Kings Island's hits & misses poll

[McSalsa]

In 2012, Kings Island will turn 40 years old. For the most part the park has done well, but I came up with another poll- which is actually a 2-in-1 poll. What do you think are the worst "mistakes" KI has ever made are, and the opposite- what are the most brilliant moves KI has ever made? For example, here are some of my opinions:

Brillaint Move: Building The Beast, 1979

Created a world-class wooden roller coaster that put KI on every thrill seeker's map.

Blunder Move: Hiring RCCA to build Son of Beast, 1999/2000

They had only built a handful of woodies before and those didn't end up well, so why did KI even think they could design a world-record breaking looping wooden hypercoaster? It boggles the mind...and now we have a giant wooden SBNO coaster for it that cost over $30,000,000...

Hope this is simple enough to understand. You can put more than 1 thing under each category. Enioy the poll. If you dislike...you know what you must do!

[Pillsberry123]

The two single best things that Kings Island has done is build The Racer and build The Beast. The Racer sparked a huge amount of popularity in big coasters for the first time since the golden days of Brooklyn's Coney Island and old Cedar Point. The Beast set the standard for coasters for an entire decade until Magnum XL200 came along and completely rewrote the books.

Kings Island as a whole has written itself as a local icon of the Cincinnati area where locals and tourist alike can come and enjoy a day at an amusement park, just like Coney Island did beforehand.

I agree with you that the worst thing that they've done was build the Son of Beast, but this is purely from a financial standpoint. I understand that there are people who like the ride, but with the amount of money that has been spent on the ride, no one can say that it was worth building. I'd also argue that taking out the Antique Cars for a stunt track coaster was a pretty dumb decision, and the same can be said about the Flying Eagles getting removed for a basketball court...

[CedarPointer]

Hits: The Beast, Diamondback, The Racer, Back Lot Stunt Coaster, Vortex, Nickelodeon Universe, Tomb Raider The Ride, Boo Blasters

Misses: Son of Beast, The Crypt, Planet Snoopy, The Bat (from a technical standpoint)

[Browntggrr]

I also believe a "miss" would be the location of IJ.

IMO, the removal of: trees, rides, and aesthetic areas is acceptable, provided the addition is worth-while.

[bkroz]

I persoanlly think that The Italian Job: Stunt Track (and even now, Backlot Stunt Coaster) are worthwhile. But I doubt many would argue that it's placement is nonsensical. Especially when there are are equally fitting, much more appropriate spots in which it could've been placed without sacrificing two much-loved attractions and one of the most tranquil spots in the park.

Of course, I adamantly believe that Tomb Raider: The Ride was a success from a guest point of view (as well as a testament to the standard that seasonal amusement parks should and could hold themselves to). But I'm not naive enough to forget that for many people in many positions, it was a debilitating failure.

[Browntggrr]

I persoanlly think that The Italian Job: Stunt Track (and even now, Backlot Stunt Coaster) are worthwhile. But I doubt many would argue that it's placement is nonsensical. Especially when there are are equally fitting, much more appropriate spots in which it could've been placed without sacrificing two much-loved attractions.

I personally have nothing against the ride, just the location.

[bkroz]

That makes two of us!

[The Interpreter]

Me, too....I think it would be much better suited at....Coney Island of Ohio.

[Coney Islander]

From a business stand point, I have mixed thoughts on Kings Island's decisions during the previous ten years...

Some decisions were just stupid: The removal of the Antique Cars and Flying Eagles, Paramount's destruction of live entertainment, the very poor upkeep of Tomb Raider: The Ride, and Paramount's decision to encourage the construction of Great Wolf Lodge by an independent company. (Also, I'm not sure exactly when this happened, but the removal of Kings Island's imagineering department cost the park dearly.)

Some choices have been great successes: Tomb Raider's opening, Boomerang Bay, the development of Kings Island's kid's area, Cedar Fair's decision top bring back the entertainment, Spongebob Squarepants 3D, Halloween Haunt, and Howl-O-Fest.

Some ideas I believe had quite a bit of potential, but were not very well initiated: Son of Beast (they could of cut the cost in half and still had a ride with the same marketability) and Italian Job: Stunt Track (removing one of the most family friendly areas of the park... and why?)

Overall, Kings Island has had its share of ups and downs. Also, I find Cedar Fair much smarter a company than the former Paramount Parks, but in no way comparable to certain other Amusement chains.

[jdawg1998]

Hits: Diamondback (we definitely needed a B&M), The Beast (why not? It's why everybody goes to Kings Island), Halloween Haunt (according to their website, HH was rated one of the best of five Halloween events?), and The Racer because it brought Kings Island to success and is a classic.

Misses: Son of Beast (so much money wasted), Boomerang Bay (if they want to have a successful waterpark, it needs to be updated), removal of Antique Cars (my parents loved these, but I never got a chance to ride it), and removal of much of the Coney Island rides.

[Coney Islander]

I personally believe Diamondback is much more of a 'miss' than a 'hit'. Kings Island chose to construct about the most expensive attraction possible, while there are still more marketable attractions out there. (Most of which are also millions of dollars less expensive...)

Actually, I don't see Son of Beast any more of a miss than Diamondback... Son of Beast was extremely expensive, but accomplished its goal: Drawing visitors away from Cedar Point... And very successfully, I must add.

Now, what were Kings Island officials trying to accomplish with the addition of Diamondback? Was this goal accomplished? I personally cannot even imagine the reason rationality behind choosing Diamondback over other attractions. I really don't get it.

(Edit: I replaced the word reason with the word rationality... A much better fit.)

[The Interpreter]

The Chairman and CEO of the company is of the "If you build it, they will come" roller coaster mentality. The powers that be at Kings Island report to him.

Any questions?

[Coney Islander]

Yes, that makes a lot of sense.

Just to clear things up, Diamondback is a very fun coaster... One of my favorites.

I just don't find Diamondback a very good investment. (Though, I'm sure others find Diamondback very smart for business. Such is life.)

Edit: Now I do have a question... Has Mr. Kinzel ridden Diamondback before, and just how much does he love it?

Edited December 12, 2010 by Coney Islander

[The Interpreter]

Yes, Mr. Kinzel has ridden Diamondback. And I am quite sure he pronounced it splendid. Other than Top Thrill Dragster, I have never heard him denigrate the products in any of his parks.

[CoastersRZ]

Yes. Diamondback was a wise investment for KI. So too, it could be argued that Intimidator at Carowinds was a success since it was reported that Carowinds set an attendance record.

As an aside, prices at Sea World for drink are really reasonable. $2.75 for a 20 ounce soft drink. And I ate at the Crowne Colony at Busch Gardens and had a HUGE turkey sandwich with fries. The sandwich cost $10, and I could barely finish it. I have no problem with paying that much for a sandwich when the quality and quantity is so great. Often, KI's huge prices, more than the parks down here charge, and KI's food lacks the quality. I'm still amazed people pay for the food at KI.

[The Interpreter]

Not to mention the delightful setting at the Crowne Colony...so completely opposite of Fest House at KI in virtually every way (the same can be said of Das Festhaus at BGW...so much more tranquil, fun and festive). Kings Island is in desperate need of a nice, sit-down place with much more than merely edible food....

[CoastersRZ]

I agree. The Crowne Colony had an excellent setting. Not to mention the best view of the construction of the new roller coaster. Was really nice to have a sit down restaurant at an amusement park. Great food at a great price. A place like that at Kings Island would be nice. Do I think that would work well? If done correctly, it would be a huge success.

[CoastersRZ]

I agree. The Crowne Colony had an excellent setting. Not to mention the best view of the construction of the new roller coaster. Was really nice to have a sit down restaurant at an amusement park. Great food at a great price. A place like that at Kings Island would be nice. Do I think that would work well? If done correctly, it would be a huge success.

[markr]

Hits: The Beast, Diamondback,Drop Tower, Flight of Fear, Vortex, Delirium.

Misses: Removal of too many of the wonderful rides over the years such as Enchanted Voyage, Bavarian Beetle, Cuddle-Up, Sky Ride-I can go on and on. The gradual disappearance of one of the prettiest sections of the park, Oktoberfest-In short, I think KI's biggest sin over the years is violating the rule " If its not broken, don't fix it."

[Hank]

I'm 52 and my daughter is 18 - she says, "You don't compare Lady Gaga to Elvis or Miley Cyrus to Paul McCartney. Therefore, you shouldn't change the names of rides and THAT is the worst thing I find with King's Island. Leave the ride's names alone! I will always call them Top Gun, Beastie, King's Milll, Italian Job - not that Nickelodeon stuff or that new Snoopy crap. And leave the color schemes alone!" (forgive her about Beastie as she never new it bu any other name)

I have to agree that name changes are not good, but my pet peeve is the lack of maintainence/upkeep of the rides. They are looking ragged. Come to think of it, the park is looking ragged - and everything new is being placed helter-skelter. "Theme park"? - my ass! Hodge-podge of rides is more like it.

[bkroz]

Hodge podge of rides? Methinks that the powers that be would find that to be a fair assessment, and a compliment to boot. After all, their flagship park has won the Best Amusement Park on earth for years and years, and what is it if not a hodge podge of rides? Hasn't it faired pretty well without a single movie theme, motion simulator, 3D projection, synchronized musical score, fire effect, or licensed property? If you don't need any of those to be the Best Amusement Park on Earth, why would they give one to some second-in-command park in Southern Ohio?

On the earlier comments about Diamondback, I would say that it (like any ride) is both a hit and miss in many ways. The image I've gathered is that Cedar Fair's first and foremost goal upon buying the Paramount Parks was essentially to "beef them up" and make them fit in better with their legacy parks. And while the Paramount Parks had large, notable rides (in Kings Island's case, The Beast, Son of Beast, Tomb Raider, Flight of Fear) they did not have any classically-Cedar-Fair rides: no large, forceful, attention-grabbing steel coasters that dominate the landscape and draw all eyes towards them.

If you had a friend who were absolutely not a coaster enthusiast, I have no doubt that after one trip to Cedar Point and one trip to Kings Island, they could tell you which coaster at Kings Island most resembled Cedar Point. Diamondback is the only roller coaster we have that isn't set back from the main path. It's the only one that crosses over a midway. And it's the only one that has very little interaction with the natural environment. Unfortunately, elements like isolation and terrain-following layouts are things we came to expect during the prior years of the park, which makes Diamondback seem very foreign to us. It is what it is, and it won't change.

Were there better ways to spend that money? Perhaps. But you can't please all of the people all of the time. I would've had that money spent on Son of Beast and Crypt repairs. Others would have it diverted to landscaping. Some might seek to have the movie rights purchased for a select few attractions. Some might've had the park's entire food service system renovated. Others would have a giant steel hypercoaster. Which would've done the most long-term good, or which would've done the best short-term good, and which is more important? These are the questions to be asked...

[Delirium13]

Hits: Racer, The Beast, Flight of Fear, Diamondback, kid's area expansions, Tomb Raider: The Ride, Fear Fest/Halloween Haunt (like it or not, it's a hit from an attendance standpoint)

Misses: Diamondback's location (I love the splashdown, not happy to lose swan lake though), Scooby Doo and the Haunted Castle/Boo Blasters (cardboard cutouts just can't compare to the rides previously housed in that building), Italian Job's location, new ride names, current food/drink pricing, discontinuing Winterfest.

Fail that makes me laugh: the spelling of "King's Island" on Thunder Alley's sign...

Just a few things I could think of.

[Browntggrr]

I am completely shocked anyone would rate DB as a "miss" for any reason.

Not only did the ride fill a hole in KI's coaster line-up, it also brought: a B & M to the park, smooth ride, fast ride, airtime, fast line, etc. All that with no inversions & no gimmicks. Reading back through numerous threads, this was the exact type of ride most wanted to see.

Two things are certain: everyone is entitled to their opinion & you can't please everybody.

[The Interpreter]

Hodge podge of rides? Methinks that the powers that be would find that to be a fair assessment, and a compliment to boot. After all, their flagship park has won the Best Amusement Park on earth for years and years, and what is it if not a hodge podge of rides? Hasn't it faired pretty well without a single movie theme, motion simulator, 3D projection, synchronized musical score, fire effect, or licensed property?...

Without a single one? NO. What is Snoopy? What is Johnny Rockets? What is Starbucks coffee? What is Pepsi? What is TGIFridays? What is Famous Dave's? What is Panda Express? All used at Cedar Point by Cedar Fair under license from the individual intellectual property holders....and that's just off the top of my head...

...On the earlier comments about Diamondback, I would say that it (like any ride) is both a hit and miss in many ways. The image I've gathered is that Cedar Fair's first and foremost goal upon buying the Paramount Parks was essentially to "beef them up" and make them fit in better with their legacy parks....

If that is true, Mr. Kinzel SHOULD be immediately FIRED. The first and foremost goal upon buying the Paramount Parks should have been to generate profits for unit holders while eliminating long term debt. You are probably right, though...by his own admission, Mr. Kinzel is an operations guy, not a finance guy. And it shows. When even a student of the industry on an Internet message board clearly articulates what Kinzel's goals were....there is an issue...No wonder Q is upset.

[windshawne]

I'll have to agree about Diamondback's location-I think it should have gone where Son is. As a former employee, the name change caused problems for me personally when I was told to go to such and such and I would have to think which location it really was. The worst? Removing the flats in Coney Mall. I miss tumble bug and all those older rides. Like I said in another topic, there's nothing for the older folks to ride-it's not always about record breaking coasters and tallest and fastest.

Hits? Well, addition of DB (except for the location). Starlight spectacular. A little off topic, but the friends I have made working there and being part of this community-after all, that's most important to me.

[KIfan1980]

I guess I'll add my 2 cents:

• Hits: I have to say that I think that KI has done a great job of adding innovative and exciting rides over the years. I think the collection of coasters and major thrill rides that has been assembled is outstanding. I think the kids area is first class.
• Misses (poor choices): location and ride removal. Sometimes the location of new rides just hasn't made sense to me. I'm not going to complain about Diamondback as I think it does add something to that location, but will forever wonder about things like: Why is Flight Deck so far back in Action Zone? Why did BLSC have to be placed where it is? The removal piece (as others have said) is about taking away a group of rides that appeals to the multi-generational family. When I look at pictures of family trips to Cedar Point, there are multiple pictures of the kids and grandparents on various rides (Cars, Calypso, Cedar Downs, Skyride, Train, etc....). At KI, not so much.
• Unfortunates (not desired outcomes): Sometimes, you make a choice and it doesn't turn out right. For me, SoB falls in this camp - can't blame them for trying to be innovative, but an unfortunate outcome. Same can be said of Bat and King Cobra.

[son of beast214]

i dont see why everyone is saying so many negative things about Son of Beast? if you dont like it dont ride it and comments like this make things worse!

[Browntggrr]

The truthful comments about SoB makes things worse?

You really believe that?

[The Interpreter]

And it's pretty easy not to ride it at the moment....as it was all last summer, much of the summer before that, and much of many summers since and including AD 2000. There is far more to a ride and whether it is a plus or minus to the park than just whether any one person likes or doesn't like it. There's cost, safety, reliability, target audience draw, litigation/insurance expense, even whether the park's general manager finds the ride experience acceptable. Using those as criteria, there is no way anyone can make a credible case that Son of Beast has been a plus for the park. Put another way, there is absolutely no way any manager who knew then what they know now would have approved Son of Beast as an addition to any park they were responsible for.

[Pillsberry123]

i dont see why everyone is saying so many negative things about Son of Beast? if you dont like it dont ride it and comments like this make things worse!

From a financial standpoint it was a waste of money. Like the ride for what it is or not, that's what it is. Many here (who were around back then) were fans of The Bat, but it was the same type of situation. When you have to waste money to excessively modify or remove a ride, then it was a waste of money. Especially when the ride's price tag was too much in the first place, and an equally marketable ride (or 3!) could have been built at the same time. Just like I305, it may be a good ride (from what I hear), but so far they've installed and removed trims and modified the first turn.