BavarianBeatle Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 gad, thank you for your clear and well thought out post. The only thing I will add to it is that if there are few people using FL, it will have minimal impact on the stand-by line but it will also have minimal impact on the bottom line of KI and would most likely go away. If on the other hand it becomes more widely used, it will stay and grow to other parks. The downside of that is to the regular plain ole ordinary guest it will cause additional waiting. From what I have been told a group of coaster enthusiast will be in the park tomorrow and have purchased 55 Fast Lane wristbands. These are more then likely power riders that will not waste much time doing anything but riding coasters. Just think if they all decide to head to Diamondback at the same time. They will fill 1 1/2 trains then get off and go around in about the time they can load 1-2 trains of non-FL before they get back on. Repeat then rinse ad nauseum. If you see this group heading toward the ride your standing in line for, you might as well get out of line and head somewhere else. While they may not stay in a pack, I am kind of hoping that they do to show the park how poorly conceived the current version of Fast Lane is. I will say again that I am not opposed to a Fast Lane system. If they would limit it to 1 ride on each of the 10 attractions instead of unlimited usage 100% of my issues with it would go away. This would also allow the park to offer it at a lower price and even potentially offer more of them without significantly effecting the wait times of those not using Fast Lane. I agree. A pack of 55 could have BLSC completely to themselves for as long as they wanted, could limit FoF (with two trains running) to 5 people from the queue every third train, and seriously reduce access to all of the other rides on that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 If they are ACErs, I can only imagine what might happen to them next after they russ around riding all day in the Fast Lane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanna Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I'm not wanting to get into the debate here, or stir up controversy. I just want to ask a question about the Fast Lane. I'm from Niagara Falls, I've got a big coaster road trip booked in just over a week and will be at Kings Island on the 23rd. I've got a Platinum Pass so I'm not worried about shelling out the extra $50 if it's going to be busy. How does KI have the entrances set up? Do the lines merge? Is there an entrance from the exit. ...I'm already going to be getting some dirty looks from a few because I'm a single rider, how much worse is getting one of these passes? From what I've seen, darque, the new coasters like Diamondback, and Backlot Stunt Coaster, have a lane that runs along side the regular line. The Beast has the FL through the exit, I think from the way the station was built. From what I recall, there's a sign at each ride where the FastLane enters. I saw single rider FastLaners when I went, and there were no dirty looks. It might be good to know you are doing another single rider a favor, they'll ask him to come forward to fill the train. There's no merging, and the ride attendant is good at handling both lines, from my experience. Hope you have a good time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Racer is not a Fast Lane ride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanna Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Racer is not a Fast Lane ride! Agh, thanks! Fixed that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Nor is Whitewater Canyon, and yet... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan73 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I don't believe the season pass perks vs. Fast Lane argument is entirely valid. The key difference between the two is that very few of the season pass perks affect anyone beyond the passholder, whereas the folks in the Fast Lane line do affect people who choose to wait in the standby line. The only season pass perk that affects anyone beyond the passholder is early entry/ERT that the park offers. Even then, the only effect it potentially has is in the form of a wait at the beginning of the day for those first riders. At Kings Island that's not usually a big deal because the line at the end of the ERT session is usually minimal. It's a much bigger deal at Cedar Point (Millennium Force's wait at the end of ERT this past Sunday was close to an hour). The thing to remember here is the park isn't open to the general public during ERT. The park opens at the opening time and that's clearly stated on the operating schedules. A passholder (or resort guest at Cedar Point) that gets in early doesn't affect anyone in the general public. A general admission ticket gets you access to the park during normal hours. Those who are granted ERT don't change what my general admission ticket grants me. The GP shouldn't even care about ERT, more or less, because it doesn't affect them. The quantity of rides available during the normal operating hours doesn't change, nor do the way those seats are allocated change (without Fast Lane or the like) as it is first come first served. The other perks (usually discounts of some sort or free parking) clearly don't affect anyone beyond the passholder. Repeat the above for a concert or sporting event. The person sitting in the $250 seat at a Reds game doesn't affect the person sitting in the $5 seat. The $250 customer and the $5 customer are operating on completely different wavelengths as far as their experiences go. They're at the same event and yet their experiences are completely different. The person who paid $250 for a seat isn't cutting in front of someone who purchased a $5 seat in the concession line. If the $250 customer wants to eat 10 hot dogs, that doesn't affect the ability for the $5 customer to eat any hot dogs. The $5 customer doesn't care about how many drinks the $250 customer has. The bottom line is that there is a close to zero correlation between their experiences because they don't interact with one another. Fast Lane is, at its core, a way to steal a little time from everyone in a ride line and give it to Fast Lane users. The amount of time it takes me to get on to a ride is based on three things, assuming the ride is running: * what the capacity of the ride is and how many people per hour it can roll through * how good the crew is at moving people through the line * how many people are in front of you All Fast Lane is doing is changing the third variable. The wait for someone in the standby line is now potentially affected because of Fast Lane users. Any person who uses the Fast Lane pass while you're standing in line for that same ride will increase your wait time if they make it to the merge point before you do. Therefore, your wait time in the standby line is almost DIRECTLY correlated with how many people use (and how often they use) Fast Lane in front of you. We're at the same event (in this case, a ride), but the difference between this and a concert is that the person using Fast Lane directly affects my experience (in the form of a longer wait) if I'm standing in the standby line. Having said all of that I really do think that the impact on most regular guests is probably pretty minimal unless you're visiting on a busy day. I can't tell you how many times we've been to Six Flags parks and seen people using the Flash Pass even when there are station waits (i.e., past the merge point for the Flash Pass) for everything. I'm just looking forward to the next two weeks starting this Monday when lines will be manageable again. (bold added for emphasis) Would the ball park be able to offer $5 tickets if other people didn't buy the $250 ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Would the ballpark be able to sell $250 tickets if none of the cheap seats people came? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan73 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I'd imagine they'd be out of business at that point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Funny how, with all the talk of how Fast Lane could be abused, nobody has actually seen that happen yet. Also, I believe they reserve the right to limit the number of Fast Lane guests on each ride cycle, that's what I was told, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I can just imagine how well that would go over. I paid for the Fast Lane and now you tell me I have to wait for the hoi polloi to ride? What'd I pay for again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I think their out would be that it says "wait less" and "limited wait", not "don't wait at all". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 What you or the park thinks won't matter much if the guests are dissatisfied. Unhappy guests talk. Word travels. Especially these days with social media and sich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 hoi polloi...I don't like to have to look up words just to understand a post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanna Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Nor is Whitewater Canyon, and yet... Actually there was a FLier on The Racer, that's why I originally added it to the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I think they allow people with Fast Lane to ride non-FL rides if one of the FL rides is down (maybe Beast was down at the time?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BavarianBeatle Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 http://www.screamscape.com/html/industry_news.htm#CedarFair I could'nt agree more with what Lance has written here. WARNING: This link contains material that some people may consider to be crirical of Kings Island and Cedar Fair and may cause extreme distress, nevousness and trembling among ACE members, fanboys, Kool Aid drinkers, and others with a low tolerance for words that portray Kings Island and/or Cedar Fair as less than divine. These individuals should consult a physician or other medical professional prior to opening this link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Rider Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I am afraid I have to agree, Beatle. I do not much care for the idea of this Fast Lane system, and I do not care for all the other upcharges either. Not to mention that this has caused yet more seat assigners on different coasters, which is another system that needed to leave before it ever got started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Beatle...thanks for sharing. I liked a few of his lines quite a bit but this was my favorite: Every guest pays for admission in some form (day ticket or annual pass) and deserves to have the same experience, and not being able to whip out their wallet to bribe their way to the front of a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsrattler Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 So does everyone also have the same distaste for Universal Parks and Six Flags Parks? Oh yea, and Busch Gardens parks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BavarianBeatle Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 So does everyone also have the same distaste for Universal Parks and Six Flags Parks? Oh yea, and Busch Gardens parks. No. --Beatle, answering the question as asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsrattler Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Why not? They all have the same line jumping system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsrattler Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I also question the validity of the "Fast Lane" system being Kinzel's idea in Lance's post. Wasn't it Ouimet that said on his visit here that said something about it, then a few days later, it was put into practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XGatorHead 8904 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Why not? They all have the same line jumping system? The answer can be found in the wording. I'll bold the important parts: So does everyone also have the same distaste for Universal Parks and Six Flags Parks? Oh yea, and Busch Gardens parks. No. --Beatle, answering the question as asked. Beatle answered that not everyone has a problem with those parks. Some people do and some people don't, but you can't lump everyone into one of those groups. He didn't necessarily say that he personally did or did not. I also question the validity of the "Fast Lane" system being Kinzel's idea in Lance's post. Wasn't it Ouimet that said on his visit here that said something about it, then a few days later, it was put into practice? I was thinking that too. But since, according to Lance, Knott's has had a similar system in place since December, that would have been under Kinzel. It may have been Kinzel's idea to test FL at KI, or it could have been Ouimet, we don't know. But you are correct that Ouimet did say that in the interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogrmac Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Why not? They all have the same line jumping system? Why not? Several reasons, actually. First of all, "everyone" does not feel the exact same way about a particular subject. In fact, I imagine that the people making money off of the "line jumping systems" think they are just wonderful. Secondly, the park chains you listed have very different systems and policies in place for bypassing the GP in line. The most notable policy (to me, anyhow) is the fact that the systems at the other chains do not allow unlimited access to the front of a line as many times as the user chooses. I didn't read the fine print for every single park, but in general it seems as though you can use it once per attraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsrattler Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Busch Gardens has an unlimited option (I used it last month), Flash Pass Platinum at SIX is pretty much identical, and Universal's is unlimited. And I will clarify my question.. do the individuals who have a distaste for "Fast Lane" share the same distaste for the other parks I mentioned, with their unlimited options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 http://www.screamsca...s.htm#CedarFair I could'nt agree more with what Lance has written here. WARNING: This link contains material that some people may consider to be crirical of Kings Island and Cedar Fair and may cause extreme distress, nevousness and trembling among ACE members, fanboys, Kool Aid drinkers, and others with a low tolerance for words that portray Kings Island and/or Cedar Fair as less than divine. These individuals should consult a physician or other medical professional prior to opening this link. I am not sure I believe the part about where this was all Kinzel's idea. It seems only a week or so after Mr. Ouimet came by KI as the new President, Fast Lane made it's debut. I do feel that Fast Lane is here to stay. No matter if you like it or not, FL is another revenue source for KI. The question for me is if they will be investing into a more electronic system as we have discussed, or leave it as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XGatorHead 8904 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Busch Gardens has an unlimited option (I used it last month), Flash Pass Platinum at SIX is pretty much identical, and Universal's is unlimited. Universal's is not unlimited: http://www.universal...D=13-1152&seq=1 NOTE: Valid for one (1) entry per participating attraction. Not valid for theme park admission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogrmac Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 SIX's Platinum says you can wait once and ride twice, but it was unclear to me if you could do this multiple times or only once per included attraction. After some more reading, I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 And I will clarify my question.. do the individuals who have a distaste for "Fast Lane" share the same distaste for the other parks I mentioned, with their unlimited options? I can only answer for myself...and my answer would be that if the systems at those parks are the same as Fast Lane, yes I have a distaste for them. 2 (or more) wrongs do not make a right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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