Cory Butcher Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 On the other hand, I don't know if subconscious smoking is a fair defense either. You are at a place where there is thousands of other people (especially children) that do not smoke and lighting up in an area that you are not supposed to can be seen as extremely rude. Even further, I have seen smokers, in a non-designated area, get told to quit smoking and then make a big scene over it. Why do this? The smoker was in the wrong. I also think it's rude when non-smokers go to the smoking sections and just sit there on the benches while smokers are forced to stand. If you expect a smoker to respect a non-smoker's space, it has to go both ways. Any takers? I completely agree with you on that point Ryan! It doesn't seem quite fair. I know I have seen numerous times too, where that nonsmoker oft refuses to get up so that a smoker can sit down in the area, when there is an open bench in a non smoking area just 10 feet over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XGatorHead 8904 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Now for a tangent... Who's the genius who put a designated smoking area right next to Lost Parents/Baby Care Center at KI? I always thought that was odd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Now for a tangent... Who's the genius who put a designated smoking area right next to Lost Parents/Baby Care Center at KI? I always thought that was odd... Which brings up a point. It's about time that restaurants start having no kids sections. How often is it that ya go to eat and there is a screaming brat with parents that have no control. I'm thinking that needs to be the next campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollerNut Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I would think that if a park really wanted to enforce it where a guest has absolutely no excuse is tp personally hand the guest a notice of the enforced rules either at the toll booths for parking or while entering the park. Actually most park do hand you one, it is a called the "Park Map". Generally, the rules are typed on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Actually most park do hand you one, it is a called the "Park Map". Generally, the rules are typed on them. Now you are assuming that people wil actually open the map. But if you gave guests an individual notice about the smoking policy, then they have no excuse, and should be escorted out (if that is the park's policy). If you limit their options for excuses and misunderstandings/ miscommunications, you can certainly limit the incidents. For instance, in NY and OH you cannot find an ashtray in a tavern. So when you go to the bartender and ask for an ashtray, you are then informed of the state's smoking policies. Now if you find or *make* (empty can/ bottle) your own ashtray, there is no excuse. But this is where SF took it to the next level; in a bar, you will not be thrown out for a first warning. How many people actually get tossed from the park for their first offense of the day for line jumping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 At Six Flags? Every one that is caught in most of their parks. I have it on good authority that over 2000 people have been ejected without refund from Great Adventure this year. And the park is a better place for it. Almost none of them were for smoking...that's now illegal except in designated areas in Jackson, New Jersey where the park is located. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 ^ If that is the case with line jumpers, then good. At least the park is being consistant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BavarianBeatle Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Now for a tangent... Who's the genius who put a designated smoking area right next to Lost Parents/Baby Care Center at KI? I always thought that was odd... So rednecks don't have to walk all the way into the Center to find their kids....LOL!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BavarianBeatle Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Actually most park do hand you one, it is a called the "Park Map". Generally, the rules are typed on them. Now you are assuming that people wil actually open the map. But if you gave guests an individual notice about the smoking policy, then they have no excuse, and should be escorted out (if that is the park's policy). If you limit their options for excuses and misunderstandings/ miscommunications, you can certainly limit the incidents. For instance, in NY and OH you cannot find an ashtray in a tavern. So when you go to the bartender and ask for an ashtray, you are then informed of the state's smoking policies. Now if you find or *make* (empty can/ bottle) your own ashtray, there is no excuse. But this is where SF took it to the next level; in a bar, you will not be thrown out for a first warning. How many people actually get tossed from the park for their first offense of the day for line jumping? How many people get kicked out for their first line jumping offense? Hopefully, ALL OF THEM!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLorean Rider Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I would think that if a park really wanted to enforce it where a guest has absolutely no excuse is tp personally hand the guest a notice of the enforced rules either at the toll booths for parking or while entering the park. Actually most park do hand you one, it is a called the "Park Map". Generally, the rules are typed on them. Actually, if you read the "Park Map" it is very general about the rules and only gives the basics. There is a line on the map that reads: A complete list of rules is available at Guest Relations. (however, just to try the system, twice I have gone up to Guest Relations to retrieve this "Complete list of rules" and they have always looked at me as though I had 2 heads. "What complete list of rules??" This was still with Paramount so maybe CF actually created a complete list of rules to be handed out as it says in the map) How many people get kicked out for their first line jumping offense? Hopefully, ALL OF THEM!!!!! Are you kidding, most dont even get kicked out of line. Also, unfortunately, "line jumping is cause for dismissal from the park is a pretty empty threat. You'd have to be getting caught by the same person who had enough authority to kick people out for something to really happen. Also with the whole, bar metaphor, I'm pretty sure being informed of the law IS your first warning, if you proceed to light up you should be kicked out. In addition, shortly after the law had been implimented, I was at an Applebees in Middletown when a guy at a high top asked for an ashtray. The waitress then informed him of the rules and law. The man proceded to light up a slim cigar. The manager then came out and told the man that if he did not leave the premisis, he would call the police and have the man charged with breaking the Ohio law, and failure to comply with the company's rules (since Applebees has been smoke free for way longer than this law has been in place) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BavarianBeatle Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I agree with your line jumping observation. There is virtually no punishment, which REALLY p***es me off, especially when I'm trying to teach my children to respect the rules and they have to see people doing that. I'm a smoker and I always use the designated areas and never jump the lines and tell my kids not to unbuckle their seatbelts before the ride "comes to a complete and final stop." They've caught me undoing my seatbelt early though and always give me a hard time about it........ ("We were still moving, DAD!!!!"...LOL!!!) My point is that, in the original posts in this thread it said that people were kicked out for making mistakes about the location of smoking areas, which is much different that : 1) smoking in queue lines; 2) giving park workers problems if they point out your mistake about a smoking area; and 3) line jumping ....... an honest mistake shouldn't warrant getting kicked out, but an intentional violation should!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I agree with your line jumping observation. There is virtually no punishment, which REALLY p***es me off, especially when I'm trying to teach my children to respect the rules and they have to see people doing that. I'm a smoker and I always use the designated areas and never jump the lines and tell my kids not to unbuckle their seatbelts before the ride "comes to a complete and final stop." They've caught me undoing my seatbelt early though and always give me a hard time about it........ ("We were still moving, DAD!!!!"...LOL!!!) My point is that, in the original posts in this thread it said that people were kicked out for making mistakes about the location of smoking areas, which is much different that : 1) smoking in queue lines; 2) giving park workers problems if they point out your mistake about a smoking area; and 3) line jumping ....... an honest mistake shouldn't warrant getting kicked out, but an intentional violation should!! I've seen people kicked out of line and kicked out of the park for line jumping. It's rare, but it does happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalefan Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 b. What law IN ILLINOIS, please, says a smoker must be informed to put out his/her cigarette before being asked to leave private property? Specifically, please. Besides, Six Flags Great America wasn't enforcing a law, but rather their own policy. If a law were being enforced, there probably would have been a citation and/or arrest, and charges filed. There was no mention of any of that, but rather that the patron was ejected from the park. As in asked to leave the privately owned property of Six Flags. I really doubt that if they could prove that either they were never informed of the rule or that they were singled out that they could fight it. Of course Six Flags can do what they please on the property, but it's also a business and they are held to certain standards. I work for Best Buy and they get sued all the time over the return policy (as I'm sure every retailer does) despite the fact that it's on a big board behind customer service and also printed on the back of the receipts. Our Best Buy's got fined by our AG of Ohio. It was due to them not going by the return rules and not taking stuff back even though they had unopened products and the products was returned within the 30 to 90 days said in the rules. So they got fined 5 million dollars by our AG. He had 500 complants phoned in to him within 2 months. This was in 05. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 ^Got a link to back up those figures? Id really like to read about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/20/be...y_ohio_lawsuit/ http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...75BC0A9629C8B63 http://www.doj.state.wi.us/news/2005/nr052405_CP.asp http://www.brianbehrend.com/archives/2004/...t_buy_being.php None of these have to do with 500 complaints or $5,000,000. Those numbers seem rather exaggerated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalefan Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/20/be...y_ohio_lawsuit/ http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...75BC0A9629C8B63 http://www.doj.state.wi.us/news/2005/nr052405_CP.asp http://www.brianbehrend.com/archives/2004/...t_buy_being.php None of these have to do with 500 complaints or $5,000,000. Those numbers seem rather exaggerated. The paper doesnt tell you everything and the 5 million is added up with the stores all together. And the news here in Columbus told all about the lawsuit. And it seems like everytime i say something about a law you guys either try to prove it wrong or think its not a law. Look it up. You be surprised what you will find. A law is made alot of times without anyone knowing it untill something happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Actually, the main reason for the Ohio lawsuit was that people were being sold "open item" products as new. However, I'm sure that in almost all cases it was an honest mistake. I've done it myself more than a few times. If the person before me gets something returned and puts it with the others without marking it, it can easily be mistaken for new products. You'd be surprised by how many problems can be resolved by simply reading. I have a number of media contacts that I have acquired through my work on here, and they call me all the time about people complaining to them and wanting them to do a story. I simply email them a link with the return policy as well as the service plan information, and that clears it up... almost always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalefan Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Its better if they read the return policy. I always do before i buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/20/be...y_ohio_lawsuit/ http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...75BC0A9629C8B63 http://www.doj.state.wi.us/news/2005/nr052405_CP.asp http://www.brianbehrend.com/archives/2004/...t_buy_being.php None of these have to do with 500 complaints or $5,000,000. Those numbers seem rather exaggerated. The paper doesnt tell you everything and the 5 million is added up with the stores all together. And the news here in Columbus told all about the lawsuit. And it seems like everytime i say something about a law you guys either try to prove it wrong or think its not a law. Look it up. You be surprised what you will find. A law is made alot of times without anyone knowing it untill something happens. Actually you provide your rather loose interpretations on the law or a news event and all we ask for in return is a link to provide some clarification to your vague claims. As Brown and Boddah pointed out, you gave a very vague interpretation of the story and they highlighted the actual facts to clarify what really happened. I still don't see how anything adds up to 5 million or where theres anything claiming 5 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 The paper doesnt tell you everything and the 5 million is added up with the stores all together. And the news here in Columbus told all about the lawsuit. And it seems like everytime i say something about a law you guys either try to prove it wrong or think its not a law. Look it up. You be surprised what you will find. A law is made alot of times without anyone knowing it untill something happens. Well it seems that you always want to have some sort of "lawsuit reasoning" for everything, but never back it up. Weather it is dealing with slander or threatening lawsuits against companies that make their decisions on their own private property, your reasonings are laughable. And ironically, I did look it up. And surprise, surprise; nothing about $5,000,000 was found. Unless you are trying to tell me that either: 1) No Ohio media outlet or national media outlet can add up all the *just Ohio* lawsuits against Best Buy. A *just Ohio* $5,000,000 lawsuit vs. Best Buy would be huge news, but nobody could figure it out? -or- 2) Columbus media outlets do not get published on the internet. So sure, there were lawsuits pending against Best Buy, but nowhere close to the numbers that you claimed to be true. Now it is funny that you bring up the "a law is made alot of times blah-blah". What exactly does that have to do with Best Buy losing a $5,000,000 lawsuit? Even if this whole Best Buy thing would be true, it does not make it a law if they are found guilty. Stick with Judge Judy and her buddy Judge Joe Brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 A fine that large by the Ohio attorney general's office would have resulted in wide spread publicity and press releases galore. Of course there were neither, nor was there such a fine in that amount... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 ^ Actually, now that you mention that... Certain courts can only handle up to a certain dollar figure. I wonder what the limit would be at the state level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 Amounts that large that are not publicized are usually the result of an out of court settlement. And such settlements are normally publicized far and wide, to deter others from engaging in the same conduct. Again, I seriously doubt there was any such a fine in that dollar amount. Why on earth would Best Buy agree to such a settlement, and if it was the result of a court verdict, first of all Best Buy would have appealed and second there would have been publicity. There was none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalefan Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Judge Judy is a fake just like all the other tv judges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Actuallly Judge Judith Sheindlin aka Judge Judy is a real judge who preisdes over a real small claims court... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Judy#Ab...udith_Sheindlin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Yeah! "The people are real. The cases are real. The rulings are FINAL." Duh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Butcher Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Um Ronny, Wikipedia? Now thats a scholarly source Actually if any of you can believe it, I am fairly sure that I am the first college student to ever get an A when mentioning Wikipedia in a scholarly article! Well...I guess my article was about Wikipedia...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 The fact that people make such a big deal about Wikipedia is a joke, granted anyone who signs up can contribute information, but at the same time it is moderated and all the info on that site is sourced back to other sites. But I digress, its not the credibility of wikipedia we're discussing, its the credibility of the smoking rules at SFGAm in Gurnee, Illinois. (and maybe Dalefan's legal experience ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalefan Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 If most of you guys was smokers then you would understand the things they go though. I am a non smoker and i think these laws are dumb. I bet if they banned beer or stopped selling it alot would get mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 They tried that once, it didnt work out that great... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_i...e_United_States As for these apparent struglles that smokers go through that your advocating for, I dont see how an amusement park asking smokers to just take their habit to a selective area(s) out of courtesy is really hurting or discriminating against that person. One of my good friends is a regular smoker and lives in Kentucky where the laws against smoking are no where near similar to the now current smoking laws in Ohio and he has absolutely no problem abiding by them and they dont seem to cause him any grief so I dont see what exactly your getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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