McSalsa

Poll Updated and Banshee added.

A bit off-topic, but I found this video on Youtube of a past Holiday World coaster announcement from 1999...it's for Legend of course. I figured this would be interesting for comparison purposes to the new ride's announcement...

^ Yeah, Big Droppy Thing @ SFGadv and Lex Luthor @ SFMM- while not Gyro Drops- do kind of put this argument to rest as they are so much bigger (400+ feet) than ANY Gyro Drop...

Well, according to what I looked up, Scream @ Heide Park is 338 feet tall...to the top of the HUGE antenna on the top. This picture should explain it: However, according to that same source, the ride never takes riders higher than 233 feet, and the drop itself is only 217 feet. The Drop Tower at Kings Island stands 315 feet to its highest point, but has a MUCH smaller antenna on top and while the actual maximum height of the riders is unknown, the drop (not counting the brake section) is 264 feet. So while Scream is taller physically thanks to the antenna, it has a smaller actual drop. But the X-Factor in all this is Kings Dominion's Drop Tower- it's only 305 feet tall, but has a 272 foot drop. So KI's Drop Tower is kinda screwed for this record either way- Scream is taller physically thanks to a huge antenna and Kings Dominion's has a bigger drop.

Hmm...biggest investment ever. B&M-looking footers spotted. Possible inversions...though these hints don't do too much since the vast majority of B&M's line-up outside of the hyper & giga coasters (which I assume Holiday World isn't getting) feature inversions. You have... -Classic Sit Down (not likely since these are rare and seemingly have been replaced by the Floorless models) -Stand-Up (likely not happening since this "fad" has passed) -Floorless (possible since there isn't one in the entire region) -Inverted (possible but KI just got one...) -Dive (Also possible and would likely be the tallest ride at Holiday World- surpassing Voyage- if it does happen, also would be the first of its kind in the US not at a Busch Gardens) -Wing Rider (very possible since these are "all the rage" right now) -Launched (would be a first for B&M, possible as well) -4th Dimension (If Holiday World is the first park to do one of these, consider me suprised, but it's possible) However, one thing is certain- nearly all of these would mesh well with the 3 wooden coasters already at Holiday World, as many B&M's are known for being smooth and graceful- a sharp contrast to the CCI/GG woodies.

Also, in the link a few posts above, the first video (which was the on-ride POV if my Youtube feed was correct) has been made private for some reason...

I also recall the park stating a while back that Banshee had given 500,000+ rides and was the most ridden ride in the park so far this year (which it should be as it is the big new ride). And this was like a month or so ago. So, under 30 minute waits are a sign of the ride's high capacity and not really lack of popularity... This news pleases me because if it's true, then Banshee joins the list of "Crowded Day Bail-Out" coasters along with Vortex, Bat, Adventure Express, and Racer- thus you have 5 fun, thrilling rides you can get in on a single day at Kings Island even when crowds are at their worst. Though you're still going to have to make some cuts with rides like Diamondback, Beast, Flight of Fear, Firehawk, BLSC, and Invertigo which are either low capacity or super popular or sometimes even both as they will eat 1 hour plus easy on crowded days...and FOF & Firehawk often get near or over 2+ hours...

There's a great shot on this page, by a user named LogBur: http://themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55643&start=5100

A possibly large B&M at Holiday World? Can they afford that? If they can, count me a bit suprised...and those footers do kind of look similar to what we saw at Banshee last year.

I love Beast and I didn't ride the thing until 2009...and I can still see the ride being unique as not too many other coasters have copied it (the only thing I can even think of that comes close would be The Ultimate @ Lightwater Valley in England, or some of those single-rider "alpine" coasters and even then all those are steel rides and Beast is wooden). I would guess the main thing that drives some modern enthusiasts away from Beast is that it is NOT what they'd expect. Most top-rated coasters these days become top-rated for being incredibly aggressive with twists, turns, airtime, or g-forces. A good example of one of these rides is The Voyage @ Holiday World- it's a ride that has won award after award after award because it aggressively hits riders with strong forces, dishes out tons of airtime, and is seemingly non-stop action for around 3 minutes. Beast is also a top-rated coaster, but for completely different reasons- and thus when modern enthusiasts ride Beast for the first time, not knowing what to expect they have this image of a ride that's going to be non-stop action like most of the other top-ranked wooden coasters...and Beast is NOT "non-stop action", as it is more about great use of terrain and pacing that starts off slow but builds up in the middle section- though it does tease a non-stop action coaster at the start with the first drop until the brake shed and the helix is very intense. And then they get off and are like "WTF WAS DAT IN DA MIDDLE!?!? THE RIDE JUST WENT STRAIGHT AND HAD SOME GENTLE TURNS AND NO AIRTIME WHATSOEVER DIS RIDE SUX!!!". Though if you're a fan of pacing and all that, that middle section ends up being build-up- an ever increasing sense of danger as the ride slowly gains speed- that leads into the final helix and makes the helix even more awesome. Also- the ride probably was a bit better with buzz bars and no seat divider and all that back in the day, as all that stuff would have allowed you to slide around a bit and would have enhanced the out-of-control feeling. But the ride hasn't really seemed to have been "nerfed" THAT much... PS: I do also enjoy the non-stop action coasters BTW.

Well OK...here's mine, in reverse order... Honorable Mentions (rides that I enjoy a lot but they missed Top 10) in no order: BLSC, White Water Canyon, Firehawk, Monster, Viking Fury, Zephyr, Eiffel Tower, Surf Dog Also Note: I have yet to ride WindSeeker, or many of the past now-defunct KI rides since my first visit in recent years was in 2009 and only Son of Beast (never rode) and The Crypt (sucked) have gone defunct since then. So they won't be on this list. #10. Adventure Express While I am mostly a thrill junkie now, Adventure Express- while a family ride- does pack solid thrills for a mine train coaster. Add the great scenery and theming, and the ending which I actually do enjoy (it is basically a joke ending in my eyes) and you have a ride I do have no problem riding over and over- which can likely also be said of the rest of this list. The high capacity is also a positive, as waits are rarely more than 20 minutes, making this a ride I'll hit up 90% of the time when I visit KI. #9. Racer Racer is a fun ride, but only ranks #9 due to the fact I have kind of found it inconsistent at times. It's never given me a truly horrible ride, but the amount of airtime seems to vary from "none" to "lots" and the roughness is just as unpredictable- it can be butter smooth or (almost) painfully rough. However, when Racer is running at its best- which was the case on my ride on Red Racer on May 5th, 2012- it is truly an awesome ride. I kinda wish it'd run like that a bit more often. Red Racer, BTW, is usually smoother and more consistent IMO. #8. The Bat A ride buried all the way on the far side of Kings Island and a long walk from the next closest ride, which'd be Banshee, The Bat is still worth the walk. While it's not incredibly tall (78 feet according to RCDB), it feels a lot faster than it's claimed 50mph thanks to its intense and violent swinging. It is also located in fairly wooded terrain with good scenery around it, and the view from right before you drop is incredible since it is on the edge of the park and thus you can see everything- if only for a second. The ride's only real flaw? It ends too quickly, and the station still looks like an aircraft carrier even though that is no longer the ride's theme. #7. Drop Tower And we come to the first flat ride to make this list! Drop Tower is a really simple concept. You get on, you go up, and you drop. What makes this ride intense and scary, however, is its sheer size. When a 200-foot drop would make many squirm, this ride is 315 feet tall with a 264 foot drop- and that's NOT counting the 30 or so feet of brakes, so riders are actually closer to 290-300 feet up at the top! And with a max drop speed of 67mph, you drop fast. The view is also incredible. #6. Vortex Kings Island's answer to the coaster wars in the 1980's, a time when how many inversions a coaster had seemingly determined its thrill factor. With 6 inversions, Vortex sends riders upside down numerous times, and it also boasts still-impressive-in-2014 height and speed, standing at 148 feet tall and reaching 55mph. Capacity is also a huge plus, as waits usually are less than 30 minutes even on peak weekends. The one downside to this ride would be the jerky transitions- a common problem among nearly all Arrow looping coasters of the era- but if you can handle those, you will get a great ride. Also, sit in 5-1. #5. Delirium A HUGE twist on the classic "frisbee" carnival ride, the world's first giant frisbee is nothing less than huge. With a capacity of 50 riders per cycle, and a maximum swing height of 138 feet, Delirium also offers its riders a comfortable ride and even has airtime. With the addition of Banshee in 2014, riders now get to "kick" the new B&M Invert as it is located right next door. My favorite flat ride in the entire park- and also my current favorite flat ride period since I've only also been to Holiday World recently. So #4 and higher are all roller coasters... #4. Flight of Fear The world's first LIM launched coaster is a very thrilling ride. The experience seems to begin even before the ride, as the Q-Line is themed very well and a cheesy-yet-fun video plays. Then you have the ride itself- 0 to 54 in 4 seconds flat, with 4 inversions and numerous turns, dips, and bunny hops in near total darkness (save some dim colored lights in the building). The last inversion- a corkscrew- catches riders off guard for a epic finale. It's easily the most "violent" of all the coasters in the park. It's too bad the low capacity and the fact it's next to the also-low-capacity Firehawk often drive the waits past 90 minutes, but since it has that pre-ride video and great theming, I'll wait it out every now and then. Hope the ride recovers from the recent incidents it seems to be having and can re-open. #3. Diamondback The "popular" and mainstream choice when you usually ask someone- especially the GP- their favorite ride in the park. I can kinda see why too- it has fantastic airtime, is usually smooth, and has the most comfortable seats in the entire park. It's also HUGE at 230 feet tall, and fast at 80mph. Though I do find 2 other rides in the park to be slightly better- it's pretty close though. #2. Banshee The new-for-2014 coaster was hyped up a lot this offseason, and while many rides don't live up to the hype when they open...this one did, at least IMO. After waiting 4 1/2 hours for my first ride on opening day, I got off thinking "DAT WUZ AWESOME!!!". Though I would perfer to never have to wait that long again. Banshee packs 7 awesome inversions, and with a 68mph top speed, it flies through its course- except for the slow roll, which offers a great change of pace and is a awesome finale- which means you get good G-Forces in seemingly every one. The theming is also pretty good here. Banshee is a incredible ride, but falls short of #1 for 1 reason only...it kinda has to go against a 35-year legend... #1. The Beast 35 years is a LONG time for a roller coaster. By that point, most steel coasters have been torn down, and it's rare for a ride to still be ranked among the world's best even 10 or 15 years after its debut. But The Beast opened in 1979 as one of the top-ranked wooden coasters in the world, and it remains one of those in 2014. It even still has a world record as the longest wooden coaster in the world! Let's see if Banshee has that inverted coaster length record in 35 years...likely not. Beast is a great ride during the day, but if I was basing this on day rides alone, to be honest I'd probably rank Banshee and Diamondback higher than Beast and FOF would be really close. But what pushes Beast to the #1 spot? Legendary Night Rides. The ride's location makes for a very dark, fast, intense-feeling ride through the woods where you usually cannot see 5 feet in front of you for most of the ride. The tunnels become pitch black. And the helix goes from awesome to incredible. For a Beast night ride, there is no line too long I won't wait through (2 hours? HA! ME GET IN LINE ANYWAY!)- I love the experience that much. Well, that's my Top 10 rides at Kings Island...

(Looks at poll) GASP! Well, all the rides have at least 1 vote for them now, except for one... Wow, who would have thought Racer of all rides would be the LEAST hated of all the Kings Island coasters (at least according to this poll)?

And it's been officially announced... http://www.weather.com/travel/travel-pro/orlando-roller-coaster-worlds-tallest-20140610 And some more renders... http://www.designboom.com/architecture/tallest-skyscraper-rollecoaster-orlando-06-11-2014/ One thing I heard that neither article mentions is that the coaster will supposedly feature a inversion over 500 feet in the air. Top Speed is supposed to be 65mph. However, I'd be a bit worried about capacity- even with 8 people per car or something, it looks to use single car trains, so if they are to have good capacity at all they'll need lots of cars running at once- or charge an arm and a leg to ride.

^ To kinda put that in perspective- the other rides I think about when I think "Popular and well-known coasters of the 1970s" besides Beast are things like Arrow Corkscrews (usually under 100 feet high and with no more than 3 inversion at the time), Revolution @ SFMM, Gemini @ Cedar Point, Loch Ness Monster @ Busch Gardens Williamsburg, and a ton of out-and-back or racing wooden coasters that opened in the wake of Racer @ Kings Island, which itself was still HUGE in 1979. Even a lot of stuff built during the 1980's- save the giant wooden racing coaster American Eagle @ SFGam which opened in 1981- wasn't really on the scale of Beast until towards the end when you got Magnum XL-200 @ Cedar Point, Hercules @ Dorney Park, and the Arrow "Mega" Loopers such as Vortex began to show up. Another factor I think may well be modern wooden coasters are starting to get really "aggressive" with sharper twists and turns, in addition to bigger drops (on a very small handful of coasters- Beast's biggest 141 foot drop is still huge even by modern wooden coaster standards), making them feel even faster than they are, versus Beast's "straight track that goes slightly downhill in wooded terrain" approach it takes for most of the ride.

325 feet...that would make this the tallest traditional lift hill coaster in the world if that's correct, beating Steel Dragon 2000 and surely drawing massive amount of attention to Carowinds. If they really want to make it "The Cedar Point of the South" and tap further into that potentially huge market, such a coaster would likely be a great start. It's also a height I doubt Kinzel, who really seemed to favor Cedar Point, would ever have built to at any park not named Cedar Point since it would also surpass Millennium Force. But alas, Ouimet is NOT Kinzel...

^ Send in the uber-strong muscle dudes?

And Six Flags has posted this video now... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWECYmGpqG4#t=86

^ For the record, I'm pretty (99%) sure Kings Island and other parks also have workers who get up very early and walk the track of their wooden coasters every morning. I have to give mad respect to anyone who has that job- it can't be easy, and they are responsible for keeping the roller coasters they work on safe. And considering how incredibly rare roller coaster accidents are, they are overall doing a great job...or at least it seems that way.

TBH, back when we didn't know the Timberliners were not going to work, I was hoping they'd make the ride just a bit more comfortable but still have that crazy intense wooden feeling- even if roughness wasn't effected, the Timberliners did look a LOT more comfortable than the PTC trains and I thought could have made the final spaghetti bowl section much less painful, while maintaining the fun parts about it. And they were supposed to reduce maintenance costs, which would be good because #1- It would have saved Holiday World money which they could pass on to the consumer or spent on other rides, and #2- It'd make The Voyage last longer since it would need fewer repairs and that's usually what eventually does a ride in later in its life. Sadly, the Timberliners didn't work though- which has me a bit worried for The Voyage long-term because it seems to need a LOT of upkeep...and what if Holiday World changes ownership, which could very well happen? Would a Six Flags or Cedar Fair possibly be willing to maintain a wooden coaster THAT much? Or even if there isn't an ownership change, Holiday World needs to grow and add new attractions to stay competitive, but those new attractions also cost money to upkeep...and they can no longer afford to keep such an insane wooden coaster around because of this (or the re-opening of Kentucky Kindgom digs into their profits to much, etc etc. could also in theory cause this)? I do hope the ride does stick around for years to come though, and hope it stays good for as long as possible. Though based on how bad it got in 2011 alone- a mere 5 years after its debut- keeping The Voyage enjoyable long-term is going to be one heck of a challenge for Holiday World.

Here's a video where you can see the offseason track work done to Voyage- including clear shots of entire track sections being removed for replacement. It's pretty cool and thus I felt like showing it here...

The situation is a bit different than from what Son of Beast went through- that ride needed its trains switched (and its loop removed) due to MAJOR problems with the design of the trains themselves. Premier Rides, who had never worked with any kind of wooden coaster before, designed them to be "the ultimate wooden coaster trains" and ended up making them weigh far too much. Combine this with Son of Beast being a 78mph wooden coaster with turns that go way into the air, and you have a recipe for disaster- and that's what happened when in 2006 a vertical support broke from stress causing the track to dip a few inches and it ended up injuring 27 riders. Thus the original trains had to go, but the loop did as well because of this even though that part of the ride was seemingly the one that never had any issues. The PTC trains Voyage uses are actually pretty good, but they have limits, and The Voyage was really pushing them with is height, 67mph speed, and the incredibly sharp and banked turns it does. The Timberliners were actually designed for Voyage, and even have wheels that turn with the track and such, but for whatever reason they ran into problems when actually using the trains (possibly because when Voyage was originally designed it was with the PTC trains in mind) and thus eventually had to just give up the project and stick with PTC trains+extra upkeep. Holiday World's wooden coaster "cats" actually go and replace entire track sections on The Voyage each offseason (for at least the last few years anyhow) when a "normal" wooden coaster just needs its first 2 layers of wood or so swapped out. The ride's very lucky to have a park so dedicated to maintaining it- if this were at a Six Flags or something with a bunch of other rides, it'd probably be neglected and become like the Old Texas Giant- a former great wooden coaster that fell from glory and became awful, and it would likely do so very quickly given its size and intensity. Instead it still remains one of the world's best wooden coasters in most polls, though it seems more and more are recognizing the ride's current issues.

Raven and Legend are actually both to have two trains- they'll apparently only use one though if they don't think it's going to be crowded to reduce wear & tear. Voyage originally opened with 3, but then the Timberliner fiacso happened and they sold 2 of their trains thinking they would have the new Timberliners ready in 2010, but they didn't and ended up having to buy a used PTC train (after using a Raven train on Voyage in 2010). It's only had 2 trains since. Oh, and the Timberliner Fiasco, FYI, was that Holiday World was supposed to get Timberliner trains in 2010 to put on The Voyage and hopefully smooth the ride out a bit. However they didn't work in 2010, so they were delayed until 2011, and then 2012, then 2013...then they finally got canned and Holiday World just decided to stick with PTC trains. Another ride, Hades 360 (formerly Hades) at Mt. Olympus in Wisconsin did convert to Timberliners and according to reviews, they did nothing to help with the roughness on that ride whatsoever, so the whole thing seems like it was a big waste of the park's time and energy. Glad you enjoyed your trip- BTW, I agree on your Voyage review about it being rough & still fun. I will still say it though: I personally like Legend over Voyage.

^ For the record, when I rode BLSC last it did have the helicopter attack scene and music and all that, just no fire at the end. Though that was a month ago now...

It worked for me on April 26th -- My last visit. I need to get back to that place. Maybe they took it out due to the Flight of Fear incidents? That actually makes a lot of sense. I can't believe I didn't put two and two together. Uhh- the BLSC fire was shut off well before the first Flight of Fear incident. I rode it on May 13th- before FOF screwup #1 even happened- and the fire was off. It was there opening day though.

^ Banshee and Racer also seem to be rides no one hates. So the brand-new B&M Invert, Classic Woodie, and Arrow Mine Train are all rides that seemingly everyone at least likes more than 1 other coaster in the park.