Shaggy

"I really enjoyed seeing the park from 1973. Very little film exists of the park from the early 70's, at least that I know of." It was filmed in 1972. Brady Bunch filmed there in 1973. Shaggy

Actually IJST is a great example. It's obvious to me that the attention was not spent on the actual coaster itself. Heck, it's simply a small mine-train type ride with a launch. However look at the $ they sunk into making it chock full of "technology." On board sound... that doesn't work. Scenic effects... that you pass by too rapidly. Mid-ride show... that is a shell of it's original intention. Headlights on trains... that do not work. I like IJST.... I think it's "cute." And it's a great family ride. However so much was sacrificed along the course in order to make it a "marvel" that the basic idea of a simply fun and satisfying ride kind of took back seat. On the flip side, if you take a look at Delirium (although not a coaster) the ride was simply purchased and installed. It has very few bells and whistles (other than that pesky hydraulic floor) and simply was built to be a fun ride. It has succeeded immensely on multiple levels... most importantly guests LOVE it. It was sort of a fluke install, and is IMO, the best new product that the park has installed in 20 years. Shaggy

"I wonder why paramount shot the designs down? " Several reasons.... Al Webber (CEO of Paramount Parks division) is of the "It's gotta have a gimmick" school. For some reason he thinks that coaster installs have to be technical marvels, or state of the art attractions. They dont. They just have to be fun. Paramount Parks recognize that increased revenue resides in families, not thrill seekers. When coasters are installed, you cut your drawing audience nearly in half. Money. Buying a B&M is literally like purchasing a Rolls Royce in the coaster world. They are the creme of the crop. And Paramount Parks tends to be stingy at times. They would rather rely on a cheaper manufacturer for the ride unit, so they can spend monies on theming elements that seemingly do nothing for the rides themselves, or budget the money for improvements elsewhere in the park. Shaggy

Vortex is meticulously maintained, and still attracts "oohs and aaaaahs" from guests. It also still attracts many riders. So it still has plenty of life left in it. Take a look at Loch Ness Monster at BGW.... it's ben operating nearly 30 years and is still going strong. Arrow multiloopers are notoriously rough... and Vortex can be included in that list. They often get labelled as headbangers because of the horsecollars that box one's head as you are shuffled through the journey. However, it's obvious that the cause of the roughness felt on Arrow loopers is three fold: First, the trains wheels reside on the inside of the track. This causes a shuffling of the cars chassis between the two abrupt stopping points. On coasters (such as B&M's) where the wheels reside on the outside of the track, there is significantly less shuffling of the chassis. Second, there is often not enough transition time between elements. In order to squeeze in as many loops and inversions as possible, Ron Toomer and fellow Arrow Designers used quick and terribly abrupt transitions in between inversions/elements. On Vortex, the worst transition is no doubt the drop into the corkscrews. These quick pace/directional trasitions give the body significantly less time to brace/prepare/adjust. Third, Arrows trains situate the passengers lower in the car in order to try and place the mid point of the body as close to the center axis as possible. In theory, this seems right, but it has a flawed effect. It brings the head/neck closer to the axis point where the side to side motion is much more abrupt and jerky. You see, on coasters where the passengers ride well above or below the track, there seems to be much less stress on the neck/head. That's because it places the mid/upper torso region in the most jarring positions. The restraints are tighter in those areas, thus there is less movement of the rider within the seat. I think of it like a metronome. You know.... those tick-tock machines used by pianists to keep time? If you think of your body as that "hand" on the metronome, then you'll see that the closer your head is to the pivot point, then the more jarring it can be. However the farthur away the head is brought from the pivot point, the more sweeping and less voilent the motion becomes. It becomes more of a side to side sway while the upper body takes the brunt of the force. Add in horsecollars, which either hit the crown, ears, chin, neck or shoulders of the riders (depending upon their upper body length) and you can end up with a terribly uncomfortable boxing match of a ride. I like Vortex, and think it has the best air time on any Arrow looper. However I ride it very infrequently... especially now that I am older and my body cannot take loop after loop like it once could. But IMO Vortex is by far smoother than many of the other Arrow loopers that exist. For those that have ridden the likes of the former Steel Phantom at Kennywood, or Shockwave at SFGAM, or Anaconda at PKD, etc, you know what I am talking about. On the flip side, Dollywood's Tenessee Tornado is likely the smoothest Arrow multilooper ever built. Most likely due to the overly sized elements and better transition time between them. Shaggy

LOL... "no compete?" B&M is a major coaster manufacturer that wants to sell as much of their product as possible. Should PKI want a B&M, then B&M would sell them one. I doubt any coaster manufacturer would be silly enough to restrict themselves regionally as to being able to sell. Now if a manufacturer were working in cahoots with a park to produce a prototype coaster or ride, then I would expect that they would give the park exclusive rights to that design... at least for a year or so. But in today's frugle world of Amusements, any manufacturer would be silly to restrict themselves from selling their product to whomever desired it. Re: B&M and PKI.... it's no big secret that Bolliger and Mabillard have been at PKI numerous times in years past proposing coaster designs. The most significant proposal that came about 5 years ago. It was a proposed hyper coaster in the rear of the park that was slated to occupy the land from the turnaround of The Racer back through the heavy terrain lands toward the Little Miami River. However Paramount Parks declined the design. This was just one of several proposals that Paramount Parks turned down for PKI. Because of numerous declines, it's my understanding that B&M has ceased proposing coasters to the Paramount chain. With the understanding that only serious intent to install would attract their attention in the future. Shaggy

"Probably just some minor equipment upgrades to reopen the restaurant." Not only minor kitchen upgrades would be required. Major kitchen updates would be required. There are specific spacial problems that do not meet health/safety codes. In addition, as far as I know there's no public elevator. Thus it's not handicapped accessible. That's a major no-no in today's world. Shaggy

The King's Island Trabant "Wheel of Fortune" was indeed sold to Fantasy Farm. When Fantasy Farm closed, the rides were auctioned. The Trabant was purchased at that auction and operates still today at Delgrossos park. It still retains all of it's original "Wheel of Fortune" roulette whell theming to this day. Shaggy

Some of the designers from PPD&E are still working with Paramount Parks, but instead of having a department on staff, they are now simply sub-contracted. For instance, one of the lead designers, Dave Cobb - Creative Director for Paramount Parks (Largely responsible for Italian Job, the new Nick Central Expansion etc), is still essentially employed by Paramount Parks. But instead of being "on staff" he is now considered an outside contracted talent. They utilize the designers that they have on retainer, then allow outside vendors/manufacturers to bid on producing the actual product. Shaggy

With Jeff just having resigned, I doubt that a decision as to someone filling his position has been made. However have no fear! The lovely Maureen will still be there! Shaggy

It is bittersweet that I report the news that Jeffrey Siebert has resigned his postion of Marketing and Communications Manager at Paramount's Kings Island. Jeff has been with PKI since 2000, and has been an absolute staple at PKI. Jeff's passion for PKI as well as his attention to overall detail has help guide the park into a much improved, guest focused experience. He will no doubt be missed by his colleagues, coworkers and friends. Jeff has been one of the most effective supporters of Coaster Enthusiasts and fans of the park. He truly is a great fellow that has left his amazing touch upon those of us lucky enough to share in various festivities, media events and enthusiast events at PKI. I cannot think of someone that is more generous with their time and efforts than he. I'll forever think of his smiling face whenever I enter PKI. To me, Jeff is PKI. And the friendship that I have with he and his family is probably the greatest reason that PKI continues to mean so much to me. But don't fret! All is not lost! The good news is that Jeff will be assuming a position with Schlitterbahn Parks based in Galveston, TX. Jeff will begin work with the the world's most prominent waterpark company on Dec 7th. Jeff's final day at PKI will be Dec 2nd. His final hoorah, will be this week's Winterfest opening. I cannot think of a better way to send him on his new adventure. It will be a party to end all parties. On a side note, Jeff has been one of the most dear friends I could ask for. Aside from just being a tremendous buddy, I owe about 90% of my understanding and knowledge about PKI to him. I wish he and his family much luck in Texas. No worries buddy, I'll be visiting soon ;-) Shaggy

Brrrrrrr... a winter event at Wonderland? Shaggy

"I just hope the Kid area retheme is well done and not some tacky themeing I spen almost half my day in that area of the park and I HOPE they add in some shade and some benches that would be nice." I doubt you'll be dissapointed. Think Seuss Landing at IOA. The entire area will be segmented too... one corner is Dora, another is Jimmy Nuetron, another Spongebob... etc. etc. etc. The entire area is being gutted. Even existing light poles and benches are being replaced. It's a total overhaul that will no doubt be fun and beautiful, but also very family friendly as well. "Uh I just noticed Avatar is no longer listed on RCDB.com....I wonder why?! " Hmmmm... maybe RCDB folks are no longer considering it a coaster... after all, it is up for debate.... Shaggy

Ick.... the video is a true reminder of the days of short shorts and tube socks. My, how unfortunately well I recall them... LOL. BTW, worth noting is that "The Bat" only went about 35 MPH. By comparison, Top Gun goes over 50, Italian Job goes over 40. It surprises many to find out that it only rivaled Beastie in terms of speed. (Beastie clocks in at 35 m.p.h.) Actually a better comparison is Adventure Express... it runs around 35 m.p.h. too. Just as with AE, "The Bat" was big on lateral thrills and sharp turns. However a unique feature (that was great for coaster fans but ultimately led to the ride's demise) was the fact that the ride's could not be trimmed. (Meaning with brakes.) Pretty much everyone knows that the brake fins were located on the bottom of the train, which not only caused issues with stopping the train, but eliminated he ability of the park/Arrow to take some of the "Ooooooph" out of the voilent directional changes. (Violent to the train and track, not riders.) With the track overhead, and brake fins underneath, nothing could be done to control the speed oustide of stopping the lifts. The legend of "The Bat" actually far exceeds it's actual operation. Not only in the time it spent at the park, but in thrill as well. In the few years it was an actual operating attraction, it had a downtime of something horrible like 75%. It was indeed a fascinating coaster at the time, but if it existed today, it probably would be considered by most park goers as boring. Side note... "The Bat" is what sparked my personal fascination with Coasters and KI... I was fortunate enough to attend the park the year "The Bat" opened at age 9.... and yes, if you do the math... that makes me 33. Now, do the math again... ironically enough I am indeed the same age as KI. ;-) Shaggy

I think there is a bit of confusion between the two flumes that existed at KI... King's Mill Log Flume (Which opened at KI in 1972) still exists. It was re-furbished and transformed into "The Wild Thornberries River Adventure." It was originally designed by Arrow Development for Cincinnati's Coney Island, and I believe was installed there in 1968. It was then meticulously relocated to KI when CCI closed and KI opened. Later, it was SBNO for 2 seasons at the turn of the millenium while the park pondered what to do with it. With 30 years of operation under it's belt, the ride was wearing out. The park decided to keep it for not only nostalgia's sake, but also so that they could keep a flume operating in the park. (By then, the park was already in initial design/development/preperation for the install of Tomb Raider.) It was refurbished by O.D. Hopkins, re-themed and reopened as part of a Nick Expansion. Kenton's Cove Keelboat Canal is gone. It opened in 1973, and was one of 3 (I believe) Arrow Hydroflumes installed in the U.S. The others are located at Hersheypark and Cedar Point. Hershey's Coal Cracker was opened in 1973, the same year as KI's and still operates. Cedar Point's White Water Landing was opened in 1982. However, it was closed following this recent season to be removed for a future attraction.) Here's a link to it's demolition photos: http://www.pointbuzz.com/wwlremove.htm Hydroflumes are different from other typical Arrow Flumes in that they have a dueling drop that has 2 chutes to allow for a greater capacity. They also were designed to allow for larger final drops. KI's had a Drop of 45 feet, I believe, while Hershey's was 49' and CP's was 45'. These hydroflumes are also unique in that you first climb a lift, and most of the course of the ride is raised in the air. Most early flumes reside close to, in, or on the ground. These models also culminated a large drop with a camelback hump at the bottom to cause a weightlessness sensation. These Hydro Flumes also featured (I believe) the first turntable loading stations on a flume ride. Time was not kind to the rides and PKI's was the first to bite the dust. The rides simply have worn out and have seen their day. PKI's in particular became a low interest attraction with a very low ridership. It also was deemed necessary to either refurbish it or remove it for maintenance reasons. Tomb Raider took the place of the Kenton's Cove Keelboat Canal. The ride was scrapped.. with only the boats being salvaged. Thus it cannot be re-installed. Shaggy

And it's a slap to all the hard working folks at PKI, let alone other corporate parks, to insinuate that they do not take pride like the folks at Holiday World. I think you'll find that there are just as many, if not more, hard working dedicated people in the corporate world as there are in the Mom and Pop shops. My concern is not whether HW will do their best to take care of any issues they may have with a mega woodie. Of course they will. Rather my concern is that they will discover many more issues exist after it's running. Such was the case will all the other mega woodies. Shaggy

I am personally concerned for HW over Voyage. They will no doubt do the best possible job with the coaster. However, the past has proved that huge wooden coasters just do not wear well and often are uncomfortable with riders. This coaster is on par with SOB, Mean Streak, The Boss, Villain and Shivering Timbers. All of those coasters get labelled as "rough" and have not worn well over time. (Shivering Timbers seemed to start off well, but reviews within the past few seasons have not favored the ride.) Seems that the only mega-structure wooden coaster that has never felt the heat of the "It's too rough" bug is Colossus at Heide Park in Germany. It features the rarely used Intamin steel plug-n-play track that is covered with wood. I believe that the mega woodie currently being built for 2006 at SFGADV is using this technology as well. Shaggy

No, all food at Winterfest will be horrible. Kidding. I guess it depends on whether your taste buds like it or not. Go and give it a try. FOF will not be open. Winterfest does not encompass that area of the park, and all coasters will be winterized prior. Although enclosed, steel coasters do not operate properly in cooler weather/winter months. Shaggy

I've not heard that one before. Are you positive that it was KI? I ask because CP had EXACTLY the same situation with Mantis in 1990's. It was supposed to be called Banshee... with the name, logo and even merchandise all copyrighted and produced. The park actually used it to promote the ride, but then received complaints. Upon researching, the name and logo was changed to Mantis. Rare CP Banshee logos, press material and merchandise items are extremely hard to come by and are very sought after collector's items. Here's the actual timeline of the CP/Banshee change: • On September 8, Cedar Point announced plans for Banshee • On September 13, Due to bad public reaction to the connotation of the name, Cedar Point announced that their new stand-up roller coaster would not be called Banshee. • On November 17, Cedar Point announced their new stand-up roller coaster would be called Mantis. Incedentally, Holiday World had a ride called Banshee for years. It was located in the Halloween section of the park where the Halloswings currently reside. It was a chance Falling Star and HW often teased about it's name in flyers and ads for their former Stark Raven Mad events. Shaggy

It's definitely not cheap. But then, what is cheap these days? I will love Winterfest this year no doubt, however I am very much looking forward to 2006 when not only can you enjoy the event, but have the option of staying at the Great Wolf Lodge. Yet talk about expensive! GWL is by no means a cheap stay. BTW, has enyone seen all the clearing/construction of the lodge area? It's HUGE. Shaggy

Intamin huh? Screamscape is wrong. Shaggy

"and besides I thought the Chinese food was great. " Voban doesn't work well on semi-digested rice, however. ;-) Shaggy

Bingo... and Top Gun construction was already underway, thus Paramount countinued with it. Trivia.... I believe the original name of Top Gun was to be "Raven" ironically enough. Although rumor has it that they were considering using Thunder Road as well. Shaggy

I have to tell you that I am more excited about Winterfest returning than I have been about any other change at PKI in recent years. It's not a good time for coaster-buffs, but the older I get, the more I crave unusual and different experiences. I expect I'll enjoy Winterfest much more as a 33 year old man than I did as a teen or young adult. I'll savor the more memorable experiences such as the decorations and feel...things I paid little attention to long ago. BTW, it was my understanding that Winterfest was intentionally considered to be a 10-year event. Seems like someone in Park Management told me that back when I worked there years ago and questioned it. Non-the-less Winterfest petered out in it's final years. The last year they had it I attended and was greatly underwhelmed. I also remember the great discounted gate price they offered trying to drum up business. Seems like it was only like $5-$7... and even so the park was nearly empty. Holiday events such as this tend to suffer ebss and flows so it's no wonder it bit the dust. I guess we could now question FearFest. I did not attend this year, but I recall in it's first year the place was a mobbed with people. Last year I was amazed at how interest had wained. How well attended was it this season? Shaggy

LOL, I'd like to forget it. Wings is bad. It's surprising to me that Montgomery Inn allows the food to be served using their name. It is not nearly on par with the real Montgomery Inn. Plus, eating it cafeteria style just doesn't mesh. I stopped eating at Wings long ago due to dissatisfaction with the quality of the meal vs the ridiculous price you paid. The theming has little to do with the product. I couldn't care less what the inside of the Diner looked like, it's the food that makes it or breaks it. I have very high hopes for Winterfest. I have a feeling that the event will institute a new regard for the park's food offerings (not counting those by outside contractors such as Skyline/Chick-Fil-A etc.) Did you know that not only are the decor changes in the Festhaus the only significant change, but the kitchens have to be overhauled with new equipment necessary to cook the meals they have planned? Shaggy

Another error in history. Entertainment had always been a priority until Paramount took over. The funny thing was that everyone thought Entertainment was the safe area as "Entertainment" was Paramount's area. Please Point Out What rides disappeared? I politely disagree. Live shows had already cut live band/orchestras and most roving entertainers (clown band) were already gone. Hadn't the Puppet Tree even bitten the dust by then? Rides that disappeared in years prior to Paramount: Bayern Curve, Winnie's Cauldrons, Enchanted Voyage (although replaced) Wheel of Fortune, Tumble Bug, Cuddle Up, Sky Ride, Flying Carpet, Bavarian Beetle, Halley's Comet, Rotor, Zodiac, Flying Dutchman, Gulliver's Rub a Dub Tubs and more... Also not accurate. WAH had always been operated in close realtions with UC and the Cincinnati Zoo. Never an issue with animal populations there. Again I'll disagree since I base my facts on a 1992 article that ran in the Cincinnati Enquirer regarding the Habitat. I'll have to dig it up again... In it's final years I managed to ride and easily recall the lacking amount of animals as the park had already begun to distribute them elswhere away from the park. In and around 1998, I really thought that they were going to run the parks into the ground. It was a very bad, dark time for PKI. Such a shame to, coming off of banner years prior. I'm really not sure where the current operations team came from but it seems like they have some fresh ideas and are making the changes that are necessary. Let's just say that a lot of "old school" folks are no longer. I applaud the current management for recognizing what will make the parks a success and making sure the overall guest experience is given it's proper attention. BTW.... you mentioned the lack of themed costumes. I think we'll see them re-appear in time. Winterfest is a HUGE step back to that type of themeing. Just wait until you see the costumes for those working the event. Shaggy