Shaggy

LOL! Hysterical! It's really amusing when I think about it now, but at the time I would get terribly aggrivated. There were a few times on shift when I literally refused to go back to that backside position. In '98 it was still an extremely popular coaster, and the guests would bombard that thing. Of course, back then it had all it's bells and whistles... all the in-station speels, sound and light effects. Of course it had OTSR's with those disgusting ear pads that came off at the drop of a hat (and ride attendants were forbidden to re-velcro them back on, had to shut the seat off and call maintenance who would literally just stick it on.) I think I lost about 5 name tags from leaning over checking those restraints, and the cheapos in wardrobe would charge you like $3 every time for a new one. I had some interesting/hysterical situations there too. I was working FOF the night of the huge blackout at the park. Of course as a ride op you are not allowed to say what is going on with a ride when it shuts down. So there I stood on load side trying to dodge questions like "Are they stuck?" with the sounds of "Help, we're stuck!" being bellowed from the block-braked train in the drum. I also recall working unload once and all of the sudden "KABLAM! HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!" I thought the world was coming to an end. Of course it was just the hydraulic/air line to the brake caliper bursting. Scared the devil out of me. Shaggy P.S. Steve... I think I recall you. I transferred to Beast crew in '99, and worked there all season (just part time though, my working at PKI was just for kicks.) Carla and Beth were supervising, and you moved up to an Area Manager I think.

Wow! I am so glad to hear others had the horrible experience of working the backload of FOF and hated it as much as I. I was on OLFOF crew part-time in 98, and I have to tell you, it SUCKED. Having to deal with people's personal items. Monitoring kids that wandered out of the kiddie corral Monitoring guests that consistantly tried to "sneak " into the loading platform. Monitoring guests that were hell bent on watching the train lauch and would not remain behind the yellow line. Dealing with wheelchair folks that lined up in whords. Having to leave the backside station unattended to run wheelchairs to the unload side and having to literally swim upstream to get there. And having to "Up Bar" every train because some idiot would get his arm stuck in the air between the side of the train and the OSTR. Finally, those working FOF today have no idea how it felt to do all of this in a "military" uniform complete with Beret. I had a red line across my forhead for months because of that thing ;-) It was awful! Shaggy

Do this... stand in the hot sun for 3 hours. Then get into the passenger seat of a car. While the car is moving, stick your head out of the window for 14 seconds. Have the driver hit the breaks. There, you have just ridden Dragster. LOL... mostly kidding. But trust me, if you have to wait over an hour to ride it, you will likely be dissapointed. You may think that being up that high, or twisting down the side would be the huge thrill. It's no doubt thrilling, but the immense speed is what surprised me. Heck, you are up in the air and twisting for such a short period of time, that you hardly have time to savor it. Shaggy

"I don't think that anyone that had ridden the ride would say that it was a "snoozer." My point, in case you missed it, was not that those of us that recall/rode it when it operated thought it was boring. My point is, that if the ride were still in existance today, I don't feel that it would be considered that thrilling by today's mega standards. Much like anything in popular society, legends and memories of things actually supercede the reality of them. The reality is, The Bat was fun... but terribly problematic and ahead of it's time. Very few persons got to ride it. So, it's unusual history lends itself to become one that fascinates those that never witnessed it firsthand. Heck, it's what started my fascination with coasters (and KI) in general. But I also vividly recall how immensely frustrating it was to guests to hear the ride hyped by their "friends", or see ads on TV or in the newspapers, only to find it closed nearly each and every time you visited the park. I have always thought of it as the "Cabbage Patch Kid" of the amusement industry in the 1980s. HUH? What I mean is, if you recall that Cabbage Patch Doll craze of the 1980's, you'll remember that there was an extreme exclusivity that drove their popularity through the roof. Because of that exclusivity, people just had to have one... they were like gold, and everybody that was lucky enough to get their hands on them bragged, and made them out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. When in reality, the rarity of having one was the motivation for their favor. The difference is, CP Dolls stuck around and people got really tired and bored with them. The Bat did not stick around, so the fascination and intrigue never died. add to that urban legends about accidents and deaths and you get quite a legendary force. Within two years of The Bat's origin, Arrow had perfected the Suspended coaster to the point that they could build "Big Bad Wolf" at BGW which goes twice as fast. But let's cite that as the perfect example.... BBW was plagued with downtime in it's first two years of operation and it opened much later than expected.. much like The Bat. That coaster weathered it's rough times and remains today. However, it's hardly the popular coaster at BGW. Compared to Alpengeist, or Apollo's Chariot or the former Dragon Fire, it's considered remarkably tame. That's a complete contrast to how "fierce" it seemed when it first opened. IMO, The Bat, had it not ceased existance due to mechanical issues, would have suffered the same fate. And after watching KI/PKI's willy-nilly removal of rides in the past decade, would no doubt have been axed for something "bigger and better." Shaggy

Metal bars?

I wonder how many times, and how many different ways "it didn't work" can be expressed. ;-) The fascination with The Bat never ceases to amaze me. Was it a marvel when it was built? Absolutely. Heck, I remember standing on the brick wall watching it swing around to the station over and over again. But by today's standards, The Bat would be a snoozer... folks don't seem to recall that it only went about 35 m.p.h. In other words, it ran at about the speed of Beastie. (Now The Fairly Odd Coaster) Shaggy

Some complain of being uncomfortable from being suspended upside down for an extended amount of time. I have not found it to be rough, or uncomfortable. However, there is a slight difference in forces depending upon where you sit. The front row is a bit more forceful than the back row, and the middle is... well, in-between. Shaggy

Then a compromise must have been made since... the original was a large yellow and green plaque that simply said "Huss." I rode at both the media event and saw the plaque, and I rode the day following... and indeed the plaque had been removed by then. I didn't ride TR last year, or at least I can't recall riding it... and this year I've not visited. Shaggy

But I think it's important to clarify what you mean by "Falling off." It seems you are omitting two crucial words.... "while getting." Sure people stumble and fall and get hurt... while getting off (and onto) rides. However to somehow lump that into a subject line where someone feared falling from a ride while in motion is really ridiculous. Bottom line, at reputable parks such as PKI... rides are safe. Sure there have been occasional mis-haps or accidents. However, you are about 1 million times more safe riding any coaster or attraction IN the park than you are driving TO the park. Shaggy

I believe that Tomb Raider's on-ride photo was taken after the Shiva wall show, as the Top Spin rotated upward for the first inversion. The cameras were mounted on the ceiling above the Shiva wall. That way it caught the inital shocked reaction from guests not expecting to be flipped backwards. The eyes of the Shiva wall once illuminted with a light beam coming from each of them. The rotated right to left, with the beam shining across the gondola. However, within months of the attraction opening, the effect was broken and never repaired. It, IMO, was the best (and campiest) effect of the ride. Here's some fun trivia about Tomb Raider... All the ads for the ride feature "Angelina Jolie" as Laura Croft walking into the "eye" of the attraction. Her back is to the viewer. Why? Well, it's not Angelina... it's a double... Angelina would only do the ad for millions, so a model was used. However Angelina required that the park notate that it was not her. Thus there a caption below the logo for the ride saying that it is a body double. Meant to be a catch-phrase from the movie... the first time you hear Laura Croft speak in the attraction is when she says "You're making a big mistake!" And yes, it was meant to be ironic. Huss got sneaky and stuck a HUSS logo plaque on the ride unit just prior to the media event. The park wanted none of the media to reveal what the ride unit actually was... a Huss Giant Top Spin... but one reporter noticed the plaque and revealed it in her article. By the next day, the park had removed the plaque. It snowed on TR's media day. Tomb Raider is the first ride in KI's history to use pre-recorded screams. That's right... some of the screams/sqeals you hear are indeed fake. Shaggy

Boy, you guys sure do know how to reassure someone that is timid of going on a ride! Remind me to not ask anyone advice around here. Bottom line, Face/Off is an extremely safe ride. However because it is a little more than intimidating, I can definitely see your concern. The easiest way to overcome it, of course, is to ride. Tell the ride attendant that it is your first time and ask them to double check your harness. That should help ease your fear a bit. Also, as others have mentioned, there is a safety belt that acts as a back-up to the restraint itself. It connects the bottom of the OTSR to the seat bottom. My best advice, however, is to ride for the first time sitting in the train with your back to the cobra roll. In otherwords, when you board, sit in a seat that faces the operator's booth. I suggest this because you spend less time dangling forward and relying on the restraint. The time you spend on the spike facing downward is much shorter since it only occurs on the second spike and the momentum never really stops. If you sit so that you get pulled up the 1st spike backwards... then you have to agonize through the lift and gear switch while facing the pavement below. Face/Off is intense. But it's fun. And safe. Shaggy

Re: Star... I can't stand to hear her talk since she lost all that weight "through diet and excercise" (my ass!) When she does speak, she gets out of breath and has this weird wheeze to her voice. She does not strike me as healthy... physically or mentally. But back to the topic at hand... I feel for the family. The loss of a child is immeasurable, the loss of one at "the happiest place on earth" is unthinkable. Shaggy

While I agree that bad manners among today's youth is the norm rather than the exception, I have to tell you that I visited Kings Dominion the season that the Grizzly opened (What was that, '81? '82?) and in that line I saw my first "Gum Tree." It was a mighty oak tree literally covered in chewing gum. By the next season, the tree had died and was removed. So gum sticking, and vandalism is hardly a new problem at parks. BTW, once while at Six Flags Worlds of Adventure, there was a group of delinquents scraping gum, repainting rails, sanding woodwork etc on various rides. I asked and found out that the youngsters had been caught defacing the park property while in lines. They were charged and the park pressed charges. The result.... hard time in the sun wearing out their knuckles... and lots of heckling from guests. Shaggy

Shaggy, I believe you meant that there had been coaster installs since Cedar Fair took over Worlds of FUN, (not Worlds of Adventure...where there not only have been no such installs, but aren't likely to be) Thanks for the correction. I did mean World's of Fun... complete typo. In addition, they also have made 2 significant installs at Dorney as well. Shaggy

The capacity of Timberwolf is around 6,000. There's much more to booking a concert in a venue like Timberwolf than you can even imagine. First, any act that plays a park Ampitheatre is reliant upon a Promoter. Timberwolf events are largely promoted by Jam Productions out of Chicago. Many acts are limited to venues depending upon whom their promoter is. If an act is promoted or backed by, say, Live Nation (former Clear Channel) then the act will likely play a venue in the area that is owned by or has an existing contract with Live Nation. In Cincinnati alone, Live Nation owns and operates the Taft Theatre, Riverbend, Bogarts and has contracts with the Aronoff Center etc. Second, KI rely's on a promoter to book the acts, because they have no division within the company to deal with the acts themselves. On top of that, there are guarantees involved. So if an act were booked to play Timberwolf, and tanked, the park would have to cover the loss. If the event sells out, usually the guarantee includes a percentage rate based on sales. Meaning the park can only retain a percentage of ticket sales. It's not as lucrative from a ticket sales point as you may think. In the case of a Jimmy Buffet, certain acts will only play certain types (or sized) venues. Also, many of today's acts are extremely reliant upon visual effects and stage effects to spruce up their performances. When Britney Spears played Timberwolf years ago, the entire show had to be re-tooled just to fit the stage. Many performers, outside of general bands who just stand and play, don't want to play a venue that will not allow them to use their own stage, own sound equipt, etc. They feel that it sacrifices the quality of their show. Finally, KI's interest in concerts was always the revenue and attendance to the park that it generated. When the cost of bringing in an act outweighs their ability to profit from those that come to see the act, then it's not worth it. Shaggy

I actually think that CF may invest in a large coaster project at KI in forthcoming years. Honestly, I think we'll see a large coaster project at the park a lot sooner than if the park had not changed hands. I can say in all sincerity that a P Park Exec once shared with me (about 2 years ago) that the parks had absolutely no intention of pursuing a large coaster project in future seasons. CF has had a great track record of re-investing product into the well-established parks that they obtain. Both Knott's and World's of Adventure have seen large coaster additions in subsequent years. CF, specifically Dick Kinzel, is not shy about going ahead with large installs with the best and most reliable manufacturers. Al Webber was hell bent on only installing things he considered "technical marvels." Heck, at the ACE Conference a few years back, he gave a huge speech about how he wanted Paramount Parks to be known and the "innovators" in the industry. Problem was, they sacrificed the quality of the coaster installs by depending upon unreliable manufacturers that promised them the sun, moon and stars. Although I am not counting on a major install at KI extremely soon, I can't help but get my hopes up. It's about time that KI had a large coaster that was highly enjoyable, highly re-ridable, and highly fun. Something that guests will get off of, then run right around and ride again. Shaggy

That post doesn't make sense. Adventure Village was the last name that the area now known as Action Zone had before it was overhauled. It started as the Wild Animal Habitat, then became Wild Animal Safari, then became Adventure Village when the Monerail was removed. In 1999 it became Action Zone. Adventure Express was never a part of that area. It was installed in 1991 as a part of the Octoberfest section of the park. Shaggy

"We know that Paramount did not care much about the theming. That's just a matter of fact." I disagree. I think Paramount Parks DID care about theming, but in a very narrow minded way. I'll explain: If you look at various installs at PKI alone.... Top Gun, Action FX Theatre/Days of Thunder, Outer Limits: FOF, Tomb Raider, Scooby Doo and the HC, IJST, Nick Universe... those are very "themed" attractions by amusement park standards. Some of those attractions are more themed than others, but none-the less, themed. I recall when FOF opened in 1996, it was the most over-the-top attraction that a non-Disney non-Universal park had ever attempted. To this very day, it still remains an extremely theme-heavy attraction. Tomb Raider was an install where the ride unit cost less than half the budget of the entire attraction! The lion's share of dough was spent on licensing rights and ride theming/effects. Like it or not, Tomb Raider is indeed an over-the-top themed attraction. But Tomb Raider is probably THE prime example of the flaw. They literally did not think outside of the box when designing/installing that attraction. The chain's mentality since the Paramount takeover stretched little beyond a ride's individual theming and installation. Their ideas to theme rides were, and are, grandiose.. and IMO deserve applauding. Yet, they paid little to no attention to the theming area in which the ride was placed. But IMO to label it a "Paramount" problem isn't exactly correct. Even prior to the Paramount buyout, the parks had already started down the road of not adhering to themed areas. Need proof? Adventure Express was an attraction that caused a big "Huh?" in my book when it opened. I still cannot figure out how a Mayan-themed coaster found it's way into the Octoberfest area of the park. When Paramount came on board as proprietor, the movie-tie-in theming just caused the issue to start screaming out at guests. Suddenly there was a Navy Jet Movie themed coaster in the back of the Wild Animal Habitat. It's easy to think "What the heck is Paramount thinking?" Yet, it was slated to be there even prior to having a Paramount movie theme. Although Top Gun in the back-woods of a safari area makes little sense, neither does Thunder Road... one of the original names for the coaster. It was purchased for install prior to the Paramount buy-out. I personally don't think "Paramount" is the bad guy. Heck, a lot of the park's employees were carryovers from the pre-Paramount Days. It wasn't as if all of the sudden the parks had entirely new full-time staffs. The parks division is just that, a division. It wasn't the parent company making all the decisions, heck they just sunk a ton of money into capitol improvements. However I think the team that was enlisted by Parmount to spearhead the entire parks division through the 90's and 00's just lacked a strong directive and forsight when it came to esthetic design elements within the park. Their goal was to profit, to grow attendance, to generate revenue. When a large company steps in, the bottom line is the almighty dollar, and it's up to those that oversee the company's divisions to focus primarily on that. In turn you get big-wigs that are extremely smart when it comes to marketing and stratigizing, but often inconsistent and lacking when it comes to vision on a park design level. Once Paramount was branded in the parks, it opened lot's of new theming possibilities. However, those possibilities never were fully and appropriately realized IMO. They willy-nilly dropped a space/military base themed attraction in the middle of the Congo area at PKD. They plopped a Mayan/Egyptian/Asian themed attraction in the middle of Rivertown at PKI. They squeezed a Star Trek themed coaster smack dab in the middle of the Old Carolina Section of Carowinds. They put a USA military-themed coaster in the middle of the World's Fair section of Canada's Wonderland etc, etc, etc. My reaction to many of the Paramount attractions was "Wow, this ride has really great theming!" But that was often coupled with "But what does this theme have to do with this area of the park?" Of course within weeks, and in subsequent seasons, my reaction to the attractions were "Why in the heck don't they clean/maintain the theming properly?" This reaction came as a result of seeing attractions opened, but then essentially left to rot. The lack of upkeep and attention to detail read as: 1) The maintenance staff was ill-equipped to maintain them. or 2) The costs to upkeep the attractions were prohibitive or 3) The staff did not care. It may have been one, or two or all of these... or it may have been none of them. Who knows. But to the not-so-average guest, it was dissapointing. heck, to the average guest it was dissapointing too. I always sort of "got" the vision PPI had... however askewed. IMO the idea was to make it more of a "movie park." Sort of a poor man's Universal. With theming elements being unique to each attraction, rather than attractions being unique to surrounding theming. But it never gelled for me. I always felt that they fell short of the overall picture. Because I know and love the park so much, I was very tuned into how things "should be." I can easily spot when a light bulb is out, or when the spark effect dissapeared from an attraction. Because of the care and concern for my favorite park, I often got offended or frustrated to see so many things having flaws. But I also had to understand that there had to be issues existing of which I was not privvy, or could not understand. But bottom line, I think Paramount cared about ride theming. Why else would they have spent so much time and effort in the theming elements of so many rides? However, I do not think they cared about overall PARK theming and the feel of areas. The flow of the park was often disrupted simply to "stick in" a new attraction. Shaggy P.S. I will now go on record in saying that last season I became terribly disenchanted with PKI simply based on IJST. I personally felt sick on the stomach seeing how they took perhaps the most tranquil and beautiful area of the park (not to mention sacrificing 2 beloved and guest favorite rides) to install a ridiculously themed eyesore of an attraction whose theming elements either never worked, or were broken and not repaired. I certainly wish the park much luck and success, and above all I respect so many of the friends that I have and know at PKI. But literally the first time I saw IJST sitting there last season, a huge chunk of my passion for the park was killed. As silly as it sounds, I could have cried at what I saw. It was, IMO, the poorest decision that was ever made at KI.

I think that each park will continue to add attractions based on what the guests want, and that will generate revenue and attendance, rather than simply putting in "Mega" rides. Shaggy

Yes, Adventure Express used to have an On Ride Photo as well. The booth was located where the remote control car attraction now is. Shaggy

LOL, his post has me thinking I may need to sell off some of my KI items... that's a lot of dogh! Ha Ha! Shaggy

WOOFERBEARATL said: "OH WOW! I haven't been to Wonderland for about 8 or 9 years but there used to be NOTHING around the park. It was just beautiful." Well, PCW is still definitely beautiful on the inside... But it's not so beautiful on the outside anymore. Here's a link to a satellite photo I searched out through Google Earth showing Paramount's Canada's Wonderland... and all the urban sprawl surrounding it. FYI, this satellite image is a few years old, and more development has now occurred. ( I could tell it's a bit dated since there's no IJST or even Huss Jump2 in the photo.) http://hometown.aol.com/jhnktr/CoasterPics.html Shaggy

Sorry, I just noticed this post. I, like you, have collected KI park maps and brochures for years. Actually, it's the only "must have" park-related items I collect. My collection is virtually complete, and I own a park map and brochure from each season since KI's opening, as well as all of the Winterfest years. Actually, I even have the promotional brochures and maps that they offered at Cincinnati's Coney Island before KI opened. I have not looked at them in a year or so, they are safely tucked away at home. So to fully answer your questions, I'll have to do some digging. Answers that I do recall off of the top of my head are: #1. Yes, they have always given out maps since the park opened. At first, the maps came in booklets called "Fun Guides." These were little pocket-sized handbooks that had all of the park info as well as other handy things. For instance, there was a spot on the back for you to write down where you parked your car (i.e. Bamm Bamm Row 3.) This also leads one to believe that originally the park handed maps to guests as they entered the parking lot, which is a courtesy that has come and gone and come and gone, over the years. #2. They have changed size and proportions over the years. In the late 1970s, the park maps became more brochure-like. Then in the mid 1980's, the park went back to more of a "Fun Guide" styling although not as small as the originals. In the later Paramount years, park maps took on the brochure fold-out format and they have maintained that layout most recently. However, since 2000, the park has started issuing date-specific park maps. One for each month of the season, that way they could include references and times for attractions that were only there for specific time periods (like the Nick Parade, Titanic Exhibit, etc.) I'll have to check into the jumbo park maps for you. I have those too, but really there have not been as many as you think there would be after nearly 35 years of business. I know there was the original jumbo map, then it was altered when the Wild Animal Habitat was added, then again when Coney Mall was expanded. They sold a jumbo map when Screamin' Demon was built, then when Beast was built, then Bat. Next, there seemed to be a lull between maps. They sold one when Coney Mall was re-done, blah blah blah. The only jumbo park map sold in the Paramount Years TMK was the recent 30th anniversary one still offered at the park. Here's an interesting item of trivia. When Paramount took over, the jumbo park map ceased production because the park switched printers. I was told that originally the park had signed a long-term deal with a local printer to print the jumbo park maps. When PKI singed on with a new printer, the old park map deal still stood. So PKI refrained from business with the old supplier, and could not outsource it to a new printer. Also, the cost of printing the park maps was outweighing the profit they made from them. One thing I am most anxious to see with the CF takeover is a new park map potentially being sold at the park every year, and updated each season. CP annually produces an up-to-date jumbo park map and sells it for around $1.00. It's one of my favorite things about Cedar Point. Actually, most of the knowledge I have about ride locations, remodels, installs etc at KI through the years came not only from visiting, but also studying and collecting the parks maps and brochures through the years. There's lots of interesting things to be found just by looking at them. For instance, did you know that Hanna Barbera was originally supposed to be called "The Happy Kingdom?" Finally, I was terribly dissapointed when I recently obtained this year's promotional brochure for PKI. Instead of the fold-out detailed brochure the park has ALWAYS offered, this year it's literally a one-sheet, brochure sized card-stock piece with hardly anything but the park name and the calendar on it. It's a sad piece (obviously produced on the cheap to cut costs) compared to what the park has always previously offered at various tourist info centers. Shaggy

Yikes... HW seems jinxed on days when they host enthusiast events! Shaggy

No they do not allow snapping. Actually, I think their website even explicitly states that it is strictly forbidden. But it's all moot. Their Flying Skooters are really lacking in the snapability department to begin with. As far as Holiday World Being busy... well, depends upon the time of the day. Early mornings before the waterpark opens, the coasters have waits. After the waterpark closes, the coasters have waits. Im the middle of the day, the coasters see shorter lines. Shaggy