Shaggy

Part of the consideration of the move of the Flight of Fear coasters involved a total re-theme. Surveys were sent to various folks... myself included... that gave different options. I can't recall the specifics of the potential FOF re-theme, but do recall it having something to do with MTV - ala Rock n Roller Coaster and it was to be called "Soundwave." Here's the rendering: Another little known fact is that there were MANY proposed theme changes to significant parts of KI. One shocker is that plans were in the works to re-theme Coney Mall to "TV LAND." TV Land was supposed to re-vitalize the neglected back corner of the park and would have been anchored by the install of "Addams Family Values - The Ride" that was slated to have it's entrance built in the general area of the Flight Commander pad. The park was close to securing the rights to the characters for the attraction when the Countess that owned them passed away leaving the trademark in limbo. That negated the install and the park passed on the ride unit itself. You can still ride it though... it became "Mystery Mine" at Dollywood instead. Also of note is that originally Tomb Raider was to have it's entrance placed in the area in which the Addams ride was later proposed. When the decision to remove KCKC was made - TR was re-surveyed for that spot. Well prior to that, Drop Zone was originally slated for this same area... but the park passed on it and expanded the waterpark instead. The original Drop Zone proposed for KI was instead installed at PCW. KI didn't get theirs for years... and got a much larger version. Drop Zone and Face/Off were last minute decisions provoked by the decision to build SOB. Once the park knew that they wanted to build SOB, they decided to overhaul the sad Adventure Village area of the park and remove all traces of the former Safari Theme. They quickly made the decision to add the two rides the year prior to SOB, which explains why PKI installed a small foot-print shuttle instead of a full circuit invert. In addition, prior to the decision to remove the Safari Monerail, PPD&E actually drew up plans for an attraction called "Movierail" that would have used the Safari Trams. Guests would have passed by recreations of Paramount Movie Scenes and iconic tv sets. For instance the Brady Bunch House. I know it seems far fetched, but trust me... it's all true. Shaggy

I would expect KI's next coaster might likely be a B&M full circuit invert. Shaggy

For those of you not in the know about "Fresh Horses" the Molly Ringwald movie flmed at KI... here's the clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6LPtz8CXJY

I did a search and found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq_tkxWV-QY It's a link to the press announcement held in London this week. If you skip to 7:24, you'll see the Coney Island footage I was referring to. If you skip to 11:04 in the video, then you'll hear the song I was referring to. Shaggy

I was fortunate enough to hear some of the music from the show since I am in "the business." I am never one for sequels... movies, tv shows etc... only because they always seem to fall short. On Broadway it's never fared better (Think "Bring Back Birdie." Oy vey!) Not saying this wont... however the few songs I've heard from it are incredible. There's one called "Till I hear you sing" that is on par with his mega hits "Memory," "Music of the Night," and "Don't Cry for me." That song alone has caused me to become VERY excited about this show. Well, that and the fact I recently got to experience Coney firsthand recently. Rumor has it that the opening of the show will include EXTREMELY rare footage of Coney in it's heyday shown on the main curtain during the overture. Apparently it's film found only in the National Archives. Oh and the overture has a haunting/turn of the century/carousel sound to it. It's IMO as memorable as the original Phantom overture. So far, so good! Shaggy

Take a gander... it's a new way of filming. It, essentially, gives real videos a look of "Miniatures" ala train models. Walt Disney World is the subject, simply amazing! http://www.gadling.com/2009/10/02/tilt-shi...fe-of-disney%2F Shaggy

Uh, first of all, The Crypt is a Hindu temple, not an Aztec Tomb, and it today contains a pink bat demon, giant Hindu goddess, and (according to the t-shirt) an Egyptian mummy. DUH. Get it right. So for those of you counting, Rivertown is a mysterious Ohio settlement town that plays host to a pink bat, a Hindu goddess, an Egyptian Mummy, a savage beast, and a giant snake. And really no, the rides don't necessarily fit, but they easily COULD with a bit of a pre-show, even if told through signs. Hydra did place Hercules, so that's actually a bit clever. Talon and Raptor are so named because you appear to be in the grip of a bird of prey. A giant nest in the queue would easily tell people this. Diamondback is, as I said above, another unique animal to find a home in Rivertown. When discussing it in print material to give to my friends, I prefer to call it "Operation: Firehawk" because I think that well explains what it's supposed to be: a government prototype flight device for which you're the guinea pig. It makes sense and fits in X-Base in that regard, and again, could be easily explained in a short pre-show video or even a sign or two scattered about the queue. Intimidator, no that doesn't make sense. At all. I actually tend to think Flight of Fear does make sense in the Congo because of my ever-optimistic mind... As if the government set up a secret facility in the deep jungle. It requires that their Flight of Fear have a different storyline than ours (perhaps, you stumble upon an abandoned government facility during your jungle trek, find an old, decaying spaceship within, wander into it, etc.). However, even that storyline sort of falls through with the new Intimidator. The two could be CLOSER to matching if they recieved their own X-Base redo, but who knows if that will happen. It really should, since that would also encompass their Backlot Stunt Coaster. All three are in the same corner. But then again, their map no longer highlights differently themed areas anyway, since it's a Cedar Fair style map, so it wouldn't make a difference to the casual park-goer. I think you just spent a lot of time reaffirming my point. Don't try to rationalize any consistant "theme" in the parks. There isn't one. Resistance is futile. Shaggy

You think so? I don't find theming to be CF's forte either. They've had a few installs that suit the area in name and sometimes look... but overall THEMING isn't their gig. Typically, Cedar Fair develops a coaster and attatches a noteworthy name to it. Sometime it "fits" the area, sometimes is doesn't. Of course nothing can cause us to scratch our heads quite like an Aztec Tomb in the middle of Rivertown... but that's another story. Typically, CF chooses monster or beast type names with some weight to them as a stand alone. There's little regards to the surroundings IMO. Raptor, Hydra, Talon, Diamondback, Behemoth, Firehawk etc etc etc. None of those have *anything* to do with their surroundings in the parks. The best example of this is actually a forthcoming install... Intimidator at KD. It's a Nascar-named ride who's entrance will lie off the FOF plaza. FOF's entrance happens to have a theme of an "off limits government area." But that lies in the middle of a "Congo" themed section of the park. And the Congo themed area of the park also includes a Hollywood Back-Lot themed ride. Confused? We all are... I guess the point is... the days of regional "Theme Park" chains adhering to "Themed" areas are loooooong gone. Shaggy

Don't they have a parking lot coaster? Do they ever! They also count this as a coaster... which has always been up for debate. Actually, it serves as one gigantic lawn ornament AFAIK. I have no idea if the thing is, or is not operating these days. The interesting thing about the latter picture is the fact that in the background you can see cars parked in an essentialy empty parking lot. Where those cars are parked is where Scream... the coaster in the former picture... now resides. Also of note is the fact that the latter picture was likely taken from the observation tower... something that also has only had sporadic operating times through the years. (The picture is also absent the station/lift hill of Goliath, which was built intertwining with Colossus.) Shaggy

Not to mention if I were Dick Kinzel, I'd very quietly go out and buy two small kiddie coasters and add to my Snoopy area at the Point. Doesn't CP already have the kiddie coaster from GL in storage? Shaggy

Why the change in tone - because Shaggy posted the following statements Livened things up, did it not? Shaggy - ever the antagonist ;-)

Well, let me first respond to your final comments: 1. KI (Cedar Fair) would like to open a major new coaster in the next 4 years (consistent with their history) CF also has a lead time on new installs by about 3-4 years as well. That means, the next coaster for KI is probably already in developmental stages. 2. KI (Cedar Fair) is not looking to spend $20 million on a coaster anytime soon, considering the debt and recent investments in the chain. See, I view the investments as a sign that CF IS willing to spend the money on coasters. This year's announcements alone signal to me that they aren't about to get stingy now. 3. Tearing the ride out and NOT replacing it with something equally epic might hurt their image with paying guests. Why? I think tearing it out would bother very few people. People don't seem to be picketing since the ride has been closed all summer. If it's not operating, what's the difference whether it's physically present or not? CF already proved they aren't feeling to patient with temperamental rides at other parks... think Hypersonic. 4. The public (and insurance company) would buy a partially re-made SOB (a la Kennywood Tbolt and Phantom) You sure about that? I have a friend that swears he'll never ride it again... changes or not. He says "I was lucky that I didn't get hurt the first time." You can't erase that notion from people's minds with the removal of a "rosebowl." 5. The lift hill and drop are not part of the "roughness" problem. No... just the loudness problem. LOL ;-) Again, if it were me... I'd tear it down, and not necessarily replace it with a coaster... there's lots of other things that could be done with that land for far less money. Shaggy

If you are talking about the one at SFMM, California law requires that looping coasters have OTRS. Why they were first installed on Revolution, I don't know, but it can't go back. I assume that Monty's Revenge at KBF is grandfathered in. I understood the reason for Revolutions (Yes SFMM) OSTRS was based on the park's inane decision, not the states. SFKK will operate much better as a waterpark, IMO. The park has never *clicked* in it's nearly 20 years of operation. Lord knows it's tried every trick in the book... but just never felt *right.* Shaggy

... Who was once moved to be the GM of SFKK, I believe, to help revitalize that park... she was quickly moved back. I assume it's based on the obvious limitations SFKK has always faced. Shaggy

Mindbender at Six Flags Over Georgia was to become Riddler, and even got all kinds of ? marks all over it, but local management prevailed, and it was not to be. Thank goodness for that! Six Flags has a few gems in their pockets that they hardly appreciate. Mindbender is one of them... Shockwave is another... if only Mr Shapiro would recognize them and re-instate Revolution as it was intended to operate. I will say it until I am blue in the face... even B&M cannot be compared to the absolute artistry, and genious of Schwarzkopf. Shaggy

HW has been doing that to them for years... KI too... there were 4 Diamondback billboards within 2 miles of SFKK.

"When I asked Mark about Chang he had an interesting response, explaining that he was always bothered by the ride, and felt it was a glaring example of what was wrong with the previous Six Flags management. You see, the ride's name was odd and didn't exemplify what the ride did or the fun you could have on it. It was just sorta slapped down without much effort and was never really a good fit for the park." Jimminy Crickets! He needs to study up on his parks. Neither Six Flags nor Premier "Slapped down" Chang. Ed Hart... the park's previous owner did. He just stuck Premier with the bill for it. Later... Six Flags Management wanted to "re-theme" the coaster to Joker/Riddler... that's why it lost it's solid yellow color and gained purple supports. Shaggy *Edit* Whoops, others beat me to the point before I could click submit ;-)

LOL, I'm quite varied in my musical tastes. I also spent my teens in the 1980s, so I can't help it. ;-) Shaggy

the execs may say "John you have the option of either having SOB redesigned with new trains, or using the capitol to buy music licensing for the park" lol Tough choice... I'd probably have to go with the recent theme in this thread... Shaggy ;-)

No need to explain... I am enjoying the discussion... these are the types of threads I truly enjoy. A post can be read 5 different ways, with 5 different tones. I certainly didn't mean to sound condescending in my posts. I take little offense to other's disagreeing with my opinions as long as it's not a personal slap. Fact is, I would LOVE it if SOB could finally be turned into the ride it should have been. But I think that chance is nill. Than again, if someone said to me, at this point "John, you have the option of either having SOB redesigned, or using that capitol for a bevvy of other additions to KI, which do you choose?" My answer would be... "Get Bolliger and Mabillard on the phone."

You seem to have taken offense at my post. Let me clarify...Enthusiasts is a group in which I include myself. However I do not include myself in the division of enthusiasts that cannot see the forest for the... um... wooden coasters. You are absolutely right in that I am not a Cedar Fair Board Member. For all I know, it could re-open this weekend. However, if I were calling the shots... I'd put it out of it's misery. The legend and notoriety will always exist with SOB. It's been one of the most talked about coasters ever built. I know I'll not ride it again (in present shape) and that's really saying something. Most here don't know my vast past with SOB... so to see what it's been through over the years actually makes me feel bad. Many of us actually believed it was going to be one of the greatest coasters ever built. Boy, I sure rooted for it. But the fact is, it's now an embarassment to the park. And I love KI overall far more than I do any one ride in it. Shaggy

A re-design of the ride is a total improbability at this point. Many "enthusiasts" can't see the basics when it comes to the Amusement Industry. A park is no different than any retailer with a product to sell. Once that product's reliability, usefulness, marketability and reputation are compromised then you lose your target audience. Without a trusting audience, the product is no longer necessary and is viewed as a liability. In additon, there's other behind-the-scenes factors that affect a ride's fate. It may well be that the State and Park feel SOB is okay to re-open, however the insurer may no longer be willing to cover it because of the long list of troubles and lawsuits it's faced. SOB's poor reputation has sealed it's fate. At this point, I believe the only thing keeping it standing is the park's operational budget. As soon as they factor costs for it's removal into an annual budget, it will be demolished. Many of you simply don't recall Hercules. Shaggy

PKI ONLY wanted a lopping woodie... they did not seek out the world's tallest. Werner Stengel... the designer... is the one who pushed the height. He eventually convinced PPD&E based on the "World Record" aspect. It's worth noting that Werner Stengel never visited the park once the coaster was built... and has never ridden it. Quite telling if you ask me. I am sure someone else posted this, but local news channels are reporting that the park is now saying SOB is to remain closed indefinitely and likely for good. The official statement is that it's fate will be decided in the off season. Pay your respects folks. I suspect SOB will stand but not operate for another season whereupon it will then be demolished.... ALA The Bat. Shaggy

I know two people that were at KI during the filming of the episode. Oh, and did you know George Clooney attended KI one day during the filming just so he could meet the Brady Bunch? Shaggy

It should have been almost a hop, skip and a jump to the front of the park to get those plans to Mr. Brady. Of course, they never tell you the name of the park in the episode, they simply say an amusement park in Cincinnati. I guess that can give them some artistic license. Yes, but the log flume (Kenton Cove Keelboat Canal?) clearly says "Kings Island" on it, haha. I just noticed that. So it is indirectly stated in the episode that the park is Kings Island. Hey they had never been to the park before, give them a break. Maybe if they'd had a map it would have been different. The flume they rode was not KCKC... it was the Kings Mill Log Flume... which is still standing today. KCKC stood where the Canoe ride (Shawnee Landing) was in the episode. KCKC was built for the season following the filming of this episiode (1973.) The name shows up in a couple of background shots in addition to the flume scene... namely when they are entering the park you see a wide shot of the entrance. A Kings Island Inn Bus pulls up with the name clearly showing. I personally do not like the version aired on TV... there are numerous things that get cut. You should all see the episode on DVD which includes ALL footage. Pay close attention next time and you'll notice it was actually raining in some shots. It rained late in the week of filming. Someone mentioned their not filming within the HB area. It was a licensing issue. But if you look closely, you can see it. Namely, you can see the Enchanted Voyage in the background of at least one scene. Shaggy