The Interpreter Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 And whether one party controls both houses of the state legislature next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron88stang Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Dynamic pricing is always going to upset someone...They probably should have just pushed the cheap season passes in Indy and Nashville rather than cheap day tickets. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 If a national newspaper ranked them as one of the best water parks in the US I would expect they run that in an ad and be proud of that. But the question is this: Did USA Today independently come up with that ranking, or did it come from a sponsored story written for the newspaper by Ed Hart himself? There have been several of the latter, including two in the Indianapolis Star, which is owned by the same company. At this point, I would not put it past Mr. Hart to claim superlatives in advertising based on his own vanity puffery piece. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron88stang Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 That is indeed a valid and good question, but if the claim can be legally made is it still not decent marketing to tout something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 http://m.wlky.com/news/kentucky-kingdom-brings-back-rapid-river-ride/33408634 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The main critique has been how a park that is able to operate thanks in large part to KY taxpayer $$ is then able to turn around and offer a steep discount on admission to residents of Indiana and Tennessee, yet their own home state residents are expected to pay full freight. I'm certain that issue will be raised in the fall elections. As mentioned before, the fate of the park beyond this year does hinge in large part on who becomes Gov. As a citizen of the Commonwealth, I get that. But, season passes in Louisville area Kroger stores were $59.95, now $79.95 and in Lexington area Kroger stores, they are still $59.95. Great value for the money. I think the way the tax incentive is set up, a certain number of out of state visitors must visit an attraction, this incentive is not unique to KK, it is available to any tourist attraction that wants to apply. So it makes logical sense to target low hanging fruit like Indy and Nashville with very good admission rates. I can see why they would not target Cincy since KI is such a formidable competitor. Not that this explaination makes it easier to swallow for citizens of The Commonwealth; but KK clearly had low priced season tickets for much of the off season, and continues to have this option now. I doubt this will be much of an election issue because KK is following the rules for the tax incentive. As far as the fate of the park, it will be interesting. I don't think a conservative or liberal government would want to see the park closed as the sales and income tax the park generates is fairly significant I'm sure-which of course is a voluntary tax. They want that revenue generated and an open park will do that, a closed park will not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 If a national newspaper ranked them as one of the best water parks in the US I would expect they run that in an ad and be proud of that. But the question is this: Did USA Today independently come up with that ranking, or did it come from a sponsored story written for the newspaper by Ed Hart himself? There have been several of the latter, including two in the Indianapolis Star, which is owned by the same company. At this point, I would not put it past Mr. Hart to claim superlatives in advertising based on his own vanity puffery piece. I have not seen USA Today's article, but the important thing to determine would be if were an independent ranking, or a press release issued by the park. Press releases by companies usually are just public relations tools. That would explain the advertisement in Nashville and Indy. I don't think they were "news" stories but paid advertisements. Whereas the claims about USA Today is being used by the park as an adversisement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 If a national newspaper ranked them as one of the best water parks in the US I would expect they run that in an ad and be proud of that. But the question is this: Did USA Today independently come up with that ranking, or did it come from a sponsored story written for the newspaper by Ed Hart himself? There have been several of the latter, including two in the Indianapolis Star, which is owned by the same company. At this point, I would not put it past Mr. Hart to claim superlatives in advertising based on his own vanity puffery piece. I have not seen USA Today's article, but the important thing to determine would be if were an independent ranking, or a press release issued by the park. Press releases by companies usually are just public relations tools. That would explain the advertisement in Nashville and Indy. I don't think they were "news" stories but paid advertisements. Whereas the claims about USA Today is being used by the park as an adversisement. The Indy and Nashville ads were exactly that, even linking directly to the 2/$29.99 promo hosted directly by the respective papers. I believe at least one of the "articles" explicitly started this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethancoaster Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Anyone think TGG could have anything to do with Twisted Twins next year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marth555 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 They stil havent got this years coaster running so I am doubtful when it comes to the twins 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The main critique has been how a park that is able to operate thanks in large part to KY taxpayer $$ is then able to turn around and offer a steep discount on admission to residents of Indiana and Tennessee, yet their own home state residents are expected to pay full freight. I'm certain that issue will be raised in the fall elections. As mentioned before, the fate of the park beyond this year does hinge in large part on who becomes Gov. As a citizen of the Commonwealth, I get that. But, season passes in Louisville area Kroger stores were $59.95, now $79.95 and in Lexington area Kroger stores, they are still $59.95. Great value for the money. I think the way the tax incentive is set up, a certain number of out of state visitors must visit an attraction, this incentive is not unique to KK, it is available to any tourist attraction that wants to apply. So it makes logical sense to target low hanging fruit like Indy and Nashville with very good admission rates. I can see why they would not target Cincy since KI is such a formidable competitor. Not that this explaination makes it easier to swallow for citizens of The Commonwealth; but KK clearly had low priced season tickets for much of the off season, and continues to have this option now. I doubt this will be much of an election issue because KK is following the rules for the tax incentive. As far as the fate of the park, it will be interesting. I don't think a conservative or liberal government would want to see the park closed as the sales and income tax the park generates is fairly significant I'm sure-which of course is a voluntary tax. They want that revenue generated and an open park will do that, a closed park will not. If a park were afraid to target an area where another park is already dominant, there would arguably have been no "coaster wars", let alone the parks that co-exist along with the Mouse in Orlando. The ads in the Star feature pictures of different flat rides "new" for 2015-balooon ride, sky screamer, etc. No mention of T3. An article in the USA Today yesterday mentioned that this quarter generates the vast majority of a regional park chain's revenue (no surprise there). If Hart cant generate the $ he needs right now, the chances of him doing so after Labor Day are slim, esp if KK doesn't have a Halloween/fall season like KI/HW/CP do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver2005 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Will KK even have the money to do a Twisted Twins refurb so soon? They only get something around $1.5-2 million a year from here on out, right (assuming things elsewhere go their way)? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 And Sky Screamer is a trademark--belonging to Six Flags. Rode it this morning, I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 If a national newspaper ranked them as one of the best water parks in the US I would expect they run that in an ad and be proud of that. But the question is this: Did USA Today independently come up with that ranking, or did it come from a sponsored story written for the newspaper by Ed Hart himself? There have been several of the latter, including two in the Indianapolis Star, which is owned by the same company. At this point, I would not put it past Mr. Hart to claim superlatives in advertising based on his own vanity puffery piece. I have not seen USA Today's article, but the important thing to determine would be if were an independent ranking, or a press release issued by the park. Press releases by companies usually are just public relations tools. That would explain the advertisement in Nashville and Indy. I don't think they were "news" stories but paid advertisements. Whereas the claims about USA Today is being used by the park as an adversisement. The Indy and Nashville ads were exactly that, even linking directly to the 2/$29.99 promo hosted directly by the respective papers. I believe at least one of the "articles" explicitly started this. Ok, so what is the problem with this? It is a paid advertisement and businesses do this all the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The main critique has been how a park that is able to operate thanks in large part to KY taxpayer $$ is then able to turn around and offer a steep discount on admission to residents of Indiana and Tennessee, yet their own home state residents are expected to pay full freight. I'm certain that issue will be raised in the fall elections. As mentioned before, the fate of the park beyond this year does hinge in large part on who becomes Gov. As a citizen of the Commonwealth, I get that. But, season passes in Louisville area Kroger stores were $59.95, now $79.95 and in Lexington area Kroger stores, they are still $59.95. Great value for the money. I think the way the tax incentive is set up, a certain number of out of state visitors must visit an attraction, this incentive is not unique to KK, it is available to any tourist attraction that wants to apply. So it makes logical sense to target low hanging fruit like Indy and Nashville with very good admission rates. I can see why they would not target Cincy since KI is such a formidable competitor. Not that this explaination makes it easier to swallow for citizens of The Commonwealth; but KK clearly had low priced season tickets for much of the off season, and continues to have this option now. I doubt this will be much of an election issue because KK is following the rules for the tax incentive. As far as the fate of the park, it will be interesting. I don't think a conservative or liberal government would want to see the park closed as the sales and income tax the park generates is fairly significant I'm sure-which of course is a voluntary tax. They want that revenue generated and an open park will do that, a closed park will not. If a park were afraid to target an area where another park is already dominant, there would arguably have been no "coaster wars", let alone the parks that co-exist along with the Mouse in Orlando. The ads in the Star feature pictures of different flat rides "new" for 2015-balooon ride, sky screamer, etc. No mention of T3. An article in the USA Today yesterday mentioned that this quarter generates the vast majority of a regional park chain's revenue (no surprise there). If Hart cant generate the $ he needs right now, the chances of him doing so after Labor Day are slim, esp if KK doesn't have a Halloween/fall season like KI/HW/CP do. I agree. But you generally have to crawl before you walk. If KK matures into a true regional park, it may have more resources in the future, then it can compete against KI and HW. But you start small to get big. Sell tickets as a loss leader and the make 80% markup on thousands upon thousands of $1.00 soft drink sales. And the same with other merchandise in the park. I would imagine the reason the out of state stipulation is in place is to encourage hotel stays, which rake in so much money in taxes and fees for the governments. So, hit the low hanging fruit of Nashville and Indy area, sell cheap season tickets and expand on your core base. Then go after more difficult markets like Cincy. They are already competing with KI in the Lexington/Louisville and Indy markets. As far as T3, yes they should have underpromised and overdelivered. With other lessons they have to learn, hopefully things will change in the future. They really need a new PR person though. The brand is so undefined. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Will KK even have the money to do a Twisted Twins refurb so soon? They only get something around $1.5-2 million a year from here on out, right (assuming things elsewhere go their way)? I sure hope they will! Nothing seems to be happening with it at this point, so I hope an announcement will be made this summer. But I don't see an intriguing teaser campaign like KI did with Banshee or HW did with Thunderbird. I have never ridden this ride, so I have no nostalgic connection, so I can *dream* of a RMC conversion into something awesome. The closest RMC coaster is 6 hours away from me, (unless you count the rehab they did on Thunder Run, which is totally impressive to me!) so having one an hour or so away would be great. I am not sure about the incentive amounts they get, but the contract requires them to invest a minimum of around $2.5 million each year into the park for the next 70 years? That's not a lot of money, I would assume this would barely cover preventative maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acfinn Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 If a national newspaper ranked them as one of the best water parks in the US I would expect they run that in an ad and be proud of that.But the question is this: Did USA Today independently come up with that ranking, or did it come from a sponsored story written for the newspaper by Ed Hart himself? There have been several of the latter, including two in the Indianapolis Star, which is owned by the same company. At this point, I would not put it past Mr. Hart to claim superlatives in advertising based on his own vanity puffery piece.I have not seen USA Today's article, but the important thing to determine would be if were an independent ranking, or a press release issued by the park. Press releases by companies usually are just public relations tools. That would explain the advertisement in Nashville and Indy. I don't think they were "news" stories but paid advertisements. Whereas the claims about USA Today is being used by the park as an adversisement.The Indy and Nashville ads were exactly that, even linking directly to the2/$29.99 promo hosted directly by the respective papers. I believe at least one of the "articles" explicitly started this. Ok, so what is the problem with this? It is a paid advertisement and businesses do this all the time. The problem is that stating they have a highly regarded water park according to USA Today when in fact USA Today actually never wrote it. It is deceiving advertising and has been a disputed tactic in more than just this instance. USA Today has been criticized for allowing entities to do this kind of advertising for a while now. Kentucky Kingdom's claim that the paper named their water park one of the best is not accurate at all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 If a national newspaper ranked them as one of the best water parks in the US I would expect they run that in an ad and be proud of that.But the question is this: Did USA Today independently come up with that ranking, or did it come from a sponsored story written for the newspaper by Ed Hart himself? There have been several of the latter, including two in the Indianapolis Star, which is owned by the same company. At this point, I would not put it past Mr. Hart to claim superlatives in advertising based on his own vanity puffery piece.I have not seen USA Today's article, but the important thing to determine would be if were an independent ranking, or a press release issued by the park. Press releases by companies usually are just public relations tools. That would explain the advertisement in Nashville and Indy. I don't think they were "news" stories but paid advertisements. Whereas the claims about USA Today is being used by the park as an adversisement.The Indy and Nashville ads were exactly that, even linking directly to the2/$29.99 promo hosted directly by the respective papers. I believe at least one of the "articles" explicitly started this. Ok, so what is the problem with this? It is a paid advertisement and businesses do this all the time. The problem is that stating they have a highly regarded water park according to USA Today when in fact USA Today actually never wrote it. It is deceiving advertising and has been a disputed tactic in more than just this instance. USA Today has been criticized for allowing entities to do this kind of advertising for a while now. Kentucky Kingdom's claim that the paper named their water park one of the best is not accurate at all. My reference was directed at the Indiana and Tennessee newspapers, not the USA Today piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acfinn Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 My apologies. I get irritated by this practice as numerous industries have complained and yet USA Today does nothing to protect its integrity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 My apologies. I get irritated by this practice as numerous industries have complained and yet USA Today does nothing to protect its integrity. I did a quick Google search for USA Today Kentucky Kingdom review and the search returned articles from The Louisville Courier-Journal that did not appear to be press releases, but rather a news story about how the first year went, what expectations are for the second year, and the new attractions for 2015. I'll dig a little deeper this weekend, unless you have a hyperlink available. As for USA Today, I haven't read a copy since college and that was a loooooong time ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acfinn Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 If a national newspaper ranked them as one of the best water parks in the US I would expect they run that in an ad and be proud of that.But the question is this: Did USA Today independently come up with that ranking, or did it come from a sponsored story written for the newspaper by Ed Hart himself? There have been several of the latter, including two in the Indianapolis Star, which is owned by the same company. At this point, I would not put it past Mr. Hart to claim superlatives in advertising based on his own vanity puffery piece.I have not seen USA Today's article, but the important thing to determine would be if were an independent ranking, or a press release issued by the park. Press releases by companies usually are just public relations tools. That would explain the advertisement in Nashville and Indy. I don't think they were "news" stories but paid advertisements. Whereas the claims about USA Today is being used by the park as an adversisement.The Indy and Nashville ads were exactly that, even linking directly to the2/$29.99 promo hosted directly by the respective papers. I believe at least one of the "articles" explicitly started this. Ok, so what is the problem with this? It is a paid advertisement and businesses do this all the time. jtro223 the quotes from these posts suggest the USA Today claim. I never saw it myself. I know it has been a problem that has been pointed out in other industries that companies buy ad space in the paper, write an "article" instead of an actual ad, then claim that USA Today recommended their product. When in fact it was that company that wrote the piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The required annual investment is not $2.5 million after next year. Rather it is $1.5 to $2 million. The current PR guy at Kentucky Kingdom is a true professional. He is not the problem. Rather, Mr. Hart personally calls ALL the shots, and micromanages to the nth degree. Do one thing he doesn't personally approve and find yourself unemployed, yesterday. I am reliably informed working for him directly is far from a pleasant experience. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Compare and contrast: http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2014/03/koch_family_has_five-year_plan.html From some of the same people who backed out of Bluegrass Boardwalk.... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APE Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Lightning Run was insanely fun! Wow. We are halfway to Kings Dominion now. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acfinn Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Compare and contrast: http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2014/03/koch_family_has_five-year_plan.html From some of the same people who backed out of Bluegrass Boardwalk.... After reading that story and how the whole deal went down in Indiana, I am really rooting for this park to succeed. I wish I had the money to make a trip down there. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Note that the Kochs determined that a long term deal with the Fair Board was not sustainable.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidd33 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I would think the Koch family intended to run the park long term. I don't know that Hart had/has that same intention. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMAJrKY Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I visited the park today. Things were busy. I spent the day in Hurricane Bay, and at one point Mr. Hart was observing the wave pool from the side: black pants, black polo, black hat and sunglasses, arms folded, intently watching. Glad to see him about the park observing. Some things I noted: 2 train operation on Lightning Run While waiting on Deluge I noticed activity in T3's station (maintenance workers scurrying about), definitely at least one train present with water dummies loaded. Raging Rapids operating No trouble with season pass or free parking, and in the heat was enjoying $1 soft drinks immensely. Over at the beach club they were having technical difficulties with one of the registers (IT was on site), so instead of having me wait just gave me my soft drink. I noticed plenty of security. I hope things stay busy and they get T3 running soon! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex lover Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I wish they ran two trains each day instead of only on the weekends (but stacking would be frequently). And T3's train yesterday was most of the train sitting in the station while I would say 25% was outside the station. No testing was done yesterday. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Question for locals: I know Louisville-area Kroger stores sell discounted season passes (as well as in Lexington, but that's too far out of my way). Do those same Kroger stores also offer discounted single-day admission tickets, and at what price? I'm planning to make a run to KK once T3 opens and want to know my options. (I'm considering getting a season pass anyway, but I'm not sure that's in my budget.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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