bkroz

And when some (or perhaps most) of us bought our passes last fall and winter, it was advertised that we'd have ERT on The Beast and Diamondback. And that was a circus unto itself when people here found out they'd be "lied to" about it, with some here going so far as to say they'd seek refunds and never step foot on the 300 foot tall swing. Most, to my knowledge, have rescinded that.

^ Perspective, my friend. Now, concerning the "wave pool" note: In 2006, Cedar Fair added a second wave pool to Geauga Lake's Wildwater Kingdom and a second to Dorney Park's Wildwater Kingdom. Kings Dominion's first and Great America's second wave pool were added in 2007 under Cedar Fair. Carowinds' second one was added in 2008 under Cedar Fair. In 2009, Breakers Bay wave pool was constructed at Valleyfair. Michigan's Adventure also has two wave pools... GYK, who is only saying that Cedar Fair has a thing for wave pools, and may very well see a second one as a necessity at its high attendance parks... They "beefed up" the dry parks with B&M hypers, now perhaps they're "beefing up" the water parks with double wave pools...

I don't know if we can really say that ignoring in-park smoking is mandated from a corporate level... But we can certainly say one thing: if those in power believed that smoking outside of designated areas was a serious offense worth punishing, than it would be punished. The people who sign the checks decide what their employees prioritize, and if those folks wanted to put an end to dress code violations, smoking, and line-cutting, they would. It's as simple as saying, "Your work is being monitored, and you will be held responsible for clear violations that happen around you." And like I mentioned, if it were enforced even for a short time, the behavior would trail off with word of mouth. That being said, if a policy truly requiring employees to speak to rule-breakers was implemented, I would love to see Mr. Kinzel or any other higher-up step up to a group of smoking teenagers and politely ask them (without mentioning his company position) to kindly relocate to a smoking area. Ha!

^^ Be careful who you mean by "they." Kings Island doesn't allow swimming attire in the dry park. So says its official rules, after all. But a ride operator might. Another may not. Another may know full well that it is not allowed, but the 16-year-old part timer doesn't find it worth his minimum wage hourly pay to confront the loud, half-naked group of teenagers who's strutting their stuff down the path. Perhaps one security guard finds it a punishable offense, while another just rolls his eyes because he has more important ways to spend his time. The official stance of Kings Island is clear. Just because an action isn't punished doesn't mean it's allowed. Not that picking and choosing application of rules is a good thing. I was extremely upset when my group as well as two others came together to report a group of line-cutters. But, they were six foot tall African American men. Whether that has anything to do with the fact that no one spoke with them, I can't say. It was irritating. But that's life. Sometimes there are more important things to do, and sometimes, it's just not worth the imagined scenario. ^ I agree that Kings Island is the worst at that. At Disney and Universal, it is quite clear upon entering that if you are smoking outside of a smoking area, you will be escorted from the park with no refund, no questions asked, period. And best of all - I've never seen it come to that. Sometimes just establishing that rules are enforced does a whole lot of good. Word of mouth spreads, so if a friend's friend's friend was asked to leave for smoking even one time, than all of that person's friend's friend's friends will think twice. I sometimes think it's because of Kings Island's area. Kings Dominion is very, very, very stringent on security, but probably because of the areas it caters to. Perhaps the thought process about Kings Island is "Ohio? What's the worst that could happen..."

I'm thinking I already know the answer to this, but any word on that world's largest dinosaur animatronic that caught fire? Should we even expect to see it this season?

My friends and I went to a dress-code strict Catholic high school. On one certain day each year, we were allowed to wear solid red and green t-shirts for Christmas. Every single year, my friend wore a blue shirt, which none of us noticed until we looked back in photos. When we asked how she got away with it, she gave me some fantastic advice: If you look like you know what you're doing, people will think you know what you're doing. I think thieves use the same policy. They are not stupid enough to rifle through a book bag, pull out wallets, cell phones, keys, etc., fist pump, and then dart off. A book bag left unattended could contain many things, and it's a matter of walking up to it, picking it up like it's your own, slinging it over your shoulder, and walking away. I'd think that it's later before they actually look through it and see what they got. And yes, people are mean-spirited. I've had friends who have had wallets stolen, and weeks later, have had their driver's license mailed to them. What a truly terrible thing to do. I would feel so violated. It's totally possible that someone took the money and gave the book bag to lost and found. It's also possible that the bag was discarded after its worthwhile contents were removed, then taken to lost and found by a third party.

From 2002 to 2006, the ride was called Tomb Raider: The Ride. It flipped upside down four times, had synchronized music, water fountains, fog, lasers, a pre-show video that established a storyline, and "icicles" on the ceiling. When the ride was renamed The Crypt after Paramount references were removed from the park, what was left of the special effects were removed. seemingly to compensate, the ride was reprogrammed to flip upside down nine times, though with no music or effects. In 2009, the ride was again reprogrammed to only flip upside down 2 times. Now, one little piece at a time, the themeing is returning, with the queue being attended to, new on-ride music, and some restored on-ride lighting this season alone. But it's still less themed than 2002, and less thrilling than 2008, which is why so many people have a problem with it. YouTube search "Tomb raider the ride" and you'll find very informative videos.

A friend and I are driving up to Chicago on the 14th to visit a friend, and we've decided to hop over to Six Flags Great America while we're there. Basically I'm just looking for tips from anyone who's been there before. Is it a more crowded Six Flags Parks? Would it be worth it to invest in Flash Pass, or is it like Kings Island where most rides hang around 15 minute queues? How's Raging Bull compared to other B&M hypers? Any really surprising stand-out rides? I've also never been on a Superman-layout B&M flier, so I'm looking forward to that just to see how my experience compares with the not-so-nice things I've heard. I also know there are two Dark Knight coasters (with the other at Great Adventure, I think...) and that one is supposed to be better-themed than the other... Any word on that? I know I'm a little late on this, too, but I'm looking forward to riding the Little Dipper. I'm not a "credit whore" nor am I kind of person who can be convinced to avoid a ride entirely, so don't even bother! Thanks guys.

I dare say you've answered your own question. Response from the public and enthusiasts has been almost entirely negative in regards to the ride cycle that the Crypt has run for the past few seasons. If the ride could operate a more intense program without sacrificing reliability, don't you think it would? Entertainment companies don't remove wooden loops, delay ride openings, trim first drops, change ERT rides, and shorten top spin programs just to irritate and anger their visitors. There is a method to their madness (usually), and this case is one such example.

When WindSeeker is not running, a replacement is provided. You paid for access to Kings Island throughout the 2011 season. The perks are exactly that - additional opportunities that the park offers. At some point, you certainly put your name to something that says they have the right to edit or amend those perks however they choose. As I said, your pass has more than paid for itself, and the park is no longer making money off of you as an individual unless you choose to eat / shop inside the park. I'd argue that such is the case with most people who take advantage of ERT. While the park does all that it reasonably can to get the advertised rides up and running, it can't always happen. Again, perhaps making WindSeeker the ERT was not the wisest decision. But regardless, it is the ERT ride. When it doesn't work, they do what they can with the operations zones they have. Understand that there are many, many forces at work here and that the park does what they can.

Stubborn? I agree wholeheartedly that Diamondback and The Beast are a good choice for ERT, and I think most of us were taken aback when WindSeeker and Vortex were announced. But logically, there are so many reasons for it that have nothing to do with the park wanting to ruin your experience. WindSeeker, as has been said, is the new ride. It has a huge capacity, and is the park's new draw. Based on advertising alone, wouldn't you expect that the "big new ride" for any given year be the one that's attached to Gold Pass marketing as an early-availability ride? Or would you have them say, "New for 2011, WindSeeker! But you'll have to wait until everyone else can ride it before you get the chance." From a marketing point of view it's smart. Given that, WindSeeker will be the ERT ride this year. From a payroll / staffing point of view, it's obvious. Even if my understanding of the zones is flawed, it still remains that the park would need twice as much staffing to open two pathways to two rides in two corners of the park. If you've used the ERT as you say, you know that there are security guards at each bend in the path where curious guests may "accidentally" wander off. If that was needed in two separate directions, and two areas of the park had to be cleared by maintenance, and two separate zones had to be staffed, then you've created a logistical, payroll nightmare. The logical decision is to open another ride that is in the same vicinity. And given WindSeeker's location, the only options are Backlot, Shake Rattle and Roll, or Vortex. From a capacity standpoint alone, Vortex is obvious. From an "impressive size" standpoint, Vortex is the only real candidate as well. Believe it or not, Kings Island is not trying to take away your precious time on Diamondback and The Beast. Rather, they're trying to offer their newest, most marketed thrill ride to their most marketed pass clientele. With WindSeeker chosen, Vortex is the only sensical companion. The thing I don't get is... Diamondback and The Beast top out at a 15 minute wait on weekdays anyway... So why is this even an issue? It's pretty much ERT all day, every day considering the tremendous capacities of each ride. Those of us used to Cedar Point would kill for a 45 minute wait on Millennium or Maverick, so perhaps you don't know how good you have it? Secondly, you note that you've been to ERT eight times this year. Given that your pass paid for itself after two trips and that you've had at least six gratis, I don't know that complaints about an additional hour are justified. Especially since you seem unexcited by the notion of ERT on Vortex and WindSeeker so... Why wake up so early to go?

Exactly. Moving water does a lot less evaporating... Rivers don't often dry up. Standing water evaporates - and does a lot of other things. And correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not as if the Giant Top Spin is some massive, burning hot piece of steel that evaporates any water it comes within 15 feet of? Still, I don't know the intricacies of the Crypt or why it is the way it is. Haven't many here said moisture was to blame for the ride's demise? And yet, with the exception of its first day of operation, the fountains never actually contacted the gondola. Was it the fog, then, that really screwed it up so badly? So I don't know what limits it has in regards to water being in its "personal space." Maybe a lightly filtering pond really WOULD push it over the edge eventually?

Ironically, the Tower Gardens are a cemetery during October, and they house smokers there! But really, there are no designated smoking areas in Planet Snoopy, only near the Baby Care Center that's sort of across from the International Showplace theater. That doesn't stop people. And it appears that it's not that these people aren't informed about smoking areas, it's that they don't care. Judging by the behavior and attitude of some people, I can understand how it would be a difficult for a teenage seasonal employee to work up the courage to say something (especially given that it often appears that they'll either ignore you, or toss it on the ground then light another one 10 feet away). But I don't see why the park's stance isn't that if you are smoking outside of designated smoking areas, you will be escorted from the park without refund. Just having a policy like that would do much to deter these folks, and breaking a park rule is breaking a park rule, no different from line jumping or inappropriate clothing.

You're right. It's pretty much just a carnival. And much, much more.

The tunnel you're talking about passed towards the Diamondback plaza from the area outside the International Showplace theater. It was removed years ago, but was on the map even in 2010 (just above the "57" label): This year's map has corrected it to show what is truly there now - the multi-colored umbrella-covered tables of Planet Snoopy. Kings Dominion still has a vine trellis tunnel in the Old Virginia area, as far as I know... EDIT: Yep, here's a picture from Coaster Net of the structure at Kings Dominion in early April 2010 before the plants were placed and grown (it collapsed during the 09-10 winter under heavy snowfall and this new one had to be built):

Because Cedar Fair never shows favoritism for Cedar Point (and Knott's), right? ... EDIT: If anything, Cedar Fair has spent more time and money on Kings Island than any other park in the chain. A complete rehab of not one, not two, but three sections of the park (and counting), a new B&M hyper, a Dinosaur park with promises of additions in the coming years, and now a new announcement in August... Cedar Point has a new water ride. Again, where's the favoritism? I totally agree with the fact that Cedar Point hasn't always been favorite... But remember that Cedar Fair only recently came into ownership of the five Paramount Parks, and each has had its fair share of 'beefing up' to meet the standards that Cedar Fair has established. That is, Cedar Fair has put a lot of money into giving each park a signature steel coaster, repaving, redistributing Geauga Lake's rides, and revamping the children's areas. And since Kings Island is the flagship of the new parks, and arguably the second-in-command in the chain nationwide, it makes sense that of all the acquired parks, it has gotten the most financial investment. But it's been four seasons, and it appears that the Paramount Parks have now all been "caught up," and the playing field is now even enough that a more normal system of investment can be established. That being said, there's a new CEO in town, so what was once normal and expected may not be entirely representative of the future.

According to those here who know much more than I, we may never see the return of fog / mist / fountains on many of the rides at Kings Island due to the damage that the moisture can cause. As was mentioned, look at Backlot's splashdown (which, I think, was more due to the gigantic bubbling water pumps underneath it than the slight spray out the sides - Kings Dominion's has the splash without the pumps operating, so that is possible). Tomb Raider: The Ride was evidently ravaged by the fog and water in that room. Same with the track on Adventure Express. It's a shame though... Look at Diamondback. It's clear that when the steel is properly sealed and treated, even prolonged, forceful water exposure can have minimal effects. And while I hate to nitpick at the additions on Backlot Stunt Coaster, I have to agree. The helicopter used to fire one round, stop, and then fire a second (since originally, the first round burst the gas pipes and the second round lit that gas on fire). Now, it fires for 25 seconds nonstop, and the red flashes go off at random but repeat that same random pattern about a dozen times. I wish they'd at least go off in order front to back, to make it look like the helicopter is actually aiming well... And if the water effects could be returned, I'd die of happiness... It was a nice, spritzy, misty way to cool off on a hot day AND was a great surprise effect. But those are the things that you have to be a real heel to complain about after having gotten some nice themeing detail. Hahah. GYK, appreciative and increasingly hopeful.

I think arguing over whether or not Intamin pre-fabs are wooden coasters is foolish. They are unquestionably made of wood, just the same as the Texas Giant is steel and The Villain was wooden. The question is whether or not it deserves its own sub-classification within wooden roller coasters, or if the different composition makes it something related to, but separate from wooden roller coasters entirely. Humans tend to like categorizing. We like to think we have hierarchies and systems and levels, and that everything can be classified into neat, tidy groups. Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet? Is the word choice in the case of a pre-fabricated wooden coaster really worth discussing, much less arguing over? El Toro is made of wood. So is Son of Beast. A diamond is nothing more than carbon. So is graphite. Intamin pre-fabricated wooden coasters provide an ENTIRELY different experience from "traditional" wooden coasters, and that's what's really on trial here. Yes they are comprised of wood. So technically our world continues to have two main classifications: wood and steel. But we don't like that simplicity, so we also have sitting, standing, inverted, flying, hyper, mega, strata, giga, bobsled, 4th dimension, wild mouse, accelerator, terrain, twister, impulse, mine train coasters, and many many more. And even among wooden coasters, we have terrain, out-and-back, twister, scenic railways, figure-8, bobsled... Any title we give to Intamin's pre-fab coasters is another arbitrary word that some will agree with, some will disagree with.

Quickly skirting back to the Son of Beast not being on the map joke... While waiting in line for Firehawk a few weeks ago, I really truly witnessed a scenario many of us here would complain is possible but not actually believe: a family arguing over what the giant wooden lift-hill over yonder was... Some of the children and the father absolutely KNEW FOR A FACT that it was Adventure Express they saw looming 200 feet over the park... For simply looking at the map shows that it, indeed, is the giant wooden roller coaster in that direction. The mother and her half of the kids jokingly "bet" her respective peers that it was not, but the father and kids seemed absolutely sure that Son of Beast's lift-hill was Adventure Express. And who can blame them?! It just sounds like one of those scenarios that we all would say "Son of Beast ISN'T ON THE MAP AND IT'S GONNA CONFUSE PEOPLE." But it actually surprised me when it really happened. P.S. They asked the attendant who divides up the two Firehawk stations to settle their bet. She said it was Son of Beast, but given what we know park employees are capable of, I half expected her to get it wrong, too, and to need to step in myself!

At this point in the season, I believe that what you see is what you get. You probably won't find too many discounts or deals. And to my knowledge, last year was the first time that they offered the buy-for-next-season, use-it-this-season option, but as I recall it was only valid for ONE visit in October. There's no telling if they'll even do it this season (if you ask me, Haunt is crowded enough without that offer). The cheapest price for passes is always in the fall of the year before. Then one by one the deals stop. For a time in the fall, you can get a Gold Pass for the price of a Season Pass. Then, the Gold Pass becomes more expensive. Then it disappears entirely (as is the case now). So now, you can either get a Regular Season Pass (which does not include parking, ERT, discounts, etc. and costs $99.99) or a Platinum Pass (which includes parking, discounts, ERT, and access to ALL Cedar Fair theme parks and outdoor water parks which is $165.00), but Gold Passes are no longer offered through the park. I doubt that they are through other venues, either.

:o :o Flight of Fear. The Crypt. Flight Deck. Dinosaurs Alive. Songs on Drop Zone and Delirium. Methinks the theme is back at Kings Island. And it's only going to get better...

^ Agreed! Because let's look at this for what it is: Added ride soundtracks on Drop Zone, Delirium, The Crypt, Backlot Stunt Coaster, Flight Deck's queue, and WindSeeker. Incredible lighting package on WindSeeker. Restoration of Flight of Fear's queue and station to an INCREDIBLE degree. The Crypt's queue re-arranged with new lighting, sound, etc. and the former "lava pit" re-illuminated on the ride with thousands of LEDs. A well-landscaped, immersive Dinosaurs Alive exhibit where employees wear excavation equipment (very Paramount and theme-driven) New LEDs and sound effects on Backlot Stunt Coaster. Our Backlot Stunt Coaster has all of its flame effects working, whereas its two clones in Virginia and Ontario don't even stop at the midcourse brakes because there's nothing to see there - they simply skid through while the helicopter firing sound goes off. A flight deck painted on Flight Deck's brake run - simple, but evident of attention to detail Missiles and airplanes added to Flight Deck's queue. I am so utterly impressed. There's just no other word for it. I can't manage to express how truly hopeless I had been feeling the past couple of seasons. I love Kings Island, and I love introducing my friends to it, but each season I found myself justifying and using the phrase "used to" far more than I would have liked. "This used to have music." "This used to have water." "This used to have lighting." This used to have fire." And while things aren't PERFECT and there are still little things that would mean a lot to me (like the Tower Gardens, a few key effects on The Crypt, maybe a runway repaint in X-Base, music on International Street, etc), I am overjoyed with the fact that Kings Island is back "on track" in this department. And I suppose our warm reception of these changes is also a message to those in power: Post-Paramount Kings Island has proven that it, too, can pay attention to detail and establish some neat effects and lighting. Now, let's just hope that they can do what Paramount didn't: maintain it. Because as of now, I still feel like I need to organize a visit to the park ASAP or risk missing these effects. I shouldn't feel like that. I shouldn't worry that if I wait more than a week or two, they'll already be gone. Hopefully this is the start of a new era. And if the new CEO leads to even further changes, I will be in heaven.

And as most here will agree with, the middle row of a wooden roller coaster car generally provides the smoothest experience because it's not over top of a set of wheels. The new, lighter trains had only two rows per car, thus eliminating the option to sit in a middle row and thus eliminating the chance as that less-rough experience.

But for better or worse, this is not a business of equality, but of equity. Equality would be that each and every Cedar Fair theme park gets exactly the same investment every single year. Equity would suggest that everyone gets what they need, even if its different from what someone else needs. I expect that I will never see the day when Michigan's Adventure receives a $24 million hypercoaster. It is a small, locally-targeted, family-aimed park not unlike the old Geauga Lake before (and now, after) its Six Flags days. The attendance at the parks drives the investment. As of 2010, the top three seasonal parks owned by Cedar Fair are Canada's Wonderland, Kings Island, and Cedar Point in that order. Cedar Fair's investment has been greatest in those three parks, and I imagine it will continue to be. In purchasing the Paramount Parks, they also came into ownership of other medium-sized regional parks that they have helped "beef up," like Carowinds and Kings Dominion. Will parks like Worlds of Fun, Michigan's Adventure, and Valleyfair be invested in? Certainly. But we're talking about a much different scale I think. Prowler is a fantastic ride and is perfect for Worlds of Fun, but it was an $8,000,000 investment. That's appropriate for a park that size. The same year, Kings Island was given an addition that cost nearly three times as much, and that was entirely appropriate for a park our size. I don't think any Valleyfair fans are expecting the next Intamin giga-coaster to go there, and in my opinion, they probably shouldn't.

And if they are closing Great America, their top spin might be a fantastic transplant for ours (though I continue to hope one day our Giant Top Spin may make room for a well-themed suspended top spin placed in our current Crypt building and utilizing what's left in there).