Shaggy

Remember that Flight Deck (As Top Gun) originally had RED track paint. When repainted silver (Ugh, thank you Tim Fisher) the red was not removed, rather simply painted over. That underying corrosion or rust... is likely less rust and more old red paint. Shaggy

Perhaps "Oops this was a bad idea" needs to be realized. SoB has been modified numerous times with the hope that it could become the coaster it was supposed to be. To this date, none have worked. Never knew 1 modification, could become numerous modifications. Son of Beast has had 1 major modification since opening. That was the retracking, removal of loop, and new trains. What other modifications am I missing other than that one modification in 2006-2007 SOB was modified prior to it even opening. Originally, it had 3 trains. However when the coaster was built and began technical testing, the coaster's blocking system could not handle 3 trains without stacking mid-course. So it was modified to only run with two. SOB was closed abruptly and received a modification following the media event and then again following the first day it was opened to the general public. After the media event, the coaster was closed and the incline following the large drop had it's ledgers re-inforced and replaced. This delayed it's opening that night to season pass holders. Following the first day it was open to the public, the coaster was closed abruptly and remained closed until the incline was banked, decreasing the severity of the turn at the top. This was the site of the infamous "jolt" that only the earliest SOB riders felt. Originally, the incline went straight up evenly and there was a severe turn at the top. Because of the sharp turn, trains would fall to the right once gravity took over. That caused riders to be "jolted" to the right side of the train. When SOB first opened, it was not trimmed or braked at all. The fall from the (then) unused mid-course block break into the loop was the highlight of the ride. After the ride had been open for a week or so, rider's complaints prompted the use of the mid-course to slow the train. However, this served no purpose other than to slow the 2nd half of the ride... the tame part... the complaints were based on the roughness of the rosebowl PRIOR to the mid-course. About a month after opening, SOB was again modified. It had it's lift slowed, received a kicker tire at the top of the large drop, and trim brakes at the top of the 3rd hill. SOB's rosebowl was also completely re-tracked after season 1, and the banking at the bottom of the rosebowl was made more severe to aid in the shuffling and eliminate the horrid vibrations riders felt at the base of the helix.

It's a curious comment. He may be a placeholder for a few years, but that's dependant upon whether the children will have an interest in the business. Will's daughter is the oldest. I haven't seen her in years, but I'd guess her age somewhere around the late high school/early college. His son's are probably middle school/early high school age. So there's AT LEAST a number of years before any of them would be able to steer the ship. And that's only if they have the proper business sense. Shaggy

Below are some links to various news clips/stories/videos from today's funeral for Will Koch, former President and Owner of Holiday World. In the first clip, some of you Paramount Park fans may recognize one of the interviewees. David Mandt, former head of Marketing for Paramount Parks, and now head of Marketing for IAAPA, was in attendance. It's still so horrifically sad to know of his loss, but so greatly heartwarming to see that the services were uplifting and joyful. After all, creating joy was what Will was all about. http://tristatehomepage.com/fulltext?nxd_id=168425 http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=12667852 http://tristatehomepage.com/fulltext?nxd_id=168015 Rest in peace Will... but make sure to build the ultimate coaster for me to ride when I get there. John

The "pre-show" mentioned above was actually simply a 25th anniversary video the park made for the ride. It played on the Q-tvs that were in the line at the time for a few years. The coaster never had a "pre-show" persay. In reference to the claw marks... yes, the trains were given "claw" marks for the 1999 20th Anniversary. I was on The Beast crew that season, and am the owner of one of the claw decals. Finally, the paw prints were painted on the existing pavers before. They wear off, typically, halfway through the season due to foot traffic and general weather wear. Shaggy

I've posted this before... but here it goes again... The Beast paw prints have come and gone throughout it's history. I expect they'll be back at sometime. However the "prints" are not unique to Beast. Adventure Express, Vortex, Flight Commander, Flight of Fear, Beastie and others have all had "prints" leading to their entrance at some point. Shaggy

LOL! I thought I was the only one that noticed his ability to correct the past! It seems as though the (former) Paramount Parks eventually purchased their Skycoasters as well. If memory serves me, the one at Ki was leased for sometime. However I seem to recall being told the park eventually bought it. Not positive. Shaggy

Interesting. Thanks! I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me as I drove by. LOL

I was driving by SFKK and it seems that the skycoaster has now been removed from (closed) SFKK. I am not sure if the park owned the attraction. It's quite possible an outside vendor owned it and leased the land for a cut of the profits (upcharge.) However from what I could tell passing by on the interstate, it looks to be gone. Shaggy

You would think this would be true. But it's actually not. The movies were a thriving business during the Great Depression. And while this summer has been a down one for the movies, they have done very well during the recession. No doubt travel budgets have been slashed though. I would imagine theme parks are less elastic than movies. Movies are, IMO, percieved as a much more "economical" form of entertainment. They also are heavily patronized by teens. Trust me when I say that most forms of entertainment are suffering from huge drops in attendance. Shaggy

While I understand attendance has continued to decline at KI since the mid-to-late 90's, maybe somebody should take a look and figure out why that's happening... For the entertainment industry, it's been a long economic downturn, not simply a result of the recession the US has felt in the last 4 years. Theatre, tourist destinations etc have all been hit hard and have seen a long, drawn out dip in attendance beginning around 7-8 years ago. When finances become tight, the first expenditure people slash is entertainment budget. So the ones that feel it first, hardest and longest are entertainment venues. However, many parks are sucessfully instituting marketing initiatives based on "staycations." They are concentrating on drawing from locals, rather than out-of-state travelers. That's the current hot draw. I'm not sure how KI is marketing to Cincy locals. Shaggy

Who the heck are you thanking? If you meant me, I was DISAGREEING with you.

I could not disagree with you more. Other than a brief time period of ownership in the late 1980's, Kings Island has always been a great park. Quite frankly, I've seen first person the hard work and dedication it takes to operate KI. There's an immense amount of work required to keep KI functional, let alone a place that many first time visitors still become enchanted with. To say it's being destroyed, IMO, is a narrow minded slap to those that are currently working hard to keep it one of the best regional theme parks in the world. My hat is off to them, and I thank all the folks that have dedicated their time to KI to making my visits memorable and enjoyable. Shaggy

It's based on attendance growth. Wonderland continues to see attendance growth, while KI and CP have seen drops in attendance. Wonderland is the gem out of the bunch, at this point. Kinzel has even said so on the quarterly calls. Another park sneaking up in the ranks is Carowinds. I wouldn't turn my nose up at KD either. Nothing special? I bet those that have grown up with it, as you have KI, would disagree. For all intents and purposes, KD's overall ride selection is better than KI's at this point. (My opinion, of course.) But as far as KD's history, well it's only 2 years younger than KI (or 3... depending upon whether you count the "soft" opening in 1974.) Shaggy

FYI, for those contemplating the "30 second ride" on Top Thrill Dragster... It actually takes 17 seconds from launch until you cross the "finish line" marker. So that's roughly a cost of $1.47 million per second. Shaggy

Here's a link to a previous discussion about the Beetle. In it, I detailed the history as I know it. I am too lazy to re-itterate it, so I'll just post the link ;-) http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1785#entry20526

It was moved when the park added Lion Country Safari/Wild Animal Habitat in 1974. It was relocated so that an entrance path to the new area could be built. Also, the Bavarian Beetle's "theming" didn't appear until after a few seasons after the park opened. It eventually recived the "snow covered mountains" and "snow climbers." Shaggy

Myrtle Beach Pavilion - not exactly sure how long it lasted there. Here's a pic: BTW... it's not documented very well, however a person was decapitated on KD's back in the early 1980s. They stood up on the ride and whamo! The irony is, it was removed a few years later for Shockwave... which has a tragedy in it's history as well. Back to KI's Galaxi (The Bavarian Beetle)... Here's a few pics that *sorta* show the coaster when it was at KI... and demonstrate it's location:

The main picture used in that link (see below) is actually not the Bavarian Beetle at KI. It's the former "Galaxie" coaster that was at KD until Shockwave was built. Both parks had a Galaxy style coaster. KI's was scrapped... while KD's was sold to A Myrtle Beach park and operated there until around 5 years ago.

This is so terribly heartbreaking to hear. Will always impressed me as a very gifted man with a sense of faith, family, and fun. I greatly admire him for that. My prayers are with his mother, as the loss of a child is devistating. My prayers are with his wife, who no doubt has lost a soulmate. My prayers are with his children, for the loss of their father. My prayers are with the Holiday World Family, as they struggle through this time. God bless them all, and God bless Will.

FYI... The link to the aerial view posted above is actually post removal of the 1st corkscrew. Here's a great pov. It's Drachen Fire testing in 1992, in it's original form: http://www.themeparkreview.com/coastertube/play.php?vid=DrachenFirePOV Here's also a great piece that once aired on PBS. It actually shows the construction of Drachen Fire: BTW, Drachen Fire was indeed a very, very beautiful coaster. But virtually every Busch Park coaster is beautifully placed/themed/landscaped. One piece of trvia many don't realize is that prior to DF being built, the village that Big Bad Wolf travelled through was just a series of "fronts." Meaning only facades of buildings were built since only those guests riding BBW saw them. However in typical Busch fashion, they went the extra mile when building Drachen Fire and actually re-built/completed the rear of the building facades on BBW so guests riding DF would not see incomplete theming. Shaggy

Interpreter is correct... Steel Phantom was FAR worse that DF.... FAR worse. The coaster was located way off the Octoberfest Midway. It sat in a plot of land located behind BBW, and to the far left of the Festhaus. Actually, until they attempted to make it more accessible, you initially had to head towards the Black Forest Catering/Picnic Pavillion to get to it. That utterly confused guests who could see it in the distance, but couldn't understand how to get to it. The station's still there, I believe, and the land sits vacant. http://www.themeparkbrochures.net/maps/1997/bgw1997.html I expect that to change fairly soon, however... Shaggy

I rode Drachen Fire many, many times. The first half of the ride was actually enjoyable IMO. Once you got into the 2nd leg of the ride is when it became rough. It was indeed a headbanger. Was it the worst? Not in my opinion. The removal of the inversion in the latter years was a joke, as that was not the cause of the roughness. The quick, unnatural transitions from element to element surprised riders and thus they got beat around. Overall, it was a very intense looper with more headbanging than typical Arrows. But it wasn't nearly as violent as some claim. You have to recall that at the time BGW only had 3 large coasters. And the two that preceeded it were very, very re-ridable. BGW had to have a coaster that folks wanted to ride over, and over.... Drachen Fire didn't turn out that way. I was around 19 when it opened and had a hard time riding it numerous times in a row. If it were still around today, I doubt I'd be able to ride it enjoyably. That's very telling as the success of rides and attractions at BGW rely heavily on their mass appeal to older adults. Basically, it's demise was a combination of things: - The patrons of BGW were not enchanted with the attraction and never found a fan base - It quickly became unmarketable - The placement of the coaster was awful - It was rough, and non re-ridable - The numerous inversions immediately limited it's guest appeal It was nearly always a walk-on ride. The last time I was at BGW when DF was still operating, Big Bad Wolf had an hour wait, and DF was running 3/4 empty trains.

Thank you for this. I was going to head in this direction in my last post, but couldn't come up with a way to word it without sounding negative, so I deleted it. Traditional flats installed in a park like KI would be a capacity nightmare, but if there were several (or just a couple) put in at the same time, that would help alleviate that problem. Much like what they did in 1986 by installing Zephyr and Skylab at the same time. Ummm.... Zephyr's still there... I always get my "Z" rides mixed up... forgive me, typo it was... Zodiac was meant :-)

There was a trend a number of years ago where various parks begin to re-install some of the long-lost flat ride favorites. Several of the Six Flags parks installed flat ride packages, and most notably Hersheypark installed Midway USA which brought back many, MANY of the old favs. I had hoped, no, prayed, KI would do so too. But then... there is always the future... ;-) The argument with flat rides in a high volume park is always capacity. KI could never get away with installing, say, only a ferris wheel. However a package of rides is quite suitable. Just two or three years ago, I had my fingers crossed that KI would get the flats from Geauga Lake. Instead, KD got a few of them, while others bit the dust. I was bummed over that one. In the meantime, KD is far superior to KI in the flat ride dept. Wonderland, though, is chock full of them... and they keep them in amazing operating condition. Shaggy