CoastersRZ

Right. But the outsourcing of jobs is nothing specific to just Blackstone. I`ve had issues with my anti-virus software before, and had to deal with a person from overseas that barely spoke English. Yes, it is frustrating that when you have issues you have to speak to someone that is not very fluent in English and makes pennies on the dollar to what people in America make doing the same thing. But that is how the global economy works now, however sad that is, it is a fact of life. And I was strictly referring to the track record that Blackstone has with their entertainment and amusement park holdings. As far as I can tell, they have a pretty much hands off approach and allow companies like Sea World Parks and Entertainment to do their own things, just like they`ve been doing. Will we see a similar style used at Cedar Fair if Apollo does indeed purchase it? Who knows. One thing is, you have to wonder if this transaction occurs if Dick Kinzel may retire before his contract is up. I think there will likely be some shake up at the top executive level if this goes through. But its impact on the day to day operations of the parks remains to be seen. And as I`ve said before, will likely take a year or two before we fully see the impact on the park level experience. Yep, fear of the unknown and what the future holds is always a scary thought. I have experienced that first hand as I still haven`t been able to land a full time job utilizing my college degrees yet. So I am working at a seasonal job through mid January right now. From there, I have no idea what I will be doing, or where. The future can be a scary thing when you don`t know what is going to happen.

Why are you glad that its not Blackstone making the offer for Cedar Fair? By all accounts I`ve heard, they have a pretty much hands off approach to the parks and entertainment venues they own. Just look at Sea World Parks and Entertainment, the former Busch Entertainment Co. which Blackstone acquired from Busch InBev. And yes, Apollo ad an interest in Linen `N` Things and Harrah`s. But those companies likely had issues before Apollo purchased them. Remember that a private equity firm buys struggling companies because they are looking to buy them on the cheap, improve their value and sell them at a higher cost. Just like with flipping homes, not every project or company is successful. Look at the brighter side of things. Apollo owns AMC Theaters, which last time I went to Newport on the Levee, seemed to be doing really well. And they also own Norwegian Cruise Lines, so they have some experience owning entertainment and hospitality ventures.

Yes, that is what he is saying. Generally, private equity firms try to buy companies that seem to be a bargain to acquire, they make changes to improve their value and then sell them at a higher price, thus generating profits. That is the same concept as flipping a house. The interesting thing will be what happens to the units (I assume they will be purchased at a set price?), and how Apollo exactly finances this acquisition. And as I said before, we likely won`t see any immediate changes to park operations. And the true impact of this news may not be felt for several years. I mean just look at how people think of the changes that Cedar Fair has made to Kings Island thus far. They have only owned the park now for three and a half years.

Man, talk about a bad reference! And remember that most of the stuff in Nickelodeon Universe, now Planet Snoopy cannot easily be seen from Kings Island Drive. I`m sure that Kings Island has already begun the transformation to Planet Snoopy, its just we cant`t see it from the road.

Granted, this deal has not been finalized yet. Nor has Cedar Fair itself commented on this speculation (or will they likely do so until after it is finalized and announced if it is indeed ever finalized). It would not be surprising if Cedar Fair were bought based on their debt and the fact that they were likely going to be cutting their cash distribution to pay down their debts. Since Apollo is a private equity firm, it will be interesting to see exactly what their investment will be in Cedar Fair. It will also be interesting to see what happens to Cedar Fair`s units upon completion of the sale. Will owners in those units get a set amount of money in exchange for their shares? I would have to assume that something along those lines will happen. One thing that may happen if this sale goes through, is that the quarterly conference calls that Cedar Fair has had may become a thing of the past. So it may be harder to judge how well the parks are doing in terms of attendance, and harder to judge what level of capital investment the parks are doing every season. I`d expect day to day operations at the parks to remain relatively unchanged. Yes, some of the senior management at the corporate level may experience a turnover with this acquisition, but remember that Apollo would be investing in this company because they expect to see a return on their investment. Will there be changes at the parks? Sure, with any new owner of a park you can expect to see some changes. Like when Cedar Fair purchased Kings Island, you likely won`t see any drastic changes immediately. Needless to say, it will be interesting to see what happens over the next few days as more details emerge. Of course, this whole thing could end up not even happening.

Wow, a sad day indeed. His impact on the Walt Disney Company is still being felt. Its a shame that he lost his battle with cancer.

Excellent trip report! I first went to Dollywood last December and had an awesome time. I hope to be going back for Smoky Mountain Christmas sometime after Christmas. (I want to get one more visit out of my 2009 season pass.) And yes, the shows at Dollywood are top notch. They are as much of a draw and an attraction for me as the actual rides. Dollywood itself is an awesome experience for its theme and character. Herschend Family Entertainment has done a wonderful job with the park since they acquired the property in 1977, and Dolly Parton became a partner in 1986 when the property was renamed Dollywood from Silver Dollar City, Tennessee. (That is enough for today`s history factoid.)

Exactly. Word traveled fast. Had the cost of admission been more in line with the value of the event (or the perceived value to the target market) the event may be continuing to this day. Like I said before, had discounts to the admission price been offered that better matched the perceived value of the event, that word of mouth marketing could have established what a wonderful event that Winterfest was and the value that it provided (assuming of course that the admission price fairly represented the value in the eyes of the consumer, which it is evident it didn`t).

And again with Carowinds version, I think the problems came down to the price point that they were charging for people to gain access to this event. Especially in the inaugural season of doing an event like this. Granted Winterfest had been done at Kings Island before, but it had been thirteen years since the last one was held. They needed a way to attract the initial visit from families, even if at a discount the first season. Then once families visited Winterfest for the first time, they likely would return year after year as part of their family traditions ensuring future revenue in years to come. Not to mention the fact that getting people through the door in the first year can help produce word of mouth reviews which can be just as powerful if not more so than traditional marketing and advertising tactics.

Have you tried refreshing the page? Its hard to tell from your image what exactly you are seeing. Are you referring to the Fast Reply section? Once you click in there it expands, but it always remains at the bottom of the page, below the last post in that topic. It does not stay at the bottom of the screen covering up posts on your screen if you are not at the bottom of the thread.

See, with Winterfest in 2005 at Kings Island, they did only have select areas of the park open. Action Zone was closed, Coney Mall was closed, and Hanna Barbera Land was primarily closed (the part closest to Reptar and the picnic grove. They did have selected rides open, such as the train, Scooby Doo and the Haunted Castle, and a couple other kiddie rides that were close to International Street. The main emphasis for Winterfest was on entertainment and not rides. And the entertainment was top notch. Santa`s Toy Factory in the Kings Island Theater was wonderful, and the train ride was an experience with performers in the station and on the train. Too bad the train can`t be like that during the regular season! They also had performers in the Festhaus, and at Scrooge`s house next to Starbucks. Not to mention that they had a light show on Swan Lake and a parade every night. One of the things that hurt Kings Island`s reincarnated Winterfest was in fact the pricing structure. They were charging like $25 at the gate, parking was the normal rate and season pass holders still had to pay like $19 to get in, and they had to pay for parking, even if they had free parking on their season pass. While the event was pricey, it was well worth the cost in my opinion. But not enough people thought so, and attendance was not as high as the park had hoped. Part of that is because of competition. The Beach`s HolidayFest across the street offered admission that year for like $13, and allowed their pass holders to receive entry for free. Even though The Beach`s event was inferior to the experience offered by Winterfest, it seemed to be popular and attract guests. Now by all accounts I`ve heard, the original Winterfet that ran from 1982 through 1992 did in fact make money and attracted lots of crowds.

Well, the company has stated that they were looking for potential buyers for Worlds of Fun and Valleyfair (which ironically is one of the two original parks and where the "Fair" in Cedar Fair came from) as a way to pay down some of their debt. However, given the current economic environment, they have so far not been able to find a buyer willing to pay what they deem a reasonable price for those properties. Ultimately, if the Cedar Fair can`t meet the terms of their creditors, they may be forced into bankruptcy, not unlike Six Flags was forced to do. Obviously, Cedar Fair will try to do what they can to avoid having to go through bankruptcy. The economy will have to start improving next year in order for revenues to increase. Otherwise, they may be in more trouble than they already are in. After all, they have stated that they will likely suspend their cash distribution to unit holders in 2010 in order to pay down their debt levels. And as they stated in their last conference call, they continue to look at their cost structure and are continually looking to reduce their costs. One of the biggest variable costs that these parks have are labor costs, in the form of seasonal workers. So I would imagine that they will be closely watching their staffing levels to try and save as many nickles as they can in 2010.

Yes, shark6495, as the size of the company grows, there are some more levels of management/positions that the corporate company has. For example, its fair to say that Cedar Fair has more corporate level executives than say Coney Island or Holiday World. However, the biggest thing that happens with companies like Cedar Fair and Six Flags, is that they often choose to invest more heavily in the parks that generate the most revenue. So some parks often seem to not get the large capital expenditure projects of the signature parks, like Cedar Point. But the more parks one owns does not mean it is harder to make money. The inherent problem with Cedar Fair when they acquired the Paramount Parks is that they took on a large amount of debt. That debt has a significant impact on their balance sheet, and in turn has an impact on their ability to earn money and profits like they did before the acquisition. Another thing about smaller parks like Coney Island and Holiday World. They are one park and the executives at those parks can focus solely on that park and do not need to worry about meeting corporate`s budgets or projections. Additionally, they do not have to worry about getting a capital project approved for fear of loosing it to another park in the chain. Typically the revenues generated from these small parks will be used to reinvest in the park, as is clearly evident by Holiday World`s continued expansion.

Ok. I couldn`t remember for sure. I was last there in March, so I couldn`t remember what the exact price was for parking. Its still very reasonable considering they do run the trams to shuttle you from your car to the main entrance area.

And I believe that parking is either $7 or $8. But they do offer tram service since their parking lot is pretty much a very narrow L shape sandwiched alongside of a mountain.

Talk about a complicated situation if both measures reach the ballot and one passes and one fails. Even if the 49ers circumvent the environmental impact study that Cedar Fair is contesting, it still would not settle questions that Cedar Fair has raised over the impact that a new stadium would have on their business. We may never know exactly how the lease Cedar Fair has with the city is worded, but I`d imagine that the city would at some point have to address Cedar Fair`s concerns. They can`t keep dodging the topic and hope that the issue will just vanish into thin air.

I still have to wonder why the city of Santa Clara seems perfectly content to ignore the concerns of Cedar Fair. As has been noted before, an amusement park is in operation far more days a year than an NFL football stadium. Just look how often Paul Brown Stadium is used here in Cincinnati. Ten Bengals games a year, and little else. Granted there are other NFL stadiums (Heinz field comes to mind) that are widely used by collegiate and high school sports) and the reason why PBS isn`t used that way is a discussion for another time and place. I just think that if Santa Clara were wise, they would be working to appease Cedar Fairs concerns while also courting the 49ers. Yes, the city does own the land. But as was illustrated at the Mason city council meeting a couple weeks ago, it is NOT a good idea to anger businesses within your jurisdiction.

Yep. Twister opened this year occupying about a third of the site that was formerly home to the Zoom Flume. Twister is comprised of four slides (Zoom Flume had only two flumes). Two of the slides on Twister are for inner tubes, while two of the slides are body slides. And keep in mind that Twister occupies only 1/3 of the land that the Zoom Flume used to occupy. So there is room for additional water slides to be added in the future. When and if more water slides will be added at Sunlite Pool remains to be seen.

Both Carowinds and Kings Island held Winterfest in 2005. Both events were canceled for the following season because of poor attendance and the fact that Cedar Fair had acquired the parks. That said, if you have a chance to get down to Pigeon Forge Tennessee this year to visit Dollywood`s Smoky Mountain Christmas, I highly highly recommend it. You will not be disappointed. My first visit to Dollywood was last December and I went this past March and will be returning to check out Smoky Mountain Christmas again, later this month. They don`t have any concerts at Dollywood this time of year that I`m aware of, but their live show offering is superb, to say the least.

Just because the Ohio River floods, does not mean that there can`t be dark rides. In fact, Coney had several dark rides in its heyday. For example, in 1966 the Spook dark ride replaced The Bat Cave dark ride. As with a lot of things at Sunlite Pool, things get moved to higher ground, tied down or stored on trailers in case of a flood (I helped winterize Sunlite Pool this year, so I know that a LOT of very heavy things get moved to trailers). Same thing would happen with the old dark rides that used to reside at Coney. The subject of rides being painted at Coney is rather funny. Helicopters, which is located right in front of the administration building has been painted SEVERAL times since I started working at Coney in 2002. In 2002 it was painted blue and purple when it was moved from its former location (now the home of the Eurobungee Dome). Then several years back they were repainted yellow, purple and orange. This past year, Trabant received some fresh paint. One ride that has NOT been painted since I`ve worked at Coney is the ride I most liked to run, the Eli Bridge Ferris Wheel. And yes, the rides at Coney are not a huge source of attendance or revenue. They are there strictly to complement the pool, drive season pass sales and lure group sales to Coney. Sunlite Pool is the main revenue generator, with group sales also being a prime factor. And I would disagree with your last statement about not basing the progress of the park on the profit it makes. There were numerous times this past year where the park tried to conserve costs. Look at the several days when Coney closed early or didn`t even open at all because of the weather, even if it had cleared up in early afternoon. Or the fact that the rides were only open until 8pm Monday through Thursday this summer to save on labor costs. (Or the fact that Bumper Boats weren`t opened until 4pm Monday through Thursday). Coney is a business just like every other amusement park. They base their investments and operating procedures on projections and what they think is necessary to generate revenue and profits. As with any business, watching out for the bottom line is essential. Because if Coney did not care about profits, there would be no Coney to visit anymore, a la Geauga Lake up north!

A couple of things. First of all, admission to Coney in 2009 was relatively cheap compared to KI. ($21.95 for pool and rides for one day, or $11.95 for just the pool or just the rides). And since Coney is not owned by Cedar Fair (thank god), then why should you be able to use your Platinum Pass at Coney? Not to mention that Coney is set up slightly different than KI in the fact that guests are able to walk around the dry side of the park WITHOUT paying an admission fee. A fee is only charged if guests want to enter the Sunlite Pool area, or if they wish to ride the rides. (Granted, there is a general admission fee for such events as the Appalachian Festival and Fall-O-Ween, when season passes to Coney are NOT valid). Coney is a small park, and the management takes pride in keeping a clean park with great customer service. If another company bought Coney would this attention to detail be maintained? Who knows. I know that it is not uncommon to see the president of the park out and about sweeping up trash and talking with guests. So you don`t call the multi-million Twister addition at Sunlite Pool a major addition last year? The attraction was a success. While it may not be a coaster or a dark ride, it still was a marketable addition for the park. Will Coney see any additions next year? I doubt it considering they did just invest so much money in the park in 2009 (the same reason why KI likely won`t see a new attraction next year save for the rebranding of Nick Universe). Even if another company did buy Coney (which I don`t see happening anytime in the near future), just because that company may have deeper pockets does not mean they would install larger attractions. They would have to be able to get a return on their investment. And Coney can`t really compete directly with Kings Island because Coney is limited by available land, and the persistent problem it has faced since its inception: Ohio River flooding. Hopefully some of that makes some sense.

You would not even have seen that, had I not pointed it out to you. I agree that the colors that Carowinds repainted Nighthawk would look quite good on KI`s Flight Deck. Something needs to be done to spruce up the peeling paint and the drab color choice.

The land I speak of is the land that is used for the Balloon Glows every July 3rd. Behind Dodgems, Famous Fairways, and the Giant Slide. Between Riverbend and the picnic grove. The land between Kellogg Avenue and Lake Como is often used for overflow parking for Riverbend concerts. Not to mention that it is located rather far away from the main area of the park.

I believe that the tree by the exit platform of Congo Falls was a casualty of the remnants of Hurricane Ike when it blew through last September.

Yes. Instead, you should check out Coney Island Central. I have a ton of historical information on that site, including how the transition occurred that resulted in Taft originally buying Coney, and their decision to keep Sunlite Pool open, even after they built Kings Island. And yes, Vic Notling is the president/general manager of Coney. From all indications I got, attendance was soft at Coney this year. Which is somewhat to be expected since 2008 was a great year for the park. The thing that I think hurt Coney the most, as has hurt most other amusement parks, is the slump in group sales from businesses cutting back. Yes, the Pepsi Python does have to close early for some concerts at PNC Pavilion. There is still some room for expansion of rides at Coney that doesn`t involve encroaching on the picnic grove or removing existing rides.