OFFICIAL! Son of Beast Will NOT Operate in 2010

[trevor75]

And if they failed? I'm sure that would be GREAT PR for them. Why take the chance?

If they failed what difference would it be than now?

[TH13TEEN]

^ More fail?

[CedarPointer]

And if they failed? I'm sure that would be GREAT PR for them. Why take the chance?

If they failed what difference would it be than now?

1. The park wasted money that could have been used for a new ride.

2. The company that attempted another fix would have its reputation damaged.

3. We'd still have an enormous turd in Action Zone.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

Cedarpointer how many times must you read sunk costs are irrevelant. I really hope you never take a Economics class, as you would certainly fail if you can not grasp that concept.

Also did KI not gamble when they installed Diamondback? Every big decision KI makes is a risk, so should they not take that risk?

We ALL know you hate SOB, but try and not be a one sided politician. There are 2 sides to everything, not just your side.

Yes SOB has had some major issues, but does that mean it has no potential to be great? Absolutely not.

[Shaggy]

Folks,

Take a step back and look at SOB without wearing fan glasses.

Imagine you had a 10-year-old car that had required a major engine overhaul on 3 seperate occasions. What if that car had cost you double what the original budgeted expenditure should have been. Add in the fact that the car had an issue that provoked a serious accident injuring several people. What if that accident prompted a multi-tiered lawsuit, and insurace issues. Finally, what if 75% of those you know refuse to ride in the car because of it's past history.

What would you do with the car?

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

Shaggy how can you compare a car with a Coaster? Where are you getting 75% of the people dont want to ride SOB?

[Shaggy]

Shaggy how can you compare a car with a Coaster? Where are you getting 75% of the people dont want to ride SOB?

How can I not? They are both a mechanical conveyance device, no more no less. A coster is a machine, just like a car, no more no less.

You could also compare it to a printing press, or die cutter. It's a mechanical device used within a business to create/sell a product. If said device consistently breaks down or is inconsistent, and costing the business reveue then what needs to happen?

75% is a guess... and trust me, it's a really good guess, probably conservative.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

How many cars can fit 20 or more people in them? How many cars run automatically, or steer by themselves? Cars need humans to get from one point to another, coasters need a mechanical boost then physics take over.

So you have not surveyed EVERYONE who visits Kings Island to ask them if they would ride SoB if opened?

My point is there is no way any of us can accurately say yay or nay on this ride because we do not have all the information. And it just ironic that you tell others not to be biased but fail to be unbiased yourself.

[Shaggy]

FF EKU dawg

You're essentially comparing the number of wheels on a coaster train to the 4 on a car and saying I'm wrong. I'm not talking physical simularities as much as I am logistical. Step outside the box for a moment to see my point...

I'll spell it out.

KI is a business. It's no different than a store, or a factory or a business office.

KI exists to sell a product and generate revenue for it's owners. The product it sells is what they call "an experience."

The rides/costers within KI act as mechanical devices that deliver the product, the "experience."

It's no different than a computer network system being essential to an office, or a cash register in a store, or a press in a factory. The business relies on their reliability.

As far as the car comparison... the car is the product, much like the "experiences" sold at KI. Cars and amusement ride experiences are both highly marketable. However if unreliable, unsafe, or hindered by bad word of mouth, they become a liability to the company that stands to lose revenue.

As a businessman... if the press in the factory breaks down, costs revenue and ultimately jepordizes safety of those using it, then I have to look at what merits it's use. If the product is compromised, such as a recurring bad engine in a car, then you have to directly address that. If something within a business hinders the product, then it makes sense to cut it lose or move past it. That, in fact, is a very simple and understandable way to easily say "nay."

Going back to my original response, when talking business sense, one CANNOT look at a rollercoaster with fan glasses on. But enthusiasts very often confuse/view them in that way because we have had such significant and enjoyable "experiences" with them in our lives. However, rides and coasters are simply mechanical devices (irregardless of their use of inertia or not.)

In the case of SOB, I am willing to bet money that the officials are (or were) simply comparing the following to make their decision:

1. Profitability

2. Cost of overhaul

3. Marketability

4. Value of real estate (value of the land it sits on when compared to future expansion)

5. Reputation

BTW, I don't recall telling anyone to be "unbiased." I just told people to look at things from a different perspective. This is hardly a personal matter, so don't read it as such.

Shaggy

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

What you say is true but you can not make the comparison between cars or any other mechanical machine you listed to a coaster. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. A computer network system does not have the ability to kill people.

The experience of a car is different than the experience of an amusement park. It apples to oranges

[Shaggy]

I stand by my statement.

Ask any judge that ruled on any amusment attraction lawsuit. It's a mechanical device.

[DropZone99]

75% is a guess... and trust me, it's a really good guess, probably conservative.

There is no way 75% of people don't want to ride Son of Beast. Being known as the guy who knows everything about coasters at my school, everytime I mention Kings Island I get asked about Son of Beast.

"Did Son of Beast finally open?"

"Nope."

"Aww that sucks, I love that ride."

I'd say 75% of enthusiasts don't want to ride Son of Beast, but I bet 90% of the general public wants to ride Son of Beast. When it was open, it almost always had a long line (not in time, but in length). Some people didn't like the ride, some people were afraid to ride it because it's reputation, but most people did ride or atleast wanted to. It's a very popular ride, and I know tons of people who miss it. Even my Mom misses Son of Beast, she said it was her second favorite coaster at Kings Island (Diamondback is her favorite). She also said that she never has problems on Son of Beast, but she also said that she hates Beast because it's too rough. And yes, she has ridden it since the retracking.

[Shaggy]

Okay then, how about this...

I'd say 75% of the general public doesn't care, or even think about SOB. And that's being EXTREMELY conservative.

IMO, SOB never endeared itself to the general public. That's been one of it's biggest downfalls. It doesn't have the empassioned following of The Beast. For that reason, KI could remove it, install something more reliable, and the general public would be satisfied. Had it aquired the esteem that The Racer or Beast have, then we'd see a public furor over a pending removal.

It doesn't have that type of clout.

[CedarPointer]

Cedarpointer how many times must you read sunk costs are irrevelant. I really hope you never take a Economics class, as you would certainly fail if you can not grasp that concept.

I'm talking about the cost of a repair. If they spent millions on a repair that did not fix the ride, they would have wasted that money. And, SoB has NOT had a good track record with repairs working- I highly doubt that the last however many times they tried to fix it, they weren't hoping it would be a permanant fix. Why flush more money down that toilet?

[HTCO]

Take the hint everyone

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

.

If they spent millions on a repair that did not fix the ride, they would have wasted that money

.

That would be a sunk cost at that point. Just like the 30 million already invested.

And, SoB has NOT had a good track record with repairs working- I highly doubt that the last however many times they tried to fix it, they weren't hoping it would be a permanant fix. Why flush more money down that toilet?

Do they not retrack every wooden coaster in the park every year? Wooden coasters need more maintenance than steel, no matter how good or bad the ride is.

[Beast1979]

You guys.....at this point I'm neutral on Son of Beast. If it's torn down, great, room for more rides. If they (try to) fix it, great, a new experience, it could be good. I really couldn't care less.

And you know? Shaggy's got a point. He always does. Comparing a coaster to a car is nothing more then an analogy. FF EKU Dawg 4life, you're trying desperately to make apples and oranges out of it, but in reality they both convey people, need to be insured, are sold to people (Yes, a coaster is sold to someone, they pay for admission to ride it) can be more or less safe then others of it's kind, and need maintenance and are investments. Saying that a car needs a driver and therefore it's different means nothing when you're talking about the car itself. Take the Toyota mess over the last few months. A malfunction in the car causes it to not function properly, resulting in injury and possible death. The same is possible for a roller coaster, the driver had no influence on the end result of the numerous Toyota incidents. And now the manufacturer has to consider whether to fix the problems (Lots of $$$), then market it back to people (Good luck!), and still hope to make a profit, or take the faulty cars off the market permanently. On that scale, it's no different then an amusement park trying to re brand a ride with a dirty history.

DropZone99, I took you for more intelligence then to fall back onto the wait time length argument. Here, let me say what has been said on here for years: LINE LENGTH MEANS NOTHING. You're making wide generalizations about the popularity of the ride by saying 'People at my school love it!' and 'My mom loves it, it's smoother then Beast!', then smashing Shaggy (Who, no offense, probably has much more information and is much more knowledgeable on the subject) for making a rough claim on it's popularity. I can do the same thing by saying 'I rode it in 2008, and I heard tons of people getting off who warned people in line not to ride it, they said it's awful!' And it would be just as accurate as your description. The truth is, Son of Beast not being open this year probably won't have any effect on park attendance or satisfaction. With 14 other roller coasters (And rides like Beast, Racer, etc who've reached a mainstay status at the park), a new kiddie area, and a probably even better Halloween Haunt coming up in October, the idea of One Ride which has been open and closed throughout it's history, has had mixed reviews and infamous accidents, being closed for the year doesn't make a difference. To put it simply: The General Public Does. Not. Care.

I'm certain a lot of these factors have been taken into consideration by park officials over the last, what is it, nearly a year now? They've taken into account all the sunk cost (Yes, it's gone, but those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Learn from mistakes), the fact that it'd be a tough marketing ploy to get back to (The Son of Beast name at this point probably has no value anymore, it's already instantly associated with the issues of the last decade), the cost of a future repair and it's effectiveness (At this point, I think we've seen a simple retracking simply doesn't work), and how long a repair would last, among others. Now, who are we to say what's the right idea or not? We have no knowledge of the park's budget, it's 5 year plan (Which I doubt featured closing Son of Beast, but again, don't know), how much it would cost to go either way, and what effect it would have on park experience and, most importantly of all, ticket sales and in park spending. We simply don't know, so why should we be the ones petitioning to 'Burn it Down!' (Which is getting very old) or 'Save it!' (Which is sounding very desperate) when we are unaware of how truly little we know.

We make up less than 1% of the park's guests, mind you. While we like to think we're important, in reality, our opinion on any ride's future is not exactly a crushing issue.

[Ki Man]

178 174 177 176 173 167 148 133 131 136 Son of Beast (SBNO) Kings Island OH

From left to right, 2009, 2008, etc until 2000.

http://www.ushsho.com/woodpoll16yeartable2009.htm

That's SOB's rank of the 181 wooden coasters in the world that had enough votes to be ranked in Mitch's poll.

Let's set fire to Action Zone....Drop Tower will survive though because it's immune to fire. Everyone knows that.

[HTCO]

^Delirium isn't that bad.

[IndyGuy4KI]

If they (try to) fix it, great, a new experience, it could be good.

Considering how well they done this year with PS and BBOBH, I feel that KI is heading in the right direction to make this ride awesome as well. I am glad they are taking the time to make the right decision for this ride. I would rather it be SBNO for 2 years and get a great ride out of it, than trying to get it up by next season and be ok. I believe the ride has the potential to be a crowd pleaser, it will just take some time.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

178 174 177 176 173 167 148 133 131 136 Son of Beast (SBNO) Kings Island OH

From left to right, 2009, 2008, etc until 2000.

http://www.ushsho.co...artable2009.htm

That's SOB's rank of the 181 wooden coasters in the world that had enough votes to be ranked in Mitch's poll.

Let's set fire to Action Zone....Drop Tower will survive though because it's immune to fire. Everyone knows that.

So Mitch is God now? Why does his opinion matter more than any?

Jackson Toyota had a glitch in their mechanics, if SoB has a glitch in a mechanical issue the ride shuts itself down. Cars dont shut themselves down. So again yes they are both machines, I am not denying that. But they are 2 different types of machines. Apples and Oranges.

[CedarPointer]

That would be a sunk cost at that point. Just like the 30 million already invested.

Do they not retrack every wooden coaster in the park every year? Wooden coasters need more maintenance than steel, no matter how good or bad the ride is.

1. Yes, which is why I'm saying that they shouldn't spend it in the first place.

2. Completely? Noooooo...

[Captain Picard]

Cars do shut themselves down. Ford uses a fuel cutoff switch if you have a accident.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

That would be a sunk cost at that point. Just like the 30 million already invested.

Do they not retrack every wooden coaster in the park every year? Wooden coasters need more maintenance than steel, no matter how good or bad the ride is.

1. Yes, which is why I'm saying that they shouldn't spend it in the first place.

2. Completely? Noooooo...

When was the last time SoB was retracked completely?

Cars do shut themselves down. Ford uses a fuel cutoff switch if you have a accident.

A little late if the accident already happened? Coasters can shut off before there is an accident

[Captain Picard]

That would be a sunk cost at that point. Just like the 30 million already invested.

Do they not retrack every wooden coaster in the park every year? Wooden coasters need more maintenance than steel, no matter how good or bad the ride is.

1. Yes, which is why I'm saying that they shouldn't spend it in the first place.

2. Completely? Noooooo...

When was the last time SoB was retracked completely?

Cars do shut themselves down. Ford uses a fuel cutoff switch if you have a accident.

A little late if the accident already happened? Coasters can shut off before there is an accident

Like what happened with SOB?

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

The accident on SoB was not a mechanical incident, but a structural failure. The park fixed the structural problem by removing the loop, getting lighter cars and retracking the problem area. They did just enough to pass inspections and be allowed to open the ride back up. There was not an "accident" last year but a complaint. One person crying injury late out of the hundreds that rode it that day and since is not an accident.

[Captain Picard]

The accident on SoB was not a mechanical incident, but a structural failure. The park fixed the structural problem by removing the loop, getting lighter cars and retracking the problem area. They did just enough to pass inspections and be allowed to open the ride back up. There was not an "accident" last year but a complaint. One person crying injury late out of the hundreds that rode it that day and since is not an accident.

How do you know if there has been an accident or not?

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

^ Good point, only one big reported accident. Again one person complaining is not an accident, or having problems after ignoring a doctor and/or warning signs about preexisting conditions.

[Braves0511]

It's not necessarily apples and oranges...It's more like..."Granny Smith Apples to Golden Delicious..."

Whatever they do with SOB is their decision. Whatever floats their boat, and keeps the money rolling in. Either way, I just hope it's done right, I think the time is past for throwing things at it and hoping it sticks. I believe this is the last ditch effort, either whatever they're doing now works, or it's gone. We'll see. I think it still has potential...It just needs that extra push.

[Ki Man]

178 174 177 176 173 167 148 133 131 136 Son of Beast (SBNO) Kings Island OH

From left to right, 2009, 2008, etc until 2000.

http://www.ushsho.co...artable2009.htm

That's SOB's rank of the 181 wooden coasters in the world that had enough votes to be ranked in Mitch's poll.

Let's set fire to Action Zone....Drop Tower will survive though because it's immune to fire. Everyone knows that.

So Mitch is God now? Why does his opinion matter more than any?

It's a poll, made up of votes from, I don't know...hundreds? thousands? of people. Who said it was Mitch's rank on SOB? Oh, he's Jesus by the way.