Then if you're going to do that make sure you check here: http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?showforum=38 to make sure you don't duplicate any existing topics.

aka Past performance is not necessarily an indicator of future performance.

Prior Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance.

Kings Island should get a stand up coaster like King Cobra and make it have more loops!!And maybe just maybe use the old king cobra cars.

Stand Ups are a thing of the past. They were a fad that has come and gone. I'm not saying you'll never see a new stand up coaster in the future, but it would be a rarity.

Dalefan, based what I've seen of you in this thread, I could crack a few Nascar jokes...But I know there are some civilized fans of the sport, as well, and I don't want to offend them.

I want to go to carowinds or wherever that dominator ride is and ride it!! It be my first Stand-up coaster!!

Dominator is going to Kings Dominion and is a floorless, not a stand up.

Kings Dominion does have Shockwave, a weaker and not as much fun sister stand-up to King Cobra, once of Kings Island fame.

Carowinds has Vortex, an early B & M standup. It is, in my humble opinion, not much to write home about.

The worst stand-up I rode was Iron Wolf. That banged my head around way more then FoF did when it had OTSR's.

As far as KI in 2008, I doubt we'll see much as new rides go, but new names, new signs, and new shows I do except to see.

I do think 2009 has something big for KI.

And who, you might ask, was responsible for Iron Wolf?

Why, B & M, of course. . .

Dominator is going to Kings Dominion and is a floorless, not a stand up.

Kings Dominion does have Shockwave, a weaker and not as much fun sister stand-up to King Cobra, once of Kings Island fame.

Carowinds has Vortex, an early B & M standup. It is, in my humble opinion, not much to write home about.

If you are looking for a clone of the King Cobra goto Wonderland.

I think this year new names of rides and some shows that's about it nothing really to talk about. Now if they are already working on 2009 that might be something to get pictures of from a plane.

And who, you might ask, was responsible for Iron Wolf?

Why, B & M, of course. . .

Yes B & M, wasn't Iron Wolf the first stand up they bulit?

Yes, Iron Wolf was the first B & M standup.

http://www.rcdb.com/ir.htm?cls=277&des...e=1&order=6

Dominator is going to Kings Dominion and is a floorless, not a stand up.

Kings Dominion does have Shockwave, a weaker and not as much fun sister stand-up to King Cobra, once of Kings Island fame.

Carowinds has Vortex, an early B & M standup. It is, in my humble opinion, not much to write home about.

Whoops!!I thought it was stand up!!

personally i think that from a buisness perspective, major additions to Kings Island in 2008 would be stupid, we just got Firehawk last year, though, i do think CF will dump a good bit of money into Kings Island. i believe that Cedar Point has really peaked, it has zero room for expansion, and the only way you can really add anything new at this point is to tear down something old.

Kings Island on the other hand could double itself in size and still have land left over. it has a great foundation with the wagon wheel structure, and a backbone of great coasters. while Kings Islands rollercoaster collection may not be as big, or impressive as Cedar Point's, but it is better, the rides at Kings Island are largely best of breeds, whereas Cedar Points are just the firsts.

if Cedar Fair is smart they will add some good flat rides around the park, buy a couple good antiques like those at kennywood for the coney island area, but most importantly add atleast two pieces of signature steel . they have the land for it

if they added a ride that could rival Superman ROS (SFNE), preferably roaming the woods the way The Beast does, and invested in a good publicist, they could easily make Kings Island the biggest park in the usa...

also personally, seeing the success of the Halloween Haunt, i would also prolly add a halloween themed area out in the woods, but i dont see that happening because of Cedar Fairs track record with animatronics and themeing (see disaster transport)

Cedar Point is not running out of room. This is a common misconception. I really don't feel like searching for aerial photos to back myself up. Others here will tell you the same. They have been, for the last few years, creatively re-locating rides to make way for new ones.

*slaps forehead*

CP is not running out of room.

Nah, it's more like money that is currently in relatively short supply....

It would probably boggle the mind to know what it takes to run an amusement park on the scale of Kings Island. One of the more interesting parts of my trips is to watch people spend money. Standing in line for food, I almost get dizzy when I watch how much people spend and how fast they do it.

Despite this, it must not be "enough".

Well, there is the little matter of recouping a recent $1.24 billion expenditure . . . creditors like being paid...

Has the land for GL been sold as of yet? I would think that would help...some.

I think everyone that visits this site does their fair share of trying to help Cedar Fair out...

Dear Cedar Fair,

I could help you out more if you had a nice restaurant to go to, and possibly some more interesting stuff in your gift shops.

KIBeast: No, the Geauga Lake property has not sold. An auction is underway. This is not the best time to be selling real estate, to put it mildly.

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite/Listi...1lww2t006a00001

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite/Listi...gCxtDir=Lateral

So, it's not just the home market struggling?

Absolutely not. ALL real estate is hurting, due to the difficulty in securing financing.

And with the potential of the Democrats taking over the White House and raising taxes, it isn't going to improve anytime soon.

Yeah, because the economy is in this position because of whom?

We probably don't want this to turn into a political ****ing match, blame can be put onto the shoulders of many people encompassing many groups.

Nah, it's more like money that is currently in relatively short supply....

And I though it was SF that made an announcement to cut costs, not CF.

If you think this is a Cedar Fair vs. Six Flags thing, you are sadly not correct. BOTH companies face major hurdles right now. From a weakening economy, financing issues, debt, gasoline prices to competition from the non-seasonal resort parks to other forms of entertainment. No major analyst is recommending Six Flags stock. It is, by far, riskier than Cedar Fair. But Cedar Fair is not perceived as the strong investment it once was.

And no less than Standard & Poors rates Cedar Fair as a strong sell. The company now has a market capitalization that is less than it paid for just the Paramount Parks. And Six Flags market capitilization is less than what Cedar Fair probably paid for just Kings Island.

I could see either company changing management and/or owners any time now.

No it is not a SF vs. CF thing.

But I also believe it should be made clear that while one company has come forward with financial issues with their intentions on cutting things back, the other company is only believed to be in as bad of a situation, and nothing has been made public.

Again, I do NOT think Cedar Fair is in as bad a situation. It took many, many years of bungling, (and, ironically, overenthusiastic expansion at unrealistic acquisition prices while installing thrill rides to the near exclusion of upkeep, properly compensating people and having adequate middle management) to get Six Flags where it was when Snyder and Shapiro appeared on the scene. Now there are many other factors beyond the control of management that give one cause to worry about the US park industry as a whole, and the large regional seasonal operators in particular.

Again, I do NOT think Cedar Fair is in as bad a situation.

I guess I took your comments of CF: having money being in short supply and creditors being paid, the wrong way.

I thought the same thing too, Tggr.

I think it's about time Dick Kinzel retired.

Again, I do NOT think Cedar Fair is in as bad a situation.

I guess I took your comments of CF: having money being in short supply and creditors being paid, the wrong way.

That being said, let's look at the major factors I believe contributed to Six Flags' current situtation:

* overenthusiastic expansion? Apply to Cedar Fair?

* at unrealistic acquistion prices? (Which resulted in taking on too much debt and too greatly leveraging the company) Apply to Cedar Fair?

* installing thrill rides to the near exclusion.... Apply to Cedar Fair?

* of upkeep? (I mean general maintenance, neither chain has in any way lessened safety related maintenance to my knowledge or belief).... Apply to Cedar Fair?

* [not} properly compensating people? (How many people have left the former PP since the CF acquisition and why? What has happened to salaries?)

* [not] having adequate middle management (How many high caliber middle management people have left the former PP since the CF acquisition and why? What has happened to the Maureen Kaisers, the Craig Rosses, the Bob Whites, and on and on and on...)

Each must form his or her own answers and opinions, but there is a stark resonance of another chain's drastic errors echoing off in the background. Danger may lie ahead. Or brilliance. Time will tell.