Update: New Names for KD Attractions Announced

[KIBeast]

^The only reason that I thought Head Spin was appropriate was because after going through the loop the first time and up the second spike, my head was literally spinning. So, I say appropriate, but not clever. Kinda like Back Lot Stunt Coaster. It's appropriate because simply, that's what it is, but still not clever.

It could be a lot worse. Look at some of the older coaster names that have been used before....SuperDooperLooper for one. Then, look at what really bad names that a lot of foreign coasters have.

[Browntggrr]

Quite honesty, I could care less what the names are changing to.

I'll just hope for the same thing I hoped for when plans for TR and IJ were announced: Please keep up with the themeing.

Paramount didn't, let's see if a name change and possible theme change will mean continuous upkeep under CF's watch.

[CoastersRZ]

Have you been to Cedar Point and experienced Disaster Transport? Not exactly a good indication for Cedar Fair doing any better maintaining the theming than what Paramount did. And in all honesty, for the most part, Flight of Fear has kept most of its theming relatively in tact. Yes, some things have vanished from it over the years like some lighting effects on the UFO, but for the ride being eleven years old, it has maintained its theming better than other themed rides at Kings Island.

[Gordon Bombay]

While, not the case with Tomb Raider, the theming on IJ was kept up....just most of it was never installed. Well....the headlights don't work anymore, the on ride sound is gone, but the police sirens came back after not working at all in 2006 and the smoke before the tunnel worked....nevermind. Ironically, most of the theming on KD's and Wonderland's IJ has been kept up last I heard. Given CF's track record with theming, even if TRTR or whatever they call it gets a theming overhaul, i dont expect much, nor do I expect it to consistently work. I can see it now.... TRTR is Disaster Warehouse, with a strobe light up top.....and thats it.

Little Known Fact....the "fishtailing" effect on IJ is there, its only prevalent, hardly at that, in the rear seat of the last car. It was just way overhyped.

[CoastersRZ]

Not true. I have felt the fishtailing in other than the rear seat of the last car. It is most evident, right at the end of the police car scene, right before the overbanked turn. (I should know, Bill and I got some some solo, back to back walk on rides on IJ on one of the Bare Bones nights.)

[Browntggrr]

Have you been to Cedar Point and experienced Disaster Transport? Not exactly a good indication for Cedar Fair doing any better maintaining the theming than what Paramount did. And in all honesty, for the most part, Flight of Fear has kept most of its theming relatively in tact. Yes, some things have vanished from it over the years like some lighting effects on the UFO, but for the ride being eleven years old, it has maintained its theming better than other themed rides at Kings Island.

You can't even compare DT at CP to any ride at KI for a variety of reasons:

1) 1985 to 1989 DT was actually Avalanche Run. A rather boring ride that had lines of 3+ hours when it first opened. In the couple of years that followed, the ridership for AR plummeted faster than Six Flags stock. Kinzel decided to try and save CP's $7.4 million investment and tried to make a new ride by enclosing it and adding some heavy themeing. Kinzel has since admitted that this was one of his worst decisions.

2) AR was never intended to be a themed dark ride.

3) Even today, DT does not have enough riders to justify spending money on keeping up with the themeing.

4) Entering 2008, DT is entering it's 20th season. For at least the first 8 years the themeing did operate.

5) Most of DT themeing was while waiting in line as opposed to the ride itself.

6) And even though there are some themed rides, CP has never claimed to be a theme park.

But now compare DT to rides that depend on themeing like TR and IJ is apples and oranges. Even with the themeing, DT may not be defined as a failed experiment, but it is darn close. And neither TR (2002) or IJ (2005) is even close to being a questionable ride or as old as DT is.

And actually, comparing DT to any themed ride is an insult to the ride itself.

[CoastersRZ]

OK. Fair enough.

But as you mentioned, they can`t justify spending money on the theming for Disaster Transport. While I understand that, because most of the theming on that ride (as you stated) was in the line. However, you also identified one of the reasons why the theming has failed on Kings Island`s rides. They developed these awesome concepts for heavily themed rides. (And you have to admit, that in 2002, TR:TR was a uniquely themed attraction for a seasonal amusement park.) But the problem was that the park didn`t increase the maintenance budget after the first season, to keep up with maintaining the thematic elements. Why? Because they likely didn`t see what return on investment the increased maintenance cost would have. (I actually remember waiting for TR:TR to open one day that first season, because they had repainted the "bamboo" handrails, and were waiting for the paint to dry!)

One of the things I miss most about Italian Job, is the working headlights, tailights and speakers. Those added tremendously to the ride experience. I was sorry to see those things disapear.

[Browntggrr]

They developed these awesome concepts for heavily themed rides. (And you have to admit, that in 2002, TR:TR was a uniquely themed attraction for a seasonal amusement park.) But the problem was that the park didn`t increase the maintenance budget after the first season, to keep up with maintaining the thematic elements. Why? Because they likely didn`t see what return on investment the increased maintenance cost would have. (I actually remember waiting for TR:TR to open one day that first season, because they had repainted the "bamboo" handrails, and were waiting for the paint to dry!)

That would still have been a Paramount decision to increase the maintenance budget after the first season.

But even at that, Paramount should have known how much to budget in the first place. Especially after only one year.

Again, my only hope is that whatever plans CF has for these rides, they keep up with the themeing. IMO the themeing for each ride is 50% of the experience. I would actually forgo a "new" ride, for older rides that are operating 100%.

[Cory Butcher]

I would like both of those please!

[CoastersRZ]

All I was stating, was that regardless of who owns Kings Island, they likely cannot justify the added increase in maintenance costs to keep the thematic elements functioning like they were brand new. Why? Because after said attraction is older then a few years old, people will not come to the park simply because of that ride any more. The park therefor does not have a financial reason to keep pouring money into maintaining the theming. Especially at a park like Kings Island that is a regional park and only operates for seven months of the year. The Disney parks are different because they are open year round and bring in the revenue to maintain the intense theming. Of course at those parks, the theming is a large part of what draws people to visit those parks. (Trust me, if you haven`t visited a Disney Park yet, even Tomb Raider in its first season pales in comparison to the theming those parks have).

[Browntggrr]

Well comparing Disney to any park is unfair.

But when I go to a park like Hershey or BGE and see that their themeing is immaculate, and then go to KI, it is hard not to be disappointed at the state of the themed rides KI has.

And those parks are open the same amount of time as KI.

[RingMaster]

(Trust me, if you haven`t visited a Disney Park yet, even Tomb Raider in its first season pales in comparison to the theming those parks have).

Technically, the one Disney park that Tomb Raider had beat was Disney's California Adventure. That park was a complete joke when it first opened up and shouldn't even have been considered a member of the Disney family.

Don't believe me?

Then ask yourself why they're in the process of pouring a billion dollars worth of expansions/renovations/remodeling to the park now, only six years after its opening?

Disney's California Adventure Re-Imagined

(Actually, the same could also be said with Universal's Islands of Adventure and their construction of the new Harry Potter island.)

[FOFirehawkFAN]

I would rather see Top Gun renamed to Thunder Road.

I agree bring back the original name!

[Browntggrr]

Now that I have been thinking about it; why didn't KI announce their name changes as well? I would have expected the same names for KI's rides as well, so why not announce at the same time?

Could it be because TR is being re-themed and promoted as a new ride for 2008? There still has been no '08 announcement yet.

Just a thought...

[Dvo]

Eww i really hope they don't stoop that low. Marketing an already-existing ride because of its new theming is poor practice if you ask me. But then again I bet Joe Bluecollar would see that KI is getting another new ride this year and would make sure that he went at least once to try it out. Still... I really don't like that idea.

[ragerunner]

Well comparing Disney to any park is unfair.

But when I go to a park like Hershey or BGE and see that their themeing is immaculate, and then go to KI, it is hard not to be disappointed at the state of the themed rides KI has.

And those parks are open the same amount of time as KI.

This is a great point. KI is not Disney or Universal Studios, but its attendance and income is very similar to Dollywood, BGE, Silver Dollar City, Hershey, etc.. and they all seem to keep their theming up very well, year after year. As well as food, retail, shows, landscaping, etc...

Many European Parks also manage to do this with the same attendance numbers and admission prices.

Maybe the owners (current and past) of KI have been taking more off the top then these other park operators take. Leaving less for the park to function with.

[Cory Butcher]

I dont think that its that, neccesarily. Allow me to dive further into this...

Kinzel stated a while ago that Paramount parks have up to 40% of their incoming ticket revenue from season passes, while the Cedar Fair Legacy park's season pass sales equate to roughly 10% of attendance. Passes at 84 dollars when used for just two visits makes each visit 42 dollars. In addition to that anyone that goes just four times with that pass only pays 21 dollars to visit the park. Assuming that number (4 visits), revenue wise, KI makes roughly 27 dollars less than Dollywood (price per ticket: $48) per admission (who assumingly has more of their admissions due to ticket sales, not pass sales than Kings Island).

Now Dollywood sells passes for around 75 dollars (Gold Pass is 106 dollars), Their number of season passes sold, I would assume is far from the number sold at the Paramount parks, due to its resort like destination much like our own Cedar Point. This means that Dollywood is still getting a premium on ticket revenue for each guest through their turnstiles of $48/ticket sans discounts. PP's according to Kinzel then would have roughly 60% of revenue from ticket sales, and sells tickets at around $42 ($30 if you buy on line in 2006). Best case scenario then, Dollywood makes at least $6 more per admission than Kings Island does per regular ticket sale.

You can easily see here, that Dollywood achieves a premium on their ticket sales, while Kings Island basically recieves scraps. Not to mention Ticket Sales is just one revenue account for both parks. Now, not to scare anyone, but think of all the people on here that purchased a season pass and went to the park more than 10 times, thats a little over 8 dollars a visit, far from the premium recieved at Dollywood! Where did all the theming go? Well I have a feeling it went to Dollywood and their premium revenue flow from ticket sales, along with their vacation destination area.

I will be the last person to influence an argument that states that Kings Island simply can't afford to maintain theming, because if there is a will, there is a way. However, I can not argue that in the current model there does not seem to be much feasability in maintaining the theming. What Cedar Fair will do though, remains to be seen, I hope they integrate a better model into the park so that we can have our theming, and ride it too!

[CoastersRZ]

In a fairly recent article, Dick Kinzel did say that the company underestimated the draw of season passes at the former Paramount Parks. He stated that season passes account for roughly 40% of the attendance at the former Paramount Parks. That number is around 10% when you look at the legacy Cedar Fair parks. That article was discussing how Cedar Fair didn`t at first realize the importance of season pass sales to the Paramount Parks. So your numbers in the post you made above are off, just a bit.

[Cory Butcher]

Oh, my mistake, I misread the "4" and interpreted a "9"! That is just an honest mistake, I will fix it!

[Gordon Bombay]

Now that I have been thinking about it; why didn't KI announce their name changes as well? I would have expected the same names for KI's rides as well, so why not announce at the same time?

Could it be because TR is being re-themed and promoted as a new ride for 2008? There still has been no '08 announcement yet.

Just a thought...

You could be on to something, we could be receiving different names however I've noticed that PKD tends to do a lot of press releases much earlier than KI in recent years. Typically their fearfest and most recently, Halloween Haunt press releases came out way before Kings Island's. PKD already announced (along with Carowinds) that next year Halloween Haunt will be included with a season pass and admission as well. It could be a sign that we are getting different names, however at the same time I wouldn't be shocked if they were the same. Cory and I were discussing the other day as to whether or not the mini cooper cars would have to be changed around or made to look different. Since the mini cooper (I assume) is seperate licensing than the Paramount/Viacom licensing, then I doubt that they would have to be changed. I do however wonder if they will have to be altered so as not to resemble the cars from the movie.

IMHO, they should finnally repaint Top Gun. Give it Orange Track and Black Supports and call it The Bat or "Return of The Bat". Hell, even maybe "Son of Bat".

[upstop]

Cory, Cedar Fair or Dick Kinzel never reported that up to 90% of the Paramount Park ticket revenue came from the sale of season passes.

However, in a fairly recent article, Dick Kinzel did say that the company underestimated the draw of season passes at the former Paramount Parks. He stated that season passes account for roughly 40% of the attendance at the former Paramount Parks. That number is around 10% when you look at the legacy Cedar Fair parks. That article was discussing how Cedar Fair didn`t at first realize the importance of season pass sales to the Paramount Parks. So your numbers in the post you made above are off, just a bit.

...in other words, he stroked the pen, and dictated changes without ever looking at the books to see what was working at the Paramount Parks. That is extremely poor leadership. He could have used what was working and expanded that to the other parks and increased money there by offering a better deal. Oh well, it was quick money to his retirement fund.

[Gordon Bombay]

Wasn't he supposed to retire and decided to stick around to watch over the PP acquisition? I say can both him and falfas.

[Cory Butcher]

Upstop, failure can lead to success. A mistake can tell a man more about himself than anything that just goes right all the time.

I have a good quote for you from Michael Jordan,

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed. "

Michael Jordan

Life is about making mistakes and seeing what you can do with them. Hopefully we shall se a great new era at the Cedar Fair parks!

[TH13TEEN]

^ Hopefully

[Delirium_Guy]

Well comparing Disney to any park is unfair.

But when I go to a park like Hershey or BGE and see that their themeing is immaculate, and then go to KI, it is hard not to be disappointed at the state of the themed rides KI has.

And those parks are open the same amount of time as KI.

I agree completely, which is why I have *****ed so much in the past about the state of KI's theming. It's unreal to compare Dar Kastle at BGE to Tomb Raider at KI. Hell, for that matter compare KD's Italian Job to KI's. As of 2007, EVERYTHING functioned on KD's....head lights, tail lights, fog, on-board audio (which was actually loud enough to hear). Amazing. I believe Paramount gave KI plenty enough in a budget, KI has just always spent it poorly.....please see that gigantic wooden mess in Action Zone.

On a side note though.....BGE isnt quite the same as Disney but they sure as hell give it their all!

- Todd

[The Interpreter]

As does BGA, and how. Busch and Herschend know how to do quality parks, in every part of the experience, from theming to food to entertainment to guest service to admissions. Cedar Fair is very good at thrill rides. . .

[Browntggrr]

Eww i really hope they don't stoop that low. Marketing an already-existing ride because of its new theming is poor practice if you ask me.

Well, what other choices do they have? The name has to eventually change, as does some of the pre-ride activities.

If I were in charge of a company and a decision was made to spend a good amount of money to drastically change something, I'd be sure to scream it from all the hill tops if it meant more paying people through the gates.

Kings Island did the same thing back in 1982 on Racer. Same ride, just a new direction.

You really can't expect KI to re-theme the ride and then not tell anyone.

[The Interpreter]

Hmmm....they made one of the best improvements to any ride ever when they changed the restraint system on Flight of Fear, and told virtually no one...but that IS kind of different . . .

[Cory Butcher]

That is something very hard to market to the public. The minute you say we changed the restraints, people think there was a problem beforehand. That's not neccesarily good pub. Not to mention the way you are held in a car usually has little to do with whether people will take their first ride on a coaster. For me, the only ride Ive ever been on that I said, wow these restraints need to change or I'm not sure I will be riding much more is Maverick and its god-awful restraints.

They could have made better OTSR's out of popsicle sticks!

[CoastersRZ]

I disagree. I think Kings Island could have marketed the new restraints on Flight of Fear. But, there really wasn`t a need. The restraints were such an improvement over the awful OTSR`s the ride opened with that it instantly became a big success with the public again, and word of mouth conversations were able to alert the majority of the public to the change.

I do, however, agree with you on the restraints on Maverick. I found my two rides on it in June to be unenjoyable, due to my neck slamming into the sides of the restraints. (I never rode in the front seat, but the second row and back row, both were equally painful). I was glad when the ride was over as my neck was no longer slamming into the restraints!