2011 what should KI get

[westcoaster]

a few flats would be great!!!

[Hank]

How about a new family coaster - something like the motor bike coaster?

[thekidd33]

^ That is one area I think the park has covered very well actually. Woodstock Express is a fantastic first coaster for little ones and Flight Deck, Adventure Express, and to some extent, even Backlot and Racer are great rides for families.

I think some new flats in Coney Mall would be awesome and I really like the idea of a complete circle from X-Base to the dead end of Coney Mall that was mentioned earlier.

[Hank]

^ they need something different in the coaster line - not bigger, higher or faster, but a machine unlike other parks.

[jandyb79]

I suspect that any new additions will be added in the Coney Mall area next year (or year after). If you'll notice there is a rotation for each area due for renovating, and the Mall hasn't been touched up in years. I believe that they will eventually use the area where the old Flight Commander pad sits (maybe the pad itself will eventually be used for a flat ride), in addition to the cleared unused space on that end of the Mall. JMO

~Josh

[bkroz]

I think KI should strive to beat Kingda Ka for the Tallest Roller Coaster in the World

Why? Do you know how much that costs? Top thrill dragster was 25 million (according to rcdb) Something even taller then both of them would be over 30 million.

Is that the only reason you can think of why we shouldn't get an Intamin stratacoaster?! Haha!

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

^ Bigger Maintenance nightmare than Son of Beast.

[The Interpreter]

Nope....

Terpy, who dissents

[Beast1979]

Dragster had it's issues worked out. Ka's still a troubled one, but never doubled the original cost...

[selective]

I've been waiting for a coaster like "X" at Six Flags Magic Mountain in California to come to Kings Island.

At the moment X is the only one and it's on the west coast. If Kings Island got one, it would be the only one on the east coast.

Or maybe a coaster/water ride! I always thought it would be cool to get shot at with water while riding a coaster. Maybe even ride through walls of water! Just an idea. Sure water rides get you really wet, but what other than a coaster could do it at really high speeds so you feel the wind at the same time!

[Diamondback96]

But KI is not on the east coast.

[selective]

I have another idea..........

What about a roller coaster you ride upside-down, then when you go through a loop you are right-side-up for only a second.

This would have to turn right-side-up for the break areas though, cause if it ever broke down there's no way I want to be stuck upside-down.

Being upside-down gives the illusion you are billions of feet high or suspended over a bottomless pit of nothingness! And no one will pass out cause all the blood will rush to their heads. Talk about FEAR, this Would BE IT!!!

The only questions are... Can it be done and would it be safe?

[CoastersRZ]

Well, the Flyers made by B&M are somewhat similar it sounds like to what you are talking about. In the station, the track is like normal inverted track. The seats tilt back and up into the flying position, unlike Firehawk where the seats tilt down.

See this image on RCDB to see what I am talking about: http://rcdb.com/1977.htm?p=6365

[selective]

Not what I was thinking though.

Imagine riding Kings Island's Vortex... you get pulled up the first hill, then the cart does a roll at the top of the hill, then you are riding it under the track instead of on top of it, and you are seated so you're completely upside-down. I only used Vortex as an example because this is the seating position I'm thinking of, only upside-down. Never Done Before, EVER!!!

The biggest problems I would see with doing something like this is the head would be hanging and exposed so the cart design would have to be made extra safe to protect the head in the rare case it came off the track and landed on the ground below. Another concern I would see is all the weight being put on the restraints (more than other coasters) because of the shoulders.

My biggest fear is being upside-down, but I would probably ride it if it was built!

One advantage to a ride like this is it wouldn't have to be very high off the ground to scare the **** out of people.

[bkroz]

I'm sure it's possible, but who would want to ride it? And thus, who would spend money to design and build it? Many of us can recall the hangtime in Tomb Raider: The Ride. Why you'd want to do that, but flying down a hill at 55 miles per hour I certainly don't know.

[TH13TEEN]

^^ All Kings Island needs as of now is a water park expansion. There is no way Kings Island is getting that. This is for 2011 the possible year Cedar Fair goes and files bankruptcy. To be honest, I don't think we will see something to big for our 40th anniversary either.

[selective]

Going Solar and converting the whole park to free electricity is another option.

[TH13TEEN]

^ No one in there right mind would make a park eco green! Plus it takes green (money) to go green... green that quite frankly no one has.

I hope that post was a joke....

[selective]

No... it wasn't a joke.

Actually I know how to build and install solar systems, and the idea it costs too much is just from fear of not knowing anything about it.

If I knew how much power they used on a daily basis, and on a weekly basis, and then on a monthly basis, I could even give an exact estimate of what it would cost because then I would know how much electricity they need to produce and how much they need to use.

I can already tell you it would be less than one million to convert the entire park to free electricity, and a new ride each year usually costs about 20 million, so yes it can and should be done.

[TH13TEEN]

^ Good luck.

[Diamondback FOF]

Less than one million dollars to install solar panels for the park, to produce all of its electricity needs? That seems waaaaaaayyy too cheap. The park uses a ton of electricity.

[CoastersRZ]

I think your estimate of converting the entire park to solar power is grossly underestimated. It would cost more than a million dollars to update the electrical system. Photo voltaic systems (the proper name for solar panels) are quite expensive because they are not being mass produced right now. Furthermore, they require a significant amount of area to produce adequate electricity. While they can be placed on roofs of buildings (and Dollywood has actually installed some PV panels on their tram stops in the parking lot), they are not currently feasible to power an entire park. Why is that?

Well, remember that Cincinnati sees a lot of cloudy days. PV panels become even less efficient when it is cloudy out. When it is really cloudy, they are essentially useless until the sun comes out. They also are not very efficient (in the range of 60 to 70 percent) because they produce electricity in direct current, which then has to be transformed into alternating current, which is the standard in the United States. Another factor, is that electricity cannot be effectively stored. So even if the park were to install PV panels, they`d still have to be connected to the grid. And, electricity produced by coal (which is what is used primarily in the Cincinnati area) is relatively cheap per kilowatt hour. PV is more expensive than coal per kwH. There simply isn`t a financial incentive for the large outlay of capital to switch over to solar electricity.

Not to mention an amusement park presents some unique challenges in terms of energy usage. Some rides, such as Flight of Fear and Backlot Stunt Coaster require lots of current each time the Linear Induction Motors fire. This in and of itself is not ideal for solar electric systems. And that is why most amusement parks have not adopted solar power systems.

Even most large companies have not really started to incorporate large scale PV systems into their property. Some stores, particularly Wal Mart, have begun to look at the possibility of adding PV cells to the roof areas of their stores, because of the large amount of land that there stores cover, and the fact that Wal Mart can directly effect economies of scale. Moreover, recent changes to Wal Marts and Kroger stores has seen the introduction of skylights into the stores that allow the stores to typically not need to turn on their artificial lighting system during the daylight hours, effectively saving them energy costs. And when stores like Wal Mart do install PV panels, they see a benefit because of the large volume of stores that they own and operate, and thus the large amount of utility bills that they have to pay. Amusement parks don`t have the same economies of scale advantage as what Wal Mart or other big box stores have that have hundreds of locations in the US and around the world.

[Diamondback FOF]

Thank you, sir, for that very nice explanation

[bkroz]

Yes CoastersRZ, that was very informative! I get the feeling that, if it cost $1 million to power an entire theme park forever on free energy, the entirety of the USA could be converted to running 100% on solar energy for less than the government spends in a typical week.

[CoastersRZ]

A few years back, I did extensive research on Photo Voltaic cells for one of my elective seminars that focused on the 2007 Solar Decathlon.

In fact, the end result of that class was that all ten of us produced a lot of diagrams looking at the design and energy efficiency of the twenty Solar Decathlon houses. (My main focus was on how the 20 designs utilized PV panels). The professor took our drawings and developed a book over the next year using our drawings as a basis. The book "Precedents in Zero-Energy Design: Architecture and Passive Design in the 2007 Solar Decathlon" is available through Amazon herehttp://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20777&pid=370454&st=200entry370454. My name is listed in that book, as well as several of my drawings. Pretty cool to say that some of my work has been published along with my name. (And technically my entire thesis document and design is also published online and searchable by anyone at an Ohio University).

[Fear the Four]

No... it wasn't a joke.

Actually I know how to build and install solar systems, and the idea it costs too much is just from fear of not knowing anything about it.

If I knew how much power they used on a daily basis, and on a weekly basis, and then on a monthly basis, I could even give an exact estimate of what it would cost because then I would know how much electricity they need to produce and how much they need to use.

I can already tell you it would be less than one million to convert the entire park to free electricity, and a new ride each year usually costs about 20 million, so yes it can and should be done.

Do you know how much power it takes to run rides. I did some research and here are some examples.

Delrium(giant frisbee)- 470kw

The crypt(giant top spin)- approx 500kw

HUSS rides

Back lot stunt coaster(LIM Terrain Following Coaster) 3,700kw but I'm not so sure on this one.

Premier rides

Could solar sytems be used for powering rides? No

[bkroz]

They could certainly be used to help alleviate power expenditure here and there, but we're a long way from solar power being a fully-usable resource.

[TH13TEEN]

^ Point is no park will ever function on any eco driven energy.

[alluna]

It is entirely possible to run large amounts with electricity with solar panels. Larry Hagman, (Major Nelson from I Dream of Jeannie and J.R. from Dallas) has enough solar panels on his property that he actually generates enough energy to sell back to the city and power the houses that surround his house! I think the simply quoting how much energy it takes to run each ride isn't a feasible argument on what could provide that energy. You have to also look at how much kw an array of panels can put out.

Larry's ranch is on 43 acres. From his realtor: "Hagman is a major proponent of alternative energy and equipped his estate with one of the largest residential solar power systems in the United States. When Hagman first installed the system in 2003, his annual electric bill plummeted from $37,000 to $13. His system generates some 150,000 kilowatts per hour enough energy to power not only the entire estate, but a dozen or more average households."

150,000 kw per hour provided by a system installed on private property. Imagine what could be done if a theme park budget took some land and put solar panels on it. Even if you didn't set up the system to power ALL of the electricity needs, a system like this can ALWAYS offset the cost and use of resources. I think that some people here are missing the point. Offsetting a percentage of the cost is still a significant savings. It would take time to install an array of panels to cover all electricity needs, but a small portion of existing panels will still save lots of money and offset those energy needs.

So even if you have an array that only puts out 150,000kw per hour, like Hagmans, that would be 319 rides on Delirium per hour (a silly amount, I know, but I'm going with the numbers already provided), 40 rides on Back Lot Stunt Coaster per hour, or 300 rides on The Crypt per hour (again, an unlikely amount per HOUR, but you get the idea.)

Do you know how much power it takes to run rides. I did some research and here are some examples.

Delrium(giant frisbee)- 470kw

The crypt(giant top spin)- approx 500kw

HUSS rides

Back lot stunt coaster(LIM Terrain Following Coaster) 3,700kw but I'm not so sure on this one.

Premier rides

Could solar sytems be used for powering rides? No

Simply saying 'ooh' and 'ahh' at the number of kw needed to provide BLSC with power is not a good basis for a statement such as 'Could solar sytems be used for powering rides? No '

Yes, it sounds like a lot of power, but solar panels are quite capable of producing it.

EDIT: Just for reference, I looked into it and Hagman's amount of solar panels are the size of a football field. An American football field is 120 yards long by 53 1/3 yards wide. That means it takes a little over 1 acre to generate 150,000kw per hour.

EDIT PART DEUX: Also, there is an off-season at KI where the produced energy could be sent right back into the Mason grid. Essentially, KI could sell the unused energy to the city during these months.

[CoastersRZ]

Yes. But as I`ve said, the investment on a per kilowatt hour basis is still more expensive than coal power. So parks have little incentive to invest the capital. And while his utility bill drastically decreased, it doesn`t mention how much money he invest in reducing his utility bill. Given the huge surges seen when some rides operate, solar power is unrealistic to provide all the power to a park. Can a park use solar power to help offset some peak demand energy usage and save a little bit on their energy bill. Of course. Has it been done before. Yes, see my example of Dollywood. Is it something most seasonal parks are going to do? No, because they are not open year round, and would not likely see a big enough benefit.

And technically, they would be selling the energy back to Duke, since Duke Energy Ohio has the service area in Mason.