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I don’t know where they get their data but mine comes from sentiment reports — the same kind of reports used by theme parks throughout the industry and decisions get made from. I’ve done several sentiment reports on Orion since it debuted in 2020. The sentiment is it’s a good ride, but not a ride that drives attendance. It hasn’t delivered the expected ROI. The Beast on the other hand continues to drive attendance going on 47 years since its 1979 debut.

I too like some of the others on here thought the Phantoms were too "cute" or "friendly" when I first saw them but the design has grown on me. In the original they were borderline creepy and I think that's the difference in the two attractions - original phantom they were meant to be creepy and haunted. The new one they are supposed to be engaging characters once again but they are a bit more family friendly. I think it has the potential to be a great ride and as I have said before I think it's great that people are being creative and not just bringing back a 30 year old ride. I know we still have beloved old dark rides at Disney or Knoebels but when you are creating something new for today's audiences I think it's natural that it changes a bit from what the expectations of a dark ride were in 1992. Oh I also don't think I've mentioned yet that I think the red "box seats" or doom buggies look better than even the original ones did. The greyish blue was classic of course but the red gives it a real restored theater vibe. Really digging the red ride vehicles

Say this louder for the people in the back!

100%, my dude. They look significantly better than the original figures. Not that they were bad or anything, but 34 years allows technology to develop in such a way that, on a surface level, makes them superior. The movement and articulation of the new Maestro when specifically compared to the original makes it obvious. To go further, yeah… I adore the art direction of the original ride. Everything about it. But I’m not going to sit here and say this new direction looks worse. I know that’s mostly objective, but come on: Ultimately, comparison is a thief of joy. I’m just hyped for what’s in store. Sally knows what they’re doing. Based on what little we’ve seen in the Curtain Call BTS series and via the filed plans, it seems like it’s going to be done right. Only time will tell…

I think the ornaments are from either a small holiday photoshoot that Sally Dark Rides did or it's from a potential holiday overlay mock-up for PT:ON. There were also some photos with Maestro in a Santa costume, but all of these photos were taken in the SDR workshop so we probably won't know much until later this year. As much as some commenters like to say the art style is "too cartoony" I really like the new looks for everyone. It's taken the original characters and mixed their appearances with No Legs Larry's puppet form from Phantom Theater Encore. Either way, isn't it better for everyone to look more "lively" in preparation for the theater's grand reopening? I'd much rather that than going to see them in their less mortal, more corrupted state

Introducing... Sir Pretzel!

the same way that 47 years after it's construction, The Beast is still a top 3 (maybe even 1 or 2) at KI- and is usually featured on a majority of their marketing pieces. It always has a wait, high on guest reviews.... and that popularity has endured the pandemic, droughts, hot weather, terrible summers, bad ride attendants, GMs, and countless recessions. It is a a textbook definition of a "Great Coaster". It is remarkable, out of the box, and not available anywhere else. People come, sometimes specifically, to ride the legendary Beast.

In 2026, Cedar Point’s pioneering looping coaster marks 50 years since it opened in 1976. http://sanduskyregister.com/go/6c78ba01489fd

Regarding a coaster doesn't have to be the tallest to be an airtime machine. Maverick is one of my absolute favorite rides ever for the intensity and airtime. The first time I rode Lightning Run, I was floored how much airtime and how much fun it is in a small footprint. Fury is in a class by itself. I rode it 25 times the day I was there last. It is a truly incredible ride, and I traveled all the way there just to ride it (and my former Eagles too). Saying that, I love Orion's height, quick lift to the first drop and the speed it keeps up throughout the ride. Out of the hundreds of times I have ridden it, no one riding with me has been disappointed afterwards. It's just a lot of fun and I am happy to have it in my home park.

We do? As an enthusiast I’m pretty aware that my opinion on rides and parks will be vastly different compared to the GP. And I think we often sell the average guest short on their opinions and feelings.

There was no concern it wasn’t record-breaking. That’s marketable until a ride opens and then it doesn’t matter if the ride doesn’t live up to the hype. People who were at the park at the time knew that, and knew it well. (Son of Beast) The decision to make it more family oriented so more guests would want to ride it was based on who the majority of the visitors to Kings Island have been, is now, and will always be: families. So, where does that come into play? The height. At 287, it looks less intimidating from the midways than 300-plus would have been. It still hits speeds over 90 mph and just 4 mph slower than Fury 325. It’s not because the height is only 287 that Orion ranked outside the top 40 in the 2025 Golden Ticket Awards for Best Steel Coasters. It’s not because of the length of the ride. It’s not because it opened during the pandemic. It’s because it’s missing an element that Fury 325 and Diamondback both have that riders absolutely love about those rides: an abundance of airtime. If Orion had Diamondback’s airtime, the sentiment about the ride is dramatically different. More parkgoers would be talking about it as one of the best.

I believe all of this could be done without leveling any of The Vortex plot. Instead of an entirely new themed area, it might be easier to bring back the "Old Coney" name and realign the midway. That frees up space for a larger indoor dining location, fixes the kink in the midway brought on by KMAA, and could still allow for a new flat ride to go back there depending on how everything is placed. Jukebox is replaced by the new indoor restaurant and Coney Potato Works could make a comeback to give purpose to that seating area (and provide another dining location). This all could probably happen for much less money while killing a few birds with one big boulder. Here's a mock-up I've been working on for another topic thread to better show the idea. It does include the removal of WindSeeker and the addition of a new dark ride in Action Theater, but that would come at a later time.

What do we think these white tarps (?) at the bottom of Mystic Timbers' drop are for? Maybe some new wood (already though?) or general coverings for some reason?

Absolutely they don't look the same but I think everyone knows that even if they create a carbon copy of the original somehow it still wouldn't be as good in the eyes of the original fans. So pleasing the original fans is not the goal. The goal is to bring back characters that are popular in park lore and to create a ride that original fans will enjoy because it's a new version of the original and create something that appeals to the average guest and to kids because while I know phantom theater is located on international Street technically it's so close to Planet Snoopy that alot of kids go through that building

I honestly love the new animatronics compared to the old ones and I've actually ridden the original PT. These animatronics look a lot more lively and interactive more so than the original PT animatronics. I'm just hoping it's going to be more of a dark ride than Boo Blasters meaning less bright lights. 😅

I actually really love Sir Pretzel and the reasoning behind his name, he’s my favorite now because there’s no previous design from the original to compare him to. (I had a shock seeing they slightly changed Lionel’s outfit in the background and I’m hoping they do him justice (as if he was a vital character in the original)) Also RIP Bosco for real now, iykyk.

Or just keep it simple and open a new looper and just reuse The Vortex name. Its a household name and it leans into the park's affinity for nostalgia. The park has now had two Bat coasters, while the current one was not originally named that upon its opening, it still bears the name of a historic landmark coaster. And we are literally getting an updated Phantom Theater which bears the same name + some extra verbiage. I think older fans would appreciate the nod and the new generation would have their own Vortex to grow up with.

Looks like the usual "cold weather tunnel" for doing trackwork, but trackwork on a GCI less than ten years old seems odd. That section is higher-stress though so maybe a new top layer and fresh steel? I haven't seen a Notice of Commencement for a while, so I'm not sure if GCI has a contract open with the park right now. Most parks have GCI do tracking on their GCI rides (SFMM being a notable exception, but wood track seems to dry out quickly there and Apocalypse got retracked down to the ledgers by a third party a number of years ago now.)

It's also hard to gather any definitive reports that would compare well to other major coasters because it a) opened during the middle of the pandemic when a number of guests were hesitant to travel/return to the parks, and b) operated for half of a "normal" season during a time where park attendance was limited and guests had to have a reservation to visit the park. I think one metric that hurts Orion's standings is that it is easily comparable to a small set of giga coasters and is a similar model to a larger set of hyper coasters (which are both the same model to the manufacturer). My data comes from this site and other park enthusiast community forums I think if Kings Island fans are looking for a coaster model that might do better in terms of ROI or guest sentiment, they should look to coaster models that are not as easily comparable to anything Cedar Point or Carowinds has. The new Vekoma Ghostrider model from the survey only has one installation that is still under construction. That could be compared to Maverick or Copperhead Strike, but even then, the Ghostrider model shown has a grouping of elements not seen in either of those. Comparison is the thief of joy.

I'm asking the question as a means to point out the absurdity of the claims you're making. You stated that the "typical guest sentiment" is that Orion is "just OK". I'm asking how you arrived at this conclusion. Is there survey data somewhere that leads you to this conclusion? You then stated that the park should have done something different in order to "sell tickets". I'm asking how you arrived at the conclusion that Orion did not "sell tickets" or otherwise meet the park's desired goals for the investment. Do you have access to the park's expectations for the ride? Or the performance metrics? Anything at all to substantiate the claim you're making? It's one thing to say that you were personally underwhelmed by the ride, or that you wish they had done something different with the investment. It's another thing entirely to state with certainty that the park isn't hitting its expected attendance marks or that Orion is viewed by guests as underwhelming. Others have pointed it out, but it bears repeating - enthusiasts generally are not great at understanding what it takes to run a successful, well rounded amusement park, because they tend to assume their own preferences are widely shared by the average guest. That is just not true.

Years ago I went to Holiday World around July 4th and they had an all you can eat buffet cookout in their picnic area. I think that could be something KI could look into and they could sell tickets to it with a discount for those with a dining plan.

Sir Pretzel = Pretzel Dark Rides… duh. He looks great! Archie:

The launch of Orion was different than other new ride openings during my years at Kings Island. Everyone was working from home due to COVID-19 leading up to the opening of Orion, combined with a restructuring in marketing that led to less collaboration with these things. There weren’t the kinds of discussions there had been with previous new attractions to be able to tell you if that was considered. I agree a “Mission Accomplished” soundtrack would have been a cool ending. That’s something they easily could still add.

I've always said that KI's 4th of July event should be more than just "come for what's already here and stay for a bigger firework show". Add specialty food offerings, have special activities and entertainment geared towards the holiday. Give the locals something that would make them decide to spend their 4th of July day at KI rather than their local July 4th festival. Bc locals can go to KI pretty much anytime over the summer, but they can't go to a local 4th of July event any other day. Also since Soak City usually gets the most crowded on the 4th, I wouldn't mind spreading some of the "special activities and entertainment" over there. Like set up a stage and do live bands over there. I also think doing some sort of camp fire/s'mores thing in Camp Snoopy as the sun goes down would be kinda cool. I believe Knotts used to do something like that as part of Summer Nights. Like imagine spending your day in Soak City then coming back after the waterpark closes and seeing special camp activities and campfires/s'mores going on. As a kid I would've LOVED that.

It is after all a flat ride.

Okay—keep the skepticism if it helps you win your day.

Meanwhile Stardust Racers is/are small all things considered in height… but packs a ton of airtime throughout the entire duration of the experience. Definitely shows you don’t have to have a record breaker to draw crowds. I agree with you about Orion. It’s missing something, and for me personally it ends too quickly. It doesn’t have that “final act” moment.

Revolution at Six Flags Magic Mountain is also turning 50!

Simply put, I was there. Directly involved. Now let me ask you: What part of the 5,321 feet of track you travel on an Orion train would have been different had there not been a pandemic when it opened? That’s what the sentiment is based on — the ride experience.

I didn't suggest that it did. You stated that the installation of Orion did not meet attendance and ROI targets, and seem to be suggesting that the reason it did not do so is because of the supposed guest sentiment that the ride is "just OK". I'm pointing out that the ride opened during a pandemic, which is a rather monumental factor to consider when trying to analyze attendance and ROI. Therefore, I'm asking how you were able to determine that it was that guest sentiment, rather than a once-in-a-century pandemic, that is primarily to blame for Orion's poor performance.

All that. They already have the resources, they just don’t use them. Enclosing the lower part of the lift and certainly the final brake with lighting/projection would be another fairly inexpensive add

The chain/park does have an opportunity to do something amazing though. While I realize we've gotten smaller additions the last few years, if 2027 were our year for a major installation, that would mark the 40th anniversary for Vortex if it were still standing. That would make for an incredibly awesome way to honor a classic while also giving us the much anticipated big coaster. One can dream.

Ugh. More Fast and Furious. Was hoping for something different for east/west coast.

What does it even mean and how would it be enforced? Are they gonna watch you eat the meal?

Wonder if this new "No Sharing" policy will make it to the other parks....

The database that needed to up was upgraded was done this weekend by @malem . 🥳 With that announcement, let's make sure our forums are not a threads of emoji codes by using emojis sparingly. 😁 Thanks for your help on behalf of the KIC Admin. 🙂

I do hope we get a phantom theater holiday overlay that’s properly done, not just decorations but new dialogue and music maybe, I like the new style too and I do think they need to be a little more innocent looking due to the fact that you don’t want children who loved boo blasters to be afraid of this new ride and after all this is a family ride

Bringing back some kind of Fourth of July barbecue or cookout might be the best option for "specialty" food. It would definitely help any additions if the event ran for a week instead of just two days. Cedar Point is supposed to host a one day America 250 event (info from the ACE No Coaster Con), but no other information like potential food offerings was given.

I’d say you’re probably right. Maybe Archie as well!

I believe 2017 was the last time KI hosted dive in movie nights. However, they hosted the "Island Nights" glow party with ERT on select water rides in Soak City in 2018 and 2019. I believe 2020 they were going to introduce a new "Summer Nights" event in Action Zone, but Covid messed that up and that whole concept was shelved and never revisited. I also would like to see Coaster Camp Out return in some form which was held up until Covid.

I think it'd be cool if for one night they kept some of the pools open and had a movie playing for people to swim and watch. Similar to what Disney does at their resorts.

Introduction to new characters that we are about to encounter. Mr. Pretzel is one of those "friends."

Orion has been successful but when it comes down to giga/hyper comparison, Cedar Point and Carowinds have a better grasp on two different rides. I think Orion gets hate amongst enthusiasts me included for being too similar to Diamondback. The large airtime hills just do the exact same thing. For example let's take Cedar Point - hyper is airtime machine and the giga is the positive g speed machine. Take Carowinds - hyper is light floater airtime and Fury is low to the ground speed mixed with some airtime. Orion suffers from not having that speed element distinction from Diamondback much how behemoth and leviathan feel very similar (so what if one of them is a little bit taller?) point is that layout wise Orion and Diamondback are both modified out and back layouts that focus on big airtime hills. Literally very few difference and that's why it gets all the hate it does. Having said that it's still my #3 in the park and it was an improvement from Firehawk albeit less unique in the lineup. So I think for me it was a more than worthy replacement and if CGA hadn't run into permits and permission issues one must consider that we very well might not have gotten a giga at all so their loss was our gain

And here we are 6 years later and this horse has been more than beaten to death...

With respect. I think there is a difference. Orion keeps it's speed throughout much of the ride and Diamondback, which I love, is more of an airtime machine. I absolutely love the speed Orion has. Sure, maybe some low to ground curves like Fury could add to that effect I agree. But I ride Orion because it hauls. That's why I love The Voyage and Top Thrill 2 so much...it's zen feeling for me going that fast on a coaster.

Yeah I think that $350 seems fair. As with most collectibles it's only worth what someone will pay for it. Probably not a gold mine but definitely a very cool piece of history from the park!

I wholly agree with you on that first point! The Crypt's building and area would be better suited to a Rivertown expansion so a new lake and town area could be added alongside a new dedicated entertainment venue. The Vortex plot should be occupied by a thrill coaster — not a family thrill coaster. It doesn't need to be the biggest or baddest of anything, but a Big Bear Mountain-style coaster would not fit what the area does need. Whatever replaces Vortex needs to be photogenic and vertically diverse. Photogenic to give guests a new visually stunning ride to view from the pathways. Vertically diverse so it both adds to Kings Island's skyline while filling out the space provided by the ravine. The park also has a desperate need for an inversion machine, and family coasters very notably do not feature inversions. If the park was looking to make their next coaster family-friendly, why would they use the Vekoma Ghostrider model on the most recent survey? I understand that Kings Island is a "family park", but those families grow up and want more thrilling coasters as their children get tired of what the park has. There's an argument to be made that it should have a 48" height requirement (or similar). I get why that might be. The issue is that Kings Island has been playing it safe and it has not worked out in their favor very much. Orion was made to appeal to families and didn't receive a high enough ROI: though Orion opened in July during the middle of a global pandemic, so there were other issues with its opening. River Racers was designed to appeal to a larger audience while leaving more budget for other attractions and did not receive very stellar reviews in its first season of operation. My point with these two examples is that appealing to a broader audience hasn't really worked out well for Kings Island. Yes, families who want thrills could go up to Cedar Point, but it's unlikely that they would go as often as they might if they could have something more thrilling at KI. As families struggle more with the economy there's also less chance that they'd be willing to travel the 3+ hours.

I've made a Planet Coaster ride of what I think Vortex could look like if it was a 15 inversion monster. Stats: 187 ft. 76 mph. 15 Inversions 5451 ft in length. 4.1 G.s The coaster also features a dual sided locker system like on Siren's Curse. But the lockers are found at the top floor. Two Disability elevators for each side. Genesis is a fictional company and the antagonist of the ride.

I collect Kings Island memorabilia...and with that said, I don't personally think you are looking at any kind of a gold mine with these. If you had something more interesting like the head, or even the vest it would be something that someone could display in their home...but a couple of gloves are not that interesting to look at. (imho) eBay will always be the final say on what someone is willing to spend on them...but my guess is at the max these would sell for about $350.00.