McSalsa

Hmm...I really wish I could have more of an opinion on this topic, but having only been to 3 parks (Kings Island, Holiday World, and Indiana Beach WAY back in '99) my experience with these two is very limited. Only 2 B&M coasters, both at KI, and no Intamin coasters period (though I have been on several flat rides and water rides they built)...this is part of the reason I really want to get up to Cedar Point (3 more B&M's and 4 Intamins- in fact looking at it, they are really the ONLY park in the region that has a large Intamin coaster selection...)... However, I can clearly see where I'd want to go if I was a park owner. Intamin's recent issues with Maverick (needed a section of track replaced prior to opening), Pilgrims Plunge (closed after less than 5 years), Intimidator 305 (needed modifications in only its 2nd season, cable broke after only 3 years of use), Perilous Plunge (removed, fatal accident), Zumanjaro (cannot run alongside Kingda Ka, lowering the capacity of both rides), and Falcon's Fury (numerous issues and a heavily delaying opening) do not at all make them appealing if I was a park owner. Meanwhile, the only problem I can think B&M has even had would be the Wing Coaster restraints...which according to most has been fixed with at least Gatekeeper & Banshee. Though as a rider, I have enjoyed every Intamin and B&M creation I have been on so far. Then again so far, outside of The Crypt & a Roll-O-Plane at a carnival (OUCH! Most painful ride I ever took ever. Worse than 2011 Voyage. By far.), I have liked everything.

Just to be fair, Old-Fashioned Hades was really only doing well on that poll probably because you don't need to ride a coaster that year to rate it and it was probably still getting votes/ratings for its early performances before it got super rough. By the time they did the Hades 360 transition, I heard it had already become super rough, but what this means is the Timberliners didn't work at all at reducing roughness. Though Gwazi also suggests Millennium Flyers alone do not fix overly-rough woodies either...

The new Red & White paintjob, even from just that 1 released photo, should be gorgeous.

I would agree on Starting to Decode 2014. I had been on the site a few years by then (joined in Spring 2009) as that one was RIDICULOUSLY huge. It was a time when you visited KIC, and then came back 5 minutes later and that thread had 20+ new posts already it seemed. So much came out of that one thread. Honorable Mentions from my time here on KIC would be... -The various Son of Beast threads...however not one really sticks out since there were several of them, which kind of hurt their chances. -TOPGUN1993's countdown to opening day threads with the retro KI pictures. Any of them. These were awesome. -The standing within 3' of 1974 (or something like that) thread...yeah, I really enjoy looking at pictures of Kings Island from before my first visit in 2000 (also 2001-2008 since I never visited during those years either) -The Banshee construction thread. In a sense, this was the sequel to "Decoding 2014"...

Holy Cow that's one epic RMC. If Cedar Point ever did this, they would likely have the best RMC to date (long, lots of airtime and drops, and numerous inversions). Which would also likely have a great shot at topping the Mitch Hawker steel coaster poll (since this looks far more epic than NTG which ranked #3 already) and would also end Intamin's winning streak at having the #1 ride in said poll every year. The need for a new wooden coaster would increase though since this would reduce the park to just Blue Streak in that category, so they'd probably also want to build a GCI a few years later or something as well. I'd personally call that ride Cyclone...for nostalgia reasons... Also- I noticed several other CP coasters in the background. Millennium Force, TTD, Magnum, Maverick, etc. I have to ask- were those scenery, or actual working rides themselves? Because if the latter, then NL2 just got even more awesome than it already is... Edit: Re-watching said video, I saw a Maverick train go by, so at least it appears to be an actual working coaster...

^ Huh...didn't realize SFGadv had a Frisbee at one point. Now that you pointed that out I see that error and why they likely won't get one...then again I have seen some of this guy's videos and he does make those seemingly fairly often. Or outlandish claims like "Cedar Point will probably add a Polercoaster as their next coaster!"...Under Matt Ouimet...and when nearly everything since 2008 has been B&M save I-305 coaster wise...

Hmm...I could agree with most of it, save 2016 and 2020. While SFGadv does need that "classic" wooden coaster now that Rolling Thunder's gone, I'm not sure if Six Flags will add it based on how much they seem to be in love with RMC ATM. And while a Frisbee-Type ride could work in 2020, I don't think it would be HUSS- probably Zamperla or something. I also think the Wing Coaster/4D would come sooner, so perhaps switch 2016 and 2019... I can easily see the 2017 addition to the park working well though. That one seemed to fit very well AND would make tons of sense. Edit: I just realized 3 out of these 5 things would also be good Kings Island additions- the Dark Ride, New Wooden Coaster, and Waterpark additions. A B&M Wing Coaster or S&S 4D would be new for the park, though I'd think with Cedar Fair you'd wanna swap that for "B&M Giga Coaster". Though we already have a Frisbee...

To be honest, its kind of picking your poison between the 2. S&S have had pretty bad failures as well (Hypersonic, their launch coaster at Nuremberg's racetrack that was supposed to set the speed record but only manages 99 mph because its air tank exploded). I would still be slightly more trusting of S&S, but not by much over Intamin. Huh...yeah, looking at it again, that's true. I also assume this was a "we want a crazy roller coaster for our tower" so they put it out to see which companies would build it. And I kinda see how only INTAMIN and S&S would line up for a project like this- B&M wouldn't touch something like this with a 35-foot pole, and this doesn't seem like something Mack Rides or Gerstlauer would do either. Vekoma typically does cloned looping coasters or family rides. Premier also has never done anything anywhere near this scale. So that leaves S&S and Intamin...and of the two, since both would give reliability issues more than likely, I think I'd do the same as SkyPlex and go INTAMIN- at least then when the ride's working it shouldn't be uber-rough and could be very fun (INTAMIN's rides typically rank far higher than S&S's on most polls that have been taken). Plus since INTAMIN has worked on Zumanjaro and Lex Luthor, SkyPlex also gets a Drop Ride... which hopefully should work fairly well since this style of Drop Tower is no longer anything new (since both Lex Luthor & Zumanjaro predate it). SkyPlex will be a very interesting "park" to watch in the next few seasons- mainly to see if these crazy rides even work. If they do, then coasters will be able to reach a new level. If not...well, they can go sit next to Son of Beast and Hypersonic XLC and all the other crazy-but-failed rides of the past...

INTAMIN? Well, while based on the designer and manufacturer I assume the ride will be thrilling and intense, and probably much smoother than what it would have been as an S&S, reliability of both the coaster and Drop Tower likely won't be very good, especially since this is a first of its kind prototype based on INTAMIN's recent track record. I Expect lots of breakdowns in the early years. I also now really don't expect one of these at a Cedar Fair park, at least so long as Matt Ouimet is in charge.

IMO, last year such a seat on The Racer was rougher than 6-3 on The Beast. I can believe this. Last year, my one ride on Racer was far rougher than usual, and very bumpy. Beast on the other hand gave some of the smoothest rides I've ever gotten on it- whoever did that retrack did a great job on it, and KI should probably have them head over and do Racer too. If they can get Racer running consistently the way it was on my ride in May 2012 (very smooth and full of airtime) it's popularity will start to go up again. But if isn't cared for, it'll get rough and eventually few if any will be riding it and that will force the park to remove or RMC it. I hope that doesn't happen, as when it's running well, Racer is a solid coaster and a historic one to boot.

1. Since this is a "what I want" and not "what I expect", I voted Intamin but to make it clearer, a Plug-N-Play wooden coaster like El Toro @ SFGadv or Colossos @ Heide Park. (No offense to their Gigas, Stratas, and Blitz coasters) as I'd like to see Kings Island have a modern wooden coaster and possibly even re-try the "Hyper Wooden Coaster" concept as I find the idea of a 200'+ wooden coaster awesome (it kinda sucks that SOB failed so badly as the concept alone was actually pretty cool). But I don't see it happening since Cedar Fair and Intamin are not on the best of terms. (Though to be fair, I'd more than welcome MANY of the other options listed) 2. 24 Hours in the Eiffel Tower? Ehh, no...I'd likely get bored after an hour, and then the remaining 23 would be torture. 3. I don't recall the exact month, but it was in the Summer of 2000 because SOB was new. It would be 9 years before I returned, however...though that would still be in the same bracket. 4. As it is the only one I have ever ridden, Boo Blasters has to get my vote. But note this- I'm 90% sure one ride on either Enchanted Voyage or Phantom Theatre and that changes. But I'd probably need a time machine to do that... Also I think I see an error- I'm pretty sure Smurf's Enchanted Voyage debuted in 1984, alongside King Cobra, not 1982. I think I remember it being on that year's map or something.

Giga Coaster- possibly, and with the invert now covered that's actually a fairly good chance of being KI's next big coaster's style. Intamin...probably not so much due to their current rocky relationship with Cedar Fair (I'd assume any Intamin coasters Cedar Fair adds from here on would likely start small and tried-and-true to try and rebuild trust- they very likely won't just dive in and do something crazy...and that's if Cedar Fair touches Intamin at all). So it'll probably be a B&M Giga like Leviathan or Fury 325 (though likely even taller, faster, and longer than both since that seems to be a current trend). As for when, it will probably be a few years. 2016 is highly unlikely, so it'd be 2017 or later at earliest...and probably more like 2019 or something. Though if Fury 325 gets glowing reviews (Leviathan has been reviewed very well by those who have ridden it so that looks good already for Fury), they may decide to speed things up a bit and add one a bit sooner. I'd still think 2019 though. With smaller additions in between (More flats, dark rides, maybe a kids/family coaster, or new waterslides for the waterpark, etc.).

On the subject of why Leviathan and Fury 325 likely have the old-style 4-across seating arrangement versus the "V" seats, I just thought it was due to the weight of the trains. The newer trains found on rides like Diamondback are longer and thus likely heavier than the older style, and Giga Coasters need very long, heavy chain lifts due to their height. Thus, to keep it from breaking too much, B&M put the older, lighter trains on instead. In fact, to further reduce weight, the B&M Gigas seem to only use 8 cars per train but if you compare that to the older B&M Hypers which had this style of train like Nitro, those had NINE cars per train. If weight was not an issue, I'd assume B&M would have put that extra car on the Gigas just for the slight capacity boost. As for the rattling on the V-seated hypers, I have only ridden Diamondback, and in 2014 I only noticed the rattling on the first drop- everywhere else it was smooth. And when I rode in the 2nd row (just behind the front seat) I didn't even notice it all. Though in my ride on it in 2011, it was there for most of the ride and made Diamondback seem like a smooth wooden coaster instead of a steel coaster (it was still more than bearable though- I have ridden much worse)...when we hit the breaks, I remember thinking "Huh, so that's probably what a smooth wooden hypercoaster would feel like."

Hmm..."they aren't insanely intense"...that one line has made me think a bit and makes the idea of a CP dive machine a bit interesting. I was thinking this type of coaster would COMPETE with the likes of TTD and such...but, if instead it's going for a more "GP-Friendly" approach (IE a medium-high but not insane intensity level) it could work on the same level as Gatekeeper- it looks huge and fearsome, but is in fact actually somewhat tame and approachable. The challenge would be, since Dive Machines can break the 200' mark and have inversions, getting the userbase who would enjoy it (those wanting a bigger coaster than Blue Streak or Iron Dragon, but not quite ready for the super-intense stuff) to realize it won't be THAT bad. Though Gatekeeper was stupidly popular (2,000,000+ riders and most ridden coaster in the park) its debut season and it had the same challenges (Gatekeeper is 170-feet tall and has numerous inversions), so perhaps Cedar Point has already figured out how to do just that. Plus this WOULD be a B&M so it'd be super-reliable and high capacity...and CP would have so many high capacity coasters then (mainly due to how many Arrow and B&M products they have- those companies rides typically have great capacity)... Though a Dive Machine- like Gatekeeper for the most- would probablly have hardcore enthusiasts wanting more...then again we are like 5% of park-goers at best so it's the GP who will pull the most weight in the decision-making process. I still think CP could use the Wooden Coaster or Dark Ride though. And, as stated, with Wildcat and DT gone there is room for another family coaster in the lineup. And a huge flying coaster on the level of Tatsu would also fit perfectly, but that would be a much bigger investment. ^ Yeah. I've realized that now- seems total bogus. First post will be edited.

^ Hmm...that would actually be interesting. Perhaps instead of 200 feet, something more around 100-150...and perhaps zero inversions, since those would seemingly automatically make it a thrill coaster (A Dive Coaster without inversions would automatically be very unique). And it would probably be small enough to not need to remove ANYTHING, and have money left in the budget for theming- tunnels, etc. I think this idea would fit a lot better than the giant thrill dive machines- plus since Disaster Transport and Wildcat are gone, CP could really use another family coaster.

A Dive Coaster at Cedar Point for $15,000,000...ehh, I don't see that meshing too well with their current lineup. The Dive Machine's whole "thing" is that it's supposed to be this huge, dominating coaster with a straight-down drop. But there's a problem- for $15 million, you're not going much past 200 feet tall and both Millennium Force and TTD blow that mark away. Oh, and TTD's drop is also straight-down- with a twist, but straight down. And Maverick boasts a BEYOND straight-down drop (maybe Gatekeeper too depending on how you view that first inversion). And then Gatekeeper and Rougarou will also have many of the other features of Dive Machines like Dive Loops, etc. And for said $15,000,000 Cedar Point could get something that would fit in MUCH better. Wooden Coasters are fairly cheap and Cedar Point could really use a good, modern woodie- it wouldn't be as big or dominate the skyline or anything but GCI, the go-to company for Cedar Fair woodies, could EASILY build a world-class ride for that price- with 3 trains of course since CP would need the capacity. Or they could do something to try and get Mean Streak running much better (RMC?) getting rid of the 2nd of the park's seemingly constantly hated coasters (the other was Mantis). Or they could get that dark ride they have been needing for a while now...or add something new to Soak City. All of these things seem like better investments to me than a Dive Machine and would fit well with what the park already has. The only reason I can even think the Dive Machine would be added would be so CP could boast "World's Tallest Dive Machine" (by like 5-10 feet or something) to simply boast yet another record breaking coaster- which basically means they are adding a coaster simply to add a new coaster, and they decided it had to be steel and B&M because for some reason and a good Flying Coaster (the one remaining current B&M model I do honestly think would fit great at CP) didn't fit in the 15M budget. Either that or they are suddenly really pressed for space and this was all they could fit in- though dark rides don't need THAT much room... Granted this is just a rumor at this point, and since most of the additions to Cedar Fair parks under Matt Ouimet have been making perfect sense until now, I'm thinking this rumor is dubious. I guess we'll have to wait it out and see.

Excellent points...yeah, I'd have to agree on them. Like it or not, Holiday World isn't going to stay a small park forever- especially not at this pace- and they clearly don't want to forever be a small park (in fact I'd agree they have already broken that wall down) as big parks make more money. But they have to keep some of their small-park values even as the park grows larger or they risk losing what made them so good in the first place. And re-reading that review, something I noticed: he did have a complaint about the main waterpark entrance being too cramped up...and then in 2013, they went and fixed that. Had to remove some of their older waterpark rides but the area is now a much better entrance hub for the waterpark. So they have been trying to fix what flaws they do have (though stuff like the crazy layout they currently have can't really be fixed- HW has to work with the terrain they have...).

Sadly, that is true...if this feud goes long enough, even if it does end, it could be too late for Pat Koch. Even if she is still alive, she might not be healthy enough to return to her old job greeting guests at Holiday World (and everything else she was doing there prior to 2013 as I'm pretty sure she did more than just that)- something I am very sure she'd love to be doing again. Hopefully it does happen sooner rather than later. Though there sadly is a chance the grudges could last too long...

^ "And thus, with the reunion of the Koch Family, Holiday World and Alabama's Splash Adventure become one company- Koch Amusement Corporation was born in the year 20XX...(XX since I have no idea if/when this would happen)" Hey, if it did happen, it could go places. Cedar Fair got started when Cedar Point joined forces with Valleyfair, so if the Koch family did re-unite and join these two parks under one roof...it could start a whole different chain of parks to compete with Cedar Fair and Six Flags and the like. Though that would EASILY put Holiday World itself into the corporate parks category since being part of a chain is a factor in that... Though first, the Koch family needs to re-unite and all that. I do hope it does one day happen...

To be honest, it's probably been heading that way for a while- at least since The Voyage was added in 2006 and the entire Thanksgiving Plaza was made. (TBH I actually thought about adding this discussion in my first post before this) If you compare that area to the older sections of the park, it feels very different- the other areas are all nicely shaded, with lots of trees and the buildings and stuff at least had some effort put into their theming. Then you go back to Thanksgiving and it's kinda like KI's Action Zone (granted 2014 additions really helped AZ seem nicer)...a open concrete lot for the most part with mostly generic-looking buildings with some tacked-on theming. At least there is SOME foliage towards the back near where Thunderbird will be though- hoping that area ends up looking better than Voyage's, but I'm not holding my breath. The new-for-2014 buildings I have yet to see in person did look nice in the renderings though so I could have some hope at least there. Another aspect of how Holiday World seems to be approaching "corporate" status would be the recent push for record-breaking rides. The Voyage was pushed HARD for its records, even when El Toro at NJFTP had broken one of them. Pilgrims Plunge/Giraffica was heavily pushed for its status as the tallest water ride while it lasted. Wildebeest was pushed hard as the world's longest water coaster in marketing...and then got one-upped by its own park a mere 2 years later with Mammoth. And now Thunderbird's status as the first launched wing coaster in the US...this is the kind of stuff Six Flags and Cedar Fair do. While small parks do occasionally add a world record breaking ride (like Steel Phantom or Chang) the rate at which Holiday World has been doing it does not line up with a small park. And then the recent big change- the 2013 "family feud" which removed Pat Koch from the Holiday World picture, and put the people running the park behind-the-scenes like any other major corporate park. In 2012 and earlier, this was at least one way Holiday World was different than most major chain parks. But now? You have some regular cheesy TV ad's, management isn't shown in any of them. And there's just some regular worker out in front greeting guests. (Meanwhile, the "old" guys who were forced to "relocate" to Alabama Adventure seem to still use Holiday World's old policy and they show themselves front-and-center in most advertisement I have seen on their web page...) I'll make it clear I do still love Holiday World. Not EVERY aspect of the old family park has died- the main thing I could think of would be the fudge shop which was awesome- and they do have the unlimited soft drinks with admission (not free as claimed though) and free parking promos still, 2 things I doubt either Cedar Fair or Six Flags would do though they could shock me. But it's mostly because the rides they have are great, they have one of the best waterparks around, and they do keep it safe and clean- though to be fair, a good corporate chain park will usually also do most of the above except maybe the waterpark part. But they are not without flaws, and the gap they claim to have between the big corporate parks and them really isn't as big as they say it is. This review- from 2009 when Will Koch was actually still alive & in charge- isn't mine at all but it hits a lot of these issues on the head... http://www.rollercoasterphilosophy.com/2009/holiday-world/

My guess why they extended their hours- they are expecting a lot more guests in 2015 (Big New Coasters usually cause attendance spikes at smaller parks) and thus wait times will be increased, especially during the peak summer season. Hence guests may need that extra time to get in all the rides/attractions they may want to do, especially if they will be hitting the packed waterpark. The ability to ride your choice of the 4 coasters at night will just be a nice bonus though I think it will be VERY difficult to get all 4 in one night due to how crowded it'll likely be most nights.

Well, since we are talking a 20-year section of the park's history here (1972-1992) there is a LOT to choose from. Racer saved the wooden coaster from certain death and gave the park a signature thrill ride in its early years. The Eiffel Tower is iconic to the park. The Enchanted Voyage was iconic in the park's early years. The Wild Animal Safari Monorail was an awesome idea. Screamin' Demon- while not the longest lived ride- did help "launch" the launch coaster. The Original Bat was flawed but opened the door for the suspended and inverted coasters of the future. King Cobra was the first stand-up looping coaster. Vortex broke records and sent riders upside down 6 times and still runs strong today. Adventure Express ended up being a darn good mine train. Phantom Theatre has a strong following today years after its removal. But...compared to one ride, these are all just very honorable mentions. The Beast- the legendary wooden monster. Racer saved the wooden coaster from death, but then it was Beast that took not only wooden coasters but coasters in general to another level, showing how good marketing and hype could sell a ride. Breaking nearly every world record helped too of course. And 35 years later, it still holds a world record as the world's longest wooden coaster. It is STILL beloved by millions. It even got a sequel. HOW MANY RIDES GET SEQUELS!?!? And so it gets my vote as not just the most iconic addition of the Taft/KECO/Lindner years...it even beats out FOF, Diamondback, and Banshee as my pick of KI's best ride addition of all time.

All of those- had they occured- would have drastically affected the amusement industry IMO. And all would have created very different versions of Kings Island...and to be honest part of me wouldn't mind seeing some of those versions of the park. If only the What-if Machine from Futurama was real... http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/What-If_Machine

Oh. OK thanks. OOOHHH...Oops. Spelling error on my part. My bad.

Please forgive me (may seem dumb of me)...but...what is "N"?