Shaggy

Do you honestly think that Michigan's Adventure can support a coaster as complex as X-Flight? I cannot see this at all. Michigan's Adventure does not have an abundance of steel coasters, especially ones as technically complex as X-Flight. KI on the other hand, has a staff that is very well versed, and very well trained on highly complex and computer driven coasters. Heck a few of them even helped oversee the installs of Stealth (and then later... Borg.) IMO installing X-Flight at MA would be on par with installing it at a park such as Knoebles, or Holiday World. It's leaving GL because it was too much for too little of a park. Placing it at MA woudl create the same issue all over again IMO. Now, I may eat crow on this... but my money is KI. Shaggy

Captain Nemo said: "I love all of these tiny clues. As you can see it seems we are going into a Cedar Fair way of hinting new rides.' Well, that's not a new "Cedar Fair" touch. KI has "hinted" at new attractions for ages. Are we forgetting the likes of: "Dropping in Next Season" (Drop Zone) "Getting ready for a New Adventure" (Wild Thornberries) "Discover New Thrills at PKI" (Tomb Raider) and "Pardon us as we stir up dust." (Delirium) just to name a few ;-) It's pretty obvious that X-Flight is headed to KI. It will be a good fit. And they'll get it open in 2007. We need only look at the turnaround time it took for Borg to be installed at PCow. Ground prep is the hard part... well that and the electrical portion. They had Stealth moved across country, painted installed and opened in 6 months time. My guess would be that the park's target is to open the coaster in time for full season hours. KI has never really been "on time" with past installs either. This will be no different. I do think that they probably have a goal of opening the ride also in time for the ACE Coaster Con. That way they will no doubt use it to spur media attention. (i.e. "Hundreds of members of the American Coaster Enthusiasts converged on King's Island today to try out their latest scream machine. Details at 11") Shaggy

Sonny cannot run "off the shelf" trains. Stadard wooden coaster trains... no matter M Flyers or PTCs, would have to be custom built. The reason is, the gage for SOB's trains is wider than typical wooden coasters. I would suspect, that if they have yet to contract new trains from a manufacturer, then SOB will not open with the park in the spring. The loop removal is nothing but a side effect of having to change trains. The trains (along with the overly intense rose-bowl) have always been the main issue with the coaster. From a ride quality and enjoyment standpoint, the wisest thing would be removal of the rosebowl and replacement with an out and back jaunt. But this step is just another "fix" to the ride, that will not produce a more enjoyable experience at all. SOB has, as predicted, suffered the same exact fate as it's predecessor... The Rattler... at Fiesta Texas. It was built prior to SOB (by the same company) and suffered the same exact fate. The Rattler still exists, but is one of the least noted and least enjoyed wooden coasters today. SOB will follow suit. Well, correction... it will live on in legend. SOB will go down in history as yet another "Bat." Which people will be talking about 30 years from now. Mark my words... the tide will turn and people will begin to recall "fondly" their rides on SOB "back in the day." Shaggy

Chose not to mention it. I had learned that from a former PP exec after Delirium was installed. I don't think the "Core" proposal never made it past the drawing board. Shaggy

"The Core" was almost used as the ride name of another attraction already at PKI. Originally Delirium was to be called "The Core" and was supposed to have a themed volcano surrounding the load station. No lie. The theming was dropped due to, you guessed it, budget cuts. Shaggy

Cedar Fair already communicated that they were going to go ahead with the current Paramount plans after the sale, and he also communicated that it would not be a major expenditure. Not exactly. PKD's Flight of Fear was slated to be relocated to Carowinds. That was nixed and the coaster has now been re-opened. Shaggy

"we're geting the adams family coaster" LOL, if only! Wanna know the honest to goodness truth? Dollywood is getting the Addams Family Coaster. Mystery Mine is exactly what the Addams Family attraction was going to be. No kidding. When Paramount nixed the idea for IJST, the ride was proposed to Dollywood execs by Anthony Esparza, the guy who designed it. And they bought it. So when you ride it at DW next year, click your fingers while you ride and you'll get the same effect. As far as a new attraction... I am not counting on it. General rumor is that 2007 may be the first season in KI history that they have not added a new attraction of any sort. We may see the Paramount logo and ride names stay the same through next season (the sale allows for CF to use the Paramount branding through the 2007 season if they so choose.) But I expect we'll see all Nick licensing start to spread into CF parks. I highly doubt that the former Paramount Parks will see the Peanuts gang. Bottom line, Nick will stay... but Paramount will eventually go bye-bye. Shaggy

I was there Monday, which was the very first time that the park played the National Anthem at opening. (Maureen verified at lunch.) It is played right at 10am, and when finished the ropes are dropped on International Street. This is one of the Cedar Fair implementations... per Dick Kinzel himself. It's a Cedar Point tradition. Shaggy

You are are putting an awful lot of faith in CF. Fact is, CF *knows* how to operate parks... they've been doing it for quite a while... however from an install standpoint, they often make choices that are not at all true to the parks original esthetic. If you are looking at the CF buyout from a ride standpoint, I think we'll see good things to come. The reopening of FOF and the likely reopening of SOB (like it or not) are good indications of their intent to operate rides at the parks well. I also can't help but note that Dick Kinzel likely obtained extra capitol when buying the Paramount parks for initial new attraction investments. From a general park standpoint, I think we'll see some dissapointing changes as well as the good ones. I think the loss of Winterfest is a prime example of this. Irregardless of last year's turnout, it's obvious that CF just doesn't want to deal with it... so they dropped it. One has to wonder how many other things they will not want to deal with, and will drop as well. But more importantly, CF's business practices are really ancient, and steeped in tradition. They harken back to the 1970's and 1980s. From a marketing and promotional standpoint, CF cannot even begin to hold a candle to the former Paramount folks. They excelled at it, and they had the name and money to back it up. Out of that came years of steady and increased attendance at Paramount Parks, at which time CF parks saw decreases. CF traditionally pays less in employee wages and salaries than other major park chains. They get away with this by implementing on-property housing initiatives as well as pursuing foreign exchange students who were willing to work for lesser wages than locals. They also rely on a very small staff housed in Sandusky to operate all the parks that they own across the country, rather than a direct hands on approach to local markets. At the tail end of the Linder reign, the Kings Parks were in near financial devistation. "Paramount" who has always been involved with KI since it's incarnation, stepped in and bought out the lion's share in order to salvage their investment. Costly installs year after year at the Kings parks prior to "Paramount" had hindered their ability to turn a good profit. For those that like to blast the "Paramount Folks," I challenge them to name the exact people they think were so awful, and did such terrible things. Although I certainly do not agree with some of the choices that were made at the parks over the years, I do credit them with stepping in and maintaining the parks in a positive way for 15 years. People like Al Weber, Tim Fisher, David Mandt, Bob White, Linda Jensen etc were extremely dedicated and devoted to the overall experience and focus on families. They recognized that not only are kids a key to financial success, but they are also the future of the park. CF, IMO, spends little to no time focusing specifically on children, or the family experience.. hence their decline. I am anxious to see what CF does, and I hope there will be good things to come. But I am sad to see the loss of so many of my friends that worked very hard at the parks for many years. I know everyone of them worked as hard as they could to make Paramount Parks a success, and a great place to go. So to hear uninformed statements against "Paramount" is really ridiculous to me. It says that those pointing their fingers do not realize many of the people that oversaw the parks during the Paramount days were actually long time employees. For example, Al Weber started at KI when it opened... I think he operated the Bavarian Beetle. David Mandt started 25 years ago at Carowinds parking cars. Obviously, I feel insulted for them by the constant barrage of complaints about "Paramount" people that were sooo terrible. Especially when I know that is a generalization that has nothing to do with the good job the leaders in Paramount's parks division did. The loss of some of the key players is, IMO, a huge mistake that CF is making. Shaggy

Quoting Interpreter: Oh, you mean wood? Yep, that would be in Germany. Also an Intamin. I am a little curious about this response. I am not clear if you believe the largest wooden coaster to be located in Germany or not. If you mean Colossus at Heide Park, well... it CLAIMS to be the largest, but it is in fact, not. SOB is indeed the tallest and fastest wooden coaster in existence. It's lift tops out at 218, beating Colossus by around 22 feet. Here's a link to Colossus' specs. http://www.rcdb.com/id988.htm Even if Colossus were to stand taller than SOB, there would still be the great debate as to the sincerity of it being an actual "wooden" coaster. As with El Toro at SFGADV, it uses the unique Intamin laminated steel track. At this point, I guess you could say that Colossus is the largest operating wooden coaster in existance. That is until SOB reopens... which I believe it likely will. Shaggy

Misters are nice, but also wreak havok on midways and parks. They leave pools of water, and rust things around them. PKD had several of them for years... but last time I visited, had removed them. Shaggy

"<G> I won't tell ya which portions were mine but I don't expect credit. <G> " Suit yourself, but I do. After all, the world DOES revolve around me ;-) Shaggy

"The new owner of Kings Island, Sandusky-based Cedar Fair, looked at the numbers and decided to concentrate on other park attractions, Kaiser said." "Other park attractions?" They must be thinking 2008... don't hold your breath folks... Shaggy

Ummmmm.... the information in the Brady Bunch section was literally copied word for word from a post I made. Here's a link to the thread: http://www.pkicentral.com/forums/index.php...opic=6449&st=30 Thanks for the credit guys. Boo! Hiss! Bad form! :-( Shaggy

It's gone... it's not coming back... move on. Shaggy

Early-to-mid season 2001. Tip offs are: Nick Central is present. KCKC land is cleared for TRTR Vortex is half painted. Ads on main entrance show the SOB logo as well as the (then) new Nick Central. Shaggy

Think about the chances of this though. Loops are oblong, or egg shaped. For a train to become perfectly balanced in one would be quite a feat. Now trains have gotten stuck upside down on coasters before, but that has been due to a mechanical failure that lodged the train into place... i.e. broken axles. Even from a stopped block brake position, SOB can still manuever the loop. It was designed to do so. Shaggy

"Did any North American parks besides KECO ever install a Togo standup?" Yes, as someone mentioned earlier, Kings Dominion has Shockwave and Canada's Wonderland has Skyrider.. both Togo standups installed following King's Island's installation of KC. Skyrider is an exact clone, while Shockwave has an altered 2nd half. Both of those are still operating at those parks. The supply of parts for King Cobra was not the reason for it's demise. Actually, Premier Rides is the North American supplier for Togo rides and attraction parts. The coaster was removed because the cost of operating and maintaining it outweighed the ride's marketablity. In simple terms.... the parts were available, but were too costly for continued investment. Also, the park refers to the ground that aging rides exist on as "prime real estate." Meaning the land is deemed more valuable as a potential future attraction site, than it is as home to an aged one. KC was due to bite the dust when Action Zone was built. However it was slavaged at the last minute. It's final demise came after several seasons of fate debate. People simply cannot fathom that rides age, and deteriorate over time. The are nothing more than machines, no different than a car. When you own a 1984 Dodge for 15 years and run it daily... no matter how much you "baby" it... the engine and body is obviously going to wear out over time. When you discover the car is costing you more to keep and operate than a brand new shiny make/model would... then you chuck it. KC was no different than a 1984 Dodge. Shaggy

Unless they overhaul Octoberfest and International Street altogehter, adding more Bavarian theming is a waste of energy. It used to make sense. The whole reason for the Festhaus being added was the need for a large indoor eating hall. Octoberfest (which played off of Cincy German roots) was the perfect place for the hall. KI went on the cheap in building it... it's essentially a large corrogated metal warehouse on a concrete slab... and was hurried to be readied for the first Winterfest. However, with the dissapearance of virtually all Octoberfest theming (completely lost on today's guest) not to mention all of the International theming on International Street, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Heck, even "Viking Fury" doesn't make sense being located in Octoberfest. Am I crazy or were Vikings Norwegian and not German? Here's a fun little but of trivia about the Festhaus. The front entrance/clock is a wooden facade on the front of the metal building. There's about a 6 foot gap in-between the two. You access the clock mechanics and in-between storage areas by going up a hidden staircase to the right as you enter the Festhaus. Once up there, you can look down below and still see tons of empty vintage pop and beer cans thrown to the floor by workers when constructing it. Shaggy

Man, where to start?! I could type up a really long list of things I'd personally change... but why waste the time? The A#1 thing that I would alter immediately is all the ridiculous commercialization that has raped that park over the years. All of the cross promotion is vial. The park is supposed to be a place to get away from all of that. Every single one of the in-park ads and movie tie-ins would get chucked no matter how much the sponsor gives to the park. Heck, the park spent countless $ just a year or so ago to put in those awful scrolling billboards throughout the park. I live by the Walt Disney park ideal. I mean, Walt Disney would have a heart attack at seeing a billboard in Fantasyland advertising a new John Deere Tractor... let alone a restaraunt in Tomorrowland. IMO, get ride of 90% of that, and you have solved 90% of the bad perception that PKI can have. Not that PKI has a bad reputation... quite the opposite... I just think people are put off by the lack of escapism. Shaggy Side bar: I admit that I am an old sourpuss when it comes to this sort of thing in general. A few years back, I pretty much stopped wearing t-shirts etc that advertised things. Why? I am not paid to be a billboard, and don't like it that clothing is used to try and influence me as to where to spend my money. Think about it, why are we having to PAY to walk around advertising Old Navy across our chest?

Like many things, memory lends enchantment about The Racer's previous red, white and blue color scheme. The park switched to an all white motif for a good reason... the blue and red would fade so quickly and so badly that it used to look worse than it does now. Of course looking at old park pics, the coster looks great with that color scheme... well, that's because when the park photographed it, it was freshly painted! I dinstinctly recall the "patchwork" red and blue colors. Some boards were vibrant, some boards were blah... if they had to replace a colored board, it never matched the rest because the others were sun bleached. etc. etc. etc. FYI, pre-season, many of the ride sups and area managers actually do paint parts of the attractions. Many handrails, queue gates and yes, even the inside of The Racer tunnels have been, or are, painted by seasonal personnel. No matter how bad a ride looks, it doesn't make a lot of sense for the park to re-paint it mid-season. That spells downtime. Some rides require warmer weather to strip and paint... ala Vortex... but the park relies on off season maint for most of those jobs. Drop Zone has been in desperate need of a re-painting for years. However with a 6-7 figure price tag, the park must prioritize and rotate ride re-furbs. The CF olor influence should be quite unique at the Paramount Parks. How so? CF is NOTORIOUS for painting all things in bold primary Red, Blue, and Yellow color schemes. Have you seen Iron Dragon? Blech! Shaggy

Funny, in the time I worked there, we never closed a ride (let alone the park?!) for rain. I personally operated Beast in the midst of a hail storm once. And guests still rode... eeeouch! I would guess a HUGE downpour might have some effect, but I never witnessed it closing a coaster personally. Actually, the last time I "drove" Beast it was the final day of the 1999 season and it was feeezing cold and snowing. Well, back then it still had the skid breaks and the hydraulics would freeze. Maintenance would warm the hydraulics with heat cables (used for frozen water pipes in homes) and heat lamps. Even so, the hydraulics would still stick, and the skids would sometimes not engage. One of my last trains on Beast blew through the station and set up the block when the skids did not raise. The good news was that by then they were down to 2 train operation (they often cycle one train off prior to the close of the season for early off season maintenance) so there was no danger of trains colliding. We did close for lightning and tornados ;-) And one of the things I found most odd was that, in case of a Tornado, ride ops were instructed to lock-out the ride and head to the nearest shelter (In Beast's case it was under the turntable of KCKC) we were instructed to warn guests to take shelter, but essentially they were on their own! Shaggy

Lightning shuts the rides down, not rain. Shaggy

The mural and window are original to the Festhaus. They were just covered over by facades and screens for many years. But I agree, the Festhaus is much better looking when adhering to it's original look. Shaggy

And you know what? During that blackout was the best time I ever had with guests. Many remained in station and so we made a game of it. We did really silly stuff like throw around KI trivia, even sang old KI commerical jingles! The guests were extremely fun and smart. LOL It took a looooooong time for the rides to get evacuated and up and running again. All had to be evacuated, and it was late on a Sunday evening... so they only had the thin/late shift Supervisor crews on. I recall that there was one guest that took like 30 minutes to come down the lift of Vortex. Female, I think, and the only way she'd come down was to sit on the stairs and drop her butt down one step at a time. Shaggy