McSalsa

^^ From what I've heard, Legend was just re-tracked this year. What you may have felt on Legend may not have been simple roughness: the ride is known for HARD, and I mean HARD laterals (aka side-to-side G-Forces) because the designers used as little banking as possible on most of the turns in the 2nd half. Holiday World (then under Will Koch) and CCI designed the ride this way back before it opened in 2000. As most of the GP doesn't really like Laterals too much, this was one thing they actually toned down when building Voyage (by greatly increasing the banking on the turns). I've been on Legend a handful of times (5 or 6) and while the laterals did make my sides a bit sore, I don't think I've ever felt jackhammering or anything of the sort. Just said hard laterals. I've even rode it from the very back a few times (aka roughest possible seat) without much issue. Though a bad wheel or something could also have caused what you felt.

Wow- I have to agree with Marth555. These Skyloops really are becoming super common like Vekoma Boomerangs were in the 90's. I don't really see Kings Island or Cedar Point getting one (park's a bit large in scale and attendance for one of these) but I wouldn't be shocked if one of these did eventually show up around here at a place like Holiday World, Kentucky Kingdom (if they can stay open), Indiana Beach, etc etc...maybe even Six Flags St. Louis would be a possibility (actually since Six Flags has already added one of these to Discovery Kingdom, that seems probable). While I have never been on one of these, they seem like a step-up from the classic looping rides in scale and stuff. They look like pretty fun rides and would be good options for smaller parks like this who are tight on money and cannot afford the latest huge steel rides from B&M.

Yikes- nearly 500 people injured? This would be by scale one of the worst amusement/theme/water park accidents I have ever heard of. I hope everyone still injured from this recovers, and my condolences go to the families of the 4 people who have died because of this so far. I wonder how the heck this even happened in the first place. Was there something in that powder? Or did someone use fireworks or something? I agree with the Taiwan Government on banning it for now until we know what happened... I have only ever had very minor burns (from cooking and stuff- I'm not 100% Klutz proof and with me the occasional accident happens) and even those sucked and it took my Mother months to fully recover after she burned her hand on the stove once. And it sounds like many people got far worse than even that here. Ouch. Again, I hope they all recover as fast as possible but even that should be a long time for many.

Oh crud- I kinda spaced on that. If the Koch family can reconcile and fix their broken relationship, then a Holiday World+Alabama Adventure combo season pass would make a lot of sense in addition to the individual park passes (since not everyone could go to both). But considering it's still a fairly fresh wound (it's only been a few years now) and how fierce the fighting seemed to have gotten I don't see that anytime soon. And I agree, it does stink.

From what I've heard they are using the MCBR really hard and the train comes to a near-stop in that area, slowing the 2nd half of the ride down considerably. They claim this is for rider comfort but it's pretty clear this was done to reduce wear-and-tear on the coaster. I'm not sure if they do it for stuff like Holiwood Nights or Media Previews, but they do it on public operating days. The ride needing major re-tracking every offseason had to have been a factor though. Edit: Next-paged. D'oh... Update: Well, I thought about it a bit more and read some of the responses to that post. So some more thoughts...mainly, can Holiday World become a big park and still retain some of their charm? Well... #1: Please don't ditch the free drinks or free parking. Those are 2 of the things that made you famous in the first place. Also don't raise prices to extreme levels. #2: Also, most of the comments don't want fast passes of any type either. I'd have to agree- that may bring in some extra money but it also seems to anger people fairly easily. #3: Don't nerf the other woodies. Raven & Legend have ran fine with standard retracks for 15+ years now, so by now there are clearly no major design flaws in those rides. Voyage's sheer size may make it a special case as most giant wooden coasters (140 feet+) have not led happy lives either. #4: Space out the giant steel coasters. I don't want to see another $20,000,000 monster until at least 4 years from now. The reason? Geauga Lake. They added too much too fast and the small local community couldn't support them, so they died off- and this was in spite of the fact that for nearly 100 years they had been just fine as a family park. Holiday World would possibly face a similar fate as they aren't near any major cities. Let the hotels & stuff catch up. Possibly even one major addition a decade (Voyage in the 2000's, Thunderbird for the 2010's, ??? 2020's...etc etc...) #5: Something like ERT in the AM or PM hours (I'd go PM since Holiday World closes way too early most days for night rides and thus that would actually be a decent perk) would probably be OK for a "Platinum" Holiday World pass and wouldn't hurt the normal passholders and ticket users. Also possibly un-nerf (aka run with MCBR off like from 2006-2014) Voyage for said ERT riders if possible. Discounts and stuff would probably also be OK. Well, those are some more thoughts I had.

Hmm...Holiday World just posted something interesting on their Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/HolidayWorld/posts/10153089021564538?comment_tracking={%22tn%22%3A%22O%22} From the link, quoted... "Because we appreciate your ideas: We're talking about adding a premium layer to Season Passes for 2016. What "extras" do you think it should it include?" A premium-level season pass? Oh boy. That's Six Flags and Cedar Fair type stuff there, not "little family park" stuff. Huge steel coasters, Voyage's 2nd half being nerfed to cut costs, heavy promotion of record-breaking rides, aggressive expansion (including attempts to buy another park which I'm pretty sure we may see them do again)...and now this kind of thing. For better or worse, Holiday World seems to be becoming a giant regional park and not the small family park people fell in love with back in the 80's and 90's. I seriously hope stuff like the free soft drinks, free parking and affordable nature of the park doesn't go the way of the Dodo in favor of 10+ roller coasters and $4 drinks. We already have Kings Island for that in this region.

If you look right now, they are loading the trains onto Diamondback. Awesome to watch. Update: ...and 11 minutes later they're done.

Having Googled him, it brought up a web site I think I've seen before with some interesting-looking articles about the tech behind coasters and stuff. So I'd have to assume that yes, we probably would become friends...

^ Uhh...no. I honestly don't even know who that is.

Well, I just wasted a few hours watching the web cams and have been timing most of the rides I could pick outs dispatches to try and estimate each ride's capacity. Some of the results kinda shocked me- I also timed all these rides at least 3 times to try get a "decent" sample size. My formula: #1-Take 3600 seconds, aka how many seconds per hour. #2-Divide by dispatch time in seconds to get # of dispatches per hour. #3-Multiply by riders per train. Here are my results based on what I saw on the webcams: Banshee-CAM RIDES (Action Zone & Oktoberfest) Banshee 1st: 90 seconds (1280pph) 2nd: 70 seconds (1646pph) 3rd: 60 seconds (1920pph) 4th: 135 seconds (853pph) OK I did Banshee 4 times for the heck of it. And wow- what awesome capacity. I thought #2 was amazing and then I got a 60-second dispatch which I assume was about as good as it gets (Train #1 was close to top of lift as #3 hit brakes). Of course, Banshee proved she is a mortal coaster- #4 was unsually long for this ride. I assume it must have been a walk-of-shame or something...but Holy Cow, if Banshee could do #3 all the time that would be 1900pph...crazy... The Bat 1st: 135 seconds (747pph) 2nd: 110 seconds (916pph) 3rd: 140 seconds (720pph) Ehh, compared to Banshee, poor Bat's capacity seems to be crud. Though I do think the crew could have gotten the ride out quicker- I saw Train #1 hit the brakes, then Train #2 took at least 20-30 more seconds to get on the lift it seemed on nearly ALL of these. 1000pph could be possible on a good day. Adventure Express 1st: 120 seconds (900pph) 2nd: 110 seconds (982pph) 3rd: 180 seconds (600pph) AE ended up doing a little better than Bat, but then #3 came up- I have to guess someone had some issue or something for it to take an extra minute to get out the door. With #2 hitting 982pph, I really think 1000pph+ is easily possible on AE, even with 2 trains (vs. the 3 it opened with). Delirium 1st: 330 seconds (545pph) 2nd: 300 seconds (600pph) 3rd: 335 seconds (537pph) Ugh. This was painful to test because it took 5 minutes between dispatches every time- which included the one-minute ride cycle because flats cannot run more than 1 train unlike roller coasters. Having 50 riders go at once negated it somewhat (nearly all coasters are 36 or less), but Delirium still falls several hundred riders short of the coasters tested above. Probably decent for a flat ride though. I didn't compare any of the smaller, lower-capacity flats...yet...hmm, perhaps I need to test Shake, Rattle, & Roll which I can see on the next webcam...I also didn't check Sling Shot or Xtreme Skyflyer as I figured they would be FAR worse, and are probably pay-per-rides for a reason. And that was it for Banshee-cam rides...on the other webcam... Diamondback CAM RIDES Diamondback (DiamondStacks Labeled as such! ) #1: 120 seconds (960pph) "Diamondstack" #2: 75 seconds (1536pph) #3: 110 seconds (1047pph) Well, I got a Stack, a great dispatch, and a near-stack (At 110 seconds, Train #3 is JUST getting on the lifthill). Even the stack was still nearly 1000pph though. So still better than most of the previously tested coasters and Delirium...minus Banshee of course. Now, when you get more dispatches like #2... The Beast #1: 110 seconds (1178pph) #2: 130 seconds (997pph) #3: 160 seconds (810pph) Well, for Beast, the first dispatch I caught (these were a bit tricky as the train was a bit hard to spot on the webcam due to the ride's location) was the best and was very close to the ride's claimed 1200pph. But then it got worse and worse...well sorta, even #3 at 810pph isn't THAT horrible. I guess those huge 36-passenger trains really pay off for capacity. Oh, and I did the math- with one train, and a 5 minute 30 second dispatch estimation, my guess is my 1-train wait in 2011 ran at around 393pph...OUCH. Vortex #1: 120 seconds (840pph) #2: 120 seconds (840pph) #3: 100 seconds (1,008pph) Wow, I was honestly expecting Vortex to do better than this given how it is always a 20-minute wait or so even when crowded. The crew did look a bit slow though- train #2 was just starting to climb the hill as #3 was in the station and #1 was hitting the main brakes on #1 and #2. On a better day, I could see Vortex getting down to 90 seconds between dispatches and using the MCBR- it would then pull around 1,120pph. So I guess perhaps I may have been wrong and it doesn't have B&M-like capacity...the short line really just is short...or the crew is just slow and the ride should be pulling 60-70 second dispatches and getting around 1440-1680pph. Backlot Stunt Coaster #1: 65 seconds (665pph) #2: 65 seconds (665pph) #3: 65 seconds (665pph) Wow. What consistency by the BLSC crew. And getting even 3-car trains out so fast is impressive. Though said small trains keep capacity still a bit low at 665pph...it probably still beats Firehawk though. (My estimate for that is a measly 480pph but it could be around 720 on a good day as well...) Race for Your Life, Charlie Brown #1: 20 seconds (720pph) #2: 15 seconds (960pph) #3: 26 seconds (554pph) WUT...LOG FLUME HAS BETTER CAPACITY AT TIMES THAN SOME COASTERS!?!? Even with only 4 riders max per log, the fact they are leaving in 15-20 seconds makes this a high capacity ride by my estimates. Wow...guess if the line looks long for this, it may really not be that bad. I'd assume White Water Canyon may be even better, since it's dispatch times seem similar and it can hold 8 riders per boat...wait, 1600pph possible for WWC!?!? Talk about a mind-blow... And those are all the rides I checked...I may do more of this in the future, which will probably mainly include a Shake Rattle & Roll test to compare with Delirium. Anyhow, thanks for reading my crazy numbers mumbo jumbo.

Well, thinking about this really long and hard- it all depends on what Cedar Fair wants to add, and if they really wanted something no one BUT Intamin could offer, they might do it. But what does Intamin offer that other companies can't? All I can think of they really have are the Rocket Coasters like TTD, Polercoasters, Impulse Coasters, and the 10+ Inversion coasters as nearly everything else coaster-wise Intamin makes, B&M or Mack Rides offers a rival version boasting better reliability. Cedar Fair sure isn't buying any more Shoot-the-Rapids boat rides after what happened with that one either. A Drop Tower could be possible but I think most of the parks already have one. Unless Polercoaster takes off and is a success or some Cedar Fair park decides it wants a Strata for some reason, Intamin just doesn't seem to have an opening without someone else rushing in to make a better offer. Intamin's only real option with Cedar Fair right now would probably be to offer a large discount, and hope Cedar Fair can't resist it (like Arrow did with Kings Island for Vortex in 1987). They might lose some money short-term this way, but if they don't screw up the "apology" install and it actually runs well, then Cedar Fair may start working with them again. But I don't know if Intamin will be willing to do this, or just work with foreign parks and hope they can repair their image with those. If Intamin can get their reliability and safety up, and keep it up, their odds of getting back in the coaster wars increase. If they stay the same and keep giving parks major problems, then they will go the same way Arrow did and be a famous coaster company from the past.

^ I'd have to wonder if the Maintenance worker was just walking around, his phone rang, and he dropped it. "Oops. Dropped my phone..." then he leaned over to get it and a train whizzed by. One of the riders in the front row may have had their hands out going "WOOHOO!!!" as you sometimes see on coasters, and smacked him and then he got dragged the 10-15 feet. Or he also could have been getting a phone for a guest for whatever reason. Why he didn't think to wait and tell the guest "I can go get it but wait until the park closes, I can't while the ride's running" I have no idea. If he recovers, we may eventually get the whole story as to how this happened and why he was there in the first place- which I'm pretty sure CGA would like to know.

This occurred on the park's B&M Inverted coaster, Flight Deck. A maintenance worker apparently went to get a dropped cell phone and was hit in the head by the coaster's train, which may have also injured a rider. http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/national/report-great-america-employee-hit-head-roller-coas/nmcNm/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook A rider somehow got a broken hand but is otherwise is OK. The worker got some bad injuries as well, but was responsive when first responders arrived. I hope both the worker and the person whose hand was somehow broken get a speedy recovery, and in the case of the worker I hope he didn't get any major long-term head injuries as could happen. QUICK EDIT/UPDATE A 2nd source: http://abc30.com/news/two-injured-on-roller-coaster-at-great-america-in-santa-clara/781579/ Based on more info listed by this, I got more of the picture and edited this post. This seems similar to when the guy jumped a security fence to get his hat and was killed by a rider's feet on this same coaster, save this time no one died.

I have been to Kings Island 9 times...lifetime. Though currently there are plans to visit on June 24th, which would be my 10th visit overall...and first visit this season. So...I am pretty much super easy to beat on here.

Well, I finally saw a Kentucky Kingdom TV Ad today here in Central Indiana (first ever for me since Six Flags era when they aired all the time). Ironically it was right after a Holiday World ad, which I have seen hundreds of this year alone. And they were pushing the $30 2-day tickets. At least they are finally showing ads on TV and outside Facebook and stuff.

^ I can see the case for and against that one. A lot of people love it and it gets glowing reviews, but it is still a much smaller park than most and some might overlook it (probably an error on their part). And it's not the only park on here I could see that for. This list is very, very weird overall though. A different title like "The best amusement parks in North America that aren't Disney/Universal" would have made more sense and been easier for the voters to grasp. Though I'd suspect if THAT were the title, a few Six Flags' might make it on the list...

^^^ I kinda can to. Kings Dominion is a larger park size and ride count wise, but it has been often overshadowed by Busch Gardens Williamsburg. Though the additions of Dominator in 2008 & Intimidator 305 in 2010 have given it more hardcore "coaster junkie appeal". But then the list blew up at #9- the first 8 made SOME sense. Then at #9, Busch Gardens Williamsburg. A huge award-winning park that is one of the most well-known in the country...and it's underrated? It and Cedar Point IMO are the 2 biggest errors here. Both are considered amazing parks by nearly all- but there's the problem, when everyone considers you good, you're not underrated at all and are in fact more likely to be OVER-rated. If just those 2 were replaced by, say, 2 Six Flags parks (thinking about it most of the entire chain oustide of Magic Mountain is kind of overlooked- even SFGAdv, in spite of El Toro & Kinda Ka- because there's a lingering "Six Flags Sux" vibe left from their mid-2000's errors) then the rest I guess you could make some arguments for (Kings Island is very popular but I guess you could say it lives in Cedar Point's shadow, for example).

I would have to think said GP saw the poll, didn't know what "underrated" even meant and just saw "Amusement Park" and went "HURP-DURP CEDAH POINT FTW!!!" and voted. That could actually explain a lot of these actually. To be fair though, I do think a few of these DO belong on an underrated list- just not the big Cedar Fair parks (I could understand the lesser-known ones like Worlds of Fun or Michigan's Adventure though as those could technically be considered underrated) parks, or Busch Gardens...also, not ONE Six Flags park? I just noticed that...either people think the entire Six Flags chain sucks or its universally considered awesome and can't be underrated now, according to this. (IMO a few Six Flags' parks could be considered hidden gems and thus underrated)

Well, I just found this interesting article by Buzzfeed where they list the parks their userbase voted "Most Underrated". Here is the article... http://www.buzzfeed.com/laurenpaul/the-most-underrated-amusement-parks-in-the-world#.bizm8lMxP Uhh...yeah, some of these parks most would not be considered "underrated". I think the voters may not have even known what that's supposed to mean...these aren't all small, under-the-radar parks... This feels like it would have been worthy for the "I can't make this crap up" thread but I figured ehh...I'll make a new thread just for this. Comments more than welcome.

^ At the very least, I think if/when the ride does re-open, it won't be the same and there will have been some kind of modifications. Possibly the removal/changing of track sections, bumpers added to the cars, better sensors and safety systems, etc. Though whatever caused this accident still needs to be figured out before they know what changes to make. Then, if it STILL doesn't work and keeps having more issues...it'll likely be more than Alton Towers can put up with and thus bye-bye Smiler, say hi to Son of Beast & Hypersonic XLC, etc. in the realm of innovative but failed coasters. Which will be sad because Smiler seems, based on photos & POV's ( have yet to get to Cedar Point so Alton Towers is way outta my coaster range ATM) at least, to be a VERY unique and interesting ride and potentially a very fun one.

Yikes- I know Smiler has had some big issues in the past, but this is awful. While it's a good thing no one has died (yet- I fear some of these injuries sound like they may eventually be possibly fatal though I hope that doesn't happen) but the rumors (though reported by news sites) of crushed legs and lives changed forever sounds horrible. Add this incident in with the past issues with Smiler, and I'd say it's pretty safe to say this ride has had a a VERY rough first 2 years. I wouldn't be shocked if it doesn't make it to 2020 (if even that) after all these incidents. I agree with Terpy- we will see changes in the industry because of this. This ride is starting to remind me of Son of Beast- a revolutionary ride that pushed the limits, but may have pushed them too far for its own good and thus had many issues.

And you would be correct. Here is a picture from RCDB of X-Flight at Geauga Lake...which is now Firehawk... And here is a video (linked by RCDB) that shows it in Action there back in 2001, its debut season:

^^ Yeah that would make sense...the one thing that confuses me still though: 7 cars per train when some of the other B&M Hypers with 4-across seating had up to 9? I wonder why SeaWorld wouldn't just go for 8 or 9 cars. Still, with the increased speeds of checking the trains (and thus quicker dispatch) and a slightly shorter track I wouldn't be too shocked if this "out-capacities" the V-Seater Hypercoasters, even being down 1 car per train.

Well, looking at this again...and having more time to think about it...here are more thoughts and stuff, and other thoughts gone into deeper: 1. The ending of this ride is pretty unique with how it twists and turns and goes over/under itself. Kinda reminds me of Voyage @ Holiday World's ending. 2. The ride will probably be excellent with lots of airtime, but (as stated) it probably won't draw in guests from other markets that have B&M Hypers nearby. For Orlando however- whom previously the closest hypercoaster was Goliath @ SFOG, this will be a great addition to an already solid coaster lineup that includes Manta (widely considered one of the best B&M Flying Coasters), Kraken (a top-rated Floorless coaster), and Journey to Atlantis (a very cool and interesting dark ride/water ride/coaster hybrid). Disney and Universal have nothing like this. 3. Purple and Blue? Not the most common paint scheme but it looks good. 4. As a B&M, It will probably be super reliable and open day 1. And the GP should eat it up since it has zero inversions, something you can't say about Manta or Kraken. They should make a very solid B&M coaster trio together. 5. That animation looks pretty lousy outside the coasters themselves. The real ride should be much prettier near the lake and with Orlando in the background. 6. I take back my "It looks like Diamondback and Fury 325" statement- at least the Diamondback part. The turnaround actually seems much more like Intimidator's, also at Carowinds. So this seems like a Mini-Mix of Carowinds B&M's, with a Voyage-like ending. 7. I'm still curious as to the train selection- the streak of all B&M Hypers since Behemoth having the V-Seated Trains is over. And only 7 cars per train when most of the B&M's with this train style ran 8 or even 9? Also, To faeriewench: I can remember Diamondback went down for a week or so in I think 2012 or so. There was a bad footer or something, it wasn't really B&M's fault since they don't make that part of their coasters. Other than that though DB has been pretty reliable since it opened in 2009 so I expect the same from Mako.

(Also posted in the "Red Track Spotted at Batavia Plant" thread) Wait, is this ride using the classic 4-across trains and not the V-Shaped ones? Huh. And it's NOT a Giga but a normal hyper. Either SeaWorld just didn't want to spend extra money on the V-Trains, or perhaps an issue was found with them. As for the coaster itself: looks like Fury 325 and Diamondback rolled into one and then shrunk down to just 200 feet (versus 230 for Diamondback and 325 for Fury 325). (Not in said post) Looking at the video and POV, I noticed it only uses 7 cars per train, so the train is VERY short. They may have needed it to be this short to fit the station in, in which case I see why they are using the old train style. Looks like a good ride with lots of airtime, but I'm not expecting this to set the world on fire. Should be a solid addition for SeaWorld Orlando though.