (and likely a single one too, as she was a single rider) who enjoys Linux and 5-1 on Vortex while she was literally strapped to a chair next to me. Well, that last sentence could have been worded a WHOLE lot less creepily...

Mr. Helbig never posts in forums like these.... Lets all bombard his PM!!! Just kidding

I'll bring it back. I was reading the thread about The Beast having water, and i couldn't help but notice some similarities between the original sign for The Beast and this sign we see hanging on the construction fence. The original Beast sign reads, Due to the increasing occurance of mysterious noises, inexplicable tremors, and vicious acts of vandalism within these premises, it has become necessary to suspend the normal operations of the company. Althought the cause of this evil phenomena defies identification, authorities agree it is surely the work of some demonic creature of prodigious size, which for now can only be designated as The Beast. Do the similarities come across to anyone else? I noticed a lot of people came to the conclusion the new construction sign seemed haunt related, but we see the same terminology with The Beast and we know how that turned out. Earlier in this thread some of us referred to seeing similarities with SOB, also. Maybe it means nothing. Maybe it's just how KI likes to do things to keep an overall cohesion to the park. I just couldn't help but to pause and think when I saw the original sign.

Ok - we stopped and took in the new restaurant last weekend. Gotta say, the wait time was reasonable, and having the pager deal worked great. The waitstaff were fine, not exceptional but most are new to this (sit-down) format. My critique - meant as constructively as possible: - food came very (too) fast and was tasty, but not 'fresh' as advertised in the menu. We had fried pickles, a burger, chicken wings, and the kid-meal chicken fingers what were really 'chicken chunks'. Nothing was bad, but nothing was hot either - ie it sat under a heat lamp. Fresh-made trumps fast in my book, but there's no reason it can't be *both*. - some of you know I like a frosty beverage, but the pickings are slim. Bud, Bud light and Stella (for a dollar more). The rest are bottles. Sheesh - Hanks and the waterpark have splendid selections and half the bar space. Why not the same at the Grill? - souvenir cups - you can't refill them in the restaurant? Really?? My kid had to leave the place and go over to Funnel Cakes to get his cup filled. That's just nonsense. - high tables for three - nope. I prefer high tables and I thought that would be fine, but the table we had was wobbly and just doesn't seat three unless you're just having beers. Three meals, three drinks and an appetizer does NOT fit. - decor - TOP NOTCH, love the stats, history, and drama of the Big Red Machine. Flat screens everyplace are positioned well, and having a Reds game while were were there, well it just completes the picture. - other - somebody positioned some kind of server 'station' right behind a bi-swing door into the kitchen. The door cannot swing back because it'll hit the person back there, and it creates a logjam right at the entry to the kitchen. That needs to be fixed so the waitstaff can move faster. Right now they just don't have a chance. Overall, we'll go back after they have some time to iron out the bugs, but it was not a $50 experience - yet. I have high hopes for this place though!

"This is my question. Was Diamondback's construction, (before the track arrived), anything like what we have seen so far?" I believe, as with most other B&M installs, Diamondbacks transfer track footers were among the first poured. B&M's typically have the final brakerun/transfer track installed first so those, coupled with the station footers are among the first poured. Here's Leviathan's first poured footers: First track raised for Leviathan Station/Transfer construction for Leviathan

Certainly not Bart Kinzel, Son of a CEO. Terp, who just HAD to.

Giga stand up wild mouse.

Out of any steel coaster at Kings Island, Top Gun (Flight Deck as these kids call it now in days) is one of my top coasters at Kings Island period. It swings, it roars, it is just a fast, bad coaster that Kings Island will ever have. I would hate to see this great ride to leave Kings Island, it is one of the best and unique rides there, Kings Island would loose a priceless ride.

I've been going to Kings Island since I was about 2 years old and I'm 32 now (you do the math) and I've been lucky enough to not have anything embarrassing happen to me at the park....yet. However, I do have a couple of stories of things I've witnessed while I was there. First one: This was quite some time ago when Soak City was called Water Works. My dad and I were standing in line for the Lazy River and we noticed a rather large man walking up the stairs to take a ride on the now Pineapple Pipeline. I few minutes later we saw him walking back down the stairs. He either decided not to ride it or was told that he was too large to fit. Either way, I always kind of felt bad for him. Second one: I was with a friend of mine, probably back around 1998, and we were in line to ride the Pipeline Paradise. We get to the top where the life guard is and he starts flirting with the her because she was quite attractive. So now it's his turn to go, he grabs a board and heads down towards the wave. He hits the wave so hard that is blew his trunks clean off his backside. He slides off the board and down to the bottom. I just remember him sitting at the bottom trying to wiggle back into his trunks. All the while the cute life guard turns around, now facing me, and is trying to hide her laughter/embarrassment. I was laughing so hard! After going to the park for 30 years without anything happening to me, I'm concerned that the odds are not in my favor. Something is bound to happen eventually and when it does, I'll be sure to write about it on here!

I'm inclined to agree here. The 308' teaser, the fact construction has started so early, and now this...if it's anything but a massive B&M Giga now, I'd be suprised...so, if this is true, what does it mean for the park? (Assuming this is something along the lines of Leviathan, it could be a very different layout...) Well...Diamondback may be screwed if the Giga is too similar. Another gentle, out-and-back style coaster but 70 feet higher would seriously hurt Diamondback's image. The whole marketing ploy for DB this far has been "tallest, fastest, meanest coaster" at Kings Island. How do you market that when a 300' giga coaster rises up on the other side of the park? (Granted, the park may already have figured this out, as on the www.visitkingsisland.com thrill rides main page, it does state how high and fast DB is, but no mention of tallest, fastest, or meanest...another clue a giga is coming? ) Given that a B&M Giga would also be pretty close in many areas to Millennium Force (height, speed, smoothness, etc) and that this one would also be in Ohio, as long as B&M doesn't screw it up, we could also be looking at a challenger for that #1 steel coaster spot in the Golden Ticket Awards, or at the very least a Top 5. Granted, these are biased and hold no real weight to coaster enthusiasts...but one more fun fact, looking at the Mitch Hawker 2012 steel poll, 47 people rode both Leviathan and Millennium Force...Leviathan was the one more liked, in a close 26-21 victory...but MF finished a few spots higher overall. (Leviathan even placing in the Steel Golden Ticket poll was also quite a feat, for it is from Canada...) And the Kings Island B&M Giga should be even better, as B&M has now got Leviathan under their belts to learn from... Of course, if this is an invert or something, this is all just a load of bull speculation. And not the El Toro kind.

^ Can't really have an identical layout if it's a giga since SOB was a hyper. Plus, SOB's layout was pretty boring.

Went to park yesterday...they were doing some serious digging in the area where, if one extrapolates where the current footers are, would be where the bottom of the first drop would be/where SOB's was. Could only see it from Flight Deck, no way to get photos.

And rides are sometimes down for reasons other than breakdowns. The world's tallest coaster, for instance, goes down midday each operating day for a state required inspection. To the average park guest, it appears the ride is down due to breakdown. It isn't.

Awesome trip report. Great pictures. I'm glad everyone had a great time. I especially think it's cool you enjoyed the ponies!

Kentucky Rumbler is a great coaster. It's at least the best operating coaster in Kentucky! Just wish they would allow re-rides on slow days. The magic show and cowboy show were a hoot last season. Definitely worth checking out. If you're a big fan of carnival rides, it's nice to have so many in one place. Where else are you going to ride something from Michael Jackson's personal park?

I'm going to go all Terpy on you all. What if all of the clues you've been given or have found are just a diversion? The similarities from the Original Beast sign to the signs we see on the fence....what if that's just a diversion? What if the clues aren't really clues at all?

Although valleying has nothing to do with the ride manufacturer. Any ride can valley if it's cold and windy.

I'm sorry to say some people value the experience more than safety, Terpy. That's why we need height requirements at all.

Speaking of gas, when I left Lima, Ohio this morning gas was 3.89. Now I am in Williamsburg, Virginia and I have seen it as low as 3.18. Crazy how big of a difference it is.

Holiday World's are bison and buffalo. Doesn't get much cooler than that.

I've watched so many good sets get replaced with slower, safer ones. Lawyers and lawsuits. Sigh.

If I remember correctly, The Beast queue still had water even after Vortex was built, but I could be mistaken. The years all run together and I don't remember what year the water was removed (but I do think it was after 1987, Vortex's debut season). As to why the water was removed, Shaggy had a good post a few years ago:

Anyone here ever visited this place? If so, how was it? We visited the park today as Chaperone's for our Daughter's 5th grade class. Upon arriving at the park, I felt a little uneasy since it is basically a giant Midway packed full of Carnival rides. A small Wooden Coaster and a Drop Tower are the exceptions. This uneasiness grew when I took a ride on Zero G(The Drop Tower ride) the ride would not work because of a seat belt not being secure and he could not figure out which one. So he had to call for some help. This call was done by yelling for another person a couple rides away and waving his arms until he got noticed. The offending belt was found and off we went. The ride doesn't mess around like DT at KI, once it reaches the top, down you go. The next ride we went to was Power Surge. Halfway into this ride I notice an object coming at us from above and about crapped when it bounced off of our seats and hit the 10 year old I was riding with. It then smacked onto the platform below. Once the ride stopped the Op retrieved the object and didn't seem to care that it was actually a part of the ride. He walked the part a couple rides over to show someone. The ride was shut down for a few minutes and put back into operation. The part that fell off was a large Hatch Strut that I figure was from an Access Door on the rides arm. Thankfully the door didn't fall off with it. Thankfully the 10 year old was not hurt but the Teacher still went to talk with Management. After that I was done with the Carnival Rides and decided to try out the Woodie, Kentucky Rumbler. The coaster is small but has some good speed and banked turns. Hands down the only thing in the park worth riding. Of course it was stuck on the lift hill later on. Eventually it climbed the hill and made the trip. Then it left the station with a load of people. They closed the entrance but allowed those in line to ride before closing it for good. That was very odd to me. I spent the rest of the day watching the kids enjoy the Carnival Rides, with the exception of riding the Mouse Coaster with them. The food at the park is mostly your standard park food, Hot Dogs, Burgers, etc and not worth writing home about. Prices are high and gone are their Free Drinks. The ride ops are drones and obviously wish they were doing something else. Lots of the carnie rides would go down on a regular basis. Sadly, we will never again set foot in this "Park". I have never once before felt unsafe on a ride but Beech Bend has changed that. Sucks because I had heard so many nice things about the place in the past.

Congo Falls= Best airtime in the park with no seatbelt or restraint. I can see why.

No, and I'm not complaining, just noting observations. Out of all the rides Intamin has built at CP over the past two decades, Millennium Force, while grand, is not complex in terms of technology. Yes, the elevator system was novel (and subsequently the root of most of its early issues), but Millie takes you up, and gravity does the rest. That's it. It's not only an issue of downtime, which is greater with Intamin, but reliability in terms of getting what was promised. I had no fear that Gatekeeper would open on time and be ready for me to ride a few days later. Why? B & M. Wicked Twister, Top Thrill, Maverick, Shoot the Rapids...all recent, all Intamin, and all required significant, significant modifications that either delayed the opening of the ride or caused serious, serious interruptions in service. Do they all run well today? Yes. Did it take an expensive, time-intensive effort to get them all to that point? Yes. B & Ms are good to go out of the box. That's the difference.

You can process your pass at any time the park is open now. If you plan on going to one of the shows, plan to be there early as the shows will reach capacity!

Never been on a ride that had parts fall of it before so yeah my report is skewed way against the park. The park is laid out well and the water park looked nice but was not open yet. I can and do appreciate small parks and care about more than B&M Coasters. I was hesitant to post this report as I figured big fans such as yourself would take offense to a negative review. Sorry you took pointing out things and relaying abad trip as complaining.

Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, Volkswagen, KIA, Honda, Toyota, BMW - you see these on the side of the road and they are all vehicles that are said to be some of the best cars being built these days. I see all coasters down at some point. But, just like the automobiles mentioned above, they are machines ---and not fault-free. Our bodies are machines too and none of us are fault-free (although there are some.....). And in the end, whatever this new attraction turns out to be, we will all experience it and be glad that King's Island/Cedar Fair spent the capital so we can enjoy it. Who knows - maybe there will be a real Banshee and she gives piggyback rides as she wails and hollers - a frightening sound heard throughout the park! (her full name is Betty Mercer - hence, B&M)

^Curious question, how was the burger both overcooked and very rare? Edit: I misread carry on

*makes a mental note to stay away from Beech Bend* Thanks for the report.

With response to the downtime topic, I think coasters that have new technology are down more often. Intamin makes more rides that are cutting edge then B&M and so they might have more downtime. My very short and simple response to this side topic. On the other hand I do love reading this topic. Thats all I do at school is constantly check my phone for new updates!

Look, Intamin builds some VERY nice rides. But downtime with Intamin is just too often. No one is disputing the quality of Intamin rides, but the reliability of these rides is the problem. In addition, I don't think the general public cares and/or even is aware of who the ride manufacturer is.

correct, I doubt the footer issue was a B & M issue. It may have been a construction methods issue, could have just been a problem previously unforseen/unpredictable. If I'm in charge, knowing that I just tore down a 200+ foot tall problem, as well as an indoor flat ride, I'd want something that had a history of reliablity as well as providing some excitement. Build a 325 foot giant, perhaps stretch it out long enough to reclaim the title of world's longest rollercoaster for the park, and you can spend the next 6 seasons focusing in on improving the family aspect of the park. adding mid size flats to Action Zone, adding to the water park, improving the kids area, etc...Then you've got a good track record on the reliability of a ride like outlaw run, you're far enough removed from SOB that a nice mid size woodie w/ inversions is a solid, reliable addition.

El Toro. Millennium Force. Eiffel Towers. Bizarro at SFNE. All VERY reliable rides. Chang, a B&M, broke its chain on media day.

There is little doubt that B & M coasters are historically more reliable, but there is a simple reason for this; they don't take as many risks as Intamin. Intamin, for whatever reason, is consistently reinventing the technology of rides as they go. They have a large margin for risk in their rides. The downside? Modifications, downtime, etc... The upside? You are responsible for the worlds top wooden (El Toro) and steel coaster (MF)...and Maverick. Top Thrill Dragster is no longer the disaster it once was, it took the park nearly 5 years to get the kinks consistently ironed out. Maverick had an inversion removed that only enthusiasts know about, but other than that it has the longest lines of any ride at the park on any given day. There's no point in arguing which is "better"; that's too subjective. But what is different is clear. I'm also guilty of bashing Intamin, but MF is hands down the best ride I have ever ridden in my life, with El Toro a very, very, very close second. Let's also not forget that there are many other companies out there. I would only lean towards B & M b/c of the current Cedar Fair trend.

Knoebel's Grove Amusement Resort has among the best left in the land.

Leviathan probably has one of the most boring layouts I have ever seen. So If it is a Giga I hope it has a lot more twisty turns. I also hope they don't cut the ride short like they did Leviathan. Just over 5.4k feet and it's taller then 300ft? How high off the ground is that final brake run again?

I'm preeeeeetty sure if it was announced that this was just a boring old B&M giga we would all still be lining up first day.

B&Ms are nice, but I'm not here for a larger version of Diamondback. I would rather have an Intamin than another sit down, non inverting B&M coaster. Maverick is my all time favorite coaster with Millennium Force behind that. So I would say Intamin>B&M

The bumper cars at Cedar Point are much more insane than the KI ones.

Indeed. Bavarian Beetle is closed and gone.

I'm new here but love Kings Island, personally I would like something like Top Thrill Dragster, even though I know that will never happen, I think it'll probably be a giga, whos to say? lol but I love reading the posts on here!