McSalsa

Thanks. Wow, that's kind of interesting that during the Carl Lindner years Kings Island was kind of "seperated" from the other former KECO parks, only to re-unite with them under the Paramount banner in 1993. Considering how the Lindner years aren't looked back on with too much love (though they did introduce a bunch of beloved rides like the mentioned AE and Phantom Theatre) I fear what may have happened had Paramount been OK with just buying the KECO parks WITHOUT Kings Island, completely seperating them. Kings Island would not have been a pretty sight by the late 90's had things kept going downhill...Cedar Fair may have not even wanted to make the Paramount purchase since KI was all they really wanted, so Paramount Parks might still exist or would have been bought by someone else (though if CBS was still running the other parks those would have been in bad shape by now as well probably). Six Flags would have had more incentive to "beef up" Kentucky Kingdom, since they could draw guests away from a slowly dying Kings Island under Lindner...so SFKK may never have closed. Geauga Lake could probably have also survived since in this alternate universe, since no PP purchase means Cedar Fair wouldn't have suddenly gone into debt and thus wouldn't have had to kill it- though it likely would have been downsized since CF was already slowly doing that before 2006. Though I figure any rides sent out of GL would have been to Cedar Fair legacy parks instead of the former Paramount ones. Wow, to think the industry could be THAT different had Paramount NOT requested ownership of ONE park in Ohio...crazy... EDIT: Fixed spelling errors in LindNer's name. Thanks for pointing that out Terpy...

Hmm...random question, but was the B&M Invert at California's Great America also being planned in 1992 when Paramount made the purchases...if so, anyone have any idea what that was going to be called had Paramount not bought the park? (Since it was also named TOP GUN upon its 1993 debut) Or would it have also been Swoop/Thunder Road/etc?

^ Oops. My bad...Didn't know that...well we can just skip to Taft/KECO/Linder then I guess.

^ I'm actually in that same boat of enjoying every single ride I have ridden that is currently at Kings Island. The one ride I didn't enjoy much at all isn't there anymore- The Crypt- and that one actually looked like it was VASTLY superior back when it was Tomb Raider: The Ride in its early years (and that I am 95% sure I would have loved had I rode it). I did almost consider BLSC as one of my choices, but I also was kind of using the same logic that pushed Banshee over Diamondback in the CF Additions poll: location and what it did to the surrounding area. And BLSC did hurt the middle of the park's calm atmosphere (and then Diamondback came in in 2009 and did more damage here). It's a fantastic little coaster itself though...though I still think it should have gone somewhere in Action Zone instead, where it would have fit much better versus Coney Mall given the movie backlot theme that area had (and technically still does).

A little while (not too long) ago, BB1 made a poll on here about what attraction people feel was the best ride added under Cedar Fair. I thought it was a decent topic idea and had I a feeling...why not continue it in a way, but going back to another era...thus the question: What was, ride-wise, the best addition Paramount (all 3 forms- Paramount, Viacom, and CBS) added to Kings Island? Pretty simple, but I have a feeling making a choice here might be a bit tougher since Cedar Fair has had the park only 7 years now and Paramount ran it for 13. I also added a poll for this which BB1 really didn't do for his topic. I left off small flat rides and waterpark additions (to keep it a bit less clutter-y), but if you feel one of those was in fact the best ride addition, there is a "other" option. Also, for pure Paramount nostalgia purposes, all rides are named by their original names except for Xtreme Skyflyer- and that's only because that one would also be "Drop Zone" and that would cause some confusion. Enjoy the poll, and you should all know the drill by now if you don't like it...click. Back. MY OPINION ON THIS POLL... Hmm...well, while the Cedar Fair additions have 2 big stand-outs in the form of the B&M Coasters, Paramount is a tiny bit harder to choose from. I never got to experience Son of Beast or Tomb Raider (at least its "true" form) for myself so I can't choose those though I expect both to get votes. The front-runners for me are, in order of debut: TOP GUN, Flight of Fear, Drop Zone, and Delirium...and based on those, my pick is... Flight of Fear. While I've heard it was very bad when it debuted, the 2001 train modifications did wonders for it, and as of now it's my favorite steel coaster at Kings Island that is not a B&M. Add the fact it is well-themed even today, and helped push launched coasters into a new era, it gets my pick.

My votes: Firehawk: 8 out of 10 A decent, fairly cheap major coaster addition to the park. It was a style of coaster the park lacked at the time, and it's a good ride. Too bad it's capacity stinks though. WindSeeker: 6 out of 10 A good ride, and I enjoyed it, but I deduct points for the park's sake due to all the issues the ride had its first few years. While there were no major mechanical problems in 2014, wind remains an enemy of this attraction. Would have been a 8 if not for these problems. Still a pretty decent addition to a lacking flat ride lineup, though. What Type of Addition I'd Like to See Most: Other. See below. Section of Park that needs new ride: Soak City With Planet Snoopy getting some love in 2015, I'd like to see the waterpark get some in 2016. The 2012 Soak City "expansion" didn't add any new slides, so you have to go back to 2004's Boomerang Bay debut to find the last time Soak City had new slides- and it's 10 years later now, those slides are now outdated and there is much cooler new stuff out. And there is room in the waterpark as well. With other Cedar Fair properties seeing waterpark upgrades, Kings Island could very well be on the list for some love here. A new dark ride, still more flats, or some new paint for Racer (and a re-track here) & Diamondback wouldn't hurt though.

Very interesting... do you know if they will do this again? Or was it just for Paramount to show it off before selling it? It actually did come back for 2013 and 2014. In 2014, instead of Son of Beast, since that had been demolished by 2014, Banshee & Diamondback got a backstage tour along with Beast. Not sure if they went past "The Graveyard" though. Info from... http://coasterbuzz.com/Content/BeastBuzz

Based on the Red Bull sponsorship and all that seen on the Bike, I think this was done with park permission as a stunt. Red Bull has been known to do that. And while it seems kinda crazy...most of their stunts are. I would also figure EMT's were on standby nearby just in case. As for info on the specific coaster: it's a wooden racing coaster in Mexico called Montana Rusa, at La Feria de Chaputepec (stated in the link above). The ride is 110 feet tall- the same as Kings Island's Beast- and opened in 1964 as the tallest roller coaster in the world. It is also 4,000 feet long, and is a racing coaster.

I am pretty sure the King Cobra track pieces were photographed during a Beastbuzz backstage tour in 2006. See this video:

^ That's what I've heard: King Cobra was built with inferior steel compared to Skyrider and Shockwave, and thus metal fatigue caused it to be forced into retirement much quicker. For comparison...the other KECO TOGO Stand-Ups... King Cobra (1984-2001): 17 years Skyrider (1985-2014): 29 years Shockwave (1986-2014+): 28 years+ (still operational) Also, while doing research on this, apparently someone has purchased Skyrider according to RCDB. It is moving to a park in Italy called Cavallino Matto, according to the site. Hmm, so it's time may not be completely up...which makes King Cobra look even "worse" in comparison. Skyrider's current status according to RCDB... http://rcdb.com/12069.htm (Slight edit based on Terpy's comment below for Shockwave's age.)

Here are some pics of King Cobra from RCDB to help: And then after it was demolished... Based on these, and other images, I am 99% sure what you see in the Google Earth images is in fact the remains of King Cobra.

Actually, I just found this. S&S-Sansei Technologies breathes new life into the tried and true Arrow Mine Train Coaster popularized by Disney in the ‘60s and ‘70s with a new body style that is lighter in weight and an exciting layout the entire family can enjoy. From the first drop over the hill, the Mine Train delivers belly-tickling drops and hills, speedy curves and exciting banked turns. Link: http://www.engineeringexcitement.com/product/mine-train/ Wow- OK, since S&S did buy Arrow, this would make this the true "successor" to the old Arrow Mine Trains. Also from that page, it seems one of these would fit perfectly with my Holiday World Mine Train idea. And they are moving a ride to the Thunderbird plaza? Makes some sense, since if they built it all as-is Thunderbird would be the ONLY ride back there and it looks like it'd be a bit of a walk from the current Thanksgiving Plaza section where Giraffica was to it. So putting something else back there to help populate the area a bit more makes some sense and could possibly open up something elsewhere in the park for a future new attraction. My only question is...what will go back there? Revolution? Liberty Launch? Hallowswings? The possibilities are seemingly endless...

As much as I love B&M, and while they do seem to have their stuff together, if somehow they got a pure strangehold on the steel coaster industry (IE all the other companies ragequit or something) it could be bad as then you'd have a Monopoly and then B&M could just make lame rides and parks would pretty much have no choice if they wanted steel coasters. Thankfully, there are still a few companies like Mack & Premier (and others) that can still give B&M a run for their money depending on what the park wants (B&M offers a lot so far but not EVERYTHING). Though B&M is likely still going to be first on the list of what the park thinks about when deciding on a new coaster, unless the park wants something B&M doesn't make (like a Wild Mouse type coaster, or a Water Coaster, etc- B&M has yet to try those coaster types) or some other company shows Holiday World something that looks really, really cool and the park gets on board with it (which can happen). Though to be fair, one of my ideas for a ride Holiday World could add- and they still can- would be a Mine Train coaster (Arrow may be gone but Vekoma still makes them), if simply to see how they theme it- that park goes a bit crazy with themes at times.

Wow. I know the coaster is only just over 3,000 feet long and all and so far the weather has been nice, and they started early, but to think it (this part of construction) is finished so soon...I know it's a B&M and they are famous for finishing projects on time, but I can't help but be impressed. I could see Thunderbird start testing, weather permitting, as early as February. Maybe even January but that'd be a stretch due to weather (January=Supah Cold). I am 99.9% sure it will be ready by late April when Holiday World opens. Great job Holiday World & B&M. But now, the vicious cycle has begun. Thunderbird will likely open to rave reviews from the GP, and Holiday World will like it and make money off it, and so they will decide to build buy ANOTHER B&M at some point for their 2nd major steel coaster (I could see HW building a Invert or Floorless at some point in the future)...and the cycle starts over...heck, B&M seemingly already has Cedar Fair firmly in their "grasp"... make a product that pleases your customer, and your customers will keep coming back to you so long as the product is good...

Hmm...Kings Island's best Cedar Fair addition. Forgive me for going a bit mainstream but Banshee for me too. The post above me by Delirium13 reminded me why and swayed my choice over Diamondback- great ride and addition, but the destruction of the woods and trees was a bit much, plus Banshee did successfully replace the failed Son of Beast which was no small feat. In fact, random thought: it was hyped up before Diamondback's opening that "it will be in the woods and stuff and be awesome like The Beast!". Well, due to the destruction of all those trees they did to build it, that was a lie- Diamondback doesn't really "feel" in the woods much. The Beast sure as heck does.

Yeah, OK- it doesn't need to be smaller. Though to be honest, Mack does offer various sizes of Wild Mice as well- the larger models being called "Large Park" models with higher capacity. (Aka what Knott's got)

Hmm...two Wild Mouse-type coasters, one larger and spinning in Rivertown...and a smaller non-spinning model for Planet Snoopy. I like the concept. One question: if Cedar Fair does add a Wild Mouse, I'd expect they would go with a Mack since that's who they went with for Knott's recent installation. (Looks up if Mack has a spinning coaster model and...) Well, they sure do- and 4 cars per train. Hmm, dunno if it's really "Wild Mouse" style but hey it could work.

One thing I'd like to comment on: walking into Carowinds when Fury 325 is complete and open is going to be epic and in-your-face, as you're going to be walking straight between a massive B&M Hyper and Giga located smack dab in the front of the park...meanwhile in the back of the park everything besides their observation tower and WindSeeker will look wimpy in comparison. Just imagine this picture (found via Google search) after Fury 325 is completed, for example, and you are in the parking lot...

OK- I've looked into this a bit more and have come up with some thoughts. Looking at pics of Steel Hawg and comparing with Polercoaster, I can see where the "like an El Loco" part comes from via the layout and elements, though Polercoaster will have bigger cars and the track looks sturdier since it has a spine (it looks similar to Flight of Fear's track a bit actually) where Steel Hawg and the El Loco's do not. The animated trains from Polercoaster also seem to have different restraints where Steel Hawg's do look a little painful. So it will probably range from "a bit rough-ish" but could be as bad as "OWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW'. Doubt it will be B&M smooth. Hopefully it's fairly smooth though, because it looks like a fairly long ride. Speed will also be a factor: Steel Hawg, an El Loco, goes 41mph. This ride is claimed to do somewhere between 65-70 if I recall. That extra 20mph+ would add a LOT of roughness as the faster a coaster goes the more noticeable "defects" in the track become evident. (For proof of this: compare Adventure Express, at 35mph max, to the 55mph max Vortex...both have slight kinks in the trackwork...) While the idea of a 500-foot+ coaster and layout for the ride do look awesome, making me hope it works, I do still have to raise some specific concerns (that have mostly already been mentioned): -Could be rough (see above) -Will need to send cars out quickly to have anywhere near good capacity, due to the small 1-car trains even if there are 8 riders per car -Could have maintenance problems And I can think of a ride already from the recent past that had record-shattering stats that awe'd people at first, but because it had all 3 of those problems... ...yeah, let's not go through that whole debacle again...even if it's not at Kings Island this time. Though what I hope is this- Polercoaster is actually fairly smooth, has good capacity so the line isn't too crazy, and is fairly reliable. If that happens then I'd even expect Cedar Fair will start looking at them (and part of me thinks Six Flags would go crazy and build lots of them for some reason if the ride turns out to be good). Though even in the worst case scenario, I-Drive will at least get an observation tower since that part of the "attraction" shouldn't have any major issues.

I have a question: does the Gravity Group know NoLimits 2 is out? They seem to still be using NL1 for some reason...do they have slow PC's or something?

OK...not only is I-Drive in Orlando building a 570-foot roller coaster, but also a Star Flyer even bigger than New England Skyscreamer and a 400-foot Ferris Wheel? Wow. That is kind of crazy to build so many giant rides... Also I read a comment on some other site (I think it was TPR- I was checking out all their IAAPA pics and videos) that made me think: the guy said Polercoaster "looks like a 570-foot El Loco." For those who has been to Indiana Beach, Steel Hawg is an El Loco. So imagine a 570-foot version of that. Same manufacturer and they do similar things layout-wise so it is somewhat believe-able.

WOW...that is very, very nice. Something on this level would blow away Boo Blasters, and if put in the old building, would be an actual worthy successor to Enchanted Voyage/Smurfs/Phantom Theatre. Not really too much more to say other than that. Six Flags may well have hit gold with these dark rides. Also, on the topic title, that Animatronic is no joke. EDIT: Title has been fixed so line above now makes no sense. The poster forgot the "r" in Joker's name.

There's an ad for it on Facebook now that states this sale is indeed just that- and it ends next Thursday at Midnight. Pretty decent way for the park to make some money IMO, but I'm smart enough to either go for another season pass or buy a Kroger ticket and visit during a May or late August weekday.

^ Would make sense. Though it would need to run a lot of those 1-car trains and send them out fairly often to have enough capacity at a major park though- especially given the 500'+ foot height would draw people to it. Or they could revamp the design for multiple cars per train in the future if possible (and if they can run multiple trains that way it could actually become very HIGH capacity). Edit: Corrected by Terpy once again.

Well, that actually looks insanely fun based on the POV...it would likely need a lot of trims (570 feet is going to give it insane speed if left unchecked and that would make the g-forces too high for riders), and I'd hope it's not too rough (will likely be rougher than a B&M but shouldn't be too bad). My main concern- and why I don't think you'll see one of these at Cedar Point or Kings Island in this form- is capacity. One car, 8 riders per car, and there didn't seem to be many MCBR sections. OK for a small park charging $10 or more per ride, but at Cedar Point this would be a 5-hour wait every single weekend in July unless they raise the capacity...and capacity seems to be a pretty big priority for modern Cedar Fair's flagship roller coasters. Part of the reason there have been so many B&M's as of late. Overall: Looks incredible, but in this form not good for a big park. Though it could perhaps be tweaked...