BoObKiNoS Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 OK, nothing to do with PKI, and i honestly dont know the answer, but why did they go bankrupt? How does a company such as them who has coasters running all over the darn place loose money. X was a huge project for them...did they spend too much money designing and making it? I dont get it. I've worked on an arrow coaster for 3 years....and i am a huge fan. Does anyone know exactly what happened? I know S&S bought them out and all...but what happened that forced them to file chapter 11? Anyone know... i'm just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOB/Gun Steve-O Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Well, Drew: If you remember the microeconomics class that you kept complaining about in the post-season, you should remember the law of diminishing marginal returns. It states that once you reach a certain point, it is actually detremental to produce more of a product, because the revenue per unit (a ride in this case) AKA the marginal revenue will go down. Roller coasters cost a lot of money to build, and I'm guessing the marginal revenue of Arrow was not that high in the first place - how much money can you make when you only sell one or two units a year anyway? So, to answer your question, they were probably making too many rides, to the point that it became unprofitable to keep the company running. Or maybe the CEO just went out and screwed everybody like they did with Enron or WorldCom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrfyter Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 A lot of Arrow's bankruptcy had to deal with X, the probelms with parts braking on it, SFMM pushing Arrow for a ride, that Arrow was not ready to release yet, and when they did and SFMM had problems with the ride, they sued Arrow. Arrow in turn filed a countersuit against SFMM, and as they say, that was the beginning of the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOB/Gun Steve-O Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 OK, that's probably a much more simple and correct explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars1825 Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 (edited) Does anyone know exactly what happened? A lot of sh*t that wasn't supposed to happen, happened. Or maybe the CEO just went out and screwed everybody like they did with Enron or WorldCom. Something to that extent. Edited January 1, 1970 by mars1825 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryler87 Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Even though that I don't care that much for Arrow coasters, they seem to last what seems like FOREVER. It is too bad they went under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianchef Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 I'm sad to read that Arrow is going out of/went out of business. This is the first time I have read of it. I'd like to get Boddah's opinions as he is an ardent admirer of Arrow. Have a great day! Italian Chef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 (edited) Arrow didn't actually go under / go out of business. When they were having their financial woes with SFMM and X, they were purchased by S&S Power of Utah. S&S Power also, like many of you know, hired Denise Dinn to create S&S's wooden coaster division after CCI going under. After the aquisition of Arrow Dynamics by S&S, they were for a moment called S&S-Arrow, but S&S later dropped the Arrow nametag and the future "Arrow" coasters will be under the S&S Worldwide nametag. S&S Worldwide is primarily known for their tower rides, and their compressed air technology, but they are now trying to make a name for themselves in the coaster business. S&S / Arrow / Whatever You Wanna Call Them are currently perfecting the 4D coaster technology, along with developing new coasters that will use S&S's compressed air launch technology. While the name "Arrow" will no longer be around, new "Arrow" coasters will be still popping up in future. Edited January 1, 1970 by Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StXBomber Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 I'm actually glad. I'm getting somewhat sick of Arrows. PKI has enough of them, and I wish PKI would build other types more. Preferably B&M. I rode X this summer (a 3 hour wait by 10:15 (they open at 10). I feel it is the most overrated ride ever. Way too rough, and I couldn't even enjoy it. I like the 4D design, but unless they just fix the problems like roughness, the idea is ruined. I hope S&S will improve on Aarow's designs. Their rides have always been too rough, and if I want a rough ride I'll ride a woodie, not a steel. Steel rides are to be smooth, like B&M. The only Arrow I really like is Adventure Express, because its supposed to be rough and have an out of control. My last remark: I'm glad Arrow is having some changes, they need them. I've never been on an S&S ride, so I don't know how those are, but hopefully they're good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Arrow was actually on the right track in their newer mega-loopers like Tennessee Tornado at Dollywood. From what I've heard, it's an extremely fun ride that's also B&M smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianchef Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Arrow didn't actually go under / go out of business. When they were having their financial woes with SFMM and X, they were purchased by S&S Power of Utah. S&S Power also, like many of you know, hired Denise Dinn to create S&S's wooden coaster division after CCI going under. After the aquisition of Arrow Dynamics by S&S, they were for a moment called S&S-Arrow, but S&S later dropped the Arrow nametag and the future "Arrow" coasters will be under the S&S Worldwide nametag. S&S Worldwide is primarily known for their tower rides, and their compressed air technology, but they are now trying to make a name for themselves in the coaster business. S&S / Arrow / Whatever You Wanna Call Them are currently perfecting the 4D coaster technology, along with developing new coasters that will use S&S's compressed air launch technology. While the name "Arrow" will no longer be around, new "Arrow" coasters will be still popping up in future. Thank you Sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIDelirium Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Arrow was actually on the right track in their newer mega-loopers like Tennessee Tornado at Dollywood. From what I've heard, it's an extremely fun ride that's also B&M smooth. I've heard that too. I think it has to do with the different track tie design, they are more rounded that the usual Arrow ties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastfreak Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Track ties don't mean crap in coaster smoothness. Structural yes.. smoothness no. Smoothness would deal with the angle of curves and the rate at which banks are done, the wheel assemblies, and a whole lot of other stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIDelirium Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 it's not just the ties. The entire track design is different, so are the trains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastfreak Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Then why didn't you say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIDelirium Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 (edited) it just didn't hit my mind that second. *edited by pkiDelirium: i'm sorry, i was rude. i edited it.* Edited January 1, 1970 by pkidelirium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StXBomber Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 That's not something I had heard. The newest Aarow I had ridden was X, so thats what I was basing it on. Well maybe S&S can use these new designs to their advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKI_Man Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 well orginally i think most of arrow went out just to do X i think thats why arrow went bankrupt.........i could be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ Kinda Guy Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Reguarding Tennessee Tornado at DollyWood. It is a GREAT coaster. Nice and smooth with great pacing. Aaron was right, it's a shame they went under. Oh and to those inquiring as to why it's smoother. If I'm not mistaken Arrow started bending their own track back around that time instead of having an outside company do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 It really is a shame that Arrow is in the state that they're in right now. I hope they bounce back and can reuse the Arrow name and style. For those of you who are saying that Arrow rides are too rough, do you listen to yourself? That sounds like a comment someone would say out of pseudointellectualism, in other words, to try to make themselves look smart, and a bunch of people hopped on the same bandwaggon. I mean, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but no one in their right mind would call rides the The Vortex and Top Gun "too rough" when in the same park they have the a turbulant joke like the Son of Beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKI Homey Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I don't know about jumping any bandwagons, but you have to admit, with the way that steel coasters have become much smoother these days, the argument that Arrow coasters are too rough is legit. Granted, back in the glory days of The Vortex, it seemed really smooth compared to a woodie, but not now. You have rides like Millenium Force out there that just plain ride like a cadillac. Actually, all of the Intamin coasters I have been on are extremely smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DegenRider Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Your also showing 80's technology to late 90's-early 2000's technology. In 20 years MF may feel really rough and some new stuff we will be all the rage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastfreak Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Actually, all of the Intamin coasters I have been on are extremely smooth. Go ride Flashback at Six Flags Magic Mountain and tell me its smooth.... They should pass out Excedrine Migrane Relief while you wait in line... if there ever is one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Peronally, I don't think we've seen the end of Arrow Dynamics Inc. To give you guys a short hand lesson in economics, if a company get's sued, and then files for bankrupcy, it really screws things up. If they loose, they won't have to pay anything. I think Arrow filed because they could, and are laying low for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcarusLives Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 (edited) http://www.arrowdynamics.com/news.html Arrow is gone. S&S will no longer use the name Arrow on any future projects. There are probably many reasons for Arrow's demise. The troubles with X certainly affected them. But also, this could have been a planned bankruptcy. It is easier for a company to be bought out when they enter bankruptcy. When a company enters bankruptcy, federal laws say other companies can bid for the bankrupt company. Highest bidder wins (this just occured in Columbus where Giant Eagle outbid Kroger for bankrupt Big Bear locations). Arrow saw bankruptcy as a way to make themselves available to the highest bidder. I do not know who else (or if anyone) bid on Arrow. But S&S got 'em and choose to no longer use the name. Edited January 1, 1970 by IcarusLives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfreak75 Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Do you think X is going to be the only 4th dimension ever, or will S & S push foward with the project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 Apparently both S&S and B&M are looking at the 4d design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DegenRider Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 B&M cannot do a 4d. S&S has the patents to it. Anything remotely similar would be a violation of it and they could be sued. Only reason they got away with doing a flyer is there design is so vastly different to the Vekoma one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 B&M cannot do a 4d. S&S has the patents to it. Anything remotely similar would be a violation of it and they could be sued. Only reason they got away with doing a flyer is there design is so vastly different to the Vekoma one. I've definately heard that they're looking at the design. They may purchase the rights for all we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorkscrewMcPuke Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Twenty years have passed since Arrow went under. We've seen the fall of Vortex, Big Bad Wolf and many others since then. It's strange to think the company went belly up less than ten years after Top Gun (The Bat) was built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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