Coney Islander Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Earlier today, it was announced that Apollo Management, a "private equity" investment firm is looking into buying a large amount of stock in Cedar Fair Entertainment Company... What do you feel about this news, and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Also being discussed here: http://www.KICentral...view=getnewpost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyMan98 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Yes but this is a poll. So it's kind of different...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 That's why it says also, so those who visit this later can read all about it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coney Islander Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 To start the discussion, I have a feeling this will be a good thing... I'm thinking this company would invest more into shows and entertainment, whereas Cedar Fair seems to invest mostly into Rides and General park improvements. (Though I do hope these "general park improvements" do continue...) I'm dreaming a return of the Salt Water Circus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 It all depends. If this is the company I think it is, they will buy the park, add many visible upgrades (Rides, Park look, etc) and sell it for more. Then our next owner could be Private Management, or Six Flags. I fear our next owner more then this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Perhaps more than most chain theme parks, Kings Island has had owner after owner after owner, and never had a long term vision of what it is, what it wants to be when it grows up, or consistency in management and philosophy. As Beast1979 has noted, this may well be yet another transitory owner...for a brief time. Or not. And this could still not happen at all. Another buyer could come forward and offer more. This deal could fall through. Or be nothing but a rumor. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsipus13 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 who are the apollo management Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 A private equity firm that owns, among other things, AMC Entertaiment, Harrah's Casinos and Claire's dress shops. They also did buy Linens N Things, but watched as it went bankrupt.... Much more here: http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20462 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I find questions about whose hands may one day be on my park unsettling. Apollo is an investment group. They go in, raise the value and get out (if all goes well). They have no intention of holding onto the parks. That's just not what they do. So this Apollo thing is likely just transitional. That means we'll see another new owner sooner or later. Who's next? Another park operator? Another investment firm? If it's another investment firm, then who will own them after that? This could turn into a vicious cycle. But hey -- I could be wrong and Apollo could see the capital value in this and hold into the parks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) As I have said in the past, Kings Island is rather unique in the number of ownerships it has been through. The continual changing of management, and managers, has resulted in a lack of consistency of purpose, of vision and of what the park wants to be. From theme park to amusement park to show park....from a strong emphasis on shows to almost none at all to somewhere in the middle...from world class food to near fast feeder mentality at a premium price...from pay one price to quite a few upcharge attractions...from closing Labor Day to having Winterfest to not having Winterfest to Fear Fest to Winterfest back for a single season to Halloween Haunt.... What the future holds no one knows....yet. And the Apollo thing is far from a done deal. From the now six lawsuits against Cedar Fair to the possibility of the unitholders not giving the deal the 2/3 approval it needs to the possibility of one or more regulatory approvals not being secured to the possibility of another buyer materializing during the now underway 40 day shop around period.... Edited December 28, 2009 by The Interpreter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Yes, it could mean a revolving door of owners. However, that is not necessarily the case. Skyline Chili was sold in 1998 to Fleet Equity Partners, a New England based investment firm. They still own Skyline to this day. Skyline has continued to add new locations and continues to be a successful business venture. Clearly they were not interested in the buying of a distressed company and raising its value then selling it off for a profit mantra. This may not be the case for Apollo who is clearly looking to buy Cedar Fair for a discount, with the logical assumption of being selling it at a later point in time for a profit after the value has increased. Only time will tell what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidd33 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Turning CF into an attractive investment opportunity for another may take some time. The company has an enormous amount of debt and getting that to a level that makes it attractive to other buyers will almost certainly be a multi year process. Of course the sale could fall through or Apollo could decide to sell of individual assets or a number of other things could happen, but I think if the sale is completed we are looking at 3-6 of Apollo ownership. (Just my opinion.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Three to six months? Terpy, who wouldn't be all that surprised... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BavarianBeatle Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 A lot depends on who holds the debt and how strapped for cash they are..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Covenant = a promise. Current debt has many convenants, most not publicly disclosed. It is well known that at least one, if not more, of those covenants is in danger of being breached in the next quarter...and if that happens, the lenders can recall the entire balance of the relevant loans. This could get interesting. Mr. Kinzel and his board did not recommend that the company be sold for any reason other than that that was the best available remaining choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidd33 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Three to six months? Terpy, who wouldn't be all that surprised... I meant years lol but I suppose you never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I think it just goes to show you how not only familiar with ownership change we are, but how typical it seems to us, when the deal hasn't even come through yet and we're guessing how long they'll be in charge. There are some parks who go decades upon decades without seeing ownership change, if they do at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Oftentimes, these are small, family parks. Absent really good estate planning, a death often causes the park to sell or close. There are times when even with good estate planning, the park still closes when an owner dies. Sometimes, the heirs cannot agree how or whether to run the park and the park closes (Whalom Park comes immediately to mind....). That being said, these are very challenging times for parks in general. All of them are under a great deal of economic stress, and some are handling it better than others. Even with the best of economies and superb management, Cedar Fair buying Paramount Parks, particularly at the price they did, was a stretch and financing it over time would have been very difficult. Then, the financial crisis hit. Management continued to run Cedar Fair as it had in the past, and the results were not the same as they had been in the past. Large capital investments did not necessarily bring in the huge, immediate economic returns they had in the past. Then, the money for those investments began to dry up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 And another thread from the past worth reading given what we know now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyano Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm so glad that Apollo didn't buy Cedar Fair 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrill_Biscuit Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I know. Me, too. He's got bigger fish to fry up there on Mount Olympus anyway. [insert comical music bumper from "Laugh-In" here] Tb, who's also glad, say, 3G hasn't shown an interest. Yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Anyone interested in a long, detailed history of The Story of Q and Mr. Raynor OR How Dick Kinzel Got Thwarted In His Efforts To Collect Incredible Parting Gifts, see: http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php/topic/20462-cedar-fair-sale-re-finance-what-next/ This may be the best, ongoing history of that saga extant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfanatic83 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I just spent hours reading through that entire thread. Fantastic, informative read for those of us who weren't around when all that went down.It is interesting to consider what may have been... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Flight Back Deck Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 "What is not but could be if..." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.