bkroz

Son of Beast cannot be "fixed" with a re-tracking. I think that those in power at Cedar Fair have made it clear that Son of Beast will never operate with any substantial semblance to its most previous form. The ride needs re-evaluated in most all departments - layout, structure, and tracking. I think that those in power would sooner create (forgive me for saying this) the world's largest bonfire than to re-open Son of Beast with a simple re-tracking or new trains. Lance (by his own admission in that very post) says that he "doesn't know exactly what may be involved in the rumored “fixing” of Son of Beast for 2012." That is the most important thing on that entire page. I would bet money that Son of Beast will never re-open unless it looks, feels, and is constructed very differently than the ride we recall from 2009. Really. From a legal point of view, to re-track this thing (even thoroughly) and open it up is absolute madness. Really. Some of the people at the company's helm might be more book smart than street smart, but anyone with any common sense at all would know better than to re-track this thing and then open it. What he is saying is literally the most vague thing he could possibly say. "Whatever they try now will be their last attempt"? Well no **** Sherlock. But if you ask me, Son of Beast will open completely re-created, or will not open at all.

To my knowledge, ours is the only of the former Paramount Parks with such an area (which, by the way, pre-dates Paramount - it was called then and is called now The Tower Gardens). When Paramount came along, they filled the gardens with movie props and engraved stone panels with famous Paramount movie titles. Kings Dominion doesn't have a standalone area, but there is a pathway of those stone tiles that circles the base of their Eiffel Tower. Like ours, they are now blank. I believe they had props like ours (Enterprise models, etc) in the flower beds around the tower, but that may be a false memory... The Tower Gardens truly were a beautiful spot at Kings Island, and while I understand that they serve no specific function, it's a shame to see them so deserted. I can't imagine how it would hurt to at least fill the ponds and lightly circulate the water, even if the waterfalls and lighting weren't set. There's a nice gallery of the "old" gardens here. It really is a shame, because it was always a very relaxing, well-landscaped, romantic spot to escape to, and still has to the potential to be so. I think that's why a few of us here were hoping that's where the Starlight Experience would take place - it would liven up that area at night, it's easy to navigate people through, and it would've made it more along the lines of Cedar Point's Starlight show, which is truly all-encompassing, with tree canopies illuminated above you the entire time (whereas ours is admittedly more like a few trees in a wide field with Christmas lights wrapped around them as is). If you haven't yet, visit the top of the Eiffel Tower and look down on the Gardens to see exactly how "photogenic" they are today. Sigh.

If I didn't know the Interpreter's drinking habits, I might be on edge! As is, I'm instead seeking a hidden code... An extra space, no close-parentheses and three incorrect letters... Or so it seems! I had never considered the effect of the sand on Disaster Transport. Very interesting! I think this ride looks lengthy enough and well-paced for what it's meant to be. And while I don't understand the issues that have lead to such a delay, it's exciting to see it working out. I think it's doing a very important thing that has little to do with the ride experience itself: It functions as a reminder that ingenuity and preservation are important in this industry as much as any other... EDIT: Can anyone fill me in on what the second station (around the more minute mark) is for?

Sometimes it's hard to remember. But yes, that's the basic gist of it. Just, you know, mention where you heard something or begin a sentence with "I think" or "I bet." Or don't. I suppose it doesn't matter. But woohoo for Cedar Point! And just like that, the expected-front-runner is coming in third. (And if Kings Island's tower somehow ends up being the forth to open, I may truly cry). Hope none of ya'll were bettin' men!

Cedar Points FB page!!! I was asking what "PizzaBaby027"s source is. I see that Cedar Point's is open, and am happy that I'm visiting that park on Thursday.

Source? Fact? Opinion? Guess? GYK, who opines a lot 'round these parts, but tries to remember to present it as such... EDIT: I'd wager that you've got the right idea. But the presentation hurts.

While this delay is obviously not typical, it does happen, and barring any major problems that postpone the opening for weeks, I think that things are going okay. It was a prototype, and that alone says something. Don't forget that Mach Tower at Busch Gardens has also been postponed. And honestly, it seems there are more cases of rides opening late than there are rides opening on time in the last decade or so. In this industry especially, I think, we're talking about the most strict safety standards imaginable. And they're stricter today than they have been at any point in history (just as next year, they'll be stricter than they were this year)! The experience looks to be a very well-rounded one, and if our WindSeeker looks and sounds as nice as Cedar Point's, this will indeed be an attraction worth waiting for - the cherry on top of a very thoughtfully-done season at Kings Island!

And I can think of at least one roller coaster whose zero car is supposedly heavily weighted, and is required in order for the train to make it through the course without valleying.

I'm confused... This is Screamscape we're talking about, right? Fun to read, but hardly worth taking to heart... Dick Kinzel spoke candidly about Son of Beast, saying that in his humble opinion, it defied the very laws of physics. He also mentioned that the Iron Horse treatment was very expensive, and that best-case scenario, they'd have to see how it held up after two or three years before seriously considering it at all. And in two or three years (God willing), he won't even be the CEO anymore... So unless he decides to "go out with a bang" by making a very costly, very risky decision concerning Son of Beast, I doubt anything will happen. Would you expect a new, fresh CEO to make a very costly, very risky decision concerning it? I'd hope not... This is a time of (hopefully) massive change at a corporate level, and I can't see a Son of Beast decision being Kinzel's last, or a new CEO's first. Trust me, I'd like it to happen... Especially if it were the Iron Horse treatment. Nothing would make me happier than to see Son of Beast succeed as a smooth, airtime-powered, crazy-transition, world's largest hybrid. Let's face it: We're going to need a new ride to replace Son of Beast no matter what. If its replacement utilizes some of its old structure and theme, then I'd be ecstatic that such a ride could find new life as a massive, steel twister. And I think that would be an appropriate use of money, too, since the Texas Giant seems to be doing incredible right now (with 3 hour lines being very typical, and on a ride that used to be considered one of the worst in the world)! Pagoda, as for the haunted house, I think that if the ride were to be re-tracked and overhauled or anything like that, you would see the haunt stuff removed. Possibly the entire station, and probably more than that... Why would they tip-toe around haunted house props?

A notable difference being that Lindner desired to stay in power. He apparently thought he was doing fine. At least CBS was negligent on all fronts and attempted to get rid of all of the parks out of disinterest. Haha!

Yes, Mantis' main problem is that it forces a lot of blood to your legs (or that's sensation you get, at least). When I was younger a bit shorter, it also did a number on my ears. Not that there's that constant "head banging," but there was enough to leave them red and make fresh earrings on friends bleed. Yikes! I always equate Mantis to having been designed by a kid playing Roller Coaster Tycoon who, try as he might, just couldn't quite get the track to reconnect at the station. So of course, he adds odd twists and inversions to try to get the track heading in the right direction. The result is a very convoluted, twisted, track that seems to have odd pacing and no real strong points. But most all B&M stand-ups are designed that way, so I suppose it's what they were going for. Mantis Riddler's Revenge Chang

I was born in 1991, and remember two or three from my younger days, but that's about it. Still quite a memory!

Wow. The music makes it like a very peaceful lullaby. I love it! The question is, if Kings Island's features the same music, can we officially think of it as a movie park again? We'll have music from the Harry Potter franchise, music from Inception, and (whether they like it or not) a ride that recreates scene-for-scene the finale of The Italian Job. Add that to the very movie-worthy Flight of Fear, the new songs on Delirium and Drop Zone, the flight deck on Flight Deck, and Dinosaurs Alive and I'd say we have a very detail-oriented seasonal amusement park again! Also, I love how the WindSeeker logo sign changes colors with the tower. Such detail on this ride! I'm thoroughly impressed.

The finally repainted the whole ride and added a noteworthy detail to the brake run. I'm willing to say "thank you" sans repainted handrails. Besides, that's a whole lot of handrails! That's not necessarily first on my dream to-do list.

Wait, which kind? The original? Or the soft serve that has a blueberry flavor? Or the icy configuration that people are describing this season? Worth its weight in gold either way, I'm sure. GYK, who didn't intend to start another "food is too expensive at Kings Island" argument or to point out how Kings Island price : quality ratio compares to similar venues, but rather to add a little bit of choose-your-adventure humor to a touchy subject. Thanks, jcgoble3!

Yes, and on such a rare and apparently desired trip to Cedar Point (his first, I believe), why suggest that he skips anything? If I had passed over half the rides that people have suggested that I do, I would have missed out on rides that became some of my absolute favorites. Ride Raptor. Ride Mantis. Ride Mean Streak. The OP may end up loving all three, especially since he mentioned Cedar Point is only the second park he's ever been to. "Don't ride Raptor; Montu is way better." Some people don't have that experience yet, so they really shouldn't pass up the opportunities given. All are unique experiences that the OP has not yet had, and it would be absolutely ridiculous for him to walk right past them and say "Eh, some people on a discussion board told me these weren't worth it." Wrong attitude. If he finds himself limited in the amount of time he has at the park, it would be reasonable for him to make choices between different rides. But to eliminate straight off The Bat would lead to a pretty sad trip.

But after you see the price of $3.75 assigned to a small cone, what will you do? Turn to page 67 if you would buy the ice cream anyway. Turn to page 32 if you would instead leave the park and get $1.10 soft serve down the street.

You'd be surprised about Mean Streak... I would say that Son of Beast is more jerky (but in all fairness, not by much). Still, the Son of Beast experience is better in my opinion. It was more "worth it," whereas I leave Mean Streak wishing you hadn't bothered... It just goes on and on and on, twisting in on itself for soooo long, and nothing notable happens at all. And it's not so much that Cedar Point is bigger. Imagine being at Flight Deck and wanting to get to Diamondback. Complete opposite ends of the park. But you can cut through the center of the park under the Eiffel Tower. That, of course, is the advantage of the hub-and-spoke format popularized by Disneyland - there's a center and then different paths that radiate out. It makes it easy to navigate, and circumvent. No matter where you are in the park, you're not that far from anything else because you can cut through the hub. A lot of built-from-scratch parks are made with that layout. See, Magic Kingdom, Animal Kingdom, Six Flags America and Great Adventure, Universal's Islands of Adventure to an extent, the three original KECO parks...) Cedar Point is not that way. It was not built to be a theme park. It evolved over time from a picnic grove and then a small midway. Today, that midway has grown. Blur your eyes a bit and you'll see the white pathway on the map form pretty much an upside-down teardrop. The point being, to get from Mean Streak to the park's entrance is quite a distance, and there are no shortcuts. Even to get from Millennium Force to Top Thrill Dragster, you must either walk south past Mantis, around Iron Dragon, up past Power Tower and Corkscrew, or walk north through the whole Frontier Trail, through Frontiertown, around past Gemini and Magnum and Corkscrew... The point being, the midway-based layout makes for a lot of walking, especially given the complex itineraries we're suggesting, which involve walking from back to front to back to front... We're just sadistic like that.

I don't think I've ever seen a line for Mean Streak in the years I've been going. It's usually a walk-on. Speaking relatively, I would say you'll encounter short waits for the wooden coasters, Corkscrew, Gemini, and the smaller family flats. With proper planning, expect medium wait times for Cedar Creek Mine Ride, Disaster Transport, the giant flats (Skyhawk, maXair), the water rides, Magnum, Top Thrill Dragster, and Raptor. You're almost certain to encounter a wait on Millennium Force and Maverick. And like I said, it's all relative. If you go on a Saturday in July, a "short" wait may be 45 minutes (and those are the frustrating days... Wait 45 minutes for Corkscrew, or 2.5 hours for Top Thrill Dragster? Neither is ideal, and when that happens I sometimes just want to give up and go home haha). And again, all of that is just in my experience from the times I've been there. Others may have entirely different suggestions.

The only one of your questions I can attempt to help with is the one about wait times and roller coasters. In general, know that Cedar Point is much different from Kings Island. You will likely wait an hour or more for a few attractions, and given the right mix of temperature, day, and school group visitation, you may find many rides have longer waits that you think they'd be worth. There's nothing more frustrating than seeing a 45 minute wait for Corkscrew or Iron Dragon, but it can and does happen. Just a couple of things I've noticed - Raptor gets multi-hour waits almost immediately upon opening. I'd say that this is mostly because it's the first big ride people see upon entering. But if you wait until early evening to ride it, or ride it on the way out, you'll find the line to be much more tolerable. Also, it's one of my least favorite lines to wait in... There's just something that's not very feng-shui about the setup of it, and it seems to take even longer than it really does. I don't know if there's a good time to ride Millennium Force, so perhaps someone else can help you out there. In my experience, if it's a slower day, the line will be between 45 - 60 minutes from open to close, and if it's a heavier day, it'll be 90 - 120 minutes from open to close without much variation throughout the day. But I could be wrong. I don't typically see long lines for Magnum, and it has a good throughput, but it's one of those where there are 10 pairs of people line up for each row, so the station always looks chaotic even when the line isn't that long. All of the flats have pretty high capacities, so even when the line for maXair is onto the midway, it's usually a 3 or 4 cycle wait. Also know that some of the park's smaller rides don't open until 11:00. I know Disaster Transport and Paddlewheel Excursions are two examples. There are more. I don't know if Maverick still earns 2+ hour waits as it once did, because I have just made a habit of saving it for last. I always get in line 10 minutes before the park closes, as I think that's when the line is the shortest that it'll be. It's usually still at least 45 minutes, but it's not as scorchingly hot and I think it's a really satisfying night ride (especially when the effect lights are on in the tunnel). It seems like this is a major trip for you, so I don't know if this plan would work, but what I usually do is to ride around through the morning, leave for lunch, and then come back and park at the tip of the peninsula in the Soak City parking lot. Since I ride Maverick last, that makes it at least a little easier to get back to the car at 10:30 or 11:00 when I finally get off. (Remember, if you're in line before 10, you will ride given no external incidents like weather or a mechanical issue). Cedar Point is very close in size to Kings Island as far as acreage, but it's essentially one long, long midway that splits into a loop. That makes navigation a lot more tiring than with Kings Island's hub-and-spokes format, so getting from Maverick to the front gate is probably a good 15 - 20 minute walk... Not fun at 11:00 when you've been riding all day. Honestly I haven't waited longer than 30 minutes for Top Thrill Dragster in a few years, so it seems they've finally learned how best to operate it, or people have redirected their attention elsewhere, which is good - waiting more than an hour for it is a little silly when you really think about it. Mantis is usually pretty packed because of the slow loading time. I'm sure you plan to make the most of the trip, but don't pass up the "smaller" rides like Blue Streak, Disaster Transport, Wicked Twister, even the Cedar Creek Mine Ride. They aren't kidding when they say Cedar Point is a multi-faceted park, so if you do have a minute and need a break, walk through Camp Snoopy or Frontier Trail. There are many interesting things to see.

Not anymore. According to that article at least, their bumper cars had an island added in the center in 2006, directing the flow a bit more and making it look more like ours. The suit alleges that that safety precaution had been added at all of the Cedar Fair parks except Great America, which is negligent on behalf of the owner.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_18249348?nclick_check=1 http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_18249348?nclick_check=1 So, this patron has the right to sue based on someone who does not represent the park choosing to perform a "prohibited activity?" I think this is absolutely silly and if there is any justice in the world, it won't progress far. But still, I expect Kings Island's bumper cars will now crank down the speed on their already turtle-paced cars.

Yes, and be warned that the strobes in the skeleton scene he described above are more severe than anything that was in Scooby Doo and the Haunted Castle that I can recall.

For a while, at least. But we human beings (and I daresay, Americans) tend to have such a short memory for things... Remember when everyone tried selling their trucks when gas hit $4.15 a gallon a few summers ago? And then, when it returned to $3.00, everyone just forgot; they just simply acted as if nothing had happened and innovation slowed and trucks were acceptable again... Until gas hit $4.00 again this summer, and then everyone panicked as if they'd never imagined it... And once gas prices lower this winter, we'll all forget and go about our lives and innovation towards gasoline alternatives will slow... Situations like this are the same. Everyone's guard will slowly fall yet again, until something happens.

Because that is not allowed, and you will be called out on it. Maybe the prices they charge for the on-ride photos doesn't seem fair to you, but you still can't skirt around the rules and policies they put in place. Even though you might not agree with their prices, attempting to duplicate for free the product that they're trying to sell is stealing.