Toyota - "Ideas for Good" commercial - Rollercoaster

[Cory Butcher]

I just saw this and had to post for those who haven't seen it. Think this is possible? Could it be done? I thought it was interesting, and something I've contemplated before but never really considered feasible yet. Your thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8iFqz1Ogig

[flightoffear1996]

Yea I saw that pretty cool comerical.

[PREMiERdrum]

Because if there's one company who understands the speeding, out-of-control sensation of a rollercoaster, it's Toyota.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[The Interpreter]

I'm glad it was you who did that...though I still think Toyota's problem is with its drivers...market cars as appliances to people who buy cars like they are appliances, don't be surprised when your customers can't tell the accelerator pedal from the brake.

Separately, another car ad with a coaster in it (bonus points for identifying the coaster):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXdaVgRysmE

[Cory Butcher]

^Big Dipper?

[IBEW_Sparky]

Coney Island Cyclone.

[The Interpreter]

Coney Island Cyclone.

You, sir, are correct.

[PREMiERdrum]

I'm glad it was you who did that...though I still think Toyota's problem is with its drivers...market cars as appliances to people who buy cars like they are appliances, don't be surprised when your customers can't tell the accelerator pedal from the brake.

I'd argue that most SUA events are driver error, regardless of make. I also somewhat support your theory that the "typical" Toyota buyer may be more prone to pedal confusion. There have been enough confirmed, witnessed events of SUV (including the gentleman whose Avalon was stuck at full throttle for the 3rd time, who managed to use neutral and braking to get his car to his Toyota dealership where techs witnessed the behavior) to tell me that there is in fact a problem. The leaked documents from Toyota show that they were aware of a problem and they were trying to hide it.

Now, they're using absurd lease deals and sales incentives to move the metal, hoping to make buyers forget what happened. We'll see if it works.

[The Interpreter]

Then there's the whole deal of their attorney from their in-house legal department who was relieved of his duties, given a huge severance package on the condition of lifetime confidentiality and who has now broken that agreement by wholesale disclosure of things protected by the attorney client privilege...and that attorney is now claiming mental problems led to his disclosures. Nothing good around all that...nothing good at all.

[PREMiERdrum]

Then there's the whole deal of their attorney from their in-house legal department who was relieved of his duties, given a huge severance package on the condition of lifetime confidentiality and who has now broken that agreement by wholesale disclosure of things protected by the attorney client privilege...and that attorney is now claiming mental problems led to his disclosures. Nothing good around all that...nothing good at all.

Yep... when you couple this with their declining quality, mediocre safety and efficiency, ancient platforms and programs, and other manufacturers recent gains (Ford and Hyundai/Kia, namely), there just isn't much reason to visit your local Toyota store.

I'll stick with my blue ovals, thankyouverymuch.

[IndyGuy4KI]

Wont catch me anywhere near a toyota. Between brake issues, stuck gas petals, and rusting frams on their trucks. No thanks!

I did however think using the arrow trains is a good choice. Before the DB trains, I thought those trains were the coolest looking in the park.

[The Interpreter]

Don't forget engine gelling (aka sludge) which Toyota almost invariably blames on its customers' lack of maintenance (as in changing the oil), which is often true...

[KIfan73]

I just saw this and had to post for those who haven't seen it. Think this is possible? Could it be done? I thought it was interesting, and something I've contemplated before but never really considered feasible yet. Your thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8iFqz1Ogig

Wow, that's a little scary. I've thought about the exact same thing.

[Dieseltech20]

The commercial states that the brakes in the wheels generate the electricity. Last I knew (I could of course be wrong) Coasters don't have brakes in the wheel ends like a car. Most of them use magnets, correct? Large power sucking magnets.

[Monroe]

On some rides the magnets used are power suckers, but on most coasters that use magnets they do not use as much power as you would think. Most brakes are pinch or skid brakes, the magnets are generally trims and are earth magnets that use no power at all. As far as the Hybrid Synergy Drive goes, they are in a sense using the energy from the turning wheel to spin the motor thus generating electricity. In other words, they are reversing the process from: battery - inverter/charger - electric motor - gear box - wheel, to: wheel - gear box - electric motor - inverter/charger - battery. I know I am going to regret doing this but here it goes: The whole idea of being self sustaining is a good one, how to do that is the problem. If you take a roller coaster and think about how much energy it is using, it is simply amazing. Now look at the wheels constantly turning, the strong wind blowing your hair around and your glasses off (except in certain parks unnamed in this post). The turning wheels and the wind are both potential energy and lots of it, the problem is harnessing that energy. One solution would be to use Toyota's idea and connect a gear box and generator to the wheels, but that would add a lot of weight to the car. You would also have to add a third rail to collect the electricity to an inverter/charger and then on to a battery system. The question then would be, would you be able to collect enough energy/electricity to operate the ride without using an outside source? At this time the answer is no, but that does not mean it can't be done. And finally, the idea of being self sustained goes well beyond coaster wheels. for example, you have moving water in several locations in the park, doesn't any one remember the water mills of old?

Just found this, look at the deceleration part: http://www.hybridsynergydrive.com/en/mechanism.html

[The Interpreter]

There was a time when Century Flyer trains had beautiful headlights...both Kennywood and Camden Park had them working for a bit in years past...and the power to run them was either from a generator or battery, depending on the park and when. Old bicycle headlights worked similarly. A generator was in its own way a brake on the wheels, except it operated all the time the wheels were turning. The faster the coaster went, the brighter the headlights, and vice versa. Somewhat like old vacuum operated windshield wipers!

At Camden, the headlights have again not been working for some time now:

http://www.rcdb.com/315.htm?p=875

Even Conneaut had their headlights working for a short time a while back:

http://www.rcdb.com/249.htm?p=17813

Then there's Kennywood. It's been a long time since those worked:

http://www.rcdb.com/122.htm?p=223

[Pillsberry123]

I'll be the one with the different opinion here: My family (including me) loves Toyota.

We've owned 7 Toyotas (my immediate family, as well as my uncle) in the past 20 years. Not had a problem with a single one. And every one of these cars reached 275,000 miles (at least) before we eventually bargained to get a newer car. You won't see me driving a Prius, but I'll take a Corrolla, Camry, or Highlander over a Cavalier, Malibu, or Trailblazer any day. Great reliability, cheap price... If it's a daily driver I'll go ahead and sacrifice the innovative styling.

[CoasterKrazy]

On some rides the magnets used are power suckers, but on most coasters that use magnets they do not use as much power as you would think. Most brakes are pinch or skid brakes, the magnets are generally trims and are earth magnets that use no power at all. As far as the Hybrid Synergy Drive goes, they are in a sense using the energy from the turning wheel to spin the motor thus generating electricity. In other words, they are reversing the process from: battery - inverter/charger - electric motor - gear box - wheel, to: wheel - gear box - electric motor - inverter/charger - battery. I know I am going to regret doing this but here it goes: The whole idea of being self sustaining is a good one, how to do that is the problem. If you take a roller coaster and think about how much energy it is using, it is simply amazing. Now look at the wheels constantly turning, the strong wind blowing your hair around and your glasses off (except in certain parks unnamed in this post). The turning wheels and the wind are both potential energy and lots of it, the problem is harnessing that energy. One solution would be to use Toyota's idea and connect a gear box and generator to the wheels, but that would add a lot of weight to the car. You would also have to add a third rail to collect the electricity to an inverter/charger and then on to a battery system. The question then would be, would you be able to collect enough energy/electricity to operate the ride without using an outside source? At this time the answer is no, but that does not mean it can't be done. And finally, the idea of being self sustained goes well beyond coaster wheels. for example, you have moving water in several locations in the park, doesn't any one remember the water mills of old?

Just found this, look at the deceleration part: http://www.hybridsynergydrive.com/en/mechanism.html

Using regenerative technology (both present and future) it is impossible to have a self-sustaining roller coaster. Some outside source must be provided because it is not physically possible to convert 100% of the potential energy of the train to electricity. There will always be losses, and therefore another source of energy is necessary. I'm not familiar with current technology or what Toyota proposes, but I would imagine that unless a coaster is designed specifically for this system, it would not be economically or physically feasible to install this on an existing ride. I doubt the energy savings would be greater than the cost of the technology, and I doubt any significant amount of electricity could be generated without preventing the train from running the course (

, however, are pretty cool (see 5:15)).

[KIfan73]

Maybe park guests could run on electricity-producing treadmills while waiting in line!

[Braves0511]

Maybe park guests could run on electricity-producing treadmills while waiting in line!

Too bad you can't harness the dumb, and turn it into electricity. We could power a small country.

[74Gibson]

I absolutely love my Prius. I drove a Lexus before that and a Honda Civic before that. All foreign all good. I now want American made cars because they don't suck l'ike they used to and I would always rather buy local. To all you harters of import drivers, blame the companies not the consumers.

As far as the Hybrid Synergy drive, It was explained to me that the weels for the generator are in the brake pads. Therefore, they are spun round by the rotor when the brake pads engage and the rest is exactly how Monroe described (thanks!). I was also told that there are generators on the axels for when you are coasting... this still confuses me though.

The law of diminishing returns (or whatever it's called) eliminates the possibility of a rollercoaster powering itself by harnessing kinetic energy.

Wind seems to be the answer for green energy. It's clean, low maintenance and dirt cheap (that's why it's so popular now). Solar and fueal cells have expensive elements and manufacturing processes and when you consider storing the waste... Nuke energy is insanely expensive (and probably just a cover for arms research/testing/proliferation).

[jdawg1998]

That's my mom's car, the Highlander.

(Random poster: Okay, your point?)

[pbkigi]

Because if there's one company who understands the speeding, out-of-control sensation of a rollercoaster, it's Toyota.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

That got me laughing. That was a good one.

[Monroe]

The question then would be, would you be able to collect enough energy/electricity to operate the ride without using an outside source? At this time the answer is no, but that does not mean it can't be done. And finally, the idea of being self sustained goes well beyond coaster wheels. for example, you have moving water in several locations in the park, doesn't any one remember the water mills of old?

Just found this, look at the deceleration part: http://www.hybridsyn.../mechanism.html

Using regenerative technology (both present and future) it is impossible to have a self-sustaining roller coaster. Some outside source must be provided because it is not physically possible to convert 100% of the potential energy of the train to electricity. There will always be losses, and therefore another source of energy is necessary. I'm not familiar with current technology or what Toyota proposes, but I would imagine that unless a coaster is designed specifically for this system, it would not be economically or physically feasible to install this on an existing ride. I doubt the energy savings would be greater than the cost of the technology, and I doubt any significant amount of electricity could be generated without preventing the train from running the course (

, however, are pretty cool (see 5:15)).

I basically said the same thing you did except for one critical word (and some other things) that I made bigger and bold in your post. Do you know that many, many people failed in school because of that word? Could you imagine if Einstein, or Miller used that word? Also please take a look at the link I posted for Toyota, it is very easy to understand and explains itself well. (I said I was going to regret posting this, I knew some one was going to question it or challenge it.)

[CoasterKrazy]

There's no debating that, given the opportunity and necessary advancements, this technology could be used to help reduce the energy consumption of roller coasters. I'm all for green tech, and I welcome any attempts by theme parks to decrease their carbon footprint, but from a physical/thermodynamic perspective, it is indeed impossible to have an entirely, 100% self-sustaining roller coaster based upon regenerative technology. There will always be losses, and as such, some external source must provide the energy necessary for the coaster to operate. We could develop technologies with efficiencies such that those outside sources are minor, but they would be there nonetheless.

Again, this tech could definitely be used in amusement parks. It can not, however, result in those parks removing their rides from external powers sources after the first test run.

[Monroe]

^Giving up and saying some thing is impossible and can't be done, has never made any one famous. On top of that, it only sets an individual up for failure. You obviously are a little behind on some newer (and some older) technology, Battery technology has taken many leaps and bounds in the last 5 years alone, and generator and inverter technology is not far behind. Yes there will always be losses, but that will not matter when technology flips the ratio. The advancement in gear box technology alone is amazing. The only thing on this Earth that I think is impossible, is a REAL man having a baby.

[The Interpreter]

You never heard of adoption?

Terpy, who dreams the possible and the impossible...

[Monroe]

^Physically giving birth.........(one of these days.........pow right in the kisser).

[The Interpreter]

Leave it to an engineer to think in such a mechanical fashion!

Terp, ever pragmatic and philosophical....

[Monroe]

Ha Ha, I wish it was that easy......I still have no clue on how to fix that one gear (the spending one) in my wife's head.