Trim Brakes

[Coasterkidman]

The trims are there so the park can save money.

Well, do you think they would NOT want to save money?

Trims do not make the ride more enjoyable.

And you know this how? In many situations, the train would be traveling to fast to smoothly handle an oncoming element, so the sensible option would be to add a trim so the ride is smoother in said portion of the ride.

Not to Mention, that the addition of trims frequntly causes less stress on the train, which causes for less frenquent tune ups, checking of the train, replacement of the wheels, and closure of the ride.

So not only does it save the park money (which can be spent on more rides), it makes for a more reliable, and most oftenly enjoyable, ride.

So when you sit there and Whine, and rant, and b*ch about trims just because they reduce the speed of the train, please take into consideration all the implications of the trim, good or bad, and don't complain because a park is making a good decision.

[tdsteele]

Everyone is intitled to their opinions, no reason to be rude about it. Trims for safety, totally agree, to prevent normal wear and tear, disagree, make modifications to the ride to keep the ride quality there, don't just bandaid it (stick a trim in), spend the time and money to do it right. As far as good decisions go, and i realize this comment will **** people off but life goes on, haven't seen to many good decisions at this park since paramount bought it, and doesn't seem like Cedar Fair is going to do any better. To me, a park is much more than the rides, and every year I see the beauty of the park disappearing to put in a ride in a bad location.

On that Maverick issue, I have never been there, only seen what I read on the net, so to hear that you do a launch straight into a trim brake because ur too fast for the upcoming elements, well thats the dumbest crap I have ever heard of!!! Slow the launch down, where is the common sense at here, wow....got to love those engineers!!

[Coasterkidman]

It is very stupid how they trim you down on Maverick right after the launch. You start going 70 mph, everything is wooshing past you're head, you feel you cant go any faster,

BAM!

You hit a trim. You've been reduced to about 10mph. I am not going to contridict my above post by saying it's pointless because it's not But really why launch 70mph and then slow the train by 20mph, when you can just launch it at 50mph?

[Zorba]

This isn't just a Cedar Fair thing. I know the Texas Giant's MCBR almost stops you, always have. I've never ridden it without the trims, so I have no idea if it hurts the ride. I know that it is already rougher than SOB with the trims, so I think it would be hell without them. EDIT: The Texas Titan's MCBR also does or almost stops the train.

Wild Cat (just like CP's) at Bell's had a couple of trims on it. Etc, Etc.

Most rides I can remember that have MCBRs use them and slow you way down, not just CF parks.

That being said I do HATE the jerkiness of a lot of the trims. I would think that you could make the brakes have less force over a longer distance. Does anyone have a picture of the magnetic trim brakes on The Beast?

[MrPostman]

I haven't willingly rode Vortex since they trimmed it to a crawl entering the corkscrew. Terrible. So pointless.

"But really why launch 70mph and then slow the train by 20mph, when you can just launch it at 50mph?"

Why not just let Vortex go 8 MPH the whole ride? yay. trims are the devil. I agree with the previous post why put a band-aid on a fire. Just beef up the ride do the maintenance and suck it up..

[The Interpreter]

I really don't know what adhesive bandages marketed by Johnson & Johnson have to do with trim brakes....

http://www.band-aid.com/

[CoastersRZ]

Not to mention, spoken by a person that likely had no idea on how much money is spent on maintenance for park rides in a given year. (Or the reduction in forces cause by trim brakes that make the ride more enjoyable for the general public, and can reduce injuries on rides).

And since The Beast`s magnetic brakes were installed, they have been applied in the brake shed the same amount. More magnetic brakes were not added in the brake shed after Cedar Fair took control of the park. Occasionally, they removed a few of the magnetic trims at the top of the second hill in the spring, until the trains break in for the season and the risk of valleying has been removed.

[Steve]

Gordon, um yeah there are. I distinctly remember feeling a big slow down on that flat area before you dip to the right.

[CoastersRZ]

No, they have not added any more brakes to the brake shed on The Beast since the magnetic brakes were installed. (And I`m not Gordon). The first car still makes it up to the first of the two egress stands on the second lift hill with the current braking system. And has done so since the brakes were installed. Under the old skid brakes, it still would reach about the same point, but would be less consistent. Some days it would climb higher (and thus be going faster) and on some days it was well below this (and be going slower). Of course, the amount of people in the train (and in turn the amount of weight on the actual train) also is a large factor as to how fast The Beast actually goes.

[MrPostman]

"spoken by a person that likely had no idea on how much money is spent on maintenance for park rides in a given year"

You mean like 99% of the general public? I don't care about maintenance costs, I don't care why they do what they do, I know there has to be alternatives to killing roller coasters, I care about ride experiences, and as far as Vortex goes that ride experience isn't fractionally as good as it was before they trimmed that corkscrew to DEATH. The train used to fly through that section giving an awesome sensation, it is dead as I knew it.

I go to KI to ride rides, not to evaluate their intentions and/or motives.

[DropZone99]

During Coaster Mania, i asked a ride operator if they could turn off the trims (thinking they wouldn't) but they actually did. The ride is much faster, but the last airtime hill in the tunnel before the break run kinda hurt. Later in the day, the trims were turned back on and the ride was almost not thrilling after the pretzel turn-around.

[dare-to-fly]

As to the "testing video" in question. Here is the link to the youtube video which has NO SKID BRAKES going into the helix. Please forgive me for not waiting for the rest of the video to load, but I believe the other three sets of brakes are there, BUT you will notice that there are voices on this video and therefore means there WERE people on The Beast at some point with no brakes on the helix! Dispute that!!!!!

This is also the video that everyone was amazed when you get to the helix to find that it wasn't tunneled. It should be an interesting watch providing you have a computer that is faster than mine.

Also, when you watch and use the argument that it looks no faster then than today, keep in mind that The Beast wasn't broken in yet. Undoubtedly it moved too fast for KI's taste which is why they were added to the helix, but still, imagine the crazy rides it would have produced for as long as they would let it live (somewhat). Oh, for a trimless ride...

I hope this will work. It was the URL that was there when I watched it. Confirmed...works!

[tdsteele]

Wow, amazing video, have never seen that before. Knew the tunnel wasn't added til after the first season, and to see those old original trains, just cool.

[odettekitrigisele]

As to the "testing video" in question. Here is the link to the youtube video which has NO SKID BRAKES going into the helix. Please forgive me for not waiting for the rest of the video to load, but I believe the other three sets of brakes are there, BUT you will notice that there are voices on this video and therefore means there WERE people on The Beast at some point with no brakes on the helix! Dispute that!!!!!

This is also the video that everyone was amazed when you get to the helix to find that it wasn't tunneled. It should be an interesting watch providing you have a computer that is faster than mine.

Also, when you watch and use the argument that it looks no faster then than today, keep in mind that The Beast wasn't broken in yet. Undoubtedly it moved too fast for KI's taste which is why they were added to the helix, but still, imagine the crazy rides it would have produced for as long as they would let it live (somewhat). Oh, for a trimless ride...

I hope this will work. It was the URL that was there when I watched it. Confirmed...works!

This was SO interesting to watch! All of the engineers standing here and there throughout the ride....

It looked cold and I'm guessing it was no where near opening time....so I guess that was maybe 78/early 79?

Weren't the tunnels added in 1980?

Dang that thing MOVED!

It's so polished today (of course) compared to that video, and thanks for showing it. I didn't know that one could even find great stuff like this!

Bravo!

I wonder if Charles Dinn was in there somewhere????

[KIBeast]

"spoken by a person that likely had no idea on how much money is spent on maintenance for park rides in a given year"

You mean like 99% of the general public? I don't care about maintenance costs, I don't care why they do what they do, I know there has to be alternatives to killing roller coasters, I care about ride experiences, and as far as Vortex goes that ride experience isn't fractionally as good as it was before they trimmed that corkscrew to DEATH. The train used to fly through that section giving an awesome sensation, it is dead as I knew it.

I go to KI to ride rides, not to evaluate their intentions and/or motives.

The brake before the corkscrew on Vortex is not a trim brake. It is a Mid Course Brake Run, which is very handy in keeping two trains from entering the same block and possibly colliding. The MCBR could make the train come to a complete stop, but it ususally only slows you down because KI is pretty good at dispatching trains. Not to mention, the MCBR on Vortex has always been there.

[Browntggrr]

The trims are there so the park can save money. Trims do not make the ride more enjoyable.

Yes the trims are there to save money.

Trims are also there to increase uptime. If there were no trims, then the coaster would need to have more maintenance done, which would increase downtime. A trimmed coaster is better than SBNO.

And no matter what you want to believe, trims are there to make the ride more enjoyable. The amount of G's an untrimmed coaster can put on a person's body makes it unridable for most people. Coasters are there for everyone's enjoyment, not just for the small percentage that can withstand the amount of force an untrimmed coaster can exert. Along with the amount of G's is also the amount of headbanging that occurs with OTSR's with an untrimmed coaster. FoF was a good ride with the old restraints, but with the new restraints it is fantastic. Why? Well, the headbanging is gone. Which is why trims on Maverick are in place, and why Steel Phantom was modified to Phantom's Revenge, and also why Drachen Fire was removed. The more headbanging that is present, the less enjoyable the ride is. Trims can reduce the amount of headbanging that occurs for a majority of the people, not for the small percentage that know how to "ride" a coaster.

You don't like trims. So be it. But you have two choices:

1) Deal with the fact trims are here to stay no matter how much you complain.

2) Start your own personal boycott of the park until the trims are removed.

[Browntggrr]

As to the "testing video" in question. Here is the link to the youtube video which has NO SKID BRAKES going into the helix. Please forgive me for not waiting for the rest of the video to load, but I believe the other three sets of brakes are there, BUT you will notice that there are voices on this video and therefore means there WERE people on The Beast at some point with no brakes on the helix! Dispute that!!!!!

Yes, I will dispute that.

This video was originally on an old u-matic tape that I purchased some years ago and transferred to VHS. This is simply a video of Beast prior to the ride actually opening.

http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=875

If there WERE people on The Beast w/o the skid brakes, you can thank them for the introduction of the brakes due to how forceful the ride was in the helix. They were the test dummies for one of Beast's first rides.

[Austin]

SAVE MONEY??? WOW. just WOW. I thought they made enough money from their FOOD prices. what do they need to pay for that they charge $100 for a hamburger, and they can't afford maintenance for The Beast to actually LIVE? Cedar Fair SUCKS!

[Coasterkidman]

^Ugh. Please, think about what you're saying.

[dare-to-fly]

He just voiced his opinion.

Now I will once again voice mine briefly. Trim brakes to save on maintenance is a terrible way to run an amusement park. There, I said it, I mean it, I'm not going to change my mind, and sadly, likely neither will they. I can still complain when I see world class coasters being trimmed to death. I still enjoy them all every time, but the possibilities make me sick.

[The Interpreter]

Austin, please list where in the park a hamburger is $100. This would make quite the news story.

[coaster_junky]

o.k. have they removed or just turned off the trim break before the loop on Firehawk? because of the first two times i rode Firehawk i could hear it but i rode it this year i didn't hear the break.

[Coasterkidman]

I didn't know that they had a trim on Firehawk? Maybe you can only feel them when you're sitting down, not laying down.

[coaster_junky]

I didn't know that they had a trim on Firehawk? Maybe you can only feel them when you're sitting down, not laying down.

you could hear it pretty well.

[flightoffear4thtrain]

"spoken by a person that likely had no idea on how much money is spent on maintenance for park rides in a given year"

You mean like 99% of the general public? I don't care about maintenance costs, I don't care why they do what they do, I know there has to be alternatives to killing roller coasters, I care about ride experiences, and as far as Vortex goes that ride experience isn't fractionally as good as it was before they trimmed that corkscrew to DEATH. The train used to fly through that section giving an awesome sensation, it is dead as I knew it.

I go to KI to ride rides, not to evaluate their intentions and/or motives.

The brake before the corkscrew on Vortex is not a trim brake. It is a Mid Course Brake Run, which is very handy in keeping two trains from entering the same block and possibly colliding. The MCBR could make the train come to a complete stop, but it ususally only slows you down because KI is pretty good at dispatching trains. Not to mention, the MCBR on Vortex has always been there.

Good dispatch times... I think not. The only three, I mean 4 crews at Kings Island that deserved to be recognized for fast dispatches are the Backlot Stunt Coaster Crew, Son of The Beast Crew, and Flight of Fear Crew. Oh, I forgot one more, the Fairly Odd Coaster Crew, they barely stack the trains on a 0:59 second ride. That's amazing.

[Browntggrr]

He just voiced his opinion.

Now I will once again voice mine briefly. Trim brakes to save on maintenance is a terrible way to run an amusement park. There, I said it, I mean it, I'm not going to change my mind, and sadly, likely neither will they. I can still complain when I see world class coasters being trimmed to death. I still enjoy them all every time, but the possibilities make me sick.

How do you know if the coaster is "world class" if it has always been trimmed?

[flightoffear4thtrain]

He just voiced his opinion.

Now I will once again voice mine briefly. Trim brakes to save on maintenance is a terrible way to run an amusement park. There, I said it, I mean it, I'm not going to change my mind, and sadly, likely neither will they. I can still complain when I see world class coasters being trimmed to death. I still enjoy them all every time, but the possibilities make me sick.

How do you know if the coaster is "world class" if it has always been trimmed?

That's a good point, what if a coaster is awful without trim brakes. You would never know.... You can only predict.

[stewwill]

In the early years of The Beast, they would keep the brakes off for the first 3 or 4 runs of the day to break it in. The Beast without any breaking is a great ride. I understand the maintenance issue but even through the helix, it was not overly rough. All woodies have some roughness but The Beast flew over the track. It was an experience I will never forget. And, back then, you really had to hustle back when the park opened. Within 30 minutes, the quene was totally filled and went out a couple of hundred feet. You just had to be there.

[Gordon Bombay]

^Honestly, I doubt that. That would require maintenance workers going out and manually adjusting the counterweights on the skid brakes, something I highly doubt they would do with people on board the ride. They would probably test the skid brakes in the morning and have the ride ready for guests in the morning. Also the ride never ran with "no brakes." There was always some form of trim brake installed on the ride and operating. Adjusted yes, but totally gone, no.

As for Firehawk's "trim brake," both as X-Flight and Firehawk the ride never had a trim brake before the loop, the sound you heard could have been any number of things.

Trim brakes to save on maintenance is a terrible way to run an amusement park.

Lets see, numbers of parks run trim brakes on coasters to save on maintenance costs every day (KI did on The Beast since day one). Every day hundreds of people come to ride those coasters and ever year those coasters provide great rides and those folks keep on coming back. Awful way to run an amusement park? If properly maintaining a ride, keeping the riders safe, all while providing a world class coaster ride is an "awful" way to run a park, then I'd really, really like to know what a better way is.

[Browntggrr]

In the early years of The Beast, they would keep the brakes off for the first 3 or 4 runs of the day to break it in. The Beast without any breaking is a great ride. I understand the maintenance issue but even through the helix, it was not overly rough. All woodies have some roughness but The Beast flew over the track. It was an experience I will never forget. And, back then, you really had to hustle back when the park opened. Within 30 minutes, the quene was totally filled and went out a couple of hundred feet. You just had to be there.

So you were an employee of the park to experience the initial test runs of the day?