bkroz

The answer to this lies within Cedar Fair's de facto motto: "Build a big, tall, fast ride, and they will come." And often, they do. But not forever. A simple scan of a timeline displays Paramount's plan: medium-sized additions rolled out across three or four of the parks all at once, every year. There were few years under Paramount that Kings Island went without a new ride. Very few were "major" mind you, but we got something most every year. 1998: Changed simulator, three new kid's rides, added water park attraction 1999: Face/Off, Drop Zone 2000: Son of Beast 2001: Nickelodeon Central, new restraints for Flight of Fear, changed simulator 2002: Tomb Raider: The Ride 2003: Scooby Doo & The Haunted Castle, Delirium, changed simulator. 2004: New parade, rethemed water park. 2005: Italian Job: Stunt Track, Winterfest 2006: Nickelodeon Universe Things like Italian Job, the Nickelodeon parade, changing simulator movies every three years, rethemeing the water park --- these changes were made at all or most of the Paramount Parks, and were all mid-sized investments that were marketable. Cedar Fair's policy is different: Add a huge ride, then coast on it for a couple of seasons, adding minimal things to the park before hyping up the next huge addition three or four years later. That hasn't really proven itself with the Paramount Parks thus far, because in 2007 the remains of Geauga Lake were split up (a small investment on the company's behalf that appears large) and the necessity of changing Nickelodeon to Snoopy. But if you imagine that Geauga Lake were still open, the timeline would look like this: 2006: New shows. 2007: Nothing. 2008: Nothing. 2009: Diamondback 2010: Kids area re-themed, re-themed dark ride, nighttime light show 2011: Nothing ... Consider even if the Nickelodeon contract lasted another five years. Would the kids area be re-themed this year? Doubtful. It was done of necessity. So if that weren't absolutely required, we probably wouldn't have gotten anything this year... Or maybe we would've... Neither way is necessarily "right." After all, one of the things Paramount never gave to Kings Island is a big, steel roller coaster because each season, every single park got something sizable... That's something we all know the park needed. We got it. But consider that now, we will most certainly never again receive a small, family-sized, fun addition like Italian Job or Flight of Fear - that's simply not grand enough to satisfy the Company - it needs to be big, tall, visible from everywhere, and able to be marketed for at least three years. Neither is right, neither is wrong. They're just very different. Keep in mind, too, that Cedar Fair owned what, seven parks? Paramount owned five. Now, Cedar Fair owns twelve. Funds are spread more thinly across the board. Because of their "huge addition every few years" policy, we essentially just have to sit back and wait our turn, whereas before we were guaranteed something of mild significance most every year.

Not quite... B&M Inverts (the kind that is so desired for Kings Island) are still being rotated quite a bit - one was just "newly" opened in 2008 and another is due in 2010. Are they new? No. But if Worlds of Fun's Patriot was dismantled and brought to Kings Island, wouldn't we consider it a new ride? Wouldn't the public? It's happened before (see, Stealth aka BORG Assimilator aka Nighthawk. See also, X-Flight aka Firehawk). The "strange models" you speak of are not all that strange - they're just other manufacturers take on the unique inverted layout. Intamin uses it in the inverted twisted impulse coasters, inverted catapult coaster as well as in more traditional, B&M like layouts. Vekoma has their SLC, Standard Looping Coaster (aka Hang 'n' Bang) that has been so widely distributed you'd be hard-pressed to find a country that's never had one, and the Invertigo model, like we have. Even a kids model (our own Flying Ace) and "inverted" seats for Arrow suspended coasters like Vampire. Vekoma even used B&M's signature four-abreast seating for their newest inverted coaster at Universal Studios Singapore, which, to the naked eye, looks nearly indiscernible from a B&M creation (which was doubtlessly the point, since that ride is a "spiritual sequel" to Islands of Adventure's B&M dueling coaster). The inverted coaster design was revolutionary, and even though B&M Inverts aren't necessarily still being cranked off the assembly line, they certainly aren't a "trend" the way that stand-ups or suspended coasters were. They're just the natural antithesis of the sitting roller coaster, and most every company has attempted to add their own spin to it.

It is very true that the ride had as Scooby and has now a "cardboard" feel. However, I think that's what both Paramount's Kings Island and Sally Corp. were going for - a cartoon-ish, 2-D style shooting game. It wasn't meant to be heavy on story or flashy effects, just a fun family ride with a much-loved character. And I believe it succeeded in that - based just on the outrage when it was first learned that Scooby was leaving, it seems that the ride did work its way into our hearts. Not necessarily because of the effects (or lack thereof), but because of Scooby's presence. Take a look at Sally's website if you don't believe me. If they wanted to do "better" or different, they could have. They have the skill to create a ride that's not blacklight and carboard cutouts, and have done it many times. It's clear that that's the look they were going for with Scooby Doo. Boo Blasters is a fantastic ride and actually has what Scooby Doo lacked - a storyline; a villain; a goal; special effects. You'll notice that the effects that Sally added this time around are not 2-D, cartoonish figures. The skeleton scene? The roundtable chasing scene? The final Boocifer? They are real, frightening scenes enhanced by realistic, non-comical audio. Also keep in mind that beacuse of our omnimover system (as opposed to the other Paramount Park's one-car-in-a-room-at-a-time system), we don't have the same effects they do - the blacklight to regular light transition finale, the steam that erupts in front of Boocifer, the not-knowing-about-the-smoke-screen-until-you're-right-in-front-of-it, etc. The ride is great, our version just had a couple of reductions because of our ride system. In some areas, Boo Blasters would be better off if it weren't interactive. Particularly in the second half, it's actually got a really great storyline, intense effects, and great scenes that are actually worth looking at. If the guns were removed, you could hear the really interesting sound effects, you might notice the skilled craftsmanship, and actually take in the story. On the other hand, if the guns were removed the ride would lose its much-touted "interactive" campaign, and the first half would be boring. Also keep in mind Phantom Manor was removed partly because it had Disney-quality animatronics in a seasonal park. Do you think they would've survived to this point, anyway?

When they said "Leave questions for Friday's 5@5," who said they meant Friday, May 28th?

As was said, The Beast was not extended or lengthened with a second lift hill. There are those here who visited the park for The Beast's grand opening, and can attest to that. So if you ask me, we should refrain from addressing that again, because Selective either (1) was unaware and is now informed, or (and I wouldn't bring this up for every poster here...) (2) is trying to incite some sort of giant debate / attention-seeking moment. Either way, why don't we just let that particular point die? As for extending Flight Deck, it won't happen. The manufacturer of that particular type of suspended coasters, Arrow, is no longer around in that form, and their suspended coasters are no longer made. In fact, Flight Deck was the last one built. Only four of the rides are still even around, and another seems to close every year as parts become rarer and more expensive. Flight Deck, I believe, is one of the few (maybe the only? But Vortex is similar, right?) suspended coasters with only one lift hill, thus making it one of the shortest... It really is a shame, because even by the end of the ride it still has a LOT of speed that could be burnt off with an extra 1000 feet of track or just an added helix. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for much work to be done on Flight Deck. One of the best suspended coasters ever to exist (in the opinion of many), Big Bad Wolf, was torn down last year because it "reached the end of its service life." In other words, it was probably just too much to maintain with so few parts scattered around. And consider that three of the remaining four suspended coasters are owned by Cedar Fair - don't you think that Flight Deck and Vortex will be sacrificed the very instant that Iron Dragon needs a spare part? Sure Vortex and Flight Deck are superior rides in most every way, but Cedar Point needs that 17 coasters!

http://www.visitkingsisland.com/public/park/shows/index.cfm?id=80 In the description, it says "On days when the park closes at 10 pm or later." The actual little "weekly calendar" only lists Fridays and Saturdays.

That's my only issue with the new ride, really. Rapids rides drench you and make you dripping wet and you'll be that way all day; the giant splashdown Congo Falls boat gets you pretty wet, but you can at least dry in an hour; log rides are supposed to get you a little moist, mostly spritzed and misted. I could understand if Shoot the Rapids was Cedar Point's only water ride. But they already have the two "soak you to the bone" rides (the rapids and the splashdown). What they need is something that doesn't actually get you that wet, but helps you cool down. I think the inescapable waterfall and the massive splash from Shoot the Rapids will actually work against it in the long run - if people want to be soaked, there are two rides with much shorter lines within a 4 minute walk. But, maybe I'll be proven wrong! Maybe the waterfall will stop just before you get to it, and the splash will not be as massive when the boat is loaded.

And even then things do not really make sense... Sometimes rides can't be compared, I guess. If every Kings Island ride had a counterpart at Cedar Point, they would probably not both exist. Firehawk vs. Raptor? Beast vs. Mean Streak? Invertigo vs. Wicked Twister? Even Power Tower vs. Drop Tower seems obvious, but is really impossible to judge.

AMAZING pictures. They have me so excited for this! Thank you!!

I hope to see the lights on the Tower really utilized! A question: Is the Charlie Brown stripe only on the face of the tower pointing towards the Starlight Spectacular? Or is it on all four sides?

Canada's Wonderland's rainbow arch still stands today... After all, even last year they had Hanna-Barbera Land. I believe the arch is still a rainbow and now has the official Planet Snoopy logo on it. It makes sense to have one placed off International Street - there's a giant logo coming in from Rivertown, but only the small little circular plaza with the Snoopy statue when approaching from International Street. It's nice and quaint, but doesn't feel grand. The arch will help that!

The page says: RIDE OPENING UPDATE: Shoot the Rapids will not open Memorial Day Weekend, but we anticipate it will open soon. Please check back for updates. People over at pointbuzz are discussing seeing the boats stuck in the turn out of the station. Others report that it looked like workers were pushing the boats as if they were stuck on the turns, and even that they believe some boat was filled with water. All are unverified, of course. The ride looks nice, but from the whispers I heard when standing near the ride yesterday, people are starting to think it's more trouble than it worth... I do feel a bit disappointed - the rockwork, water falls, and fog machines around the splashdown look beautiful, but how long will they last? The ride appears from my point of view to be little more than our own log ride - meandering through large areas of emptiness and then a big hill (or two). Wasn't this ride $10.5 million? Where are the animatronics? The hidden coaster drops? The special effects? The things that will set this apart from any other log ride? It looks nice, but a lot of work for a small payoff - that's how it seems so far at least. What do I know?

Hahah alright okay! I figured something along those lines. It's all good now. Haha.

Robbie (CoastersRZ) will not approve of this post. It is a joke and a pic of a old light footer at The Racer. Which is allowed. Beastfan26 don't act like a moderator in which you are not. It's a joke because the word is technically "footing." Don't sweat it.

Wait... you won't be 18 til July, but when you worked at the park in the 90's (thus being 8 or younger) you were driving cherry pickers around the park? GYK, who has missed something...?

Hmmm... Really? Sure it may still injure people despite their best efforts to the contrary... Of course, so might Diamondback, or The Beast, or Millennium Force. But there's no telling how rough it may be if any number of the rumor-proposed changes are enacted, and the likelihood and frequency of injuries to riders may be cut DRASTICALLY. Just wanted to clarify that.

This is certainly something worth discussing, but I'm not sure we'd ever arrive at an answer... I don't know much of Son of Beast to be honest, but what I do know (not guaranteeing its all correct) is mostly this: The ride opened with Premier trains that contained an extra row in each car. They were removed for whatever reason; often assumed to be in favor of lighter weight trains to salvage the structure, which had previously cracked due to over-stress. The lighter trains, then, would not be able to complete the vertical loop, and it was removed. But as Terpy said, just because C (new trains) comes after A (cracked structure) and B (loop removal) does not mean A and B caused C. The "new" train's lighter weight is often credited as making the ride much more rough, as well as eliminating the "middle row of each car" option that was often considered one of the tolerable places to sit. Son of Beast's track is wider than any other wooden roller coaster, thus requiring every train to ever grace its tracks to be custom-built and/or widened. Perhaps new age coaster trains (Timberliners come to mind because I know practically nothing about wooden roller coasters) would solve some of the roughness. However, I don't necessarily think the park wants to just "solve the roughness." There's clearly a question of structural integrity (or, at least, there used to be). So in effect, the park would be required to improve the ride's structure, and get new, specially-modified trains that both reduce the ride's otherwise inherent roughness and adhere to a very specific, very necessary weight restriction. So the way I see it, we're sort of looking for the Adonis of all coaster cars that fits so many restrictions it's ridiculous and a braced & stabilized structure. And that's assuming they go for the very least of the fixes... Things like the Iron Horse redo or Intamin pre-fab are more elaborate still...

http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal-blog/index.php/six-flags-magic-moun-6992/ Mr. Six's Dance Coaster has been delayed until 2011. Cedar Point retains its crown. The first action undertaken by the new higher-ups of Six Flags? What effect might this have on Cedar Point's future coaster expansion, as some had thought that it might? We'll see!

http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21539&view=findpost&p=380167 Haha! It happens to the best of us, especially with dauntingly long posts. But yes, I'm sure it would be magical (if you managed to actually make it to the top)!

Thank you, Gator!

Haha! This is really just adding to the joke that is our Premier Backlot Stunt Coaster trains... They're still good looking, but think about it - you have to squeeze yourself into the space where the door once was, slide all the way down into the low-set bucket seat with zero leg room, pull down the lap bar / ankle bar combo, then seatbelt yourself in... And that's a family coaster that hits a max speed of 40 and doesn't go upside down. I know most of that is for the sake of the MINI design, but still... Wow. If Backlot Stunt Coaster got these exact trains, the ride would honestly probably be more enjoyable. Our former MINI trains are starting to get the Premier vibration, have absolutely no padding, are not ergonomically designed in the lower-back region, and are so overly-secured with about five safety devices. It's to the extent that it's become a tedious and unnecessary loading procedure for a small, already-low-throughput coaster. The cars we have don't look TERRIBLE, but if it would improve throughput, comfort, safety, we might as well switch to new trains. That being said, I don't know that any rides will get new trains, and I bet Flight Deck and Vortex (and Son of Beast?) would be first priority. One thing Premier doesn't really do that I wish they would is tiered seating - even like Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit where it's just very slightly tiered, it provides a better experience for all.

Or three-of-a-kind... Of course, according to the general consensus, ours is in the best shape of the three, special-effects wise... If that doesn't tell you something about the other two, I don't know what would...

How about, if you don't want to talk about it, then don't. I don't see why a topic should be ever be closed unless it's a repeat, or has become a "flame war"... The name of the topic is very distinct, "Son of Beast being dismantled?!?!" and so there ought to be very little confusion when it's in the "recent posts" box on the main page that it is a topic you don't care for. If it doesn't interest you, then don't click on it. If there's nothing left to say about it, then the topic will slowly fall back in the forums until its deleted. If we start deleting every topic that doesn't seem relevant to some new people and try to restrict to conversation to one thread on Snoopy's Starlight Spectacular, one thread on Planet Snoopy, one thread on Son of Beast, and one thread for 'Other', what's the point?

In many ways, Firehawk does come across as pay-per-ride attraction... If a group brings a bookbag, they have no choice but to pay or have a party-member not ride... So if everyone wants to ride, they must pay. And if you're the one who isn't riding to hold the bag, you have not only the duration of the ride to wait, but also the hour or so that your friends will be in line.

I think it would be an all-time low if an announcement were made prior to show-time asking that guests (especially young children) please refrain from dancing. What a world this would be! The day that we as a culture tell our children to stop dancing so they don't "distract from the show" is the day I move to Canada. I hear it's a wonderland up there, anyways.