KI Guy

Yes "add value" was my attempt at selling it in their terms. It's about giving something away that costs them almost nothing in order to increase the price of the pass.

I'm skeptical about this really being primarily about driving per capita spending in parks. I still think very few people go to more than one park. I'd say it's primarily a new strategy to add value (read: charge more for) the gold pass while minimizing blowback. People are used to $125 gold passes, and I don't know if those will exist when people buy the enhanced gold passes for 2027. I can see it now, "Get access to Kings Island and 10 other parks for just $12.50 per month ($159.99 total)!

Add a tunnel to the bottom of the first hill and give it a new name. Any name that has to be heavily explained to the average guest is probably not a good name, (see also Rougarou and Valravn). They could have accomplished the same story with the better name Zodiac and also called back to KI history. The park could even have a contest where they let the fans choose the new name for the coaster.

The 8 or 9 year gap was based on the time from Orion in 2020 to the next major coaster installation which you anticipate in 2028 or 2029. If the park did this the whole time, they existed they would have about 6 or 7 large coasters right now assuming none of them were torn down. That is not replacement rate. Again, I think this could be a one off. Thanks for your numbers above. You did forget Firehawk in 2007*. That is worth mentioning because the seven-year gap from Son of Beast to Firehawk is for now the longest gap between large coasters in the park's history. * Also the Bavarian Beetle, The Bat (1993), and Scooby's Ghoster Coaster.

^ You may have missed my point which was that there are longer term effects when not investing. They may not see a drop in attendance those 2 – 4 years, but in the long-term the park can start to suffer. Full retracking/refurbishment of steel coasters is exceedingly rare. I can only think of four occurrences off the top of my head. Usually by the time a steel coaster needs retracking it is no longer popular enough to justify a very expensive retrack. There may end up being a longer life for B&Ms and Intamins vs the old Arrows, but that is an unknown at this point. The 8 or 9 year gap between coasters you lay out is just not sustainable if Kings Island is to remain the Kings Island we grew up with. Note that I do recognize the unusual circumstances the park finds itself in right now so this could be understood by the park with this being a one-off.

That may be the case we really can't know for sure but increasing attendance is not the only consideration. They have to add just to maintain the park. Every attraction in the park with the exception of wood coasters has a finite lifespan. Even if everything were to last as long as Vortex then the rides go away in these respective years: Flight of Fear 2028 Invertigo 2031 Woodstock's Air Rail 2033 Queen City Stunt Coaster 2035 Diamondback 2041 To just maintain replacement rate they are going to have to up the installations unless they can milk these rides for more than 32 years... Good luck with that.

What evidence do you have that he has not forgotten how to speak English in the 24 minutes between your posts? Next time I'm going to need you to find evidence that he still does before posting a reply. Do better.

Big Bear Mountain is a nice ride, but personally I'd rather have them either commit to a definite family attraction or a definite thrill ride. We already have the middle of the road covered quite nicely with Adventure Express, Queen City Stunt Coaster, and The Bat. An attraction like Fire-in-the Hole on the family end or Alpenfury on the thrill end makes sense to me.

Yes, but Kings Island is not comparable to either of those two parks. Both combined wouldn't match Kings Island's revenue. Not to be insensitive, but at the "at least"/"be glad" we're not Michigan's Adventure has always seemed like a cope by KI superfans. I'm going to hold them to a the high standard that they've always had at least until very recently.

Under no circumstances would Kings Island go nine seasons without a major coaster installation. The current six seasons is already unprecedented. I don't know if KI would have gotten a giga post 2020, but they certainly would have gotten some type of coaster. Personally, I would have rather they had put the CGA hyper somewhere else and put a little more imagination into the KI ride.

I disagree; I see this general sentiment on here all the time. The general public makes fewer distinctions between rides not more. They go by look and feel. Orion looks and feels like Diamondback. It's the enthusiasts who draw distinctions by breaking everything down by manufacturer, model, height, speed, length, elements, etc.

Yes, this topic is mostly for fun. I would say highly, highly unlikely rather than never. Afterall, the park tossed around the idea of adding onto The Beast (survey from 2023? I think) can we really say this is impossible?

Orion is widely seen as a fun ride that is just ok. What if Kings Island had B&M change that? This is more for fun because I don't see it happening even though it should. What Id do: Make the first drop 25 feet longer and add a spiral element to the drop. This will add some much needed intensity throughout the layout. The second hill with the sideways airtime wave turn instead becomes an immelman. This makes Orion the fastest inverting coaster in the world. Where the break run is now add a zero g stall lastly add a reverse banked helix to the end before bringing the coaster up high to burn off speed for the brakes I kept the changes moderate but effective for improving the ride. The closest thing ever done to this is the transformation of Steel Phantom into the vastly superior Phantom's Revenge. How about you, what would you do? *This topic was inspired by Tower Topics who recently discussed drawbacks of Orion. Thanks for the inspiration!

To an extent, yes, I don't know if difficult is the word because innovative stuff is readily available -- the parks are just so risk averse. It may not be as cost effective on paper in the short term to risk an innovative attraction. The big parks could buy S&S Axis coasters, RMC T-Rexes, or Mack Xtreme Spinners, they just don't. Instead they put in the reliable but fairly vanilla B&Ms. The result is that people are pleased but not wowed. "Pleased but not wowed" seems to be the industry trend of the last 15 years or so. By playing it safe the parks actually run the the risk of becoming stale. Innovation was always required in the past rather than optional.

It would be hard to make the case to spend a sizeable amount of money to save FoF if it came to it. Closing the ride is always cheaper. I don't know what the condition of the track is, (metal fatigue gets all large steel coasters eventually if not retracked), or the launch system. Since these execs seem to think predominantly about cost and then marketability with experience third, then it really is in an even worse spot. FoF is only 2 years younger than Vortex was when it was shut down in 2019. I think the next coaster will launch since KI really doesn't have anything with the thrill of a modern launch and the writing is on the wall for FoF.