AZ didn't really see many internationals outside of sends, now that I think of it. But back to the subject of capacity, you also have to figure in crew chemistry. If a crew doesn't get along, work properly, or just plain doesn't listen to anybody, capacity usually goes down. I didn't see much social interaction at CP, but I have seen some at PKI sometimes. Y'know... being an associate and all. lol.

But here's a little tidbit I heard from word of mouth about CP's safety... take it with a grain of salt.

"Capacity is more important than safety"

O_o

~S~

I totally agree with you on the Cedar Point thing. I have first hand experience about that. On Millenium a lady's seatbelt came undone and everyone on the train noticed it but no employees. Finally we got some attention and half the train was on the lift stopped. We were stopped for about twenty minutes. They really need to realize that yes capacity is important but on their rides it's very easy to get hurt or even more serious.

This is very true. I didn't really see much of height checking when I was at CP either. Most of their associates just looked disjointed and bored. On top of that, they are not as hawkish as we are about the handrails. I only heard the op at Big Wheel mention anything about the "Silver Railing".

But anyway, on top of their maintanence issues (*cough*TTD Cable*cough*), they need to watch their safety. I would rather have to wait in line a little longer than fly out of the train. Back here, if we even miss a seatbelt, we get written up. Not to say they don't have a safety policy, they're just not as attentive as we are.

~S~

I didn't really see much of height checking when I was at CP either. Most of their associates just looked disjointed and bored. On top of that, they are not as hawkish as we are about the handrails. I only heard the op at Big Wheel mention anything about the "Silver Railing".

But anyway, on top of their maintanence issues (*cough*TTD Cable*cough*), they need to watch their safety. I would rather have to wait in line a little longer than fly out of the train. Back here, if we even miss a seatbelt, we get written up. Not to say they don't have a safety policy, they're just not as attentive as we are. 

~S~

This whole post is BS. Until you work there or sit and watch a crew for a week, you have no proof to back up these claims...As for the "maintenance issues" regarding TTD, don't even get me started on TR:TR.

It's like I said. Just because its not the Kings Island way of doing things, that doesn't make it unsafe or wrong.

THe reason TTD cable snapped was in the computer systems and not the cable. For some reason the computer told the motor to give it enough power to send the train at 150 MPH. This then put the cable under to much stress and it snapped the cable.

~Joe~

I think both parks are concerned with safety. Almost all incidents at both parks are either freak accidents, or relatively unavoidable.

I do feel very safe at PKI, but don't let safety be an excuse to have a minimum capacity. It only takes a second to check a lap bar. Never sacrafice safety for anything or anyone, but remember that all of the patrons are watching you. If you're BSing rather than working, your neglegance is more dangerous than almost anything else you can do.

For now, keep up the good work!

This whole post is BS. Until you work there or sit and watch a crew for a week, you have no proof to back up these claims...As for the "maintenance issues" regarding TTD, don't even get me started on TR:TR.

It's like I said. Just because its not the Kings Island way of doing things, that doesn't make it unsafe or wrong.

Ouch, I have officially been roasted. Please pardon my ignorance in that sense. It was mostly me using my visit to CP as a base for my argument. I failed to realize what he mentioned. But yeah. I don't even want to think about TRTR at the moment..

But anyway, Boddah makes a good point about safety and capacity. If we have that kind of happy balance with those two things... we can be safe and efficent.

~S~

I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see a large internationals hiring program at the Paramount Parks next year...given who just acquired them...

Yeh-pki pretty much has the wordt ride ops. At Cedar Point (especially raptor) you could be safely out of the station in 20 seconds. At pki they are lazy and they fool around too much(ex-i was at Delirium and the q was full. The ride was stopped and the ride ops were talking to each other playfully over the entire ride intercom when they could have been checking restraints-i was NOT HAPPY)

You are saying they shouldn't take more than 20 seconds to dispatch a ride? Delirium takes at least a couple minutes. And even on Vortex - if the ride operators beat the bell - they still can't dispatch until the lift block is ready for the train. So it is IMPOSSIBLE to reach the maximum theoretical capacity on Vortex - unless they speed up the lift.

An employee told me today that there are only two things Cedar Fair cares about.

Capacity

Apperance

Last year there were some Internationals from Turkey, I became good buddys with 4 of them. I have seen and heard other Internationals spoke very little good english. On the rides, early this year and past years staffing was low even for the big rides. What the park would love to do is, lay everyone off and bring in cheap Mexican labber .

As someone who has ridden both MaXair and Delirium many times, I defy you to show any major differences in dispatch times between Cedar Point and Kings Island. There isn't any. Same thing for Troika vs. Shake, Rattle and Roll.

Coasters? Now, that's another story. Especially on, say, Raptor or Corkscrew vs. Vortex. Mean Streak vs. Beast... Gemini vs. Racer. etc., etc.

On the other hand, service at most Kings Island grab and go foodstands is MUCH faster and better than at Cedar Point, at least in my experience.

Okay since you guys are saying that KI staff in so great then what about when I went on FOF and I pulled my lapbar down and put on my seatbelt on the side of the lapbar but for some reason it came loose and my seatbelt was was undone from my lapbar. One of the staff members checked my bar but did not nocticed my seatbelt was undone either did I. But they should notice and look at people`s seatbelts. I did not realize this until after the corksrew. I was not that scared but I was mad at that staff member. Nothing really happend to me though.

...As for the "maintenance issues" regarding TTD, don't even get me started on TR:TR.

...and coming from a 2005 Delirium employee.

Anyway, I agree 100% that most employees at PKI keep guest relating and safty in mind. I would think that a guest would rather have a employee take the time to make them feel safe with a good guest relations, than a hope-in and ride.

Okay since you guys are saying that KI staff in so great then what about when I went on FOF and I pulled my lapbar down and put on my seatbelt on the side of the lapbar but for some reason it came loose and my seatbelt was was undone from my lapbar.  One of the staff members checked my bar but did not nocticed my seatbelt was undone either did I.  But they should notice and look at people`s seatbelts.  I did not realize this until after the corksrew.  I was not that scared but I was mad at that staff member.  Nothing really happend to me though.

OK, since you're saying that CP employees are so good, the first time I rode TTD the lead train in the station was dispatching with a seatbelt undone and a guest in the stalls noticed it and had to tell a ride op. "They should notice and look at people's seatbelts." You can find problems with something anywhere you look. Granted, a problem with a restraint isn't something to just shrug off, but don't act like CP doesn't have questionable associates.

I did not say one thing about CP staff. And that was only one staff employee. If I did critisize KI staff then I am sorry.

Ok rant time...

Well to let you know our min at Vortex is now 7 2 at Troika (shake Rattle and Roll) 1 Vortex Driver 2 on unload and 2 on load. so in reality we have 4+ on the floor only days that they bring us down to 1 on load and 1 on unload is if the park is understaffed. So i guess it is the same as CP Magnum. Oh and to let everyone know we have Power hours about every hour or so which means we try to get trains out as fast as possible, Wile still following ALL of the safety rules.

Vortex making a long line seem long but making it go fast!!!

Im not bashing the park here at all but....... PKI has had more deaths than CP. I'm not excatly sure how many people died at PKI I think like 4 or 5 and I know that CP has never had a death at the park.

Thats because CP does the same thing that Disney does: they dont announce the time of death until the person leaves the park. That way they die in tranit, not on park property.

I never heard of anyone dying at CP.

CP is 136 years old, and many people have died there in that long history. Now for modern times the truth is out there...

Thats because CP does the same thing that Disney does: they dont announce the time of death until the person leaves the park. That way they die in tranit, not on park property.

This was debunked by Snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/disney/parks/declare.htm

HAs anyone died since Blue Streak was built? I just want to know.

I think some people on here are full of it. Cedar Point cares just as much about safety as they do capacity. Otherwise, their accident record would be enormous and out of control. I've seen just as many ride ops and crew at KI failing to properly check restraints and even have things go unnoticed. Just because you saw something like this happen on your one and only yearly visit, doesn't mean this is how it works all of the time.

I don't even want to get in to the story where my brother was crushed by an auto gate at Vortex and no one noticing or doing anything about it.

CP is 136 years old, and many people have died there in that long history. Now for modern times the truth is out there...

Do you have any sources for that bit of insight?

I don't even want to get in to the story where my brother was crushed by an auto gate at Vortex and no one noticing or doing anything about it.

Hey, I think I remember that story. Didn't you post that like a year or so ago?

I think some people on here are full of it. Cedar Point cares just as much about safety as they do capacity. Otherwise, their accident record would be enormous and out of control. I've seen just as many ride ops and crew at KI failing to properly check restraints and even have things go unnoticed. Just because you saw something like this happen on your one and only yearly visit, doesn't mean this is how it works all of the time.

I don't even want to get in to the story where my brother was crushed by an auto gate at Vortex and no one noticing or doing anything about it.

Thank You PKI Beast.

I don't even want to get in to the story where my brother was crushed by an auto gate at Vortex and no one noticing or doing anything about it.

That happens alot when people run out as the gates are closing. One time - I announced on the loudspeaker - if you are going to ride on this train - please take your seats NOW - the gates are closing. There were these people just standing there looking at with a dazed look on their faces. So after a couple seconds of them not doing anything I toggled the switch. Then the littlest of the group jumps out and the gate smashes into him and pins him to the queue rail. 95% of the time it is the guest's fault... But when it isn't the guests fault - which is RARE - we always try to open them again right away when we realize that there is someone stuck - but it takes a second or two for the system to respond...

I think all the rides need to start a policy like Holiday World uses - and Italian Job has - where the guests have to stand behind a yellow line on the ground - that is more than arms reach away from the queue gate. It would prevent over enthusiastic kids from jumping in front of moving machinery.

Yeah, smurf, that was about a year or two ago.

Klockster, it had something to do with the restraint was down, my brother's ex-wife was trying to get in the train, and my brother was waiting and got pinned by the gate. He yelled for help to no avail. Can't really remember how it ended, other than he went to Guest Relations to complain.

Ok rant time...

Cedar Point on Magnum will have 4 people checking bars.  Vortex has 2.  Cedar Creek Mine Ride has 2 as does Express, but their first block is longer.  It's all about the length of the block and popularity of the ride at CP.  However, at KI every coaster has 2, sometimes 3 on a good day.  Also, the one woman that died on a RIDE at KI, wast he woman on Flight Commander, and she had undone her safety hernesses, so that's not operator error.

It's not the fall that killed her on FC it was that sudden stop!

Yeah, smurf, that was about a year or two ago.

Klockster, it had something to do with the restraint was down, my brother's ex-wife was trying to get in the train, and my brother was waiting and got pinned by the gate. He yelled for help to no avail. Can't really remember how it ended, other than he went to Guest Relations to complain.

There was one time I got yelled at while I was on the floor - for the gate pinning someone. The gate slammed closed on this kid running for an empty seat. I saw it out of the corner of my eye going for him, and I grabbed the gate and pulled back on it - but it just ended up throwing me. Tried to stop it though - and still got yelled at for being a F***ING IDIOT for pinning their kid - and of course I (who had nothing to do with it) got a bad GR.

Still that sucks about your brother. I would have gone to GR too if they just didn't notice it and let him sit there pinned for a bit. It has happened to me - and didn't hurt that bad to me - but I imagine it could hurt or be really scary for a kid. But usually - we realize someone is in the gates as they're closing - and try to flip them open as soon as possible.

I've never understood how someone gets stuck in a gate.

Ya know, if ya see them closing, ya get the hell out?

What is so hard about that concept?