Disney cracks down on FastPass enforcement

[MarketingExpress]

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2012/03/08/disney-cracks-down-on-fastpass-enforcement/?intcmp=features

[Browntggrr]

Translated: Fanboy loophole now closed. FastPass now sponsored by Kleenex.

Honestly- good for Disney. It is too bad they have to "enforce" something that should be a no-brainer for all guests.

[CedarPointer]

I can see why they're doing it, but I think it's a bad idea since the original intent of allowing them to be used late was so that you didn't have to worry if you got stuck on a ride, got stuck in a big line waiting for food, etc.

[westcoaster]

Then don't use fast pass, this is kudos finally someone at disney laying daown the law for people that was in my opinion abusing the system.

Great job Disney, Disney land will be better!

For this:

[KIfan1980]

When the policy is not to enforce the return time, why is it abusing the system if you use it post the return time? I did so and have no problem having done so - I also have no problem with them changing the policy, that is their choice.

[Vortex]

Wish Kings Island would do something like this but right now I don't think it happen.

[RD Reynolds]

I can see why they're doing it, but I think it's a bad idea since the original intent of allowing them to be used late was so that you didn't have to worry if you got stuck on a ride, got stuck in a big line waiting for food, etc.

Exactly. I am actually pretty bummed about it, because we used to stock pile FPs early in the day, then leisurely go through the park and shop or go back to the hotel and swim. Or eat at a park's table service restaurant. At night, we could again leisurely go to the rides we had passes for, which made for an enjoyable day. I never once saw the FP lines take more than 5-10 minutes, so I guess I am kinda not seeing the point of this, especially if most guests didn't "abuse" the system like we did as Disney claims.

Ah well, whatever. I'm sure that what they have planned with X-Pass will change all this anyway.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

As a custodial cast member in Magic Kingdom I can vouch that Fast pass lines can and do reach longer lines than standby times.

[westcoaster]

Roger Rabbit alone was packed with Fast Pass guests slowing down riders for the standby lines, that was just one ride at Disneyland.

Kudos finally upholding the rules to make everyones, not just one group special day memorable, enjoyable, and everlasting.

[bkroz]

I can see why they're doing it, but I think it's a bad idea since the original intent of allowing them to be used late was so that you didn't have to worry if you got stuck on a ride, got stuck in a big line waiting for food, etc.

Even if that was the intent, that's not how it was used. And of course, issues like that will still be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. It's just people having a FASTPASS for 1:00 - 2:00 in the afternoon coming back at 8:00.

Don't misunderstand and think that this "privilege" to return anytime after the start time was widely used. It wasn't! Most families would notice their window had arrived, more or less drop what they were doing, and return to the attraction in time. Like tggrr said, the idea of returning anytime you want is mostly a "fanboy" thing, and I'll admit that I was basically taught to use the system that way.

All of my experiences with Disneyland were with a friend's family, with my friend's father being particularly adept at Disney vacations and as much of a Disney fan as anyone I've seen online. It was fairly routine with him to to something of the following:

8:00 - Park opens. Run to Space Mountain and get a FASTPASS with a return time of 8:30. Then immediately run to Star Tours and ride it.

8:30 - Get off Star Tours, ride Space Mountain with a very short wait (since it's only 8:30 AM), then pass by Star Tours and grab a FASTPASS to come back to Star Tours at 9:15.

8:45 - Ride Indiana Jones Adventure.

9:15 - Get off Indiana Jones Adventure, then get a FASTPASS to ride it later. Then ride Big Thunder Mountain with the minimal wait of 9:15 in the morning, linger in the area for breakfast, then get a FASTPASS for Big Thunder as soon as possible...

So with only an hour and a half in the park, we'd have ridden the four big attractions AND have a FASTPASS to come back to all four of them later in the later. Obviously we'd save that for evening rides, despite their return times being before noon. It was a great way to get the short line privileges that accompany the park's first hour open, and also to secure an easy-going afternoon. It wasn't unusual to have four or five FASTPASS tickets in my pocket, having to search through them when we decided to return to a ride.

I never saw it as cheating or anything, though it does bog down the line. In a system as complex as FASTPASS, the computer literally counts each and every distributed ticket and weighs that distribution against the "stand-by" line to ensure that both lines move quickly. It uses each ride's throughput to determine how many FASTPASS tickets it can give out for each hour long window before moving on to the next window, so returning late does bog the whole system down. It's good that it's being enforced, I think, and on my next trip to Disneyland, I'll be more conscientious about misusing it (though the return times are still not enforced at Disneyland Resort).

[bkroz]

When the policy is not to enforce the return time, why is it abusing the system if you use it post the return time? I did so and have no problem having done so - I also have no problem with them changing the policy, that is their choice.

I want to agree with this, but it's hard. When a policy is not enforced and no consequences are present, it can still be abusing the system. Think of smoking outside of smoking areas at Kings Island. We've seen all manner of "higher-ups" in the park walk right past it, afraid to say a word. It's not enforced and the smoker doesn't face a single consequence. It's still abusing a system and reducing other's enjoyment. In that same way, Disney's de facto policy has been to not enforce FASTPASS return times, and no consequences are levied against those who return late. But it does, without a doubt, disrupt the system and increase the wait time for guests that are in the stand-by line. In that way, it is truly no different than line-jumping, just more easily masked.

All in all, though, I agree with your post. It's hard to see it as "criminal" or "abusive" or "unfair" when there was no enforcement. And now that the policy changed at Disney World, I will happily follow it when I'm there.

[Guest TombraiderTy]

As other users have already stated, this policy change will not affect the majority of Disney visitors. Most guests assume that the Fast Pass return times are strictly enforced already, and returning to the attraction late is unacceptable. It's only the bigger fans who are more knowledgeable on the park that realize there's a loophole. They will now be unable to build a collection of Fast Passes throughout the day, saving them for the busier evening:

Although I was (obviously) one of the ones who took advantage of the loophole, I still believe this is a positive change. It'll allow for Disney's Fast Pass equations (which goodyellowkorn182 pointed out) to give better estimated wait times and allow the majority of guests to enjoy more attractions.

[CedarPointer]

I think an hour or so grace period after the time printed would be fair, I can understand why they wouldn't want a 10:00 AM ticket to be used at 9:00 PM, but I think it's going to cause problems for them when they don't let someone use a 10:00 AM ticket at 10:05. However, if this also means they'll stop giving out too many fastpasses for certain attractions (Peter Pan's Flight, for one), I'm all for it.

[bkroz]

There is a new grace period, according to most sources.

Word is that, at least during this initial implementation, you can join the Fastpass queue up to five minutes early (whereas before, you couldn't enter the line until the exact minute your window arrived) and up to 15 minutes late. That gives an hour and twenty minute window altogether.

[Avatar]

The old way was greatly known to Disney and cast members who have worked there encouraged it as members here. It was always told to me the hour time was a suggestive time to encourage the majority of guest to use that time but that was a suggestive time because they knew guests had dinner reservations parades to attend and kids needed naps. Through my years at Disney it was encouraged and explained to do it by the cast members in the park and at dinning locations.

So why stop this now is the question and I certainly would have issues as it being described as a crack down but more of we are switching the way we are going to do this (Fast Pass) in the future so lets start to get guest used to a specific time.

Disney has spent and patented a newer style a Fast Pass system one in which can be done from the guest resort rooms and may include several passes issued on their RIF (i think that's the name) or key cards. There it is no secret and Disney has already tested a new system out for the Dumbo ride which is kind of like a color code system. This allows parents to play games and take advantage of the area instead of having thee kids standing in line. On thing they tried before was to have one parent wait while the other goes off with the kids. Fast forward to present. Dumbo the ride is scheduled to open later this month and I believe a new system will be in place for that ride. So again I believe the change not to be confused by crack down is due to Disney implementing newer fast pass systems into the parks and they want the public to be more used to the new style. Just my opinion though.

[The Interpreter]

It would also make premium paid Fast Passes a perceived higher value.

Terp, just notin'

[bkroz]

The old way was greatly known to Disney and cast members who have worked there encouraged it as members here. It was always told to me the hour time was a suggestive time to encourage the majority of guest to use that time but that was a suggestive time because they knew guests had dinner reservations parades to attend and kids needed naps. Through my years at Disney it was encouraged and explained to do it by the cast members in the park and at dinning locations.

So why stop this now is the question and I certainly would have issues as it being described as a crack down but more of we are switching the way we are going to do this (Fast Pass) in the future so lets start to get guest used to a specific time.

Disney has spent and patented a newer style a Fast Pass system one in which can be done from the guest resort rooms and may include several passes issued on their RIF (i think that's the name) or key cards. There it is no secret and Disney has already tested a new system out for the Dumbo ride which is kind of like a color code system. This allows parents to play games and take advantage of the area instead of having thee kids standing in line. On thing they tried before was to have one parent wait while the other goes off with the kids. Fast forward to present. Dumbo the ride is scheduled to open later this month and I believe a new system will be in place for that ride. So again I believe the change not to be confused by crack down is due to Disney implementing newer fast pass systems into the parks and they want the public to be more used to the new style. Just my opinion though.

You're talking about two different things. Dumbo has what's been called a "next-gen queue." It's the same line as always, just with added interactive elements, games, props, etc. to keep people engaged and make it feel less like they're waiting in a line. Disney World's Haunted Mansion famously got one last year, with interactive tomb stones and props. Space Mountain and The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh at the Magic Kingdom and Soarin' at Epcot recently got re-done queues with interactive props, and now Tower of Terror at Disney's Hollywood Studios is joining, too. Those interactive queues are sometimes called "scene 0" because they come before the ride, but do add an element of storytelling and immersion that waiting in a boring old line doesn't.

The premier FASTPASS thing that the Interpreter is mentioning and that you mentioned as being done from hotel rooms is separate (and by the way, rumors from well-versed Disney industry fans increasingly suggest that it will not be an up-charge. The current name of X-PASS probably won't last either, if you ask me). Rumor has it that with that system, all four of the Florida parks would double the amount of attractions in the FASTPASS network (for example, making the entire "Seas With Nemo and Friends" pavilion at Epcot its own FASTPASS attraction) so that guests can book those experiences ahead of time (but, no more than four "experiences" per park per day). At the mega-popular and highly-regimented Disney World resort, people could book a few key experiences (for example, two rides, a show, and a reserved fireworks seating area) before they even arrive, then have at most four X-PASS attractions without having to get a ticket and wait for the return time - they'll have selected the return time beforehand.

The idea is that 100 people pre-book X-PASS admission to Big Thunder Mountain for the 10:00 to 11:00 window, so 100 less regular FASTPASS tickets are offered for that window, thus keeping the queue exactly as balanced as it was before. Part of ensuring that balance is to finally insist that people adhere to the window provided. What's the point of giving out 100 less FASTPASS tickets for that hour long window if people will return four hours after their window closes, anyway? So yeah, this probably has something to do with the new X-PASS. But it is rumored to be rolled out over the coming years in small increments, not when Dumbo opens this month.

[The Interpreter]

Free with purchase is still an upcharge. If you must stay on property to reserve, this is its own form of upcharge. Sometimes you must pay more if you want to have fun in the Fast Lane.

[bkroz]

True, but early talk suggested that this system would need purchased; that you'd have to stay in a Disney hotel and pay big bucks for the personalization of an X-PASS vacation. At least for now, the tables seem to have turned on that. In that sense, it won't be the up-charge that was first suggested. And boy, was there an uprising when it was suggested! Not far from what was offered here:

"People who can afford Disney hotels are probably staying in the resort longer, anyway, so why should they get priority access? Their time isn't near as "valuable," and their vacations are much longer."

And that's in a resort where the virtual queueing is already free to everyone...

By the way, I'm hearing from multiple sources that Disney's [ill-conceived?] Avatar land at Disney's Animal Kingdom is dead in the water... While I'm surprised, I'm not upset in the slightest.

[Avatar]

^^^No I was right on in generalization of new systems going in. I did not want to bore everyone with details but rather the point that the new systems are going in so lets get the guest used to specific times to go to the attractions.

If they wanted to people to do that in the past they would have not promoted so much and scheduled around it. A couple years ago they cracked down on people getting fast passes one day and selling them on e-bay or bring them back on the next visit to be used. They put out a statement that was not going to happen but purposefully never mentioned the popular return when you want after the first printed time on the ticket. Disney wanted their guest happy and encouraged guest to do it. No not on the web sites but through their, bus drivers, resort stay staff, park employes, dinning restaurants and fan sites.

Again I was generalizing to make the point this is not a Crack Down but more lets get guest used to new systems and first up is getting them used to specific times. That Is all nothing more.

Please don't use that reference about guest who can afford to stay on site as I have proven over and over that we can stay cheaper on site than to stay off site to include staying for free at my brothers house. Disney goes out of their way to give entice all guest an opportunity to stay on site versus stay off site. Disney makes more if you spend you dollars on site versus letting you go down the street.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Avatar
to add to my comments.

[RD Reynolds]

I've stayed both on and off site, and been to WDW at least twice a year for the past seven years. I've also stayed at resorts ranging from All-Star Movies to Pop Century to (I think) all the moderates to the Swan to the Beach Club. I've also stayed off site at hotels and rental properties. I say that not to brag, but to give a feel for what I am about to say.

You can definitely stay cheaper off site...it depends on how you calculate such things. The biggest savings has nothing to do with the hotels, it has to do with your meals. For instance, we stayed at a town house a couple trips ago. We had a kitchen, so we hit Wal-Mart and had some frozen pizzas and 2-liters of soda. We also had all our breakfast meals at the house. That's a zillion times cheaper than meals at the parks or the resorts. Sure, you can get the dining plans (we've done that too), but it's not as inexpensive as getting your own meals at fast food places or stocking up in a kitchen.

Now parking is a big variable too. As we go so frequently, we've often had annual passes. Annual passes = free parking. That helps too, obviously.

So it's not really fair to say it's ALWAYS cheaper to stay on site or off. You can do it "cheaply" either way, you just have to think a bit about what it is you want out of your visit to WDW.

[RD Reynolds]

I should also note I am fine with Disney changing their enforcement of FP. It's just a change, and they're not going to do something that causes folks en masse to turn against them. They take customer service to a level I've pretty much never seen in any business, theme parks or otherwise. Others may have had issues at WDW, but I like to go there because my experience is that my family & I are always be taken care of in a courtesy, pleasant manner.

[bkroz]

"People who can afford Disney hotels are probably staying in the resort longer, anyway, so why should they get priority access? Their time isn't near as "valuable," and their vacations are much longer."

Please don't use that reference about guest who can afford to stay on site as I have proven over and over that we can stay cheaper on site than to stay off site to include staying for free at my brothers house. Disney goes out of their way to give entice all guest an opportunity to stay on site versus stay off site. Disney makes more if you spend you dollars on site versus letting you go down the street.

See the quotes and italics. I was pointing out the generalized view of many posters on the Disney message boards. Many of those posters are repeating the arguments people made here concerning Fast Lane. They see class warfare and unequal perceived value in reference to this new X-Pass.