Help for The Beast

[The Beast Rider]

I have an idea that I think would solve both enthusiast problems with trim brakes as well as not create too many additional maintenance nightmares, and greatly enhance the experience on The Beast. The best solution would be to remove them completely, but that seems very unlikely. As everyone is well aware, the trim brakes are used entirely too much, and I think it detracts from the whole ride experience because of it. I also know that the trims that are on the ride are in the same location that they always have been, the real issue is the way they work. While I don’t like any of them, the one that aggravates me the most is the one in the brake shed. If they won’t get rid of the brakes completely, then I think they need to, get this, add more. It seems the opposite of what anyone would want, but hear me out. This way, they could loosen them up considerably, so the slow down is gradual instead of giving you whiplash. This would let the riders feel that they are going faster, but still achieve the slowing that the current brakes do.

Let the discussion begin!!

[The Interpreter]

I'm sorry but EVERYONE does not know the trim brakes are used entirely too much.

Define too much.

Define how you know this.

Define how much money is allocated each year to Beast maintenance.

Please tell us how you arrived at that figure.

And do tell us what amount should be allocated and how you arrived at that figure...

Also please tell us how you loosen up a magnetic trim brake.

Sigh.

[Gordon Bombay]

The magnetic brakes still slow the ride down to the same speeds that the skid brakes did. Beast is still a great ride and has gotten along fine with the current trim brakes for many seasons now. Keeps maintenance costs down, keeps The Beast running great, I doubt anything changes for 08.

[KIBeast]

Beast Rider, I know what you are getting at. Unfortunately, the skid brakes that used to be there are the exact kind that you are referring to. However, said brakes were replaced when a small collision happened in the station which is the reasoning behind the change to begin with. IMHO, The Beast needs no help.

[Thrill_Biscuit]

As an avid rider, I find The Beast to be a thoroughly enjoyable experience throughout. I'm no ride engineer, but I can say that someone has applied very balanced science to the entire braking system (even more impressive to me, given that Beast was designed and built without the benefit of today's computer technology). In my own opinion, the brakes on roller coasters add a certain sense of excitement - like you're being slowed down because of what's coming up next. Maybe I'm just used to it, but Beast's braking system seems to be just right.

[The Beast Rider]

I'm sorry but EVERYONE does not know the trim brakes are used entirely too much.

Define too much.

Define how you know this.

Define how much money is allocated each year to Beast maintenance.

Please tell us how you arrived at that figure.

And do tell us what amount should be allocated and how you arrived at that figure...

Also please tell us how you loosen up a magnetic trim brake.

Sigh.

1. I suppose you are right on that one. If everyone did, they wouldn't be there.

2. Any.

3. Ride experience, and as a Mechanical Engineer.

4. Makes no difference to this discussion.

5. See 3.

6. The additional cost of a couple more magnetic trim brakes. However, there is one on Racer that serves no purpose that could be used, and probably one on recaR as well.

7. Magnetic trim brakes work on magnetic principles. Move the magnet farther from the target, less force is applied to said target.

7. Sigh is right.

[Gordon Bombay]

Where is there a magnetic racer trim brake?

[KIBeast]

#4 It does make a difference. You can't just add stuff and say, well, we'll get the money from somewhere.

#5 See #4

#7 Maybe the brakes have to be applied that hard in order for The Beast not to tear itself up. Are you absolutely positive? When and how did you inspect The Beast's brakes to even come up with that solution?

[Browntggrr]

Money certainly is a huge aspect of why the brakes were added. Probably the most important reason.

Why? Not only will it cost more to make the necessary repairs, it is going to take time to do the actual work. And that time will not be done after the park closes, but during normal operating hours. And that results in downtime, which none of us enjoy.

But if the ride does happen to be down, it really does not "bother" us too much since many of us will be back at the park later in the week/ month/ year etc. It's those that can only enjoy KI once a year. While downtime does happen, it needs to be prevented at all costs so that those who are only enjoying the park once a year will be inclined to come back soon. If one of the best rides in the park is closed so that a small percentage of enthusiasts are happy, the park has their priorities in the wrong place.

[Beast1979]

As an avid rider, I find The Beast to be a thoroughly enjoyable experience throughout. I'm no ride engineer, but I can say that someone has applied very balanced science to the entire braking system (even more impressive to me, given that Beast was designed and built without the benefit of today's computer technology). In my own opinion, the brakes on roller coasters add a certain sense of excitement - like you're being slowed down because of what's coming up next. Maybe I'm just used to it, but Beast's braking system seems to be just right.

I couldn't agree more.

The Breaks in the Break Shed is my 2nd favorite part, and I think the way they do break the thing makes it seem more wild.

You go real fast, then you slow, then you pick up again. To new riders that is quite an experience.

[The Beast Rider]

I couldn't agree more.

The Breaks in the Break Shed is my 2nd favorite part, and I think the way they do break the thing makes it seem more wild.

You go real fast, then you slow, then you pick up again. To new riders that is quite an experience.

You've never seen what The Beast can do. Wait until you hit that curve at full speed, and then say the brakes are the best part.

Money certainly is a huge aspect of why the brakes were added.

But, all previous posts that the search bring up swears that no brakes were added to The Beast. They were there from the beginning, I'm pretty sure.

Where is there a magnetic racer trim brake?

Is the trim brake at the top of the hill at the turn around not magnetic? It sure does a good job of taking all the airtime out of the return side.

[Gordon Bombay]

That is a regular brake running on compressed air like the ones in The Beast station and Beast ready brakes before the station, and it's hardly ever used, if at all anymore.

[Jasper]

Ahhhh here we are again at the old discussion about the trim brakes on The Beast. Personally i hate them and i would love to see them go but i understand where all the maintanence and other stuff can be an issue because when you have a what 7or 8 ton train going over a track that is wooden and can not take that much stress at 65+ miles per hour you rise more issues with the track thus leading to a major bit of track repair every year.

[Tomkatt7]

I've heard this argument before, several times, about brakes on The Beast.

I've never added my opinion before, but here it is now.

Leave it alone!!!!!!

LOL

The Beast is my favorite coaster of all time. Nothing else even comes close.

I suppose it has to do with it being a kickbutt ride foremost, but also sentimental value comes into play.

I was one of those kids that was scared to ride ANYTHING!!!! It took several trips, and lots of nerve to finally ride it.

Now, I can't back to ride it again each year soon enough!!!

I have never pulled into the station after a ride and said, "you know, it could be better if....."

I'm too busy clapping and laughing, just like everyone else.

People that ride it sevral times a year may think they can make it better, but remember, I'll bet everyday that the park is open, someone is taking their FIRST ride on The Beast. Find that person and ask them if the brakes should be changed!!!

[dare-to-fly]

That is a regular brake running on compressed air like the ones in The Beast station and Beast ready brakes before the station, and it's hardly ever used, if at all anymore.

Since when is there ever a time that The Racer is running that the trim is not in use? I have only experienced this once in the past number of seasons.

And what everyone overlooked is the simple fact that the suggested idea does not involve any more or less braking. It was a simple suggestion that it be a more gradual brake over a longer period rather than slam them on all at once. That is how the brakes for The Beast were originally designed anyway.

As for the collision. The station brakes could have been replaced without replacing all brakes, so obviously there was money available for brakes. Otherwise they would have left the skids in place out on the track...and oh do I wish they would have. I'd love to be able to experience it with skids, or the occasional trimless ride.

I should also point out that the main reason for the belly-aches is it seems to brake more and more every season. And more importantly, it is the occasional phenomenal ride (like in the rain, at HH, etc.) that spoils you and makes you realize it when you get a slow ride.

[Browntggrr]

I should also point out that the main reason is it seems to brake more and more every season.

Brake more and more every season?

I'm not sure I understand your meaning...

[DeLorean Rider]

7. Magnetic trim brakes work on magnetic principles. Move the magnet farther from the target, less force is applied to said target.

True, however the magnetic brakes on The Beast do not adjust like this. I've had conversations with maintenance regarding this topic and on The Beast, there is no adjustment in the distance from the magnet to the fin; the way that the braking is adjusted is adding or removing brakes. Its difficult to make a precise adjustment because there aren't that many and the difference between adding and removing a break is pretty big.

[Delirium13]

I'm no expert, but couldn't they put the turns at a steeper bank and reduce stress on the track and lessen or eliminate the need for the trims?

[Outdoor Man]

[half-laughing]

like anything that is said/suggested on this will EVER actually inspire the powers that be to change anything based on the opions expressed.

[AZ Kinda Guy]

[half-laughing]

like anything that is said/suggested on this will EVER actually inspire the powers that be to change anything based on the opions expressed.

^Exactly my thoughts...^

IMO, it runs fine the way it is.

[dare-to-fly]

Who cares. We can still discuss it. Don't you ever discuss the weather? Does it change anything by discussion...um...no!

[Outdoor Man]

Sure I discuss the weather- but I stop short of saying things like:

if i could just get this cloud to go here instead of there- the angle fo the sunlight would be much better. now I may say that but not to the conviction that I actually think that my statement or belief in that statement would make it so.

or if i set multiple fans outside my house and point them upward that would cause a effective systematical climatic change that wiill cause more snow than rain to fall.

[The Beast Rider]

It wasn't intended as a life changing post. It was a simple matter for everyone to give an opinion. I realize the only ones that can change anything at all about the way The Beast runs is Cedar Fair. It is their coaster, not mine.

By the way, the brake on Racer is never off, I do not know what made you think it was never used. In all my many Racer rides, I have never been on one that this brake was off.

[Thrill_Biscuit]

^^LOL

[EDIT] I went over the top. Sorry.

[Gordon Bombay]

That is a regular brake running on compressed air like the ones in The Beast station and Beast ready brakes before the station, and it's hardly ever used, if at all anymore.

Since when is there ever a time that The Racer is running that the trim is not in use? I have only experienced this once in the past number of seasons.

-The majority of the time these trim brakes are not use. They were added back when The Racer's lacked head rests, still had buzz bars, and had two wooden beams running on the chassis of the car. Even back when the cars were this way the trim brakes were only used during the regular season till the end, as The Racer often requires the use of a 2nd chain to help it along its course when the fresh grease on its wheels is still getting broken in at the beginning of the season. This chain is located on the last hill before the split. When the trains were retrofitted with head rests and individual lap bars they were also given a steel beam to hold the brake fin in favor of the original wooden beam on car's chassis. These factors added a significant amount of weight but The Racer still requires the 2nd chain on the hills before the split and seldom has its old compressed air trim brakes on.

And what everyone overlooked is the simple fact that the suggested idea does not involve any more or less braking. It was a simple suggestion that it be a more gradual brake over a longer period rather than slam them on all at once. That is how the brakes for The Beast were originally designed anyway.

-Yes and they were removed in favor of what the park felt were much safer brakes after an accident, hence why everyone has shot down the suggestion.

As for the collision. The station brakes could have been replaced without replacing all brakes, so obviously there was money available for brakes. Otherwise they would have left the skids in place out on the track...and oh do I wish they would have. I'd love to be able to experience it with skids, or the occasional trimless ride.

-The station brakes were not replaced, and the collision did not take place in the station. The Beast still has the same type of station brakes it always has had. The skids were the reason for the accident, hence why they were removed and replaced with magnetic brakes.

I should also point out that the main reason for the belly-aches is it seems to brake more and more every season. And more importantly, it is the occasional phenomenal ride (like in the rain, at HH, etc.) that spoils you and makes you realize it when you get a slow ride.

-It does not brake more and more every season, and the rain has less of an effect than you think, which is why the magnetic brakes were added. No matter how slick the track is, the magnetic brakes stop it at the same speed, this was the problem with the skid brakes, they could be affected more so by the rain. There was an incident due to these conditions and then the skid brakes were removed.

As Elmer and AZ said, Beast runs fine, Beast is great, brakes wont change.

[CoastersRZ]

Actually, you could not have the old skid brakes out on the course of the ride and the new fin style brakes in the station. The reason is that the fins on the trains are mounted to the old skids on the bottom of the trains. These fins actually hang down below the old skids. Which is why when they redid the braking system, they had to remove ALL the old skid brakes. And the magnetic brakes have another advantage over pneumatic brakes controlled by air pressure. There are no moving parts, saving on maintenance.

I do believe, and I may be wrong, that early in the season they remove one or two of the magnetic trim brakes on the top of the second hill, as the trains usually travel a little slower until the trains are broken in for the year. This is the same reason why they actually have a moving chain at the top of The Racer before they split by the Action Zone in the first couple of weekends the park is open every spring.

[The Beast Rider]

That is a regular brake running on compressed air like the ones in The Beast station and Beast ready brakes before the station, and it's hardly ever used, if at all anymore.

Since when is there ever a time that The Racer is running that the trim is not in use? I have only experienced this once in the past number of seasons.

-The majority of the time these trim brakes are not use. They were added back when The Racer's lacked head rests, still had buzz bars, and had two wooden beams running on the chassis of the car. Even back when the cars were this way the trim brakes were only used during the regular season till the end, as The Racer often requires the use of a 2nd chain to help it along its course when the fresh grease on its wheels is still getting broken in at the beginning of the season. This chain is located on the last hill before the split. When the trains were retrofitted with head rests and individual lap bars they were also given a steel beam to hold the brake fin in favor of the original wooden beam on car's chassis. These factors added a significant amount of weight but The Racer still requires the 2nd chain on the hills before the split and seldom has its old compressed air trim brakes on.

And what everyone overlooked is the simple fact that the suggested idea does not involve any more or less braking. It was a simple suggestion that it be a more gradual brake over a longer period rather than slam them on all at once. That is how the brakes for The Beast were originally designed anyway.

-Yes and they were removed in favor of what the park felt were much safer brakes after an accident, hence why everyone has shot down the suggestion.

As for the collision. The station brakes could have been replaced without replacing all brakes, so obviously there was money available for brakes. Otherwise they would have left the skids in place out on the track...and oh do I wish they would have. I'd love to be able to experience it with skids, or the occasional trimless ride.

-The station brakes were not replaced, and the collision did not take place in the station. The Beast still has the same type of station brakes it always has had. The skids were the reason for the accident, hence why they were removed and replaced with magnetic brakes.

I should also point out that the main reason for the belly-aches is it seems to brake more and more every season. And more importantly, it is the occasional phenomenal ride (like in the rain, at HH, etc.) that spoils you and makes you realize it when you get a slow ride.

-It does not brake more and more every season, and the rain has less of an effect than you think, which is why the magnetic brakes were added. No matter how slick the track is, the magnetic brakes stop it at the same speed, this was the problem with the skid brakes, they could be affected more so by the rain. There was an incident due to these conditions and then the skid brakes were removed.

As Elmer and AZ said, Beast runs fine, Beast is great, brakes wont change.

WHAT??

"Two trains collided in the station during a rain-related shutdown of the ride. The second train failed to stop short of the station and slid into another train that was unloading passengers. Twenty people were taken to area hospitals with various injuries. No injuries requiring an overnight hospital stay were reported."

This is a quote from the Cincinnati Enquirer about the accident. What you are saying would have required two trains to be in the same block of the track at the same time, a condition that everyone knows does not happen.

Here is a link to the article.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2001/10/1...ders_taken.html

Also, in checking KI's website, it says that The Beast approaches 70MPH. According to ACE, the fastest it has been measured by radar in recent years is 57MPH.

[DropZone99]

The only part of The Beast i would like to see add a trim brake is right before the double helix. SOB's rosebowl doesn't bother me but The Beast's double helix does.

[nhimes90]

The Beast is perfectly fine in my eyes.

[Gordon Bombay]

WHAT??

"Two trains collided in the station during a rain-related shutdown of the ride. The second train failed to stop short of the station and slid into another train that was unloading passengers. Twenty people were taken to area hospitals with various injuries. No injuries requiring an overnight hospital stay were reported."

This is a quote from the Cincinnati Enquirer about the accident. What you are saying would have required two trains to be in the same block of the track at the same time, a condition that everyone knows does not happen.

Here is a link to the article.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2001/10/1...ders_taken.html

Also, in checking KI's website, it says that The Beast approaches 70MPH. According to ACE, the fastest it has been measured by radar in recent years is 57MPH.

Actually, I don't think you can speak for "everyone" because you obviously don't know what happened yourself. The Beast features 2 seperate blocks on it's brake shed and one in its station, the skid brakes, wet with rain, failed to slow down the train enough and allowed it to slide into the block ahead of it causing the collision. Blocks on coasters have fail safes, but the block system can fail. After the incident and the addition of the magnetic trim brakes, The Beast received a re-designed block system.

The only part of The Beast i would like to see add a trim brake is right before the double helix. SOB's rosebowl doesn't bother me but The Beast's double helix does.

It does have a trim brake there, as you descend into the double helix.